Tithing

[Meggido]

Read it again! Those who do not make God First with the tenth of their income are under a curse. That person(s) has initiated judicial blindness (God sees to it that your spiritual insight gets worse because of your heart hardiness when you reject truth) (Romans 11:7-8).

(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8

For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest he also spare not thee. Romans 11:21

For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:21 NIV

lay down the trash that is Jimmy Swaggerts false expositors study bible and his satanic lies and think for you self....Romans 11.1-10 has zero to do with tithing...

 

[Burninglight]

You think tithes can save?

Where did you get that idea from?

Tithing only became a part of the law to begin with. Originally, it is not of the law. It is of the promise. You see, you have not yet given a specific verse to refute tithing. Your Hebrews 10:1 has nothing to do with tithe! Sacrifices and offerings have something to do with what the Lord Jesus did for redemption. Are you now comparing apples from oranges?
It seems it’s you who is trying to impose to someone who doesn’t really adhere that tithes can save. .

So you believe tithing can save you?

In reality, you trying to make me believe that tithe is connected to the sacrificial offering of Christ at Calvary. No way, Hebrews 10:1 is not about tithe as per context or the whole chapter and indeed is irrelevant to the topic at hand.

It is about the law and tithing was part of it. Did you read Gal. 3?

 

[Burninglight]

What?.... The dilemma is that you view tithing is binding to one’s salvation. No, no, no…

Where did you get that idea?

 

[Burninglight]

Passing the plate condemns or puffs up, which is why we do not pass around anything...

We have 12 baskets in the back, each labeled with where the money is going...3 of the baskets are reserved for giving into congregation voted improvements to the house. For example, we need new carpet, then our trustee board chairman will let the congregation know of the need and put it to vote.

We also highly encourage our folks to give to materially[food, clothes, etc] and financially to each other as the Spirit Leads.

We have seen medicals bills get paid in full, people given cars, school supplies and school clothes paid for, etc....

All done decently and in order and not with any form of personal pride....this is because we never ask who did what for who...and do not do me-a-monies from who gave and who received.

That is an interesting set up.

 

[Burninglight]

Tithing was before the Law Genesis 14:19-20 "“Blessed be Abram of God Most High,Possessor of heaven and earth;
20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”

And he gave him a tithe of all."

Abraham was before the law, yet in was in his heart to give a tenth of what he had to the priest of the most high. Could this mean that those that did not have this in their hearts are not of the most high? I do not know, you will have to wrestle with the Scriptures for yourself, but to say that tithing is from the Law is not true, it was before the Law. The Law endorsed it to help support the priesthood, the tabernacle or temple, so that Israel could have those to administer the sacrifices for the people.

Are we to bring a tenth of all our food and goods to the Church? What's in your heart? The reality is that the Church was started in Israel and everything in Israel was by inheritance, land, housing and food. The early Church sold all of what they could of their inheritance according to the Law, to support the Church. Do we need to do that now? No, we give what is in our hearts as you mentioned. Our father Abraham had in his heart to give 10% of all he had to the priest of the most high. The tenth is the guide line. If you have ever been to Israel they have kibbutz, that are communal living, where all is for the collective community, everyone lives together and works together for the common good, as the Church did in the first century. Things have changed quite a bit since the first century, so the Church is guided by what is in their heart and if tithing is a problem in your heart, maybe you need to check your heart. not the fellowship. because the Bible has tithing many years before the Law and the Law is specific as to what it is for, but Abraham gave it willingly and for no specific purpose. It was to the most high alone, so give to the Lord and if you see abuses, then think about where you give. If you are being feed where you go to Church, give, if not look for a place that feeds you and give.

It is okay if you tithe. that is between you and God. Just don't tell anyone else that is what they have to do or it is their guideline to follow. As for me, I believe in forsaking all we have to follow Jesus... Luke 14: 33...

 

[Burninglight]

You see, you have not yet given a specific verse to refute tithing. .

