Not By Works
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All good.
We should understand that good deeds, or works, are a good thing to God.
NOT an insult because, as some here say, HE already did it all.
So it looks like some babes in Christ know more than adults in Christ ...
BTW, YOU are not a babe in Christ.
You're fully grown.
You're Learning scripture and that has nothing to do with knowing Jesus.
You ALREADY know Him.
Keep reading scripture so that NO MAN will steer you wrong.
We should understand that good deeds, or works, are a good thing to God.
NOT an insult because, as some here say, HE already did it all.
So it looks like some babes in Christ know more than adults in Christ ...
BTW, YOU are not a babe in Christ.
You're fully grown.
You're Learning scripture and that has nothing to do with knowing Jesus.
You ALREADY know Him.
Keep reading scripture so that NO MAN will steer you wrong.
Oh my goodness Grace777,
You are full of so much gobbledygook sometimes. Who here has ever said to you we need to keep the laws of Moses or the annual festivals and their Sabbaths to be saved? Only you have said this not me. The law of liberty in Christ is not a law to commit sin (break God's Law). Have you ever heard me say just once we are saved by works or the things we do anywhere in CC? If so please post it or please stop saying things that are not true (you know if it is not true then it is a lie) and I have posted many times what I believe even here on this thread so there is no misunderstanding in what I say.
Now please show me just one bible verse the says;
1. Jesus is the Sabbath?
2. We now have to keep Sunday Worship instead of God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment?
Now if you cannot why do you follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God? If you love Jesus you follow Him it is really that simple.
In Christ with much love
You are full of so much gobbledygook sometimes. Who here has ever said to you we need to keep the laws of Moses or the annual festivals and their Sabbaths to be saved? Only you have said this not me. The law of liberty in Christ is not a law to commit sin (break God's Law). Have you ever heard me say just once we are saved by works or the things we do anywhere in CC? If so please post it or please stop saying things that are not true (you know if it is not true then it is a lie) and I have posted many times what I believe even here on this thread so there is no misunderstanding in what I say.
Now please show me just one bible verse the says;
1. Jesus is the Sabbath?
2. We now have to keep Sunday Worship instead of God's 7th Day Sabbath commandment?
Now if you cannot why do you follow the teachings and traditions of man over the Word of God? If you love Jesus you follow Him it is really that simple.
In Christ with much love
P
That's what I've been saying. These sanctified people are now in outright unbelief, not the struggles of living the faith.
Sanctification in Christ perfects you in Christ one time for all time. You don't have to keep going back to fix your relationship with God with recurring sacrifices like you had to in the first covenant. You are made perfect by a single sacrifice, so keep believing in that one sacrifice that does that for you. Don't lose what it does for you by not believing in it anymore.
Yes, only people who keep believing are saved. The author is saying, you Hebrews have that salvation, don't go back to unbelief and lose that salvation. Only believing people have and keep salvation.
By the way, notice how this shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that this group is saved. And yet the author still warns them about what will happen if they shrink back in unbelief.
No, you did not consider the context. You blatantly ignored the plain simple text which plainly says what the usage of 'sanctified' is in this passage and instead are clinging to weak and vague interpretations of other context that directly contradicts the straightforward and plain text.
I see this repeatedly in OSAS arguments. I call them the 'not really' doctrines of OSAS--the plain words 'don't really' mean what they say, and instead there are these esoteric real meanings that you have to be taught in order to get the real meaning of a passage. OSAS is easily the most dishonest doctrine I have ever encountered in the church. Hands down. It's a spirit at work in the church. It's source is a lying spirit of deceit tickling the ears of a church who are too afraid to accept the truth that they can lose their salvation if they stop believing, made all the more fearful by the completely stupid teaching that if you think you have to continue to believe to stay saved you are working to keep yourself saved. What a joke.
Correct, born again Christians will never be cast into hell. FORMER born again Christians will be turned into hell if they stop believing and God turns them over to that unbelief. It's important to understand the argument correctly.
Jesus spoke of these who believe in Him but who stumble so as to go to the eternal fire in Matthew 18:6-9. It's been amazing to me to see people repeatedly not be able to see the text when I post it on line. The OSAS doctrine--a doctrine of demons--is so powerful they literally can not see Jesus' warning to people who believe in Him to get rid of those who cause them to stumble so they won't go to the eternal fire.
It's amazing that you STILL do not even understand the argument. You only 'save' yourself in the same way you got saved to begin with--by BELIEVING. That's not the damnable works gospel. If it is, then you and I were saved by our damnable works the moment our believing started.
