Not By Works

[FranC]

When you do it out of love and adoration and worship of God through the Holy Spirit,
Just like how congregating on the 1st day of the week is spiritual when done for that reason.
We know exactly what the Jews were to do on the Sabbath. The law tells us. And it does include congregating:

Leviticus 23:3 NIV
3“ ‘There are six days when you may work, but the seventh day is a day of sabbath rest, a day of sacred assembly.

We do this on Sunday rather than on the designated Sabbath day now because the Catholics decided in their presumed Papal authority that it will be that way now rather than on the 7th day. They eventually declared that observing the ceremonial law of Moses was categorically and without exception 'anathema'. They did that out of envy of parishioners who were observing the Jewish meeting times and practices in preference to their invented meeting schedules and practices.

It's interesting to note that many of the church's doctrines like OSAS, predestination, and H-grace have their foundation in the church because of this single failure to understand the role of the law in New Covenant life. It all boils down to the church's lack of understanding about Paul's grace vs. law teaching. It has produced so many erroneous doctrines in the church. But I think this failure serves a purpose, like when the Samaritans broke off from Judaism and divided the ten tribes away from Israel into a polluted version of Judaism. In regard to this present Covenant, God is allowing the gentiles to do damage to the law to provoke the Jews to be zealous for the law. Imagine the consternation of a devout Orthodox Jew who sees us stupid gentiles change the Passover into a celebration centered around the practices of Ishtar a pagan goddess.

Hi PHart,

Regarding the assembling of ourselves, besides Hebrews 10:24-25, I also had found this which is in the Didache, written and taught by the Apostles most probably by the year 95 AD. :

1. On the Lord's Day of the Lord come together, break bread and hold Eucharist, after confessing your transgressions that your offering may be pure;
(part XIV)


and


2. But be frequently gathered together seeking the things which are profitable for your souls, for the whole time of your faith shall not profit you except ye be found perfect at the last time;
(part XVI)

I don't know if someone mentioned Acts 20:7. Paul broke bread on the first day of the week, which was Sunday.

And Ignatius of Antioch, a student of John the Apostle said this:


Ignatius of Antioch

If, therefore, those who were brought up in the ancient order of things have come to the possession of a new hope, no longer observing the Sabbath, but living in the observance of the Lord’s Day, on which also our life has sprung up again by Him and by His death—whom some deny, by which mystery we have obtained faith, and therefore endure, that we may be found the disciples of Jesus Christ, our only Master
(Letter to the Magnesians(shorter) Chapter IX.—Let us live with Christ [A.D. 110]).

During the Sabbath He continued under the earth in the tomb in which Joseph of Arimathæa had laid Him. At the dawning of the Lord’s day He arose from the dead, according to what was spoken by Himself, “As Jonah was three days and three nights in the whale’s belly, so shall the Son of man also be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.” The day of the preparation, then, comprises the passion; the Sabbath embraces the burial; the Lord’s Day contains the resurrection
(The Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians Longer Versions. Chapter IX.—Reference to the history of Christ.)

 

[Desertsrose]

Now go to to chapter 2 to see the compare contrast....

Chapter 2 doesn't negate the meaning of Chapter 1.

The power of God still brings salvation to the Jew/Gentile. Wether Jew or Gentile, the just will live by faith. All is still all who suppress the truth in unrightousness.

And the all still are .......without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

 

[Gabriel2020]

Amen ROMANS; 7; 12; Wherefore the law is holy,and the commandments holy,and just,and good. The law was ineffective in the state of a sinful nature, but by the dwelling of the holy spirit, the law is alive and well. Those in darkness cannot keep the law, therefore it is a curse to them. Only the holy ones with God's spirit in them can keep the law that is in their hearts.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Amen ROMANS; 7; 12; Wherefore the law is holy,and the commandments holy,and just,and good. The law was ineffective in the state of a sinful nature, but by the dwelling of the holy spirit, the law is alive and well. Those in darkness cannot keep the law, therefore it is a curse to them. Only the holy ones with God's spirit in them can keep the law that is in their hearts.

You can not keep the law. If you think you can, your as misguided as the pharisee who thought they could.

No one can keep the law. Thats why Christ had to come remove the curse of the law from us, Because we can not keep it.

 

[Magenta]

No, I do not not...this is because the first 5 of the 10 show us how to relate to God and the other 5 of the 10 shows us how to relate to each other....

The law of sin and death is not governed by the 10...it is a spiritual death as well as physical death...because it is largely a spiritual law...I cannot state it hangs on any of the 10...Romans 1 & 2 says men know God and chose to do their own thing and are without excuse and that a Gentile will perish without the law...because they are a law unto themselves..

