A Study of Torah from Gen. - Rev.

[Rainrider]

As we look at Gen.6:3-4 We find some things of interest.
Gen 6:3 And the LORD said, “My Spirit shall not strive with man forever, for he is indeed flesh; yet his days shall be one hundred and twenty years.”

Here we find that man kind is indeed flesh. If looked at from the surface, some may think, "Well ya." This however by almost everyone is not seen in this manner. I think we can all agree that here HaShem is looking at the heart of man, rather than his mortality. This is further backed by verse 5 as well see.

Gen 6:4 There were giants on the earth in those days, and also afterward, when the sons of God came in to the daughters of men and they bore children to them. Those were the mighty men who were of old, men of renown.

As afterward. This I am sure we can all agree is talking of the day's after the flood. Yet is there any other teaching on this out there? I only know of one. It claims that afterward is used to indicate the time that elapsed from the opening of this chapter, until the flood started. As the flood ended all forms of life that were on the earth at that time.
I am sorry I can't help it. I must give my own thoughts on this, as I simply can't sit back and let this form of teaching go unanswered.
If that teach was ever close to right, then I ask, why did HaShem save Noah, and his family? That in of it's self has the ability to carry blood lines through the flood, and hens would negate this kind of teaching, would it not. After all, we know that there were giants in the time of King Davide. As well as when the spies went in to spy out the land. So where did they come from?
Gen 10:6 The sons of Ham were Cush, Mizraim, Put, and Canaan.
Gen 10:15 ¶Canaan begot Sidon his firstborn, and Heth;
Gen 10:17 the Hivite, the Arkite, and the Sinite;

I am giving the short blood line of the above as we need to understand where the giants came from.
Num 13:33 “There we saw the giants (the descendants of Anak came from the giants); and we were like grasshoppers in our own sight, and so we were in their sight.”

What most will agree on is that Ham's wife cared the blood line of the giants through the flood. Though it is sledom that one hears that this blood line was from Satan. I have no clue why this teaching seems to stop with the flood, or what anyone would hope to gain from a teaching of that kid. What we do find, is that the teaching of the son's of god as being rulers, does seem to fit a bit better now. Yet their is still questions that has not been answered by ether side.
1 If giants are the son's of the fallen, would they be seen as demigods?
2 If they are not children of the fallen, What about the transformation that mad them giants?

Gen 6:5 Then the LORD[fn] saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth, and that every intent of the thoughts of his heart was only evil continually.

Do we not still struggle with this today? Take a look at big Rx. They push pills on us that in many cases, can lead to bigger problems than we started with. Government removing HaShem from school's and pushing to have Him remove from any public forum. Trying to force church's to pro-forum same sex marriages, and the list can get rather long.
This also gives a hint hat HaShem was not looking at the mortality of ma kind, rather the intent of his heart. Seeing the need to help man kind understand this, HaShem also found fit to give a hand full of commandments to man kind after the flood. As we are not there yet, it seems right to hold off on that.

Gen 6:8 But Noah found grace in the eyes of the LORD.

Was this grace found in Noah's works, or was it found in his faith?
Once more their 2 sides to that. One makes the claim that salvation by works was the only way to find it. The other, makes the claim that faith was never by works, rather has always been by faith. As the Story unfolds, we find that Noah never asked, "Are you sure about this ark thing? I mean it has never rained in all my days, so how can I be sure of this?" No Noah just goes on and starts work on the ark, not asking why, or if it was really a good idea at all. The Word never tells us it was by faith, rather it show Noah's faith by his action. Does the Word show us Noah's salvation by his works? I think not, after all, what did Noah do when he first got off the ark? That's right boy's and girl's, he got drunk. As we will come to that in time, I am going to let it go for now.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

If we had to measure Noah's ministry by today's standards he would have been an utmost failure he preached for 120 years that the end is at hand and did not covert one person... how bold are we in our calling? How many times have we tried to speak to people in the love of God and by the second or third time we lose our temper and say now I can wash my hands and turn away from you.

Noah ministered for 120 years, teaching and warning people. Talk about being patient.

 

[Rainrider]

If we had to measure Noah's ministry by today's standards he would have been an utmost failure he preached for 120 years that the end is at hand and did not covert one person... how bold are we in our calling? How many times have we tried to speak to people in the love of God and by the second or third time we lose our temper and say now I can wash my hands and turn away from you.

