Not By Works

[royalscot]

We must be holy because He is holy. The dispute comes over how this happens. Does He cause me to keep the law outwardly? No. He causes me to keep it inwardly, in spirit, in my heart, and then the outside is just clean as well. If I don't murder in my heart and in spirit, I will not murder outwardly. And if I trust/rest/abide, I am keeping my sabbath rest in Him. There is no law that can condemn a man who keeps the law in spirit. The spirit of the law is life and the letter is death.

what law are you keeping, even the law, that was given to the jewish, also involved or attached law of that land, yet you live in the usa,
also this law involved a temple of stone, to follow this law fully,

when were you saved for observing the law, when were christians given this law, if grace is a gift. etc

 

[NoNameMcgee]

deceived imply s, there has to be a deceiver or deceivers , without context, what voice spoke to a modern day( 2017 ) if it is looking at being deceived. yet cannot give context to scripture, the the deceiver can only point at untruth.

given the bible went to print after , most of the apostles of jesus were dead.

thats not what i was implying

Jeremiah 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

 

[royalscot]

It happens to all of us. There's a tremendous pull to go back to the letter rather than to abide! Tremendous! I go back and forth sometimes when reading, and especially when reading the OT. To walk in the spirit in some consistency is like...having to relearn to speak after a stroke almost...

when were you told to go back to law, if it was the same law, that pulls you back.
acts 15, would not be in the bible. they would have just kept everything, the way it was.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It depends what you're trusting God for.
It depends on how long you've been a Christian.

I've had difficulties in life and as I look back on them, I see that God is using them TODAY for a good reason.
If you're talking about financial matters, well, I think we should go to work, work unto the Lord, do the best we can and provide for our familes. I like nice things, I don't believe this is a sin --- as long as those nice things don't become my god, or I love them more than people. We should store up some stuff here the way things are going...

Trust takes time. And sometimes we see sin where there isn't any.

I think I might disagree somewhat about storing up some things because of the way things are going...it is not what I store up that will provide for me and keep me safe and fed. We have an example that was given for us with Israel in the desert. The extra they collected for security because they wanted to feel secure turned to worms. And also God can sew up a hole in your pocket or put a hole in your pocket. What they did to feel secure turned to worms but yet their shoes lasted for 40 years.

He didn't demand that they only gather enough for the present day because He was stingy. He did it to test their trust (faith.)

 

[garee]

ok first ill place why i believe

Romans 2:15

“Which shew the work of the law written in their hearts, their conscience also bearing witness, and their thoughts the mean while accusing or else excusing one another


even without the Word

HE provides ways of knowing His will

BUT


Matthew 7:7-8

7 Ask, and it shall be given you; seek, and ye shall find; knock, and it shall be opened unto you:

8 For every one that asketh receiveth; and he that seeketh findeth; and to him that knocketh it shall be opened.


i think these people who have no access to the Word
if they seek the truth

and follow righteousness

God will give them more and more

even if its in signs or visions or dreams

I think the key is hearing God called the hearing of faith (Christ's) Many hear the knock having tasted of the good word being made partakers but Christ does not open the door to those who crucify him over and over by stoping up thier ears. Not having ears to hear what the Sirit is saying to the churches

Psa 58:3 The wicked are estranged from the womb: they go astray as soon as they be born, speaking lies.
Psa 58:4 Their poison is like the poison of a serpent: they are like the deaf adder that stoppeth her ear;

I would be careful with the idea of signs and wonders. Jesus says it’s an evil generation (natural man) that seeks after them. We walk by faith the unseen.

God is no longer brining and new revelations in any manner (dreams a visitations or new prophecy). He did when he was still adding to his word. We no longer have it in part for over two thousand years but do have the perfect, complete.

It’s how we test the spirits to see if they are of God .If any man say I had a visitation or I had a dream we are lovingly commanded to "believe not", we can apply that to the false prophet Mohamed or any man that says; "thus sayeth the Lord",knowing the Lord has not spoken

Its how we hear the voice of God and not that of a stranger No talking to strangers.

 

[royalscot]

uhh no

thats not what i was implying

Jeremiah 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

when did your heart or your action ,save you. so you must have been told or read the bible to the fact , for there is to be a saviour. it is up to you to listen, or reject what is being said. so the deceiver can be you, or the person who told you,if you cannot support there/ your claim or faith. then who is answerable, for you/them, being deceived.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

when did your heart or your action ,save you. so you must have been told or read the bible to the fact , for there is to be a saviour. it is up to you to listen, or reject what is being said. so the deceiver can be you, or the person who told you,if you cannot support there/ your claim or faith. then who is answerable, for you/them, being deceived.

who said the heart or actions save?


you replied to when i posted works dont save
...

and scriptures to back that up

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

It depends what you're trusting God for.
It depends on how long you've been a Christian.

