The Rapture
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You apparently can't get out of the physical world either. Whose thousand years are they, yours or Gods?
For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The throne is in heaven, the earth is His footstool. Good luck trying to tie time in heaven to time on earth.
For a thousand years in Your sight Are like yesterday when it is past, And like a watch in the night.
But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
The throne is in heaven, the earth is His footstool. Good luck trying to tie time in heaven to time on earth.
That does not sound too good. I thought God revealed us everything from beginning to the end!
Well I tried, I realize now this is a waste of time, neither of us is going to change our minds. We are operating on different planets, good thing is my planet is more populated and agrees with all christian churches and creeds that JESUS IS COMING AGAIN! Also this thing where you tell us constantly that we cannot get out of the physical is again more gnosticism, where everything is spiritual and nothing is ever physical. Jesus came physically the first time and will do so again.
God bless you anyhow, hopefully something will convince you.
Well I tried, I realize now this is a waste of time, neither of us is going to change our minds. We are operating on different planets, good thing is my planet is more populated and agrees with all christian churches and creeds that JESUS IS COMING AGAIN! Also this thing where you tell us constantly that we cannot get out of the physical is again more gnosticism, where everything is spiritual and nothing is ever physical. Jesus came physically the first time and will do so again.
God bless you anyhow, hopefully something will convince you.
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H
That's like walking up to a ball game where the pitcher is warming up and saying ;"we have to declare the game has started. No way out,end of story,the game,as anyone can see has started,period"
Every single post trib point is incredibly rediculous.
You guys have ABSOLUTELY no point.
Where you fail is in laying it out,side by side,the two views.
SIDE BY SIDE.
You think cliches override PURPOSE and one verse cancels 3.
No offense,but not only is your method laughable,but what do you hope to gain????
And what motivates you to TIRELESSLY misconstrue Gods word.
If that weren't bad enough,I sit and watch you guys get flustered over people like me that SHOW you verses and dynamics APART FROM your deal,and you pooo pooo those verses.
Every single post trib point is incredibly rediculous.
You guys have ABSOLUTELY no point.
Where you fail is in laying it out,side by side,the two views.
SIDE BY SIDE.
You think cliches override PURPOSE and one verse cancels 3.
No offense,but not only is your method laughable,but what do you hope to gain????
And what motivates you to TIRELESSLY misconstrue Gods word.
If that weren't bad enough,I sit and watch you guys get flustered over people like me that SHOW you verses and dynamics APART FROM your deal,and you pooo pooo those verses.
Jesus is King and He is reigning over us now from heaven. Just about every worship song we sing has this theme in it. The kingdom came without observation yet you still think you will see it come visibly in the future?
[SUP]7 [/SUP]but in the days of the sounding of the seventh angel, when he is about to sound, the mystery of God would be finished, as He declared to His servants the prophets.
The seventh trumpet sounded in 70 AD. All the mysteries about the Kingdom and of God were finished. The prophets foretold things, many which were mysteries to be revealed in Christ, which they were. Others dealt with the end of the Law and their nation and the establishment of the new earth age and new covenant, the one we are in now.
Are you still waiting to become part of the Bride? I'm not. You are still waiting for the restoration of earthly things having missed out on the restoration of the really important things. Have you not read Acts 3?
[SUP]18 [/SUP]But those things which God foretold by the mouth of all His prophets, that the Christ would suffer, He has thus fulfilled. [SUP]19 [/SUP]Repent therefore and be converted, that your sins may be blotted out, so that times of refreshing may come from the presence of the Lord, [SUP]20 [/SUP]and that He may send Jesus Christ, who was preached to you before, [SUP]21 [/SUP]whom heaven must receive until the times of restoration of all things (in 70 AD when the Law passed away), which God has spoken by the mouth of all His holy prophets since the world began. [SUP]22 [/SUP]For Moses truly said to the fathers, ‘The Lord your God will raise up for you a Prophet like me from your brethren. Him you shall hear in all things, whatever He says to you. [SUP]23 [/SUP]And it shall be that every soul who will not hear that Prophet shall be utterly destroyed from among the people.’ (which happened in 70 AD. No unbelieving Jew was left) [SUP]24 [/SUP]Yes, and all the prophets, from Samuel and those who follow, as many as have spoken, have also foretold these days. [SUP]25 [/SUP]You are sons of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying to Abraham, ‘And in your seed all the families of the earth shall be blessed.’ [SUP]26 [/SUP]To you first, God, having raised up His Servant Jesus, sent Him to bless you, in turning away every one of you from your iniquities.”