Noah ministered for 120 years, teaching and warning people. Talk about being patient.

Something we all to work on. No way would have been telling them for 120 years and not slapped at lest one person. LOL OK maybe 4 or 5.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

Something we all to work on. No way would have been telling them for 120 years and not slapped at lest one person. LOL OK maybe 4 or 5.

One is a conservative estimate... 4 or 5 deaths maybe

 

[Rainrider]

One is a conservative estimate... 4 or 5 deaths maybe

Well we can dream you know.

 

[Blik]

Rainrider: We are not told of every child that Adam and Eve had, and we know there must have been daughters. We are not told when they could have children but be the time they were in their teens they could have children. That would be from 15 to 19 years doe every generation. The population of the world would multiply very fast.

We have many writings from ancient times, some that we just found again from the deep sea scrolls. Many are not inspired by the Lord, but they do give us an idea of the history and thoughts of the people of different times. The book of Enoch was considered as not only history but from the Lord until a Catholic council decided that it did not agree with their doctrines. Now church fathers are still arguing about it, but it is a book to read for history if nothing else.

The history that it gives would explain the words of our scripture. In heaven a leading angel, probably a cherubim rebelled against God. Many angels followed Him. We can read about it in Rev. 12:7. The fallen angels were sent to earth. We are told in scripture that some of these angels fathered human children that became giants. Scripture also gives instances of angels who take human form and act as humans, so we know it would be possible for them to father children.

These half human, half angel who were very large and very wicked made life very difficult for humans, even eating so much that they took all the food.

When God created our world for us, God started with a mass that was just darkness. The word that was used was Choshek that is an absence of anything of good. The first act of creation was to add good to our world, the word in Hebew in owr.

 

[Blik]

Rainrider: The Hebrew word owr has a meaning that no one english word can express, it would have to include many like peace, well-being, and prosperity.

When God chose Noah to start over with humans, getting rid of the evil that made a good life impossible here, it wasn't because of his works. It never is. It is always faith, but when we have faith in His word part of the meaning of that word is that we would use what we have faith in (His word) as our goal in life. If we have faith we have works. God is eternal and His principles are set in eternity so we can be sure that this was true of Noah.

 

[Zmouth]

If we had to measure Noah's ministry by today's standards he would have been an utmost failure he preached for 120 years that the end is at hand and did not covert one person... how bold are we in our calling? How many times have we tried to speak to people in the love of God and by the second or third time we lose our temper and say now I can wash my hands and turn away from you.

Noah ministered for 120 years, teaching and warning people. Talk about being patient.

The 120 years does not have anything to do with Noah.


12 And God looked upon the earth, and, behold, it was corrupt; for all flesh had corrupted his way upon the earth.
13 And God said unto Noah, The end of all flesh is come before me; for the earth is filled with violence through them; and, behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
14 Make thee an ark of gopher wood; rooms shalt thou make in the ark, and shalt pitch it within and without with pitch.
15 And this is the fashion which thou shalt make it of: The length of the ark shall be three hundred cubits, the breadth of it fifty cubits, and the height of it thirty cubits.
16 A window shalt thou make to the ark, and in a cubit shalt thou finish it above; and the door of the ark shalt thou set in the side thereof; with lower, second, and third stories shalt thou make it.
17 And, behold, I, even I, do bring a flood of waters upon the earth, to destroy all flesh, wherein is the breath of life, from under heaven; and every thing that is in the earth shall die.
18 But with thee will I establish my covenant; and thou shalt come into the ark, thou, and thy sons, and thy wife, and thy sons' wives with thee.
Gen 6:12-18

 

[Dan_473]

\
Yep, though that one can be seen as both prophecy and a commandment. When we got to that point, you will get to see both understandings, and where they come from. It is kind of interesting.

yep,

and every commandment is also a prophecy

if one is willing to consider it.

 

[Rainrider]

Rainrider: The Hebrew word owr has a meaning that no one english word can express, it would have to include many like peace, well-being, and prosperity.

When God chose Noah to start over with humans, getting rid of the evil that made a good life impossible here, it wasn't because of his works. It never is. It is always faith, but when we have faith in His word part of the meaning of that word is that we would use what we have faith in (His word) as our goal in life. If we have faith we have works. God is eternal and His principles are set in eternity so we can be sure that this was true of Noah.

