Not By Works

[LoveGodForever]

Why do you always say God's Word? Are you speaking about Christ Jesus?

Absolutely! (see John 1:1-5) Jesus is the Word of God and we are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4)

God bless

 

[Grace777x70]

It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.

Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".

Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.

Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )

God in the Old Testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Himself is the "now" word.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.

They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.

These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.

They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.

This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".

 

[royalscot]

? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.

what law ,do your repent from.

do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.

if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.

 

[FranC]

I am saying we are saved by the right belief in Jesus and HIS WORK.

We have a different view then. Since I knew and loved Jesus from the time I was young, but it was my right belief in HIS Finished Work that put me in the right standing with God.

It is not doctrine, it is belief and faith (which is belief in action) and the object of our faith is Jesus and this cannot be separated from HIS WORK here on earth.

I don't think it's a different view.
I think you're maybe saying it in a different way.

Right belief means you believe that Jesus is God, That He died, resurrected and that you're trusting in HIM to save you.
If you believe this, you're saved.

If I say that our DOCTRINE does not save us and you DO NOT agree with me, that means that you believe doctrine DOES SAVE YOU.

Your belief in Jesus saves you.
NOT ANY DOCTRINE.

That's what I'm saying.
Maybe you believe in OSAS.
Maybe I don't.
We could discuss it.
Post scripture --- whatever.
But we're both saved because JESUS saves us not the doctrine we believe in.

I can't explain it better than this.

When I came here I was told I was lost because I believe in works and good deeds.
THIS IS WRONG.
You could not agree with me -- that works are necessary, I mean.
BUT, you cannot say that because of that I'm not saved.

It's the same Jesus we both believe in.

 

[royalscot]

I kind of have this idea that when we come to gates of heaven...they will open...but we will be on knees right away. Without a word in our mouth...other than praise.

only guilty, people fall ,on there knees,

they have never understood, the love, that come from god, or understood, what jesus has already done for them,
if you, were made a child of god, when dose a child fall ,on there knees, when meeting there father.

ware did you get gates from. etc

 

[stonesoffire]

what law ,do your repent from.

do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.

if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.

I didn't say what you think I said.

 

[stonesoffire]

only guilty, people fall ,on there knees,

they have never understood, the love, that come from god, or understood, what jesus has already done for them,
if you, were made a child of god, when dose a child fall ,on there knees, when meeting there father.

ware did you get gates from. etc

Was just answering hypothetically in the same manner as the post I am giving a response to.

 

[stonesoffire]

only guilty, people fall ,on there knees,

they have never understood, the love, that come from god, or understood, what jesus has already done for them,
if you, were made a child of god, when dose a child fall ,on there knees, when meeting there father.

ware did you get gates from. etc

I would probably run if I were guilty. Fall on my knees in worship. Are you ok tonight?

 

[stonesoffire]

It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.

Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".

Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.

Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )

God in the Old Testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Himself is the "now" word.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.

They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.

These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.

They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.

This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".

Great explanation Grace777...

 

[royalscot]

Notice that Jesus said to these people that were supposedly "doing good works". - He never knew them. Jesus knows His sheep.

Works do not save a person nor do they "keep one saved". Jesus Himself is the Savior. We do not save ourselves.

Believers "do the will of the Father" by believing in Christ's work of grace through faith alone - not by what they do or don't do.

Matthew 7:21-23 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' will enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father who is in heaven will enter.

[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Many will say to Me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in Your name, and in Your name cast out demons, and in Your name perform many miracles?'

[SUP]23 [/SUP] "And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; DEPART FROM ME, YOU WHO PRACTICE LAWLESSNESS.'

Lawlessness is seeking to replace God and His activity in Christ with our own activity - no matter how good it appears to be on the outside and "works" are included in this truth.

When we start to live conscious of the Lord as our righteousness, we will begin to manifest outwardly His life of righteousness that is already in us.

From the inside out, genuine good works, obedience, holiness and love will flow unabated out of an authentic relationship with our loving heavenly Father. His life will manifest to a hurt and dying world that needs to see the love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for them.

We are "living epistles" read by all men.