Have you not compared that to Rev 10 (which I quoted above) or to 2 Cor 5 below:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
We have already been made new creations, us NOT THE PLANET!! What are you waiting for?? Sadly you and many others still think Christ has more work to do with this rock we live on. You are all waiting for the restoration of this wicked planet instead of the restoration of your souls. Don't you know that we are already part of the new spiritual temple? Don't you know we already have a place prepared for us in heavenly Jerusalem? We are not citizens of this dusty rock anymore. Stop waiting for some rock to be restored and set your sites on our true residence.
I've read most of the earliest writings from the early church, the ones after 70 AD. None speak of a return of Christ. They only speak of themselves going to be with the Lord after they die. The beliefs of most 21st century churches so far removed from the old teachings is sad but I'm not going to go along with the errors of the masses just as I wouldn't jump off a cliff because everyone else is doing it.
Okay, I've got to work now. You guys go back to your fantasy world.
Fantasy world? What? Nobody believes like you do PlainWord. This is a strange doctrine and this rock the planet is good, there is nothing wrong with the planet itself, it is the sin and curse within it that is the problem.
Blessed are the meek they shall inherit the earth. - The truth is that this world will be reconciled as well. Restoration of all things it says, yet you add (happened in 70 AD when the law passed away) which is just made up, that is not what it means. I doubt anyone who reads that verse thinks that all things refer to a destruction of a city and a temple, kind of lame use of the phrase "all things" there.
Blessed are the meek they shall inherit the earth. - The truth is that this world will be reconciled as well. Restoration of all things it says, yet you add (happened in 70 AD when the law passed away) which is just made up, that is not what it means. I doubt anyone who reads that verse thinks that all things refer to a destruction of a city and a temple, kind of lame use of the phrase "all things" there.
FOR THOSE WHO BELIEVE THE CHURCH GOES THROUGH
THE TRIBULATION, protected from harm.
The following verses will show you that even the Tribulation Saints who are NOT already beheaded before WRATH, will see and feel that Wrath of GOD being poured out on the Earth. The Faithful True Believers who were READY and Expecting the Bridegroom, will be spared that WRATH experience, by being invited/raptured (CALLED OUT OF EARTH) to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven ahead of that time, AND THE 144,000 BELIEVING JEWS WHO WERE SEALED FROM HARM, WILL BE IMMUNE FROM THAT WRATH, everyone else world wide will experience that WRATH IN IT'S FULL FURY. I REPEAT, THE NON-READY VIRGINS WHO MISSED THE BRIDEGROOM COMING, WILL SEE AND FEEL THAT WRATH BEING POURED OUT, UNLESS THEY ARE BEHEADED, FOR REFUSING THE MARK OF THE BEAST, BEFORE GOD STARTS POURING OUT HIS WRATH.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
EVERYONE: File that verse 10 in your memory, as absolute PROOF that sleeping in the grave until the second coming is a TOTAL LIE. Our human spirit goes to Heaven the very moment we die, IF WE ARE TRUE BELIEVERS. For those who are NOT true Believers, DEATH is NOT an Escape to the grave, but RATHER THE BEGINNING OF JUSTLY DESERVED PUNISHMENT.
Psalm 146:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.
Revelation 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
NOW, with it referring specifically those DWELLING ON THE EARTH, it not only refers to everyone who literally is dwelling on the earth {except the 144,000}, but it also implies that at that time, there will be those of us, WHO ARE NO LONGER DWELLING ON THE EARTH. That clearly indicates that at the HOUR HE starts pouring out HIS WRATH, those who were Ready and Watching for the Bridegroom, WILL ALREADY BE AT THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB, and NO LONGER DWELLING ON THE EARTH.
THE TRIBULATION, protected from harm.