Amen and thank you. I do at times over look some things. I know that I shouldn't, yet I am human. Salvation by faith is the one thing that I do my best to make clear. All though I am trying hard to set my own thoughts aside in this study, I know they still show through, at lest to some degree, that is also a human trate. One that sadly not many people can set aside totally. I am looking foreword to seeing more of you on this thread, as it seems you fill in the blanks I may leave nicely.
As we know, it is always good to have someone that is willing to do this. I have found that there are some willing to do this, and I give thanks to HaShem every night for them all.
May HaShem bless you for your work, and may he also bless your family.

 

[miknik5]

If we had to measure Noah's ministry by today's standards he would have been an utmost failure he preached for 120 years that the end is at hand and did not covert one person... how bold are we in our calling? How many times have we tried to speak to people in the love of God and by the second or third time we lose our temper and say now I can wash my hands and turn away from you.

Noah ministered for 120 years, teaching and warning people. Talk about being patient.

He was, however, a righteous...unbiased preacher

He did not withhold the TRUTH because of the condition of the men to whom he preached
He didn't decide for himself if they were "worthy" to hear GOD's message
He just told everyone and anyone who had ears to hear

they were to busy enjoying the current comfort and treasures of life that they couldn't hear

 

[Rainrider]

Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Perfect in his generation. Now I have heard some really odd things about this one phrase. I won't list them all, as that would take to long. Rather lets take them all down to just 2 things.
1 It was Noah that perfect, only in that he didn't follow the ways of other men, and though he was a drunk, he was only perfect when compared to others around him.
I find this kind of an absurd statement for 2 reasons. the first is that HaShem doesn't look at the actions of ma kind, only at what is in their hearts. So for us to place the kind of reasoning we use on HaShem, shows a lack of understanding of Who He really is. If one truly turns their life over to Him, they would want to know Him. To know Him, we must study His Word, and seek out everything we can find of Who, He is, what He is like, and what He wants from us, and most of all, what He looks for in us, as true followers.
The second reason I find this absurd, is that it tells us in this same verse, That Noah walked with HaShem.
The other side of this, is one I can live with, as I am sure most of you will find it as well. Noah was not a perfect man, though He lived by Faith in HaShem, this faith, as with all true faith, would be seen in his actions. This we will see is a recurring theme though out the Word. I will say that if you can show me just one person in any parts of the Word, that gained salvation by works, I will show a misunderstanding in your interpretation of the Word.

Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:14 “Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch.

As one reads the written blueprints of this ark, it seems rather straight forward. However, we must keep in mind this thing is going to have to stay upright, and in some high seas I might add. There have been some studies on just what made this ark so sea worthy, and they found one thing or another. What none of them looked at was the that HaShem wanted it to stay together, and keep everything on board a live. So in my mind, no mater what it looked like, it would do as HaShem wanted.
Still it is fun to look at what they found in their studies. It has been many years from when I seen them, yet one thing that stands out in my mind is this.
They found that if the ark had a shallow draft, it would capsize. If the draft was to deep, it would take on water, and sink. The size and shape of the ark was the key, when loaded to what they think was the right wight, a wave of 200ft. from the side, only rocked the ark. When they looked at the wight, then scaled it up, they found that it is highly likely the ark would have had to have 2 of almost every animal on earth to reach the needed draft. Along with feed, and other needed supplies. Yet they never seem to have found room for them all.
That we will look at later, as some mighty strange things are thought, and they need more time that I am willing to give them right now.
Gen 6:17 “And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Don't get your pitchforks ready just yet. I am going to remove a part of this verse, as I have seen done many times, just to show you how man does twist things.

Everything shall die.

Oddly some wish to twist this one passage to show that the Bible isn't real. they remove part in an attempt to make it seem as though HaShem didn't do what He said. They then say that the fish weren't on the ark, so they should have all died as well. Claiming that fresh water would have cut the salt in the sea so everything in the sea would die from that. Then when sea water mixed with fresh water, the fresh water life would die. Yet as in all things, if we turn to nature, we find that a bull shark can live in fresh water. Salmon start their life in fresh water, move to salt water, then back into fresh. So if we can find that in the world today, who are we say what is right and wrong? After all, when seen in it's full context, HaShem says, everything in the earth, He does not say earth and sea.