You have given any verses to support tithing is for the NT saints.

 

[Burninglight]

Let me see it this way, seems it’s you now you who speak much of the Law. Let me try another example because you are talking about the Law. Paul talks about honoring our parents as in Ephesians 6:2-3 citing Exodus 30:12. Is this Law have been broken? No and no my friend, this Law is still in effect.:

Honoring you parents is a commandment not a law.

“Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.”:

I think you are confusing commandments with laws. Our only commandments is to love God with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves. the command is to love all' therefore loving our parents includes honoring them which goes without saying. To compare this to tithing is doing the apples and orange thing again.

Off course, I speak of faith and, I didn’t add or take away scriptures. I just cited scriptures. While giving is taught in the NT, tithe also is being taught in the NT. Jesus said it! The unknown writer of the Book of Hebrews told it! Giving for me is alright and must be taught which depends on one’s faith. The principle taught in giving is “sow much reap much, sow sparingly reap sparingly”. No problem with that but it does not even by slightest degree you have refuted tithe. You said “give not 10%” actually tithe is “returning”, the tithe is the Lords. Now you are now going back where Jesus taught before he died and resurrected making a reference to Luke 14 and that’s great. The point is we can always refer back to what Jesus said. If Jesus is true to giving then he is also true to tithing. Hebrews says Jesus is High Priest and every believer is a priest. :

I never said give not 10%. I said give as you purpose in your heart. There is no compulsion to giving.

Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:

this has nothing to do with tithing.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

actually everybody to think more in depth about "Tithing/offering" remember ye how Jesus saw a woman whom gave two wheat pennies for Tithing/Offerring and Jesus said"I say unto ye that this woman has given more than all of these(other people in room)for she hath given all she has,where as these have merely given from their abundance"(as in they were well off yet gave simply 10% instead of thinking to give more to God,when it would not have hurt their finances)so when one thinks of Tithing/Offering,money comes to mind,and for some Jesus paying Our Tithes,comes to mind,but what of ourselves,is it not written that one is to love God with all their strength body mind and soul,so to do that think ye that we can do more than just "enough" for God,For hasn't he given us life,has he not given us a world to live in,and many other blessings that many take for granted,so why not do more for God by giving of ourselves as our Tithes/Offering to God for what he expects from us is not heated debates over who is right and who is wrong,but a few simple yet difficult things for many to give of themselves that God asks of us,
1.Money offering,simple enough many can see fit to give 10% but what of those whom don't have it,can you not give more than your share to do right for God?
2.Time,Do you make time for God in your life to go to God's house or at the very least thanked him sincerely for what you have?
3.Prayer,Have you given of yourself by praying for others,whom are less fortunate or are struggling,or could use guidance from God?
4.Love and Compassion,have you given of yourself by sharing God's love by helping your neighbors and not just your friends and relatives?
5.Endurance,have you been spreading God's word and teaching it where you can and when asked,without fear of what may befall you by serving God devoutly?
All of these are considered Tithes/Offering to God because they are all giving of yourself,so in essence Tithing is not Just in regards to mere currency or Jesus's dieing for us but rather what we can do for God faithfully and willingly so as to show that We appreciate what has been given us not because of the old line"well we have to..." but rather because "You" actually want to give unto God in someway that is right in his eyes for God has had his fill of money offerings,drink offerings,and meat offerings,but what he really would appreciate is "US" because We are his children and he would like to walk alongside us,and know that he has our appreciation and our devotion!

Tithes and offerings are not synonymous.

A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less.

An offering, on the other hand, can be any amount.

Jesus saw a woman whom gave two wheat pennies Wheat pennies - which are actually a "cent" rather than penny - were issued by US mints(Denver, Philadelphia, San Fransisco) from 1909-1958. The widow gave 2 mites.