I've had difficulties in life and as I look back on them, I see that God is using them TODAY for a good reason.
If you're talking about financial matters, well, I think we should go to work, work unto the Lord, do the best we can and provide for our familes. I like nice things, I don't believe this is a sin --- as long as those nice things don't become my god, or I love them more than people. We should store up some stuff here the way things are going...

Trust takes time. And sometimes we see sin where there isn't any.

I always examine my heart concerning things. If a child breaks the limoge plate that was my grandmas and I have a fit and make the child cry for having the clumsiness of youth, it is a sure bet that my heart was where my treasure was.

If I fuss and fret that my sister ran over the driveway and left a rut in the damp earth and grass, its a sure bet that I love my perfect lawn too much.

If the outside of mycar gets a ding and I worry about it or yell at the person who put it there, its a sure bet that my heart is not right concerning this useful possession that is a car.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

when were you told to go back to law, if it was the same law, that pulls you back.
acts 15, would not be in the bible. they would have just kept everything, the way it was.

I'm talking about the pull to go back to following the letter of the law and thinking I have not murdered. The letter of the law can be followed while inside there is a breaking of the law.

 

[NoNameMcgee]

Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee View Post
nope

im saying people who think what they DO saves them
mat.7-22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


are decieved and place their faith in themselfs over Jesus



________________

royalscot
deceived imply s, there has to be a deceiver or deceivers , without context, what voice spoke to a modern day( 2017 ) if it is looking at being deceived. yet cannot give context to scripture, the the deceiver can only point at untruth.

given the bible went to print after , most of the apostles of jesus were dead.

__________________________

thats not what i was implying

Jeremiah 17:9

9 The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it?

when did your heart or your action ,save you. so you must have been told or read the bible to the fact , for there is to be a saviour. it is up to you to listen, or reject what is being said. so the deceiver can be you, or the person who told you,if you cannot support there/ your claim or faith. then who is answerable, for you/them, being deceived.

 

[royalscot]

Somebody get a calendar and red pen !!

I agree with the above.

But it's just a different way of saying what I Always say, which is this...:

God still DEMANDS that we keep the commandments. HE has not changed. There is only ONE God.

What HAS CHANGED is HOW we keep the commandments, or Law.

The New Covenant is a new way of keeping the Law.
With Love for Jesus and for our fellow man.
And the scriptures you list.

The problem I have with some posts is that they sound as if the person (you or Others) are saying that we are free and so do not have to keep the Law.

Why do I say this?
Because you and Others refuse to state that it is necessary to keep the Laws and to follow the teachings of Jesus.

This has to be CLEAR to someone who is a new Christian or who does not understanding the difference between being under the Law and following the Law - which was NOT abolished.

i never read so much rubbish, a new way to keep law. do you understand, what condemnation dose, to you.


Romans 8: Life in the Spirit
1 There is therefore now no condemnation for those who are in Christ Jesus.2 For the law of the Spirit of life has set you free in Christ Jesus from the law of sin and death.3 For God has done what the law, weakened by the flesh, could not do. By sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and for sin, he condemned sin in the flesh,4 in order that the righteous requirement of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.5 For those who live according to the flesh set their minds on the things of the flesh, but those who live according to the Spirit set their minds on the things of the Spirit.

no condemnation, needs a law to condemn.

are you trying, to put jesus back on the cross, for your sin, only shows how foolish some are deceived etc

 

[Stephen63]

That is why I love Him so much, because I know that He no longer holds my sin against me, and I know how much He truly loves me.

I notice this in many posts: I love Jesus, & He loves me, therefore I know I'm alright.

But the thing is, every human that believes in God says this.

Ask a Mormon if they love God. Ask a Jehovah's witness if they love God. What would you think they would say?

So, does that really make the difference?

NO.

Just because they love God doesn't mean they're LIVING by faith.

Aaannnd, do you know what these others will/can say? "I love God, & my neighbor as myself, so I'm walking in obedience to God, & I'm alright."

NOT TRUE. No Mormon who does this has eternal life.

Neither is anyone else who says that if they're not walking in true doctrine.

The Bible declares that all false teachers & false prophets have their part in the Lake of Fire, no matter how much they say they love God or their neighbor.

Throughout this thread, everyone has argued their own side of what they believe, & most would agree that it's a MAJOR salvation doctrine argument.

Therefore, somebody's going to hell, aren't they?

 

[royalscot]

Originally Posted by NoNameMcgee View Post
nope

im saying people who think what they DO saves them
mat.7-22
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?


are decieved and place their faith in themselfs over Jesus



________________

royalscot
deceived imply s, there has to be a deceiver or deceivers , without context, what voice spoke to a modern day( 2017 ) if it is looking at being deceived. yet cannot give context to scripture, the the deceiver can only point at untruth.

given the bible went to print after , most of the apostles of jesus were dead.