There is a prescribed order of victory in the New Covenant. Until the believer sees his death on the cross with Jesus, he cannot experience Christ as his life as a new man in Christ. - the new creation.

when are you doing good work, if you ignore others.
quoting scripture is one thing, but if that scripture ,hold you in contempt, then how ,do you regain freedom.

 

[stonesoffire]

How do you know if someone is born again and someone is not?

1Jo 3:3, And every man that hath this hope in him purifies himself, even as he is pure.
1Jo 3:4, Whosoever commits sin transgresses also the law: for sin is the transgression of the law.
1Jo 3:5, And ye know that he was manifested to take away our sins; and in him is no sin.
1Jo 3:6, Whosoever abides in him sins not: whosoever sins hath not seen him, neither known him.
1Jo 3:7, Little children, let no man deceive you: he that does righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous.

1Jo 3:8, He that commits sin is of the devil; for the devil sins from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.

1Jo 3:9, Whosoever is born of God doth not commit sin; for his seed remaineth in him: and he cannot sin, because he is born of God.

1Jo 3:10, In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loves not his brother.

Friends yes some may think I am the bad guy here but I am not. I am here because Jesus loves each one of us and wants all of us to be saved to be with him in His Kingdom. Sin is the transgression of God's Law (10 commandments) and the 7th Day Sabbath is one of them (Ex 20:8-11). To say it is not is not to believe the Word of God. Unbelievers have no part in God's kingdom. Study God's Word for yourself and ask Jesus. Seek ye the LORD while he may be found, call ye upon him while he is near: Let the wicked forsake his way, and the unrighteous man his thoughts: and let him return unto the LORD, and he will have mercy upon him; and to our God, for he will abundantly pardon. Love is the fulfilling of God's Law by those who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit. If the Son shall make you free, you shall be free indeed. Jesus says if you love me keep my commandments. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith which is by the operation of God in us who walk not after the flesh but after the Spirit.

Seems to me there is a scripture that says now we know not one another by the flesh but by the Spirit. I know when I come close to someone even in a crowd, if they are His, I just know. Can't explain it though. Are you aware of this scripture LGF? I don't recall where it is.

 

[royalscot]

Gandhi said nice things about Jesus....Muslims say nice things about Jesus...but they don't believe in the Gospel...so I don't see how that can be the test of if someone is saved or not.
.I prefer God's way: if the person is born again with the Holy spirit.

.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3

 

[royalscot]

It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.

Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."

The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.

When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."

Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.

The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".

Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.

Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )

God in the Old Testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.

Jesus Himself is the "now" word.

Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,

[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.

I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.

They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.

These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.

They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.

2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.

The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18

This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.

This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".

new means new. old means old.

understanding these words, could help you, understand something.

a history account to change, not a history account ,to continuing or bridging the gap, of old to new.

21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose Galatians 2 etc


when ,could the old testament, believer say this.

 

[FranC]

Jesus protects us from God or protects us as God? How and why would we need protestion from God ?

Easy.

Why do we need protection from God?
Why do we need to be saved?

Because we're born sinners and are lost.
We have to believe in God in order to be saved.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31

But even after we're saved we still sin.
Does God like sin? No.
What does God see when He looks at us?
He sees a sinning human being.

But after salvation, when God looks at us, He sees His Son.
Jesus is our covering.
Galatians 3:27
Romans 13:14

Jesus is appointed the judge of all.
Acts 10:42

When we go before Jesus, He will judge us as if He were judging Himself.
HE is our safety, our covering, our advocate.
John 3:18
"Those who do not believe in Him have already been judged...He who believes in Him is not judged."
NASB

So, yes, if we need salvation it means we need protection.
From satan.
And from the wrath of God.
John 3:36

 

[royalscot]

I would probably run if I were guilty. Fall on my knees in worship. Are you ok tonight?

strange twist, to words.
you should already, know him, here on earth.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10

Originally Posted by stonesoffire
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.



what law ,do your repent from.

do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.

if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.

(do you want to answer this post.)

