Not By Works

[Jackson123]

Peter denied Jesus before conversion and then receiving Holy Spirit. Afterwards? He and the others turned the world upside down with the gospel. Remember reading this?

Peter Said not Deny, than deny, than back, before penthecost.

ofcource Will be stranger after the help of Holy spirit come AS long AS he stay abide.

But AS long AS people alives, he is free to choose for abide to the vine or not.

even Rocky soil able to bear fruit, If stay oN soil. One day I found water melon bear fruit in my Rocky soil yard, among the grass, and the grass bear seed.

If every Christian abide all the time, there always be peace in the church.

The last 20 years, the church where I worship split 4 time.

it is evident that people is oN and of. Some time abide some time not.

if the tree not bear the fruit, the gardener Will work oN soil, put fertelizer, wait for 4 or 5 years.

Nothing happen, Cut It of.


Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

 

[FranC]

INTERMISSION


[video=youtube;SHYgjyGoV9s]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SHYgjyGoV9s[/video]

Thanks.
We all needed that !

 

[stonesoffire]

Peter Said not Deny, than deny, than back, before penthecost.

ofcource Will be stranger after the help of Holy spirit come AS long AS he stay abide.

But AS long AS people alives, he is free to choose for abide to the vine or not.

even Rocky soil able to bear fruit, If stay oN soil. One day I found water melon bear fruit in my Rocky soil yard, among the grass, and the grass bear seed.

If every Christian abide all the time, there always be peace in the church.

The last 20 years, the church where I worship split 4 time.

it is evident that people is oN and of. Some time abide some time not.

if the tree not bear the fruit, the gardener Will work oN soil, put fertelizer, wait for 4 or 5 years.

Nothing happen, Cut It of.


Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

The fig tree is the symbol of the nation of Israel. They were cut down in '70 ad.

 

[BillG]

I can't see how one who has known the Lord would ever turn...truly known. He's too good to turn away from

One can backslide for a time even though backsliding is OT term. Slide back into sinful habits. But, can never be happy for chastening by the Word will be always in mind.

The reason why we stay in faith and examine our faith is that we remain in a place where we can receive from God. I've said this before several times. Faith is substance in the spiritual realm. It has power. And it moves God.

A double minded person...going back and forth...receives not the promises. So stay in faith...check self that we aren't being lied to by the enemy in some way.

Your second paragraph has caught my attention.

In fact it is very personal to me.

I stopped going to church for a long time.
In fact I led a successful youth ministry.
During this period I was newly married, had our first child, studying for my accountancy exams.
I also suffered from severe anxiety and depression.

In the end something had to give and I asked the elders to release me from the youth work.
It took them nine months to release me, and that only happened when a new Elder was told that I had asked nine months earlier and was horrified that it hadn't happened.

He released me.
I then went to lead elder and asked for help, I really needed some spiritual input and discipleship.
He said "No because you are no longer giving out in the church"

Also I was struggling with a severe gambling problem. I was actually gambling at times and realising I was.

The anxiety I feel was a result of a dreadful childhood, ranging from childhood beatings, childhood sex abuse, being thrown out at 14, taken in by a Christian family only to be sexually abused by my so called Christian foster dad.

Went through deliverance ministry that left me worse off. The reason being that heavy stuff started to open up but unfortunately the couple leading me became ill and it stopped. I was left open and raw.

So I stopped going to church, the gambling got worse and the anxiety. The anxiety drove the gambling.

To be honest I felt so hurt, I felt so battered, I felt so useless, a piece of walking crap and that God did not love me unless I complied and proved myself.

All of this was going on while working for the church and after I left church.

One thing is for sure though, I never lost my faith in God, never lost my faith in Jesus. Yes I could not understand why no help seemed forthcoming. I prayed earnestly and believe you me given my anxiety, guilt that I felt it would take me an hour of sitting quietly in order to pluck up the courage to pray, even then it was me agreeing with what I felt about myself.

