Not By Works
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It is important to listen to the "now" word of God. We can take an Old Covenant scripture and try to "apply it" in the New Covenant and as Jesus said we end up ruining both. He gave us the example of new wine in old wine skins.
Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.
When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."
Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.
The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".
Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.
Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )
God in the Old Testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus Himself is the "now" word.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.
They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.
These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.
They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.
This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".
Take the popular scripture in Matt. 4:4 "Man shall live by every word that proceeds out of the mouth of God."
The Greek word here for "word" is rhema - which is the spoken revealed word of God to us at the time.
When Jesus used this "rhema word" in Matt. 4:4 - He spoke it to the devil who said to Him - "If you are the Son of God...."
Notice that the devil left out what the Father had said to Jesus after He came out of the water. "This is My beloved Son." The enemy doesn't want us to be established in God's love for us.
The "now" word for Jesus was "This is My beloved Son in whom I am well-pleased".
Jesus lived from that word from the Father and didn't need to "prove" it to the devil.
Jesus' life came from what the Father said and believed about Him ( So, we too live by this very same principle )
God in the Old Testament spoke to us in many ways but has "now" in these last days spoken to us through His Son - the Lord Jesus Christ.
Jesus Himself is the "now" word.
Hebrews 1:1-2 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways,
[SUP]2[/SUP] in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world.
I can guarantee that Isaac was happy that his dad - Abraham listened to the "now" word of God when he was laying on that altar. Some people would have killed Isaac because God said to do it.
They would say things like "God is the same today, yesterday and forever". We must "do" every word that proceeds from God and thus totally miss the "now" word of God.
These are those that try to live by the Old Covenant and the 10 commandments which are a goner and yet totally miss the "now" word of God as revealed in the finished work of Christ.
They are still trying to "do the word of God" from the Old Testament when now we live by the life of Christ in the New Covenant.
2 Corinthians 5:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come.
The life of the new creation in Christ "now" is to "behold" what these new things are and when we behold Christ Himself - we will see Him for who He actually is and we are transformed by the Holy Spirit. 2 Cor. 3:17-18
This is one of the dynamics of the ways of God for transformation while we are in these flesh bodies.
This is why the things of the Old Testament are mere shadows of the reality which is Christ Himself. All scripture speaks of Him and His work on the cross and resurrection and of the true love and grace our loving Father and Lord have for us "now".
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I don't think it's a different view.
I think you're maybe saying it in a different way.
Right belief means you believe that Jesus is God, That He died, resurrected and that you're trusting in HIM to save you.
If you believe this, you're saved.
If I say that our DOCTRINE does not save us and you DO NOT agree with me, that means that you believe doctrine DOES SAVE YOU.
Your belief in Jesus saves you.
NOT ANY DOCTRINE.
That's what I'm saying.
Maybe you believe in OSAS.
Maybe I don't.
We could discuss it.
Post scripture --- whatever.
But we're both saved because JESUS saves us not the doctrine we believe in.
I can't explain it better than this.
When I came here I was told I was lost because I believe in works and good deeds.
THIS IS WRONG.
You could not agree with me -- that works are necessary, I mean.
BUT, you cannot say that because of that I'm not saved.
It's the same Jesus we both believe in.
I think you're maybe saying it in a different way.
Right belief means you believe that Jesus is God, That He died, resurrected and that you're trusting in HIM to save you.
If you believe this, you're saved.
If I say that our DOCTRINE does not save us and you DO NOT agree with me, that means that you believe doctrine DOES SAVE YOU.
Your belief in Jesus saves you.
NOT ANY DOCTRINE.
That's what I'm saying.
Maybe you believe in OSAS.
Maybe I don't.
We could discuss it.
Post scripture --- whatever.
But we're both saved because JESUS saves us not the doctrine we believe in.
I can't explain it better than this.
When I came here I was told I was lost because I believe in works and good deeds.
THIS IS WRONG.
You could not agree with me -- that works are necessary, I mean.
BUT, you cannot say that because of that I'm not saved.
It's the same Jesus we both believe in.
new means new. old means old.
understanding these words, could help you, understand something.
a history account to change, not a history account ,to continuing or bridging the gap, of old to new.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose Galatians 2 etc
when ,could the old testament, believer say this.
understanding these words, could help you, understand something.
a history account to change, not a history account ,to continuing or bridging the gap, of old to new.
21 I do not nullify the grace of God, for if righteousness were through the law, then Christ died for no purpose Galatians 2 etc
when ,could the old testament, believer say this.
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Easy.
Why do we need protection from God?
Why do we need to be saved?
Because we're born sinners and are lost.
We have to believe in God in order to be saved.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
But even after we're saved we still sin.
Does God like sin? No.
What does God see when He looks at us?
He sees a sinning human being.
But after salvation, when God looks at us, He sees His Son.
Jesus is our covering.
Galatians 3:27
Romans 13:14
Jesus is appointed the judge of all.
Acts 10:42
When we go before Jesus, He will judge us as if He were judging Himself.
HE is our safety, our covering, our advocate.
John 3:18
"Those who do not believe in Him have already been judged...He who believes in Him is not judged."
NASB
So, yes, if we need salvation it means we need protection.
From satan.
And from the wrath of God.