Gen 6:22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did.

Their is one thing that one must look at here. HaShem was not going to save Noah from the flood, rather the plain was to save Noah, his family, and all animal life, THROUGH the flood. This is also a recurring theme through out the Word. I am not going to post any pasages to show this here, rather I am going to remind us of this one, as we find it repeated.

 

[miknik5]

Gen 6:9 This is the genealogy of Noah. Noah was a just man, perfect in his generations. Noah walked with God.

Perfect in his generation. Now I have heard some really odd things about this one phrase. I won't list them all, as that would take to long. Rather lets take them all down to just 2 things.
1 It was Noah that perfect, only in that he didn't follow the ways of other men, and though he was a drunk, he was only perfect when compared to others around him.


I find this kind of an absurd statement for 2 reasons. the first is that HaShem doesn't look at the actions of ma kind, only at what is in their hearts. So for us to place the kind of reasoning we use on HaShem, shows a lack of understanding of Who He really is. If one truly turns their life over to Him, they would want to know Him. To know Him, we must study His Word, and seek out everything we can find of Who, He is, what He is like, and what He wants from us, and most of all, what He looks for in us, as true followers.

The second reason I find this absurd, is that it tells us in this same verse, That Noah walked with HaShem.
The other side of this, is one I can live with, as I am sure most of you will find it as well. Noah was not a perfect man, though He lived by Faith in HaShem, this faith, as with all true faith, would be seen in his actions. This we will see is a recurring theme though out the Word. I will say that if you can show me just one person in any parts of the Word, that gained salvation by works, I will show a misunderstanding in your interpretation of the Word.

Gen 6:13 And God said to Noah, “The end of all flesh has come before Me, for the earth is filled with violence through them; and behold, I will destroy them with the earth.
Gen 6:14 “Make yourself an ark of gopherwood; make rooms in the ark, and cover it inside and outside with pitch.

As one reads the written blueprints of this ark, it seems rather straight forward. However, we must keep in mind this thing is going to have to stay upright, and in some high seas I might add. There have been some studies on just what made this ark so sea worthy, and they found one thing or another. What none of them looked at was the that HaShem wanted it to stay together, and keep everything on board a live. So in my mind, no mater what it looked like, it would do as HaShem wanted.
Still it is fun to look at what they found in their studies. It has been many years from when I seen them, yet one thing that stands out in my mind is this.
They found that if the ark had a shallow draft, it would capsize. If the draft was to deep, it would take on water, and sink. The size and shape of the ark was the key, when loaded to what they think was the right wight, a wave of 200ft. from the side, only rocked the ark. When they looked at the wight, then scaled it up, they found that it is highly likely the ark would have had to have 2 of almost every animal on earth to reach the needed draft. Along with feed, and other needed supplies. Yet they never seem to have found room for them all.
That we will look at later, as some mighty strange things are thought, and they need more time that I am willing to give them right now.
Gen 6:17 “And behold, I Myself am bringing floodwaters on the earth, to destroy from under heaven all flesh in which is the breath of life; everything that is on the earth shall die.

Don't get your pitchforks ready just yet. I am going to remove a part of this verse, as I have seen done many times, just to show you how man does twist things.

Everything shall die.

Oddly some wish to twist this one passage to show that the Bible isn't real. they removepart in an attempt to make it seem as though HaShem didn't do what He said. They then say that the fish weren't on the ark, so they should have all died as well. Claiming that fresh water would have cut the salt in the sea so everything in the sea would die from that. Then when sea water mixed with fresh water, the fresh water life would die. Yet as in all things, if we turn to nature, we find that a bull shark can live in fresh water. Salmon start their life in fresh water, move to salt water, then back into fresh. So if we can find that in the world today, who are we say what is right and wrong? After all, when seen in it's full context, HaShem says, everything in the earth, He does not say earth and sea.

Gen 6:22 Thus Noah did; according to all that God commanded him, so he did.

Their is one thing that one must look at here. HaShem was not going to save Noah from the flood, rather the plain was to save Noah, his family, and all animal life, THROUGH the flood. This is also a recurring theme through out the Word. I am not going to post any pasages to show this here, rather I am going to remind us of this one, as we find it repeated.

I'm confused
what is it you find absurd?


What GOD said of Noah?

