The Rapture
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12 And at that time (AD30-73) shall Michael stand up, the great prince which standeth for the children of thy people: and there shall be a time of trouble, (AD 67-73) such as never was since there was a nation even to that same time: and at that time thy people shall be delivered, (Remnant Of Israel - Romans 11:5) every one that shall be found written in the book (Rev3:5).
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.(Matt 27:52) 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament (Church); and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
2 And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.(Matt 27:52) 3 And they that be wise shall shine as the brightness of the firmament (Church); and they that turn many to righteousness as the stars for ever and ever.
Actually, correction. Michael appears when Herod dies, so really that period starts in 4BC.
Michael means "who is like God", and sar translated Prince means Captain.
So it may well be Christ that Daniel is talking about here.
[FONT="]9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.[/FONT]
Michael means "who is like God", and sar translated Prince means Captain.
So it may well be Christ that Daniel is talking about here.
[FONT="]9 But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.10 For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings.[/FONT]
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Your view has every believer from the first martyr Stephen until now who have died in Christ stuck in the ground with their formless souls in heaven waiting for some future resurrection before they can be reunited with their new spiritual body. Your view requires that they all wait for their rewards as you cannot wear a crown without a head, nor can you put on a white robe without a body.
My view has Christ preaching to the dead stuck in Hades when He was dead for 3 days. Then when He returned in 66 AD, He shouted out to the dead and those who heard His voice, their souls where released and new invisible spiritual body and soul went to heaven. Now, since this event, when a believer dies, he/she immediately steps out of their flesh body and rise in their new invisible spiritual body and ascend straight to heaven where they immediately stand before Christ and are judged and receive their reward(s).
I'd argue that my view is more preferable. As you point out, there are rooms (mansions) built for us in heaven. Formless souls don't need rooms, bodies do. All the evidence of those who've had near death experiences and gone briefly to heaven support my view, not yours. They see their loved ones fit, young 30ish and dressed in white, just as we see in Rev 7 and 19.
But, let's not take my word for it. I'm just another jerk with an opinion. Let's see what those who witnessed the martyrdom of Polycarp who was burned alive by the Romans in the early second century recorded at the time:
Polycarp 14:2
I bless Thee for that Thou hast granted me this day and hour, that I might receive a portion amongst the number of martyrs in the cup of [Thy] Christ unto resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and of body, in the incorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. May I be received among these in Thy presence this day, as a rich and acceptable sacrifice, as Thou didst prepare and reveal it beforehand, and hast accomplished it, Thou that art the faithful and true God.
Polycarp 19:2
Having by his endurance overcome the unrighteous ruler in the conflict and so received the crown of immortality, he rejoiceth in company with the Apostles and all righteous men, and glorifieth the Almighty God and Father, and blesseth our Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of our souls and helmsman of our bodies and shepherd of the universal Church which is throughout the world.
It sure seems like he thought he was going immediately, BODY AND SOUL, to heaven and would immediately receive his crown. That's how I read it anyway.
My view has Christ preaching to the dead stuck in Hades when He was dead for 3 days. Then when He returned in 66 AD, He shouted out to the dead and those who heard His voice, their souls where released and new invisible spiritual body and soul went to heaven. Now, since this event, when a believer dies, he/she immediately steps out of their flesh body and rise in their new invisible spiritual body and ascend straight to heaven where they immediately stand before Christ and are judged and receive their reward(s).
I'd argue that my view is more preferable. As you point out, there are rooms (mansions) built for us in heaven. Formless souls don't need rooms, bodies do. All the evidence of those who've had near death experiences and gone briefly to heaven support my view, not yours. They see their loved ones fit, young 30ish and dressed in white, just as we see in Rev 7 and 19.
But, let's not take my word for it. I'm just another jerk with an opinion. Let's see what those who witnessed the martyrdom of Polycarp who was burned alive by the Romans in the early second century recorded at the time:
Polycarp 14:2
I bless Thee for that Thou hast granted me this day and hour, that I might receive a portion amongst the number of martyrs in the cup of [Thy] Christ unto resurrection of eternal life, both of soul and of body, in the incorruptibility of the Holy Spirit. May I be received among these in Thy presence this day, as a rich and acceptable sacrifice, as Thou didst prepare and reveal it beforehand, and hast accomplished it, Thou that art the faithful and true God.
Polycarp 19:2
Having by his endurance overcome the unrighteous ruler in the conflict and so received the crown of immortality, he rejoiceth in company with the Apostles and all righteous men, and glorifieth the Almighty God and Father, and blesseth our Lord Jesus Christ, the savior of our souls and helmsman of our bodies and shepherd of the universal Church which is throughout the world.