Just a useless piece of crap who deserved to die.
I even got to the stage after 13 years of waking up every morning at the same time, 2&4 crying and asking God to take my life.
"Kill me now then I know where I am going, but I know you will take care of my family (now with 4 kids)

Do you know what and this is truly truly shocking I CANNOT RECALL ONE PERSON EVER EVER SEEKING ME OUT.
And on the odd occasion I went to church (and when I did from Thursday thru to Sunday when I resolved to go I had nightmares that my wife had to wake me up from) I had stupid people, so called friends who would say "Hello are you new here?

Yes I backslid, I stopped going to church but I NEVER LOST MY FAITH.
Some would say my faith was not real cause I wasn't showing it by works or going to church and so on.

That is why I am so passionate about not writing people off.
I now lead a ministry that's three fold, discipling new Christian's, walking alongside those who want to know more about Christianity and walking with the wounded and hurting.

I get so naffed off when people just write others off. "Oh well they never believed anyway or say can't see any evidence of faith here, obviously not saved"

And when they do that they fall foul of judgment but more importantly "Love each other as I have loved you"

If anyone is interested the following started to help me

John 17:23
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

I wish someone had told me that, it took God to tell me that when I was laid up with a bad back and he asked me to spend time with him. Mind you he asked me 4 times before I said yes.

Alas us believers have a tendency to shoot the wounded rather than be doctors and nurses.

Sorry for the long post everyone but it is something I am so passionate about and will be till the day when God says, now my son NOW it is time to come home.

Please people, fellow brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Love each other as Jesus loves us.
Dont write off a person who says they are believer and yet doesn't walk like one or goes MIA, Come alongside, find out what is going on. If they genuinely believe and know you love them and will not condemn them, they will open up.

 

[PHart]

Where are you Phart? Have you sat down with Him? Walking in Spirit then? And standing for the victories in your own life by the overcoming blood and the testimony of Jesus?

I'm still doing the believing that started 31 years ago. That's means I'm saved:

"...you are saved if you hold fast the word..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Holding fast the word does not constitute a works gospel, as so many instantly think it does when you tell them what the Bible says you are to 'do' to be saved now and onward to the Day of Judgment. It's interesting that you have to cast doubt on my own salvation simply because I say what the Bible says, that we have to keep believing to the very end to be saved in the very end.

 

[PHart]

One thing is for sure though, I never lost my faith in God, never lost my faith in Jesus.

Yes I could not understand why no help seemed forthcoming.

Yes I backslid, I stopped going to church but I NEVER LOST MY FAITH.

And that is key.....you never stopped trusting in Christ.
You were struggling WITHIN your faith in Christ, not walking outside of faith in Christ in unbelief. Christ had you covered every step you took backwards in your struggle.

Some would say my faith was not real cause I wasn't showing it by works or going to church and so on.

Yes.....people who haven't walked the difficult roads in their faith in Christ........yet. Untested people. They can be quite annoying.

That is why I am so passionate about not writing people off.
I now lead a ministry that's three fold, discipling new Christian's, walking alongside those who want to know more about Christianity and walking with the wounded and hurting.

I get so naffed off when people just write others off. "Oh well they never believed anyway or say can't see any evidence of faith here, obviously not saved"

Their fault being they do not know how to discern between the struggling saint and the person who is sinning because they have left the faith altogether. When you've 'been there, done that' you get a certain capacity for discerning the struggling saint vs. the 'I don't care' unbeliever/former believer.

 

[Jackson123]

The fig tree is the symbol of the nation of Israel. They were cut down in '70 ad.

fig tree not always symbol of Israel brother.

when Jesus Curses the fig tree, is real fig tree.

 

[BillG]

And that is key.....you never stopped trusting in Christ.
You were struggling WITHIN your faith in Christ, not walking outside of faith in Christ in unbelief. Christ had you covered every step you took backwards in yo

Amen Phart, I am so glad that Jesus knows what's going on inside of us.
And your post above

Tried to rep your whole post but i have to spread it around a bit.

 

[stonesoffire]

as long AS people alive, there is posibillity of change, from believe to unbelieve or Vice versa.

Peter, Said he Will not Deny Jesus, he Deny, and back to the Lord.