Or what you said of Noah?

 

[Blik]

Rainrider: I would like to add some things from this chapter. Noah was given strict instructions about how to build the ark. The ark was for his salvation. We are given strict instructions for our salvation. Noah was to act on these instructions and the Lord would take care of all the rest.

It is the same for our salvation. We are given strict instructions to follow and God will take care of all the rest.

The Ark was called tevah in Hebrew, the same word was used for the basket the baby Moses was put in to be saved.

 

[Blik]

Rainrider: The report we have of the ark is symbolic of our redemption. Eight humans were saved, Noah, his 3 sons, and their wives. Eight is the number of redemption.

In very 29 it starts with the words "God said". Much of scripture is written as a result of the spiritual input to a human, he must use his own words to explain what comes from the Lord. But when we see the words "God said" it is given to the writer in exact words. When we see this we must pay special attention.

Scripture is telling what is food at this time. Of course, animals and humans could choose to eat anything for we have choices, they could even eat dirt. But only what God gave them to eat was food for them. Later God will assign certain meat as also food, but not at that time.

 

[Rainrider]

I'm confused
what is it you find absurd?


What GOD said of Noah?

Or what you said of Noah?

That was perfect. Not that he was not perfect when looked at from HaShem's view, that his salvation was by works, as that teaching implies.

 

[Rainrider]

Rainrider: The report we have of the ark is symbolic of our redemption. Eight humans were saved, Noah, his 3 sons, and their wives. Eight is the number of redemption.

In very 29 it starts with the words "God said". Much of scripture is written as a result of the spiritual input to a human, he must use his own words to explain what comes from the Lord. But when we see the words "God said" it is given to the writer in exact words. When we see this we must pay special attention.

Scripture is telling what is food at this time. Of course, animals and humans could choose to eat anything for we have choices, they could even eat dirt. But only what God gave them to eat was food for them. Later God will assign certain meat as also food, but not at that time.

Once again I find my self thanking you. Looks like it is habit forming. LOL Jokes a side, I did miss that, and thank you. I have followed the role that if HaShem said it, pay attention, if He repeats it, pay close attention, if He says it a 3rd time, commit it to memory.
As we go through the Torah, we will find many things are not so much said as done. That same role should apply there as well.

 

[Rainrider]

Chapter 7 opens with HaShem calling Noah into the ark. It also increased the number of clean animals that were to go with him, from 2 to 7. Or does it? There are as always 2 schools of thought on this.

In the first one, it is said that only the unclean were spoken of in chapter 6. As they are now seen clearly, in their own naming, and should never be seen as included with unclean. This is so that we will come to understand the differences in the 2. As well making it clear that unclean has never been called food, in passage in the Bible.
I will get to Peters dream in a second.

In the second one, it is said, it was at this point that HaShem changed his mind on what man should eat. Being that from the beginning, man was told only to eat plaint life. Yet at this time, HaShem seen that ma would need to eat meat, as the world would be changed, leaving behind nothing for man to eat until it all grow back. At that time, man should have returned to his vegan life.

Lets first look at the second school. If man was to return to being vegan, then why was this never made clear, and why, (as we will see later) is the eating for flesh set in the sacrificial Laws?

Now to Peters dream. As we all know Peter dreamed of unclean things coming down in a sheet. He was told to eat this. So lets take a real close look at this.
Act 10:10 Then he became very hungry and wanted to eat; but while they made ready, he fell into a trance

Ever dreamed of something you were thinking of as you drifted off to sleep? I know it tells us he fell into a trance, just hang in there please. Ever dreamed of something you know is wrong, yet in your dream you doing it? Ever had the 2 things mix, only to find your self faced with something fitting the same scenario as your dream? If you answered yes to any of the above, you have a chance of understanding Peter as he gives us the meaning of this dream.

Act 10:11 and saw heaven opened and an object like a great sheet bound at the four corners, descending to him and let down to the earth.
Act 10:12 In it were all kinds of four-footed animals of the earth, wild beasts, creeping things, and birds of the air.
Act 10:13 And a voice came to him, “Rise, Peter; kill and eat.”
Act 10:14 ¶But Peter said, “Not so, Lord! For I have never eaten anything common or unclean.”
Act 10:15 ¶And a voice spoke to him again the second time, “What God has cleansed you must not call common.”