Romans 2.12-16

[SUP]12[/SUP]For all who have sinned without the Law will also perish without the Law, and all who have sinned under the Law will be judged by the Law; [SUP]13 [/SUP]for it is not the hearers of the Law who are just before God, but the doers of the Law will be justified. [SUP]14 [/SUP]For when Gentiles who do not have the Law do instinctively the things of the Law, these, not having the Law, are a law to themselves, [SUP]15 [/SUP]in that they show the work of the Law written in their hearts, their conscience bearing witness and their thoughts alternately accusing or else defending them, [SUP]16 [/SUP]on the day when, according to my gospel, God will judge the secrets of men through Christ Jesus.


The law of sin and death hangs onto the hearts of men, who do not believe...

Dear Meggido, do please excuse me for saying that your answer seems contradictory. First you say no, the law of sin and death does not hang on the ten because the first few of the ten commandments have to do with our relationship with God, but then you turn around and say they are condemned exactly because they refuse to acknowledge God even though they are without excuse to do so (as per Romans one). Do you see what I mean? Yes, the rest of the ten have to do with our relations with others, and as I have already said, and I am sure you would agree also, these are summed up in one word, for love does not lie, cheat, steal, or commit adultery; love does no harm to others and thus fulfills all the law and all the prophets, amen and thank you Jesus

 

[Nehemiah6]

You can not keep the law. If you think you can, your as misguided as the pharisee who thought they could.

This should be qualified by saying "You cannot keep the Law by your own strength, but by the power of the Holy Spirit". The Ten Commandments have now become the Law of Christ, which is also the Law of Love. So when God's agape love works through Christians by the power of the Holy Spirit, you are indeed keeping the Law. Please note carefully (Romans 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Sinners are saved by grace through faith, but after that they are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts as indicated in Titus 2:11,12: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; This is an application of the Law of Christ.

 

[dcontroversal]

You can not keep the law. If you think you can, your as misguided as the pharisee who thought they could.

No one can keep the law. Thats why Christ had to come remove the curse of the law from us, Because we can not keep it.

If men could keep the law there was no reason for Jesus to nail it to the cross and give up his life to redeem men....and the bible is clear....

works of the law or grace......one or the other....a blending of both to gain, keep or embellish salvation = deceived, foolish and no power from a double cursed false gospel.......

 

[BillG]

This should be qualified by saying "You cannot keep the Law by your own strength, but by the power of the Holy Spirit". The Ten Commandments have now become the Law of Christ, which is also the Law of Love. So when God's agape love works through Christians by the power of the Holy Spirit, you are indeed keeping the Law. Please note carefully (Romans 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Sinners are saved by grace through faith, but after that they are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts as indicated in Titus 2:11,12: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; This is an application of the Law of Christ.

Interesting though that it's by the power of the Holy Spirit and it's all about love.
Love for God and love for others.

The Holy Spirit working in us.
Two new commandments sum up the ten which the Lord places in our heart because we are his children.

 

[Meggido]

Dear Lord, We hold this day up to you, and pray that by your mercy you please keep the KJV'only people out of this OP. We ask this in Jesus Name, Amen!

mag started it

 

[AllenW]

Hi, I've been away since page 6.
Did I miss anything?

 

[BillG]

Hi, I've been away since page 6.
Did I miss anything?

Did you miss me?

 

[dcontroversal]

Interesting though that it's by the power of the Holy Spirit and it's all about love.
Love for God and love for others.

The Holy Spirit working in us.
Two new commandments sum up the ten which the Lord places in our heart because we are his children.

I heard that.........makes me think of Sodom, and Abraham begging God to spare it if it had xxx amount of righteous men in it....even saved men have a hard time keeping just the 2 listed I the N.T.............thank God for mercy and the out bounding grace of God..........!!

 

[Desertsrose]

This should be qualified by saying "You cannot keep the Law by your own strength, but by the power of the Holy Spirit". The Ten Commandments have now become the Law of Christ, which is also the Law of Love. So when God's agape love works through Christians by the power of the Holy Spirit, you are indeed keeping the Law. Please note carefully (Romans 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Sinners are saved by grace through faith, but after that they are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts as indicated in Titus 2:11,12: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; This is an application of the Law of Christ.

Amen, Nehemiah!

I was trying to think of a way to say that the Law is not dead (being it lives in our hearts) in a way others would understand, and you said it very well!

 

[Meggido]

Chapter 2 doesn't negate the meaning of Chapter 1.

The power of God still brings salvation to the Jew/Gentile. Wether Jew or Gentile, the just will live by faith. All is still all who suppress the truth in unrightousness.

And the all still are .......without understanding, untrustworthy, unloving, unmerciful; and although they know the ordinance of God, that those who practice such things are worthy of death, they not only do the same, but also give hearty approval to those who practice them.