John 3:36
Why do we need protection from God?
Why do we need to be saved?
Because we're born sinners and are lost.
We have to believe in God in order to be saved.
John 3:16
Acts 16:31
But even after we're saved we still sin.
Does God like sin? No.
What does God see when He looks at us?
He sees a sinning human being.
But after salvation, when God looks at us, He sees His Son.
Jesus is our covering.
Galatians 3:27
Romans 13:14
Jesus is appointed the judge of all.
Acts 10:42
When we go before Jesus, He will judge us as if He were judging Himself.
HE is our safety, our covering, our advocate.
John 3:18
"Those who do not believe in Him have already been judged...He who believes in Him is not judged."
NASB
So, yes, if we need salvation it means we need protection.
From satan.
And from the wrath of God.
John 3:36
strange twist, to words.
you should already, know him, here on earth.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10
Originally Posted by stonesoffire
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
what law ,do your repent from.
do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.
if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.
(do you want to answer this post.)
you should already, know him, here on earth.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
what law ,do your repent from.
do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.
if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.
(do you want to answer this post.)
Last edited:
.
Dear Grace777,
There is a difference between God’s Law and the laws of Moses. God’s Law is forever (Ecc 3:14) and is the very foundation of both the Old Covenant (Ex 20:1-17) and the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17) and God's Judgement to come (Rom 1:31; Rom 2:2-5; Heb 9:27). The laws of Moses were those that pointed to Jesus and where to pass away.
In the Old Covenant according to the civil laws of Moses people were indeed stoned for openly breaking the Sabbath is correct. Did you know that the same punishment applied for breaking other laws of God (10 commandments) during this time?
This was part of the civil laws of Moses and similar punishments where also given to other commandments of God that were openly broken. For example; Not honouring your mother and farther (Lev 20:9), Blaspheming God (Lev 24:10-17), Idolatry ((Deut 27:15; Deut 7:25-26), serving other God (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19), coveting and adultery (2Pet 2:14; John 8:5)), most evil towards your neighbour ((Deut 27:15-26) and yes as the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of God’s 10 commandments it was also included and if it was openly broken just like adultery (John 8:5) people were put to death. Breaking God’s Law (10 commandments) is sin (1John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).
Nothing has changed and this is also recorded in the New Testament scriptures as well, although we are no longer under the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical, Levitical, Sanctuary laws of Moses.If someone was caught openly breaking any of God’s commandments there was a death penalty. That is how serious it was regarded under the civil laws of Israel to openly transgress God's commandments. These civil laws ceased to be in effect once Israel was occupied by the Roman empire as they were then for the most part under Roman civil laws.
Do you believe with your argument above that we can also break God's other commandments as well?
Hope this helps
In Christ
Dear Grace777,
There is a difference between God’s Law and the laws of Moses. God’s Law is forever (Ecc 3:14) and is the very foundation of both the Old Covenant (Ex 20:1-17) and the New Covenant (Jer 31:31-34; Eze 36:26-27; Heb 8:10-12; 10:16-17) and God's Judgement to come (Rom 1:31; Rom 2:2-5; Heb 9:27). The laws of Moses were those that pointed to Jesus and where to pass away.
In the Old Covenant according to the civil laws of Moses people were indeed stoned for openly breaking the Sabbath is correct. Did you know that the same punishment applied for breaking other laws of God (10 commandments) during this time?
This was part of the civil laws of Moses and similar punishments where also given to other commandments of God that were openly broken. For example; Not honouring your mother and farther (Lev 20:9), Blaspheming God (Lev 24:10-17), Idolatry ((Deut 27:15; Deut 7:25-26), serving other God (Deut 13:6-18; 1Sam 26:19), coveting and adultery (2Pet 2:14; John 8:5)), most evil towards your neighbour ((Deut 27:15-26) and yes as the 7[SUP]th[/SUP] Day Sabbath is one of God’s 10 commandments it was also included and if it was openly broken just like adultery (John 8:5) people were put to death. Breaking God’s Law (10 commandments) is sin (1John 3:4) and the wages of sin is death (Rom 6:23).
Nothing has changed and this is also recorded in the New Testament scriptures as well, although we are no longer under the civil, ceremonial, ecclesiastical, Levitical, Sanctuary laws of Moses.If someone was caught openly breaking any of God’s commandments there was a death penalty. That is how serious it was regarded under the civil laws of Israel to openly transgress God's commandments. These civil laws ceased to be in effect once Israel was occupied by the Roman empire as they were then for the most part under Roman civil laws.
Do you believe with your argument above that we can also break God's other commandments as well?
Hope this helps
In Christ
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strange twist, to words.
you should already, know him, here on earth.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10
Originally Posted by stonesoffire
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
what law ,do your repent from.
do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.
if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.
(do you want to answer this post.)
you should already, know him, here on earth.
27 My sheep hear my voice, and I know them, and they follow me.28 I give them eternal life, and they will never perish, and no one will snatch them out of my hand.John 10
? No, I believe as the Lord draws us we change to a point of repentance and turning to God. All the way into the light.
what law ,do your repent from.
do you have, scripture to back, up this claim.
if grace is a gift, when was it maintained, by repentance.
(do you want to answer this post.)