There are 2 schools on this passage. One stops here, and doesn't get into what the Word tells us this means. The other, wants you to see that the Word, and not man has the final say on this.
for any that wish to argue the teachings, your argument is with the Word and not me. First, you will see your side placed here, second, you will see what the Word tells us. I am willing to talk it through, don't turn to Paul, this about Peter, not Paul.

Aswe all know some translations use the words ever unclean thing. Be that as it may, this passage does not say one word about making pork clean, and good for food. This HaShem using something that He knows will got Peter to slow down and here Him out. It is also the one thing that fits not just food, rather it fits the Rabbinic Laws about Gentiles as well. So to build off just what is seen, is not only deceptive, it also removes the true intent of any teaching left for us here. As I will now show.
Act 10:19 ¶While Peter thought about the vision, the Spirit said to him, “Behold, three men are seeking you.
Act 10:20 “Arise therefore, go down and go with them, doubting nothing; for I have sent them.”

One thing we must note here is that the men are gentile. This must be keep in mind please.
Act 10:21 Then Peter went down to the men who had been sent to him from Cornelius,[fn] and said, “Yes, I am he whom you seek. For what reason have you come?”



Act 10:22 And they said, “Cornelius the centurion, a just man, one who fears God and has a good reputation among all the nation of the Jews, was divinely instructed by a holy angel to summon you to his house, and to hear words from you.”

Skipping some, though it in no way removes the context of the teaching. So please don't try and say it does. That will only show you didn't understand what you read, or that you are only working to derail this teaching, or trying to discreit the teachers, that follow the second school on this.
Act 10:28 Then he said to them, “You know how unlawful it is for a Jewish man to keep company with or go to one of another nation. But God has shown me that I should not call any man common or unclean.

If one over looks this, and goes back to it's all about food, they are missing the true intent of this, and remove the context of the teaching that is placed in the Word, for us to understand that all men, once they turn their life over to HaShem are clean. Peter in his hops of making this clear repeats this. Though not in the same words. As we find in the next chapter, Peter is asked about this, He told them of his dream and it's meaning when he said,
Act 11:17 “If therefore God gave them the same gift as He gave us when we believed on the Lord Jesus Christ, who was I that I could withstand God?”

Now if we turn back to the first teaching, we can see that when Peter said it was unlawful for him to enter the home of a gentile, he was speaking of Rabbinic law. Where that Law came from will talked of when we get there. What most don't understand is that by this aw, a man would be cut off from the House of Israel for entering the home of a gentile. That is if they were not stoned. It is a part of history that many don't know, as Israel is not prod of this. Just as when a person takes a class on church history, some churches will skip right over the inquisitions. Some will place all the blame for the crusades on the Muslim people, and never tell you that it was in part greed that lead them into Israel.
Just one reason I look at all history with supposition. The tellers of it, use the same form of teaching that many use with the Bible. Tell only what you wish to be followed, and then if you wish to eat unclean foods, go for it. If you wish to have a homosexual relation, it's all good.
As we will soon see in this tread, the ones that wish the Law removed, will never answer direct question that show they do in fact follow at lest parts of the Law. Trust me, they are going to jump on this with all 8 legs. To them, I only have one thing to say. If you don't like this teaching, leave. I am sure you can find some on here that fit you, and you won't find me there to disrupt your teaching, so don't be a liberal, and disrupt this. As I have said many times. Please show the Love of Yeshua, by being respectful, not the love of Satan by being disruptive and hateful.

 

[GandalfTheWhite]

I actually red Acts this morning where Peter had his dream and nowhere it says that he did eat. Even when he recollected the vision he never said that he ate anything.

The interesting thing about the word being used for the ark is that it is only used to describe one more thing in the Bible.... care to take a guess..... the basket that Moses was placed in when his parents put him on the Nile.

 

[miknik5]

That was perfect. Not that he was not perfect when looked at from HaShem's view, that his salvation was by works, as that teaching implies.

Noah believed GOD. He believed in the coming destruction, he did what GOD told him to do (build an ark) and he preached to the people the truth of the coming destruction Noah pointed al men to the ark and (THE REFUGE which GOD had provided)

but only those who listened and entered in were saved

By the way what do you think of RDKirk's input?
and now upon reading Gandalf's same response about the ark?

And what does "eight" signify?