The following verses will show you that even the Tribulation Saints who are NOT already beheaded before WRATH, will see and feel that Wrath of GOD being poured out on the Earth. The Faithful True Believers who were READY and Expecting the Bridegroom, will be spared that WRATH experience, by being invited/raptured (CALLED OUT OF EARTH) to go to the Wedding of the Lamb in Heaven ahead of that time, AND THE 144,000 BELIEVING JEWS WHO WERE SEALED FROM HARM, WILL BE IMMUNE FROM THAT WRATH, everyone else world wide will experience that WRATH IN IT'S FULL FURY. I REPEAT, THE NON-READY VIRGINS WHO MISSED THE BRIDEGROOM COMING, WILL SEE AND FEEL THAT WRATH BEING POURED OUT, UNLESS THEY ARE BEHEADED, FOR REFUSING THE MARK OF THE BEAST, BEFORE GOD STARTS POURING OUT HIS WRATH.
1 Thessalonians 5:9-10 (NASB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For God has not destined us for wrath, but for obtaining salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
[SUP]10 [/SUP] who died for us, so that whether we are awake or asleep, we will live together with Him.
EVERYONE: File that verse 10 in your memory, as absolute PROOF that sleeping in the grave until the second coming is a TOTAL LIE. Our human spirit goes to Heaven the very moment we die, IF WE ARE TRUE BELIEVERS. For those who are NOT true Believers, DEATH is NOT an Escape to the grave, but RATHER THE BEGINNING OF JUSTLY DESERVED PUNISHMENT.
Psalm 146:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] His spirit departs, he returns to the earth; In that very day his thoughts perish.
Revelation 3:10 (NASB)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] 'Because you have kept the word of My perseverance, I also will keep you from the hour of testing, that hour which is about to come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on the earth.
NOW, with it referring specifically those DWELLING ON THE EARTH, it not only refers to everyone who literally is dwelling on the earth {except the 144,000}, but it also implies that at that time, there will be those of us, WHO ARE NO LONGER DWELLING ON THE EARTH. That clearly indicates that at the HOUR HE starts pouring out HIS WRATH, those who were Ready and Watching for the Bridegroom, WILL ALREADY BE AT THE WEDDING OF THE LAMB, and NO LONGER DWELLING ON THE EARTH.
I hope none of us are surprised, because we were warned that the FALSE TEACHERS would be here.
Matthew 24:21-27 (NASB)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "For then there will be a great tribulation, such as has not occurred since the beginning of the world until now, nor ever will.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] "Unless those days had been cut short, no life would have been saved; but for the sake of the elect those days will be cut short.
[SUP]23 [/SUP] "Then if anyone says to you, 'Behold, here is the Christ,' or 'There He is,'
do not believe him.
[SUP]24 [/SUP] "For false Christs and false prophets will arise and will show great signs and wonders, so as to mislead, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] "Behold, I have told you in advance.
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "So if they say to you, 'Behold, He is in the wilderness,' do not go out, or, 'Behold, He is in the inner rooms,' do not believe them.
[SUP]27 [/SUP] "For just as the lightning comes from the east and flashes even to the west, so will the coming of the Son of Man be.
Matthew 7:15-16 (NASB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of the false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] "You will know them by their fruits. Grapes are not gathered from thorn bushes nor figs from thistles, are they?2 Timothy 4:3-4 (ESV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own passions,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander off into myths.
Acts 20:28-30 (ESV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Pay careful attention to yourselves and to all the flock, in which the Holy Spirit has made you overseers, to care for the church of God, which he obtained with his own blood.
[SUP]29 [/SUP] I know that after my departure fierce wolves will come in among you, not sparing the flock;
[SUP]30 [/SUP] and from among your own selves will arise men speaking twisted things, to draw away the disciples after them.
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Jackson123, what site or software are you trying to copy the verses from?
I know a link to FREE BIBLE Libary Software Program that works perfectly and under the HELP on the Menu Bar they have links to their online Video Tutorials to teach you how to use the Software. The PLUS is there are over 200 FREE Books you can pick through to choose which ones you want to download. Everything from additional Bibles, Study Helps, Comentaries, Maps, Classic Christian books like Pilgrams Progress, etc. Yes the Free Books are mostly the older books no longer CopyWrited; however even Holman's Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) is one of the FREEBIES, and it was first published in 2004.