Matthew 24:13King James Version (KJV)

13 But he that shall endure unto the end, the same shall be saved.

I don't disagree with your statement. There is a point in time when our faith becomes mature though. 1John, babes, young men, fathers.

 

[stonesoffire]

Peter Said not Deny, than deny, than back, before penthecost.

ofcource Will be stranger after the help of Holy spirit come AS long AS he stay abide.

But AS long AS people alives, he is free to choose for abide to the vine or not.

even Rocky soil able to bear fruit, If stay oN soil. One day I found water melon bear fruit in my Rocky soil yard, among the grass, and the grass bear seed.

If every Christian abide all the time, there always be peace in the church.

The last 20 years, the church where I worship split 4 time.

it is evident that people is oN and of. Some time abide some time not.

if the tree not bear the fruit, the gardener Will work oN soil, put fertelizer, wait for 4 or 5 years.

Nothing happen, Cut It of.


Luke 13
6 He spake also this parable; A certain man had a fig tree planted in his vineyard; and he came and sought fruit thereon, and found none.
7 Then said he unto the dresser of his vineyard, Behold, these three years I come seeking fruit on this fig tree, and find none: cut it down; why cumbereth it the ground?
8 And he answering said unto him, Lord, let it alone this year also, till I shall dig about it, and dung it:
9 And if it bear fruit, well: and if not, then after that thou shalt cut it down.

I see the parable of the sower differently too Jackson. I see this as the process of being drawn by Holy Spirit. We may be all three of these scenes before our heart becomes the good ground for the seed to take root.

 

[stonesoffire]

Your second paragraph has caught my attention.

In fact it is very personal to me.

I stopped going to church for a long time.
In fact I led a successful youth ministry.
During this period I was newly married, had our first child, studying for my accountancy exams.
I also suffered from severe anxiety and depression.

In the end something had to give and I asked the elders to release me from the youth work.
It took them nine months to release me, and that only happened when a new Elder was told that I had asked nine months earlier and was horrified that it hadn't happened.

He released me.
I then went to lead elder and asked for help, I really needed some spiritual input and discipleship.
He said "No because you are no longer giving out in the church"

Also I was struggling with a severe gambling problem. I was actually gambling at times and realising I was.

The anxiety I feel was a result of a dreadful childhood, ranging from childhood beatings, childhood sex abuse, being thrown out at 14, taken in by a Christian family only to be sexually abused by my so called Christian foster dad.

Went through deliverance ministry that left me worse off. The reason being that heavy stuff started to open up but unfortunately the couple leading me became ill and it stopped. I was left open and raw.

So I stopped going to church, the gambling got worse and the anxiety. The anxiety drove the gambling.

To be honest I felt so hurt, I felt so battered, I felt so useless, a piece of walking crap and that God did not love me unless I complied and proved myself.

All of this was going on while working for the church and after I left church.

One thing is for sure though, I never lost my faith in God, never lost my faith in Jesus. Yes I could not understand why no help seemed forthcoming. I prayed earnestly and believe you me given my anxiety, guilt that I felt it would take me an hour of sitting quietly in order to pluck up the courage to pray, even then it was me agreeing with what I felt about myself.

Just a useless piece of crap who deserved to die.
I even got to the stage after 13 years of waking up every morning at the same time, 2&4 crying and asking God to take my life.
"Kill me now then I know where I am going, but I know you will take care of my family (now with 4 kids)

Do you know what and this is truly truly shocking I CANNOT RECALL ONE PERSON EVER EVER SEEKING ME OUT.
And on the odd occasion I went to church (and when I did from Thursday thru to Sunday when I resolved to go I had nightmares that my wife had to wake me up from) I had stupid people, so called friends who would say "Hello are you new here?

Yes I backslid, I stopped going to church but I NEVER LOST MY FAITH.
Some would say my faith was not real cause I wasn't showing it by works or going to church and so on.

That is why I am so passionate about not writing people off.
I now lead a ministry that's three fold, discipling new Christian's, walking alongside those who want to know more about Christianity and walking with the wounded and hurting.