Besides caring about people going to hell, I'm looking for my reward in the life to come of every person who hears what I'm saying and turns from their OSAS comfort zone in repentance and believes to the very end and is saved. We are so far removed from what the Bible actually teaches you probably have no idea what I'm talking about in this regard. I don't make this stuff up. I simply read my Bible for myself and do not read it through the lens of the popular doctrines of the church. It's amazing how far off from what the Bible actually says that the church is at this present time in history. Simply amazing.
The ironic thing is, it took a fallen believer (who had the genuine gift of tongues, by the way, showing they were really saved) to tell me in a Biblical discussion we were having, "so the Bible doesn't really mean what it says" to make me see how completely stupid and unreasonable I and the church have been regarding our ridiculous esoteric interpretations of scripture.
Stay in the faith and you are forever perfected and preserved. What's so hard for people to accept about that????
You probably can't even grasp that alternate understanding of being perfected forever in Christ, let alone accept it. That's how bad this present indoctrination is gripping the church today. Christians can not even see any other way to think about doctrines outside of their own pre-programmed dogmas.
I bet you can not understand how it's possible that you can be perfect forever as long as you continue to possess what it is that makes you forever perfect. It's analogous to being forever rich because you're holding the winning lotto ticket while you wait to redeem it. Even if you and others do see the truth in that you'll still choose to turn away from it. That's the truly scary part.
This problem all stems from the church's profound ignorance of Paul's law vs. grace argument. Somehow it's been gleaned from Romans that salvation is by 'nothing at all', therefore, if you think it incumbent on you to have to continue to believe to the very end then you are trying to earn your own salvation. How ridiculous. But that demonstrates the profound ignorance gripping the church and which the enemy is using against us to destroy us.
Sanctification in Christ perfects you in Christ one time for all time. You don't have to keep going back to fix your relationship with God with recurring sacrifices like you had to in the first covenant. You are made perfect by a single sacrifice, so keep believing in that one sacrifice that does that for you. Don't lose what it does for you by not believing in it anymore.
Yes, only people who keep believing are saved. The author is saying, you Hebrews have that salvation, don't go back to unbelief and lose that salvation. Only believing people have and keep salvation.
By the way, notice how this shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that this group is saved. And yet the author still warns them about what will happen if they shrink back in unbelief.
No, you did not consider the context. You blatantly ignored the plain simple text which plainly says what the usage of 'sanctified' is in this passage and instead are clinging to weak and vague interpretations of other context that directly contradicts the straightforward and plain text.
I see this repeatedly in OSAS arguments. I call them the 'not really' doctrines of OSAS--the plain words 'don't really' mean what they say, and instead there are these esoteric real meanings that you have to be taught in order to get the real meaning of a passage. OSAS is easily the most dishonest doctrine I have ever encountered in the church. Hands down. It's a spirit at work in the church. It's source is a lying spirit of deceit tickling the ears of a church who are too afraid to accept the truth that they can lose their salvation if they stop believing, made all the more fearful by the completely stupid teaching that if you think you have to continue to believe to stay saved you are working to keep yourself saved. What a joke.
Correct, born again Christians will never be cast into hell. FORMER born again Christians will be turned into hell if they stop believing and God turns them over to that unbelief. It's important to understand the argument correctly.
Jesus spoke of these who believe in Him but who stumble so as to go to the eternal fire in Matthew 18:6-9. It's been amazing to me to see people repeatedly not be able to see the text when I post it on line. The OSAS doctrine--a doctrine of demons--is so powerful they literally can not see Jesus' warning to people who believe in Him to get rid of those who cause them to stumble so they won't go to the eternal fire.
It's amazing that you STILL do not even understand the argument. You only 'save' yourself in the same way you got saved to begin with--by BELIEVING. That's not the damnable works gospel. If it is, then you and I were saved by our damnable works the moment our believing started.
Besides caring about people going to hell, I'm looking for my reward in the life to come of every person who hears what I'm saying and turns from their OSAS comfort zone in repentance and believes to the very end and is saved. We are so far removed from what the Bible actually teaches you probably have no idea what I'm talking about in this regard. I don't make this stuff up. I simply read my Bible for myself and do not read it through the lens of the popular doctrines of the church. It's amazing how far off from what the Bible actually says that the church is at this present time in history. Simply amazing.
The ironic thing is, it took a fallen believer (who had the genuine gift of tongues, by the way, showing they were really saved) to tell me in a Biblical discussion we were having, "so the Bible doesn't really mean what it says" to make me see how completely stupid and unreasonable I and the church have been regarding our ridiculous esoteric interpretations of scripture.
Stay in the faith and you are forever perfected and preserved. What's so hard for people to accept about that????