The FREE program is called WORDsearch BASIC and here is the Link:
https://www.wordsearchbible.com/basic
Notice the Program has to be installed before you can download any of the FREE books.
After you install the Program, go back to the same page where you downloaded the Program. Then look up at the menu bar near the top, and you will find the Link to their FREE BOOKS. It is the BEST BIBLE SOFTWARE PROGRAM THAT I HAVE EVER USED, and I have used most of them at one point or other. If you are wanting to add newer books to the library, or upgrade the Program to have more features. WATCH FOR THEIR SALES, they frequently run GREAT SALES. If you have a favorite translation that is not a FREE ONE, their costs are VERY REASONABLE per Translation, $9.95 USD.
FREE ENGLISH VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE INCLUDE: KJV, ASV, BBE, CT-NT, CSB, DBY, GWT, HCSB, KJV+Apocypha, MACE-NT, Wesley's-NT, Weymouth's-NT, and YLT.
Honest, it is all FREE, except those books that still have a copywrite on them.
The FREE Commentaries are:
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
Matthew Henry's Unabridged Commentary
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary
Unfortunately that is about it for the Free Commentaries. I warn you some of the Commentaries ARE TOTALLY REDICULOUS on their Prices. It just depends on the Author. When you find a 20% off coupon (the sales and coupons open up on the Programs home page), and you want to add a very good Commentary, I have found the one called "BELIEVER'S BIBLE COMMENTARY" to be VERY USEFUL, and it normally sells for $39.95, but I found it was on sale one month for 10 dollars less than that. I have found the one from Dallas Theological Seminary, "BIBLE KNOWLEDGE COMMENTARY" to be some what reasonable and VERY HELPFUL also, WHEN YOU CAN GET IT ON SALE.
I know a link to FREE BIBLE Libary Software Program that works perfectly and under the HELP on the Menu Bar they have links to their online Video Tutorials to teach you how to use the Software. The PLUS is there are over 200 FREE Books you can pick through to choose which ones you want to download. Everything from additional Bibles, Study Helps, Comentaries, Maps, Classic Christian books like Pilgrams Progress, etc. Yes the Free Books are mostly the older books no longer CopyWrited; however even Holman's Christian Standard Bible (HCSB) is one of the FREEBIES, and it was first published in 2004.
The FREE program is called WORDsearch BASIC and here is the Link:
https://www.wordsearchbible.com/basic
Notice the Program has to be installed before you can download any of the FREE books.
After you install the Program, go back to the same page where you downloaded the Program. Then look up at the menu bar near the top, and you will find the Link to their FREE BOOKS. It is the BEST BIBLE SOFTWARE PROGRAM THAT I HAVE EVER USED, and I have used most of them at one point or other. If you are wanting to add newer books to the library, or upgrade the Program to have more features. WATCH FOR THEIR SALES, they frequently run GREAT SALES. If you have a favorite translation that is not a FREE ONE, their costs are VERY REASONABLE per Translation, $9.95 USD.
FREE ENGLISH VERSIONS OF THE BIBLE INCLUDE: KJV, ASV, BBE, CT-NT, CSB, DBY, GWT, HCSB, KJV+Apocypha, MACE-NT, Wesley's-NT, Weymouth's-NT, and YLT.
Honest, it is all FREE, except those books that still have a copywrite on them.
The FREE Commentaries are:
Matthew Henry's Concise Commentary
Matthew Henry's Unabridged Commentary
Jamieson-Fausset-Brown Commentary
Unfortunately that is about it for the Free Commentaries. I warn you some of the Commentaries ARE TOTALLY REDICULOUS on their Prices. It just depends on the Author. When you find a 20% off coupon (the sales and coupons open up on the Programs home page), and you want to add a very good Commentary, I have found the one called "BELIEVER'S BIBLE COMMENTARY" to be VERY USEFUL, and it normally sells for $39.95, but I found it was on sale one month for 10 dollars less than that. I have found the one from Dallas Theological Seminary, "BIBLE KNOWLEDGE COMMENTARY" to be some what reasonable and VERY HELPFUL also, WHEN YOU CAN GET IT ON SALE.
