The Rapture
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My mind isn't made up, I'm going by what the bible says. The Lords sacrifice was at the day of the Lord, how can I be convinced that this is talking about something in the future? Show me scripture that says Christ will be crucified again or that the Lord's sacrifice is something other than the sacrifice of his son and I will believe it. I'm not closed minded but my mind can only be changed with scripture.
B
I said they weren't flying scorpions. It could've been helicopters with nerve agents and weapons that the prophet was trying to describe.
But they weren't flying scorpions with wings. I am not saying nothing flies.
I know what the difference is to pretibulationist, but the day of the Lord started at the beginning of the last days is culminated in Jesus' second return; the day of the Lord, and our gathering together unto Him is all one event. There is no secret return of Christ; that is exactly what Paul was warning believers about (to not be shaken by this teaching and Jesus warns don't believe it when they tell you he is in a secret chamber).
There'll be no secret rapture return of Christ; Jesus warns us that every eye will see Him when He comes after the tribulation. Jesus is clear and Paul was clear. What you are sharing is convoluted to say the least.
I believe the Lord will keep us from His wrath. No one argues this. We just don't bel8ieve it happens with a pretribulation rapture because that goes against Scripture.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
After the antichrist reigns down his terror on believers sometime shortly there after Jesus will return and the antichrist will be defeated. this doesn't say anything about pretribulation rapture. You are only making inferences. It is the same with the rest of those verses.
But they weren't flying scorpions with wings. I am not saying nothing flies.
I know what the difference is to pretibulationist, but the day of the Lord started at the beginning of the last days is culminated in Jesus' second return; the day of the Lord, and our gathering together unto Him is all one event. There is no secret return of Christ; that is exactly what Paul was warning believers about (to not be shaken by this teaching and Jesus warns don't believe it when they tell you he is in a secret chamber).
There'll be no secret rapture return of Christ; Jesus warns us that every eye will see Him when He comes after the tribulation. Jesus is clear and Paul was clear. What you are sharing is convoluted to say the least.
I believe the Lord will keep us from His wrath. No one argues this. We just don't bel8ieve it happens with a pretribulation rapture because that goes against Scripture.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]They will wage war against the Lamb, but the Lamb will triumph over them because he is Lord of lords and King of kings—and with him will be his called, chosen and faithful followers.”
After the antichrist reigns down his terror on believers sometime shortly there after Jesus will return and the antichrist will be defeated. this doesn't say anything about pretribulation rapture. You are only making inferences. It is the same with the rest of those verses.
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Here is a good resource if you want to see what various scholars have to say on a particular verse. I don't always agree with them but in this case I do.
Zephaniah 1:8 Commentaries: "Then it will come about on the day of the LORD'S sacrifice That I will punish the princes, the king's sons And all who clothe themselves with foreign garments.
When you see "sacrifice" used in association with the Day of the Lord(s), think "slaughter" not redemption. The passage starting in Zec 11:4 is all about the coming slaughter of Jerusalem ~ 70 AD as is Isa 65:12-14. In all OT examples, the "Day of the Lord" was accompanied by the presence of God to execute judgment upon Egypt, Babylon and Edom. The "Day of Christ" was Christ's presence come to execute judgment upon rejecting Jerusalem just as He stated He would do over, and over and over.
I don't understand why nobody has a problem with God appearing to punish in the OT in at least 3 occasions, but cannot come to grips with the idea that Christ did it once in 70 AD. After all, Jerusalem was the city He founded when He came as Melchizedek (Salem). They are the ones who rejected Him as their king, killed Him and then worshiped another King.
I don't understand why nobody has a problem with God appearing to punish in the OT in at least 3 occasions, but cannot come to grips with the idea that Christ did it once in 70 AD. After all, Jerusalem was the city He founded when He came as Melchizedek (Salem). They are the ones who rejected Him as their king, killed Him and then worshiped another King.