​

a woman whom gave two wheat pennies for Tithing/Offerring As stated earlier, tithes and offerings are two completely different forms of giving. The widow gave an offering, not a tithe. She put her offering into an offering container in the women's court(aka "middle court") at the temple. How is it not a tithe? She gave all she had to live on...not just 10%.

As for our time, finances, prayer, love, compassion, endurance...most of these should occur naturally in the fruits of the Spirit(Gal 5:22-23) in Christians since they have had a spiritually rebirth.

 

[Burninglight]

As stated earlier, tithes and offerings are two completely different forms of giving. .

Except tithe is not considered giving.

 

[DJ2]

Tithes and offerings are not synonymous.

A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less.

An offering, on the other hand, can be any amount.

Jesus saw a woman whom gave two wheat pennies Wheat pennies - which are actually a "cent" rather than penny - were issued by US mints(Denver, Philadelphia, San Fransisco) from 1909-1958. The widow gave 2 mites.

View attachment 171807
​

a woman whom gave two wheat pennies for Tithing/Offerring As stated earlier, tithes and offerings are two completely different forms of giving. The widow gave an offering, not a tithe. She put her offering into an offering container in the women's court(aka "middle court") at the temple. How is it not a tithe? She gave all she had to live on...not just 10%.

As for our time, finances, prayer, love, compassion, endurance...most of these should occur naturally in the fruits of the Spirit(Gal 5:22-23) in Christians since they have had a spiritually rebirth.

I agree with your post but there is one point I would like to mention. Your comment "A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less." is somewhat inaccurate.
True a tithe means 1/10 but its scope is limited on this subject. A tithe has religious implications that cannot be ignored.

Example: if I had ten dollars in my pocket and i gave one to a friend I would not use the word tithe to describe the transaction. But if I were a Old Testament farmer and I was giving a tenth of my produce to the temple as required by law, that would be a tithe.

Whether or not we want to, we cannot tithe. To give a biblical tithe you would need to give it to the correct people, in the correct fashion, for the correct purpose. Since there is no temple or Levites to give it to, the issue is moot. Of course we are free to give a tenth of anything to whatever group we prefer, but it would be erroneous to assume this equals a biblical tithe.

A biblical tithe was a mandated requirement with punishments for those who did not pay, much like our taxation today.
Today we are commanded to give as we are moved to give, regardless of the Mosaic law.

If you give something to the church, better to call it a freewill offer then a tithe. A tithe must be collected and used according to strict Old Testament laws.

 

[Meggido]

That is an interesting set up.

We sought the leading of the Holy Spirit on this and this is what he came up with. The 12 baskets have Biblical importance and symbolism, that many miss...we never pass a plate or take a collection, our Worship Pastor reminds people if they want to give the baskets are in the back....many services we do not even say anything.....



I grew up in an arm twisting legalistic church that demanded you sign a covenant stating you would give 10% of ALL income and then offerings 4x a year...I saw the condemnation it placed onto my parents, who had very little to give. I saw it build pride in the ones who could. I also saw how financial giving could take control of the church.

I have had to counsel pastors of rural and small town churches how to part ways with families that give in abundance but not to see the kingdom advances, but rather their own agendas advanced.


Churches that scream for 10% will only receive 10% and not anything else. The modern tithe is working faith to meet needs right out of the church.

2 Cor 9.6-8 shows us this....

Now this I say, he who sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and he who sows bountifully will also reap bountifully. [SUP]7 [/SUP]Each one must do just as he has purposed in his heart, not grudgingly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. [SUP]8 [/SUP]And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that always having all sufficiency in everything, you may have an abundance for every good deed



In the NT, We are commanded to give with a cheerful heart and what we are able to give..