YEAH, and the first dove released, had to make NOAH a little nervous.
Genesis 8:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] but the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark; for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: and he put forth his hand, and took her, and brought her in unto him into the ark.
BUT THE SECOND ONE WITH AN OLIVE LEAF IN IT'S MOUTH, HAD TO BE A JOY TO SEE.
Genesis 8:10-11 (ASV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and the dove came in to him at eventide; and, lo, in her mouth an olive-leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Genesis 8:9 (ASV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] but the dove found no rest for the sole of her foot, and she returned unto him to the ark; for the waters were on the face of the whole earth: and he put forth his hand, and took her, and brought her in unto him into the ark.
BUT THE SECOND ONE WITH AN OLIVE LEAF IN IT'S MOUTH, HAD TO BE A JOY TO SEE.
Genesis 8:10-11 (ASV)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] And he stayed yet other seven days; and again he sent forth the dove out of the ark;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and the dove came in to him at eventide; and, lo, in her mouth an olive-leaf plucked off: so Noah knew that the waters were abated from off the earth.
Are judgment and wrath the same thing? Many seem to think they are and base their theology on that.
judg·ment
ˈjəjmənt/
noun
plural noun: judgments
wrath
raTH/
noun
noun: wrath; plural noun: wraths
judg·ment
ˈjəjmənt/
noun
plural noun: judgments
- 1.
the ability to make considered decisions or come to sensible conclusions.
"an error of judgment"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]discernment, acumen, shrewdness, astuteness, sense, common sense, perception, perspicacity, percipience, acuity, discrimination, reckoning, wisdom, wit, judiciousness, prudence, canniness, sharpness, sharp-wittedness, powers of reasoning, reason, logic; More[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
wrath
raTH/
noun
noun: wrath; plural noun: wraths
- extreme anger (chiefly used for humorous or rhetorical effect).
"he hid his pipe for fear of incurring his father's wrath"
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]synonyms:[/TD]
[TD]anger, rage, fury, outrage, spleen, vexation, (high) dudgeon, crossness, displeasure, annoyance, irritation; Moreliteraryire, choler
"I refuse to subject myself any longer to her wrath"
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: vk_tbl vk_gy"]
[TR]
[TD="class: lr_dct_nyms_ttl"]antonyms:[/TD]
[TD]happiness[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
When God got mad at Baal-Peor and sent a pestilence into the camp, was he hopping mad, or was he judging Israel's apostasy?
Well both obviously. He is a jealous God.
It is like if a man cheats on his wife, and she denies him the marital bed for a year.
Is she hopping mad, or is she punishing him?
Both.
Well both obviously. He is a jealous God.
It is like if a man cheats on his wife, and she denies him the marital bed for a year.
Is she hopping mad, or is she punishing him?
Both.
Pre tribbers use the types in the Bible to support their belief in a Pre Trib Rapture and yet maintain that the Jews and so called Tribulation Saints remain on earth during the tribulation.
Whether they are aware of this or not the truth is that the Pre Trib rapture is a device to maintain the false premise that there are two different paths to salvation for Jews and Gentiles as according to Darby who created the whole Dispensational baggage. His version goes that the Jews rejected Jesus offer to set up his kingdom so God created the Church and let it run for two thousand plus years until such time as he would turn his attention back to them again. To do this he removes the Church from the scene at the tribulation which in part is to force the Jews to return to him. Having two separate plans of salvation goes against everything Paul and others said about salvation through Christ. It also results in very few Christians sharing the Gospel with Jews and so condemning many of them to a Godless eternity.
Whether they are aware of this or not the truth is that the Pre Trib rapture is a device to maintain the false premise that there are two different paths to salvation for Jews and Gentiles as according to Darby who created the whole Dispensational baggage. His version goes that the Jews rejected Jesus offer to set up his kingdom so God created the Church and let it run for two thousand plus years until such time as he would turn his attention back to them again. To do this he removes the Church from the scene at the tribulation which in part is to force the Jews to return to him. Having two separate plans of salvation goes against everything Paul and others said about salvation through Christ. It also results in very few Christians sharing the Gospel with Jews and so condemning many of them to a Godless eternity.