All good DR...

 

[eternally-gratefull]

This should be qualified by saying "You cannot keep the Law by your own strength, but by the power of the Holy Spirit". The Ten Commandments have now become the Law of Christ, which is also the Law of Love. So when God's agape love works through Christians by the power of the Holy Spirit, you are indeed keeping the Law. Please note carefully (Romans 13:8-10):

Owe no man any thing, but to love one another: for he that loveth another hath fulfilled the law.For this, Thou shalt not commit adultery, Thou shalt not kill, Thou shalt not steal, Thou shalt not bear false witness, Thou shalt not covet; and if there be any other commandment, it is briefly comprehended in this saying, namely, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. Love worketh no ill to his neighbour: therefore love is the fulfilling of the law.

Sinners are saved by grace through faith, but after that they are to deny ungodliness and worldly lusts as indicated in Titus 2:11,12: For the grace of God that bringeth salvation hath appeared to all men,Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; This is an application of the Law of Christ.

No, I meant what I said, You can not keep the law as God requires, Perfect. Without sin, Not even breaking the least of all the commands, or as James said, you are guilty of the law.

 

[Desertsrose]

If men could keep the law there was no reason for Jesus to nail it to the cross and give up his life to redeem men....and the bible is clear....

works of the law or grace......one or the other....a blending of both to gain, keep or embellish salvation = deceived, foolish and no power from a double cursed false gospel.......

Hi Dcon,

The law has not been nailed to the cross. All the laws you've broken have been written down as a testimony against you.......those have been nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

Jesus gave his life on the cross to redeem us from the curse of the law, not the law itself. The law can't save, it can only show us our sin.

So now that we've been born again, we are no longer under the law, but instead through the grace of God, He enables us to obey the righteous requirements of the law.

Romans 8:3,4
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:26, 27 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Hi Dcon,

The law has not been nailed to the cross. All the laws you've broken have been written down as a testimony against you.......those have been nailed to the cross, not the law itself.

Jesus gave his life on the cross to redeem us from the curse of the law, not the law itself. The law can't save, it can only show us our sin.

So now that we've been born again, we are no longer under the law, but instead through the grace of God, He enables us to obey the righteous requirements of the law.

Romans 8:3,4
For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

Romans 2:26, 27 For what the Law could not do, weak as it was through the flesh, God did: sending His own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh and as an offering for sin, He condemned sin in the flesh, so that the requirement of the Law might be fulfilled in us, who do not walk according to the flesh but according to the Spirit.

And he who is physically uncircumcised, if he keeps the Law, will he not judge you who though having the letter of the Law and circumcision are a transgressor of the Law?

The penalty of the law has been nailed to the cross.

If not, we are all doomed.

 

[JIMBO43]

Here you go...

Gal 3:24
Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.

No one says we do not need to have faith. In fact it is only by Faith that God puts His Laws in our heart so that we can follow Him through Love (Heb 8:10-12) Faith does not replace God's Law it establishes it in the heart of the believer

amen mr sabbath

 

[BillG]

I heard that.........makes me think of Sodom, and Abraham begging God to spare it if it had xxx amount of righteous men in it....even saved men have a hard time keeping just the 2 listed I the N.T.............thank God for mercy and the out bounding grace of God..........!!

The whole concourse between Abraham and God. I love it.
We find God saying "Shall I hide from Abraham what I am about do?
Then we find God tells him and Abraham responds with 50 righteous people, and it goes down to ten.

What amazes me is God is willing to tell Abraham and willing to listen and grant his requests.

What I find interesting is that Abraham leaves it up to God who is righteous.
It seems that righteousness was obviously apparent at that time.

Hmm given that there was no law in place one would consider why?

Answers on a postcard please.

Who is it that declares someone righteous?
Why is that the case?

 

[Desertsrose]

The penalty of the law has been nailed to the cross.

If not, we are all doomed.

Hi EG,

Here's how Paul said it in Colossians.

He made you alive together with Him, having forgiven us all our transgressions, having canceled out the certificate of debt consisting of decrees against us, which was hostile to us; and He has taken it out of the way, having nailed it to the cross.

Remember that old song: He paid a debt He did not owe I owed I debt I could not pay, I needed someone to take my sins away ayeah..... Maybe I'm showing my age.

So we owed a debt for our transgressions which is death. The wages of sin is death. The penalty of the law is death as you said.

Jesus paid our debt in full and he nailed that certificate of debt to the cross. It's dead and can never accuse us again of our sins that Jesus has forgiven us for.

However you want to say that about the certificate of death is fine .....my point is that the law itself has not been nailed to the cross.