2 Cor 8.3

[SUP]3 [/SUP]For I testify that according to their ability, and beyond their ability, they gave of their own accord,

2 Cor 8.7-15-look at verse 12 here....
[SUP]
7 [/SUP]But just as you abound in everything, in faith and utterance and knowledge and in all earnestness and in the love we inspired in you, see that you abound in this gracious work also. [SUP]8 [/SUP]I am not speaking this as a command, but as proving through the earnestness of others the sincerity of your love also. [SUP]9 [/SUP]For you know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that though He was rich, yet for your sake He became poor, so that you through His poverty might become rich. [SUP]10 [/SUP]I give my opinion in this matter, for this is to your advantage, who were the first to begin a year ago not only to do this, but also to desire to do it. [SUP]11 [/SUP]But now finish doing it also, so that just as there was the readiness to desire it, so there may be also the completion of it by your ability. [SUP]12 [/SUP]For if the readiness is present, it is acceptable according to what a person has, not according to what he does not have. [SUP]13 [/SUP]For this is not for the ease of others and for your affliction, but by way of equality— [SUP]14 [/SUP]at this present time your abundance being a supply for their need, so that their abundance also may become a supply for your need, that there may be equality; [SUP]15 [/SUP]as it is written, “He who gathered much did not have too much, and he who gathered little had no lack.”


Paul himself is telling us that we give what we can, not what we do not have...many cannot even do 10%,. This also puts to bed those silly folks that "sow a seed" they do not have...any command to "sow a seed in faith" violates this passage..

A ministry of any kind should be making a deposit into people, not a withdraw....

The lawyers on this thread cannot give you a NT verse against tithing because there are none.....

 

[maverich]

this is directly to MESSAGEOFTHECROSS.

I can't help but to rebut your idea of the tithing and being cursed, first and foremost, you quote verses like a bad preacher, no context, read Romans 11 from 1-20 as the other person said. The message of Romans is Grace, 7000 were kept as a remnant they are the elect. The others are those who reject Grace, such as yourself. with your written statement, you have put a curse on yourself. I daresay you can tithe from here to everlasting and you will never be blessed

Paul stated if you preach any other Gospel, then you are doubly cursed. And because you put that out where everybody can see it you in essence have cursed yourself. Your heart is hard, and will get harder if you continue to reject Grace.

Keep in mind when you write in this forum, you have become a preacher, and as such you are held to higher accountability.

Grace has a name, it is Jesus. Jesus is the Gospel, Reject 1 and you reject them all. because you are a child the Gospel/Grace/Jesus, is
He was subjected to whippings and scourging, spat on and mocked, a crown of thorns put on his. why! he said best on the cross "forgive them Father they are crazy"! thats you and me child. He was made to carry his cross up to Golgatha ( the place of the skull) Goliath head is buried there hence the name. When my Lord stumbled with the weight he was carrying, Simeon which means stone which represents the law came along side to assist him, The law is always there, to help us get to the place of death.

He is nailed to a wooden cross, naked beaten, hurting as no man has ever hurt. He takes my unbelief and is lifted in the air, he is in agony. scripture is being fulfilled at an amazing rate, He says in his agony "I thirst," the Holy Spirit has left him!!!! He cries out " My GOD My God why have you forsaken me.(Only time Jesus ever called God, God) he was always Father.

He cries out "IT IS FINISHED" and he breathes his last. A Roman soldier take a spear, (catch this) and shoves it into his side and out comes water and blood.

Jesus is asleep, and his side is opened, Adam was in a deep sleep and his side was opened. Eve came out of Adam, and God closed his side. Jesus's side was never closed. it still is open today. I will let you figure that all out

Then on the eight day of the week. (check Leviticus) we call it sunday. The feast of First Fruits is being celebrated. Jesus the Son of God arose, he walked alive out of the grave, and because of the greatest sacrifice ever, I am able to say That by GRACE?JESUS/GOSPEL!!!!! all that believe are saved
I will ask the Father to have mercy on you,

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

this is directly to MESSAGEOFTHECROSS.