__________________________

when can you do that, is my point, when did you save your self, the part about faith is,you do not understand, because that faith ,is in someone else, ie a saviour.

speculating about others, is a waste of time, when free will ,has to understand and hold to a saviour that saves, etc

 

[Stephen63]

If you truly believe, then there will never be a past tense.

That's not true.

What do you think an apostate is?

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

I would say that it IS living by faith to believe what He has said about our sins being forgiven us...

 

[Bogadile]

I notice this in many posts: I love Jesus, & He loves me, therefore I know I'm alright.

But the thing is, every human that believes in God says this.

Ask a Mormon if they love God. Ask a Jehovah's witness if they love God. What would you think they would say?

So, does that really make the difference?

NO.

Just because they love God doesn't mean they're LIVING by faith.

Aaannnd, do you know what these others will/can say? "I love God, & my neighbor as myself, so I'm walking in obedience to God, & I'm alright."

NOT TRUE. No Mormon who does this has eternal life.

Neither is anyone else who says that if they're not walking in true doctrine.

The Bible declares that all false teachers & false prophets have their part in the Lake of Fire, no matter how much they say they love God or their neighbor.

Throughout this thread, everyone has argued their own side of what they believe, & most would agree that it's a MAJOR salvation doctrine argument.

Therefore, somebody's going to hell, aren't they?

Can you tell me how I can know I am not teaching false doctrine or believing in false doctrine? What can I do to not be one of the unlucky ones?

 

[NoNameMcgee]

when can you do that, is my point, when did you save your self, the part about faith is,you do not understand, because that faith ,is in someone else, ie a saviour.

speculating about others, is a waste of time, when free will ,has to understand and hold to a saviour that saves, etc

you misunderstand completely...

it makes me wonder if you even read what was posted.....

 

[Stephen63]

For anyone


Matthew 25:1-13

25 Then shall the kingdom of heaven be likened unto ten virgins, which took their lamps, and went forth to meet the bridegroom.

2 And five of them were wise, and five were foolish.

3 They that were foolish took their lamps, and took no oil with them:

4 But the wise took oil in their vessels with their lamps.

5 While the bridegroom tarried, they all slumbered and slept.

6 And at midnight there was a cry made, Behold, the bridegroom cometh; go ye out to meet him.

7 Then all those virgins arose, and trimmed their lamps.

8 And the foolish said unto the wise, Give us of your oil; for our lamps are gone out.

9 But the wise answered, saying, Not so; lest there be not enough for us and you: but go ye rather to them that sell, and buy for yourselves.

10 And while they went to buy, the bridegroom came; and they that were ready went in with him to the marriage: and the door was shut.

11 Afterward came also the other virgins, saying, Lord, Lord, open to us.

12 But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not.

13 Watch therefore, for ye know neither the day nor the hour wherein the Son of man cometh.


hm..

what would compare these 5 virgins to?
_________________________________
nonbelievers?
____________________________________
those who were luke warm and lost their salvation?
____________________________________
reprobates?

I hear ya.

Folks forget that ALL 10 were invited..... which makes them a part of the kingdom. But in the end, the door was shut, because they were not prepared.

 

[royalscot]

I notice this in many posts: I love Jesus, & He loves me, therefore I know I'm alright.

But the thing is, every human that believes in God says this.

Ask a Mormon if they love God. Ask a Jehovah's witness if they love God. What would you think they would say?

So, does that really make the difference?

NO.

Just because they love God doesn't mean they're LIVING by faith.

Aaannnd, do you know what these others will/can say? "I love God, & my neighbor as myself, so I'm walking in obedience to God, & I'm alright."

NOT TRUE. No Mormon who does this has eternal life.

Neither is anyone else who says that if they're not walking in true doctrine.

The Bible declares that all false teachers & false prophets have their part in the Lake of Fire, no matter how much they say they love God or their neighbor.

Throughout this thread, everyone has argued their own side of what they believe, & most would agree that it's a MAJOR salvation doctrine argument.

Therefore, somebody's going to hell, aren't they?

if your in context to the bible , then who is a false teacher. given when did you save your self, etc

when did i say follow my teaching, if a bible quote is given, then it up to you to test for your self, what is being said, but since you cannot speak for god, if grace is a gift, then when did it exclude anyone, that believes.


For God So Loved the World
16 "For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.John 3

 

[royalscot]

you misunderstand completely...

it makes me wonder if you even read what was posted.....

you can wonder, all you want. you have free will. and a bible, to quote what you mean,