It sure seems like he thought he was going immediately, BODY AND SOUL, to heaven and would immediately receive his crown. That's how I read it anyway.
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A Jewish Bridegroom is Married by the acceptance of the Proposal, (DRINKING FROM THE CUP). BUT THE WEDDING CEREMONY IS ALWAYS AFTER THE MANDATORY SEPERATION PERIOD, DURING WHICH THE BRIDEGROOM BUILDS A NEW DWELLING PLACE FOR HIS BRIDE, IN HIS FATHER'S HOUSE OR VERY NEAR TO IT. IT IS NOT LIKE OUR WEDDINGS HERE IN THE USA.
WE ARE STILL IN THE MANDATORY SEPERATION PERIOD.
ONLY THE FATHER CAN DECIDE WHEN THE SON IS DONE WORKING ON THE NEW DWELLING PLACE FOR HIS BRIDE.
WE ARE STILL IN THE MANDATORY SEPERATION PERIOD.
ONLY THE FATHER CAN DECIDE WHEN THE SON IS DONE WORKING ON THE NEW DWELLING PLACE FOR HIS BRIDE.
Hello Bogadile,
you are correct in that, Daniel 12:2 and matt 27:52 have nothing to do with each other.
Daniel 12:2 is referring to the resurrection of the OT saints at the end age when Christ returns to the earth after the tribulation period.
Matt.27:52 is referring to OT saints who resurrected, but not in their immortal and glorified bodies and they died again. They were resurrected in the same way that Lazarus rose, that being in his mortal body and he also died again.
The only reason that the preterist attempt to make Dan.12:2 and Matt.27:52 is to support their belief that all end-time events took place in or around the destruction of the temple. That said, Matt.27:52 took place after Christ's resurrection and Dan.12:2 is still a future event, taking place at the end of the seven year period when Christ returns.
you are correct in that, Daniel 12:2 and matt 27:52 have nothing to do with each other.
Daniel 12:2 is referring to the resurrection of the OT saints at the end age when Christ returns to the earth after the tribulation period.
Matt.27:52 is referring to OT saints who resurrected, but not in their immortal and glorified bodies and they died again. They were resurrected in the same way that Lazarus rose, that being in his mortal body and he also died again.
The only reason that the preterist attempt to make Dan.12:2 and Matt.27:52 is to support their belief that all end-time events took place in or around the destruction of the temple. That said, Matt.27:52 took place after Christ's resurrection and Dan.12:2 is still a future event, taking place at the end of the seven year period when Christ returns.
This is why it is important to not only know the scriptures but to also study history so that we can know what things are fulfilled. As the Temple was burning, Titus came up to see. His troops took him to the wing of the temple where they placed their ensigns (images of Caesar). They then made a sacrifice to Titus, bowed down and worshiped him and declared him, imperator (an absolute or supreme ruler). This happened 3.5 years into the 7 year Jewish War with the Romans.
According to the Talmud (not that it's a divine record by any means) Titus took a harlot and entered the holy of holies and committed a sinful act there. He then tore the curtain and it bled. He felt at that time that he had killed the God of the Jews. Later, he dared the God of the Jews to fight him.
According to the Talmud (not that it's a divine record by any means) Titus took a harlot and entered the holy of holies and committed a sinful act there. He then tore the curtain and it bled. He felt at that time that he had killed the God of the Jews. Later, he dared the God of the Jews to fight him.
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Absolute unmitigated and unholy codswallop. Daniel records a simultaneous resurrection to glory and to infamy.
2 [FONT="]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[/FONT][FONT="]In Revelation the resurrection to judgement comes 1000 years after the resurrection to glory[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Two completely different events.
I don't know about Futurist for Ahwatukee, more "Bodgerist"
[/FONT]
2 [FONT="]And many of them that sleep in the dust of the earth shall awake, some to everlasting life, and some to shame and everlasting contempt.
[/FONT][FONT="]In Revelation the resurrection to judgement comes 1000 years after the resurrection to glory[/FONT][FONT="]
[/FONT][FONT="]
5 But the rest of the dead lived not again until the thousand years were finished. This is the first resurrection.[/FONT]
[FONT="]6 Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection: on such the second death hath no power, but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.[/FONT]
[FONT="]Two completely different events.
I don't know about Futurist for Ahwatukee, more "Bodgerist"
[/FONT]