 

[LoveGodForever]

This too is a commandment from the Lord. Why don't we do that today for those that do things against the Sabbath day as outlined in the law of Moses? Don't we believe the word of God? Don't we love Jesus? Shouldn't we believe the word of Gog over man's traditions? Numbers 15:32-36 (KJV) [SUP]32 [/SUP] And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day. [SUP]33 [/SUP] And they that found him gathering sticks brought him unto Moses and Aaron, and unto all the congregation. [SUP]34 [/SUP] And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him. [SUP]35 [/SUP] And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp. [SUP]36 [/SUP] And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses. If we love God - then we should be stoning all those people that are not keeping the Sabbath - just like God commanded in the Old Covenant. Of course this is all foolishness as we are not in the Old Covenant anymore - we are in the New Covenant.

.

Dear Grace777,

There is a difference between God’s Law and the laws of Moses. God’s Law is forever (Ecc 3:14) and is the very foundation of both the Old Covenant (Ex 20:1-17) and the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17) and God's Judgement to come (Rom 1:31; Rom 2:2-5; Heb 9:27). The laws of Moses were those that pointed to Jesus and where to pass away.

In the Old Covenant according to the civil laws of Moses people were indeed stoned for openly breaking the Sabbath is correct. Did you know that the same punishment applied for breaking other laws of God (10 commandments) during this time?

This was part of the civil laws of Moses and similar punishments where also given to other commandments of God that were openly broken. For example; Not honouring your mother and farther (Lev 20:9), Blaspheming God (Lev 24:10-17), Idolatry ((Deut 27:15; Deut 7:25-26), serving other God (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19), coveting and adultery (2Pet 2:14; John 8:5)), most evil towards your neighbour ((Deut 27:15-26) and yes as the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of God’s 10 commandments it was also included and if it was openly broken just like adultery (John 8:5) people were put to death. Breaking God’s Law (10 commandments) is sin (1John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).

Nothing has changed and this is also recorded in the New Testament scriptures as well, although we are no longer under the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical, Levitical, Sanctuary laws of Moses.If someone was caught openly breaking any of God’s commandments there was a death penalty. That is how serious it was regarded under the civil laws of Israel to openly transgress God's commandments. These civil laws ceased to be in effect once Israel was occupied by the Roman empire as they were then for the most part under Roman civil laws.

Do you believe with your argument above that we can also break God's other commandments as well?

Hope this helps

In Christ

 

[UnderGrace]

How does one live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God?

Absolutely! (see John 1:1-5) Jesus is the Word of God and we are to live by every Word that proceeds out of the mouth of God (Matt 4:4)

God bless

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

No need to be sorry.

If we truly believe and have placed our faith in Jesus we will want to be like him.
We all want to be like him and have all sin in us eradicated.
Trust me I have prayed many many a time I have prayed "Take my sin away, heal my hurts, deal with my pain make me more like Jesus" at times I have been on my knees in tears begging God.

I remember one day God saying to me "If I just took all your sin away, healed you of your struggles straight away, took away your pains and hurts how could I use you to help others with the love and compassion I have for you that I want you to help others in"

The amazing thing is that actually God knows what he is doing.

The stuff I have struggled with for years that he has dealt with he has used me to help others struggling with the same thing.

If God just clicked his fingers and all is well with us what use we be to others?

The Holy Spirit is working in us to conform us to the image of Jesus.

Jesus reached out to the broken hearted, the marginalised, those who needed help, those who needed God.

David was considered a man after Gods heart and yet he got it so wrong at times.
But God loved him despite his failings.

For you and Jaume, this is a hunger for righteousness in your inner man. peter says, after you have suffered for a little while He will confirm, strengthen and establish you. Very good news

 

[LoveGodForever]

How does one live by every Word that proceeds from the mouth of God?

By humbling ourselves, learning of Jesus and by faith or believing in His Word and taking up our cross daily and following Him.

 

[stonesoffire]

strange twist, to words.
you should already, know him, here on earth.

27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10

Originally Posted by stonesoffire
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.





what law ,do your repent from.

do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.

if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.

(do you want to answer this post.)

None of what you think I am saying is about what we were discussing. We were discussing the parable of the seed and the sower. Not law.