You probably can't even grasp that alternate understanding of being perfected forever in Christ, let alone accept it. That's how bad this present indoctrination is gripping the church today. Christians can not even see any other way to think about doctrines outside of their own pre-programmed dogmas.
I bet you can not understand how it's possible that you can be perfect forever as long as you continue to possess what it is that makes you forever perfect. It's analogous to being forever rich because you're holding the winning lotto ticket while you wait to redeem it. Even if you and others do see the truth in that you'll still choose to turn away from it. That's the truly scary part.
This problem all stems from the church's profound ignorance of Paul's law vs. grace argument. Somehow it's been gleaned from Romans that salvation is by 'nothing at all', therefore, if you think it incumbent on you to have to continue to believe to the very end then you are trying to earn your own salvation. How ridiculous. But that demonstrates the profound ignorance gripping the church and which the enemy is using against us to destroy us.
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Did you think I said adam and eve birthed a spirit Stunned? Not sure how you saw that.
God gives breath. Breath is pneuma. Wind. Holy Spirit is likened to wind. With Rosemarys post I wasn't saying that we are born with Holy Spirit. We have a spirit. And it's compared to an egg in scripture and seed of the children of God are born again...the seed is said in greek to be sperma.
Likened to the act of conception. We need to be awakened in our spirit and that is only by the new birth. It's seen in psalms and in Song of Solomon. Also in the prophets but I can't tell you right now which one. Someday I am going to go off the boards and write these things out. Need the go from above, but my husband is prodding me to do it now.
So if you see me gone...you will know why.
God gives breath. Breath is pneuma. Wind. Holy Spirit is likened to wind. With Rosemarys post I wasn't saying that we are born with Holy Spirit. We have a spirit. And it's compared to an egg in scripture and seed of the children of God are born again...the seed is said in greek to be sperma.
Likened to the act of conception. We need to be awakened in our spirit and that is only by the new birth. It's seen in psalms and in Song of Solomon. Also in the prophets but I can't tell you right now which one. Someday I am going to go off the boards and write these things out. Need the go from above, but my husband is prodding me to do it now.
So if you see me gone...you will know why.
This is only your perception seven. What is happening with some is that the foundation is uppermost in mind and they won't move off it. That is only the Work of Jesus...and it is all through our salvation process. Known as grace. We believe the Word...leading to faith and there is the promise fulfilled.
It's not hard to understand...but religion will confuse. And I seem to remember some of your posts stating the same thing. You at one time was confused by this. What has brought about the change?
He gave us Holy Spirit and He is producing the works of the faith of Jesus...who knows that what He promised...He fulfills.
We put our faith in His.
It's not hard to understand...but religion will confuse. And I seem to remember some of your posts stating the same thing. You at one time was confused by this. What has brought about the change?
He gave us Holy Spirit and He is producing the works of the faith of Jesus...who knows that what He promised...He fulfills.
We put our faith in His.
P
I don't remember for sure.
But works versus the grace of God in our salvation...I definitely care about.
But works versus the grace of God in our salvation...I definitely care about.
Works are the result of our salvation which is what God has given us within by His Holy Spirit. And it's not good deeds.
There is the confusion. Go back and read what Jesus says is works. These are done through the power of Holy Spirit. Only.
One can do good deeds by His leading, true. But, too many are spinning their wheels by not waiting on the Lord for instruction. Go by what they think is His will. I see it all the time, and it's not lasting.
We must learn to wait on Him. Hear who He chooses as Pastor, Apostle, Prophet etc. And not self appoint.
There is the confusion. Go back and read what Jesus says is works. These are done through the power of Holy Spirit. Only.
One can do good deeds by His leading, true. But, too many are spinning their wheels by not waiting on the Lord for instruction. Go by what they think is His will. I see it all the time, and it's not lasting.
We must learn to wait on Him. Hear who He chooses as Pastor, Apostle, Prophet etc. And not self appoint.
P
Include what, your own works.....to earn salvation for you?
If that's what you mean WHO IS TEACHING THAT HERE?
I see people teaching that born again people grow up into righteous works, and that's how works are an inseparable part of salvation, or else you are simply not born again. That's hardly a works gospel. Why does it get heard that way? Are we in the midst of a works-less church too afraid to admit the truth that born again people have works to prove that they are indeed born again by faith apart from works?
If that's what you mean WHO IS TEACHING THAT HERE?
I see people teaching that born again people grow up into righteous works, and that's how works are an inseparable part of salvation, or else you are simply not born again. That's hardly a works gospel. Why does it get heard that way? Are we in the midst of a works-less church too afraid to admit the truth that born again people have works to prove that they are indeed born again by faith apart from works?