I can't help but to rebut your idea of the tithing and being cursed, first and foremost, you quote verses like a bad preacher, no context, read Romans 11 from 1-20 as the other person said. The message of Romans is Grace, 7000 were kept as a remnant they are the elect. The others are those who reject Grace, such as yourself. with your written statement, you have put a curse on yourself. I daresay you can tithe from here to everlasting and you will never be blessed

Paul stated if you preach any other Gospel, then you are doubly cursed. And because you put that out where everybody can see it you in essence have cursed yourself. Your heart is hard, and will get harder if you continue to reject Grace.

Keep in mind when you write in this forum, you have become a preacher, and as such you are held to higher accountability.

Grace has a name, it is Jesus. Jesus is the Gospel, Reject 1 and you reject them all. because you are a child the Gospel/Grace/Jesus, is
He was subjected to whippings and scourging, spat on and mocked, a crown of thorns put on his. why! he said best on the cross "forgive them Father they are crazy"! thats you and me child. He was made to carry his cross up to Golgatha ( the place of the skull) Goliath head is buried there hence the name. When my Lord stumbled with the weight he was carrying, Simeon which means stone which represents the law came along side to assist him, The law is always there, to help us get to the place of death.

He is nailed to a wooden cross, naked beaten, hurting as no man has ever hurt. He takes my unbelief and is lifted in the air, he is in agony. scripture is being fulfilled at an amazing rate, He says in his agony "I thirst," the Holy Spirit has left him!!!! He cries out " My GOD My God why have you forsaken me.(Only time Jesus ever called God, God) he was always Father.

He cries out "IT IS FINISHED" and he breathes his last. A Roman soldier take a spear, (catch this) and shoves it into his side and out comes water and blood.

Jesus is asleep, and his side is opened, Adam was in a deep sleep and his side was opened. Eve came out of Adam, and God closed his side. Jesus's side was never closed. it still is open today. I will let you figure that all out

Then on the eight day of the week. (check Leviticus) we call it sunday. The feast of First Fruits is being celebrated. Jesus the Son of God arose, he walked alive out of the grave, and because of the greatest sacrifice ever, I am able to say That by GRACE?JESUS/GOSPEL!!!!! all that believe are saved
I will ask the Father to have mercy on you,

The demon spirit of mammon is real and alive. He does not care if you keep one foot in the Water that goes "ankle deep (salvation and not sanctification) (Ezekiel 47)," while the another ankle remains dry (in the world - James 1:8, James 4:4) and trust in flesh. (Jeremiah 17:5)

Remember Lot's wife! Luke 9:62

It is good to see the convicting Power of the Holy Spirit trying to help you.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

I agree with your post but there is one point I would like to mention. Your comment "A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less." is somewhat inaccurate.

True a tithe means 1/10 but its scope is limited on this subject. A tithe has religious implications that cannot be ignored.

Example: if I had ten dollars in my pocket and i gave one to a friend I would not use the word tithe to describe the transaction. But if I were a Old Testament farmer and I was giving a tenth of my produce to the temple as required by law, that would be a tithe.

Whether or not we want to, we cannot tithe. To give a biblical tithe you would need to give it to the correct people, in the correct fashion, for the correct purpose. Since there is no temple or Levites to give it to, the issue is moot. Of course we are free to give a tenth of anything to whatever group we prefer, but it would be erroneous to assume this equals a biblical tithe.

A biblical tithe was a mandated requirement with punishments for those who did not pay, much like our taxation today.
Today we are commanded to give as we are moved to give, regardless of the Mosaic law.

If you give something to the church, better to call it a freewill offer then a tithe. A tithe must be collected and used according to strict Old Testament laws.

I agree with your post but there is one point I would like to mention. Your comment "A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less." is somewhat inaccurate. I was just referring to the mathematics of the situation.

I agree with your thoughts, though. Tithes given to churches today don't meet the standards of O.T. tithes regulations.

Very valid clarification to make. One that may confuse the pro-tithers!

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

As stated earlier, tithes and offerings are two completely different forms of giving.

Except tithe is not considered giving.

Tithes were indeed mandatory for livestock and crop-growing Israelites. Taxation, in essence.