I get so naffed off when people just write others off. "Oh well they never believed anyway or say can't see any evidence of faith here, obviously not saved"

And when they do that they fall foul of judgment but more importantly "Love each other as I have loved you"

If anyone is interested the following started to help me

John 17:23
23 I am in them and you are in me. May they experience such perfect unity that the world will know that you sent me and that you love them as much as you love me.

I wish someone had told me that, it took God to tell me that when I was laid up with a bad back and he asked me to spend time with him. Mind you he asked me 4 times before I said yes.

Alas us believers have a tendency to shoot the wounded rather than be doctors and nurses.

Sorry for the long post everyone but it is something I am so passionate about and will be till the day when God says, now my son NOW it is time to come home.

Please people, fellow brothers and sisters in our Lord Jesus Christ.
Love each other as Jesus loves us.
Dont write off a person who says they are believer and yet doesn't walk like one or goes MIA, Come alongside, find out what is going on. If they genuinely believe and know you love them and will not condemn them, they will open up.

It's a beautiful testimony Bill of the grace of God. Reminds me of the poem The Hound Of Heaven.

But, I'm not sure if you are upset with me because it sounds like you think I am writing off the backslider in some way.

Jeremiah 3 teaches the thinking of Father in relation to this. Towards the end of the chapter it says...paraphrasing...the Lord says return to me..there's more...going to find it or I'll screw it up.

Jer 3:14　 "Return, unfaithful people," declares the LORD, "for I am your husband. I'll take you, one from a city and two from a family, and I'll bring you to Zion.
　
Jer 3:15　 I'll give you shepherds after my own heart, and they'll shepherd you with knowledge and good sense."　

Jer 3:21　 A voice on the bare heights is heard, the weeping and pleading of Israel's sons because they have perverted their way; they have forgotten the LORD their God.　


Jer 3:22　 "Return, O faithless sons; I will heal your faithlessness." "Behold, we come to you, for you are the LORD our God.　

Even when we are unfaithful, He remains faithful. And as Peter said...where would we go for you have the words of eternal life.

Is why I believe OSAS.

And just this one thought...the best testimonys IMO are those where God Himself intervenes. The work of Holy Spirit.

 

[stonesoffire]

I'm still doing the believing that started 31 years ago. That's means I'm saved:

"...you are saved if you hold fast the word..." (1 Corinthians 15:2 NASB)

Holding fast the word does not constitute a works gospel, as so many instantly think it does when you tell them what the Bible says you are to 'do' to be saved now and onward to the Day of Judgment. It's interesting that you have to cast doubt on my own salvation simply because I say what the Bible says, that we have to keep believing to the very end to be saved in the very end.

I'm not casting doubt on your salvation. It's not my right to judge anyone and in fact I believe that there is no condemnation for sin on anyone in this world. Jesus died for all mankind and forgiveness is always extended. One only has to believe the gospel, which is our obedience, and receive it.

I was saying that out of the books of Watchman Nee to help you understand the points I am trying to make.

And where did I say that holding fast to the Word constitutes works. There are good deeds one can do. The result of the tree of knowledge. There are verses that read will build our character and form us in the image of the Divine. ( just a note here, in Peter it is said that we are given everything within through Holy Spirit to live a godly life. Again of His work. And there are giftings that Holy Spirit gives that we might do the works of God.

All of faith in the promises of what He will do if we just believe and place our faith in Him. Being again...that fixed position.

 

[AllenW]

Why do I need to go to the lobby to get some Goobers when there's already gobs of them here in this thread, lol?

Just follow the leader and do what everyone else does.

 

[TruthTalk]

It does not get any plainer..........Our righteous works have ZERO to do with Salvation!

New American Standard Bible
He saved us, not on the basis of deeds which we have done in righteousness, but according to His mercy, by the washing of regeneration and renewing by the Holy Spirit,

'We are saved unto good works, not by them. Some people on this thread put the emphasis on works after you are saved, rather than growing in grace and the knowledge of Jesus Christ. These would be teacher's try so hard to lord it over believer's with works and do's and don'ts. But God looks at the heart not at the outward appearance. The Scribe's and Pharisee's had their works system down to perfection. But Jesus said to them; "woe unto you Scribe's and Pharisee's."

My point is, even if we are a raisin on the vine Jesus Love's us, and He will reward us when the awards are given out.

Rev. 22:12 Behold, I am coming quickly, and My reward is with Me, to render to every man according to what he has done.

The Meaning of the
Judgment (Bema) Seat

Both Romans 14:10 and 2 Corinthians 5:9 speak of the “judgment seat.” This is a translation of one Greek word, the word bema. While bema is used in the gospels and Acts of the raised platform where a Roman magistrate or ruler sat to make decisions and pass sentence (Matt. 27:19; John 19:13), its use in the epistles by Paul, because of his many allusions to the Greek athletic contests, is more in keeping with its original use among the Greeks.

This word was taken from Isthmian games where the contestants would compete for the prize under the careful scrutiny of judges who would make sure that every rule of the contest was obeyed (cf. 2 Tim. 2:5). The victor of a given event who participated according to the rules was led by the judge to the platform called the Bema. There the laurel wreath was placed on his head as a symbol of victory (cf. 1 Cor. 9:24-25).

In all of these passages, “Paul was picturing the believer as a competitor in a spiritual contest. As the victorious Grecian athlete appeared before the Bema to receive his perishable award, so the Christian will appear before Christ’s Bema to receive his imperishable award. The judge at the Bema bestowed rewards to the victors. He did not whip the losers.”[SUP]2[/SUP] "We might add, neither did he sentence them to hard labor."

 

[garee]

We should understand that good deeds, or works, are a good thing to God.
NOT an insult because, as some here say, HE already did it all.

So it looks like some babes in Christ know more than adults in Christ ...

Good when we accedit the whole work to God. no man could be found wit a righteousness of thier own (none nada)

Wa ,Wa ,Wa, boo whoo LOL

Christ is the Greatest even though the Apostles thought one of them were. They played the”who is greatest” game over and over. It became time for you need to become like a child.

Seems like some of those adults who think they will be found with a righteousness of their self(self righteousness) that comes by doing some wonderful work they can and really do …. and use that work as a sign they have the Holy Spirit. I think those adults will hear the words… depart from you worker of iniquity(sin).

Those who attribute the grace of Christ as if it came after some work their sinful flesh could perform and not Christ working in them to both will and do His good pleasure (imputed righteousness).could be sent back to kindergarten

Notice Christ did not say they did not perform them but faults them for blaspheming the Holy name by which we are called heaven ward, as if it came from their effort or will. and not the will in respect to the work of Christ the anointing Holy Spirit of God.

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22
The question we should ask our own selves is are we workers of iniquity as those who do despite to the grace of God like the example in Mathew above?

Wy do you think he called that person a worker of inquity?

 

[TruthTalk]

I'm still doing the believing that started 31 years ago. That's means I'm saved:

What do you mean, "still doing the believing?" I get your point but its an odd way of conveying your love for Jesus.

 

[Jackson123]

I see the parable of the sower differently too Jackson. I see this as the process of being drawn by Holy Spirit. We may be all three of these scenes before our heart becomes the good ground for the seed to take root.

So you believe soil can change, Rocky soil may change to good soil, after Holy Spirit work oN It, is that mean good soil may change into Rocky soil after satan put a lots of rock?

 

[LoveGodForever]

So why don't you clearly spell out EXACTLY what you believe in regards to how man is saved? All you talk about is the 10 commandments and keeping the Sabbath day on Saturday and accuse others of teaching traditions of man over the Word of God. What am I supposed to believe?

I already have clearly spelled out what I believe in regards to being saved in many posts in different threads but you do not believe me. In this thread x2 and in other threads.

Post 22438 linked
Post 19989 linked

You should believe God's Word.

 

[FranC]

lol



oh fran

What does that mean??

 

[Meggido]

If you were standing at the gates of heaven right now and Jesus Christ asked you why He should let you into heaven, what would be your EXACT answer?

I would not have to say anything...the fact he KNOWS me and we dined together is enough.....John 17.3 & Rev 3.20


what would you say?