Being taxed for an amount and giving an amount are certainly different!

"Tithes and offerings are two completely different ways of funding God's work/people in the Bible". How dat? Got a better way to word it. It's kinda challenging!

 

[MessageOfTheCross]

Tithes and offerings are not synonymous.

A tithe is 10%. Nothing more and nothing less.

An offering, on the other hand, can be any amount.

Jesus saw a woman whom gave two wheat pennies Wheat pennies - which are actually a "cent" rather than penny - were issued by US mints(Denver, Philadelphia, San Fransisco) from 1909-1958. The widow gave 2 mites.

View attachment 171807
​

a woman whom gave two wheat pennies for Tithing/Offerring As stated earlier, tithes and offerings are two completely different forms of giving. The widow gave an offering, not a tithe. She put her offering into an offering container in the women's court(aka "middle court") at the temple. How is it not a tithe? She gave all she had to live on...not just 10%.

As for our time, finances, prayer, love, compassion, endurance...most of these should occur naturally in the fruits of the Spirit(Gal 5:22-23) in Christians since they have had a spiritually rebirth.

Don't forget to mention who was watching the people put their tithes and offering in the box as He watches this present day.

And He sat down opposite the treasury, and began observing how the people were putting money into the treasury; and many rich people were putting in large sums. Mark 12:41 NASB

In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by Him who is declared to be living. Hebrews 7:8 NIV

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Don't forget to mention who was watching the people put their tithes and offering in the box as He watches this present day.

And He sat down opposite the treasury, and began observing how the people were putting money into the treasury; and many rich people were putting in large sums. Mark 12:41 NASB

In the one case, the tenth is collected by people who die; but in the other case, by Him who is declared to be living. Hebrews 7:8 NIV

There were likely no tithes in the situation described in Mark 12:41.

They were all offerings.

Take a guess at how I know this.

 

[fredoheaven]

Honoring you parents is a commandment not a law.
I think you are confusing commandments with laws. Our only commandments is to love God with all our being and our neighbor as ourselves. the command is to love all' therefore loving our parents includes honoring them which goes without saying. To compare this to tithing is doing the apples and orange thing again.

Matthew 5:18Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Matthew 5:19 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Matthew 5:20 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.

Hi,

Thank you for the discussion we have and I do understand your view. Getting on the subject with whom Paul said to “honor thy father and thy mother…” which is a part of the Ten Commandments written in the Book of Exodus and in Deuteronomy by Moses.

Your implication that Ephesians 6:2-3 is not of the Law rather it is a commandment is farther from the truth. If we let the scriptures speaks on this matter as of the above, we find that Jesus is referring to the commandments as the law.
In John 7:19 Jesus said “Did not Moses give you the law, and yet none of you keepeth the law? Why go ye about to kill me?” Jesus really knows too well of the Ten Commandment “Thou shalt not kill”. In essence, Jesus is saying why kill me, are you not keeping the law? So…this is yet another example from the scriptures that the Ten Commandments is the same/considered as the Law.

Seems you are building your case on the premise of law. You asked me to read Galatians 3, and I say it that this have been read over and over for how many times. Now it’s also my turn to request, please expound Galatian 3. This is your time, this is your space.

Thanks,

 

[fredoheaven]

It is okay if you tithe. that is between you and God.

Umm...okay

 

[Meggido]

The demon spirit of mammon is real and alive. He does not care if you keep one foot in the Water that goes "ankle deep (salvation and not sanctification) (Ezekiel 47)," while the another ankle remains dry (in the world - James 1:8, James 4:4) and trust in flesh. (Jeremiah 17:5)

Remember Lot's wife! Luke 9:62

It is good to see the convicting Power of the Holy Spirit trying to help you.

You sound like your false teacher swaggert right here...full of pride, insolence for others in the body, dismissal of others in the body over your superior Private revelations and raw arrogance...swaggites are dangerous and so are you...