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Circumcision came before the law of Moses and the commandment to be circumcised was given by God Himself to Abraham and his descendants if they wanted to be in the covenant.
Sounds pretty convincing - you could see where those baby Christians in Galatia would fall for this. Paul said that they had deserted Christ for "another gospel" because of circumcision.
Sounds pretty convincing - you could see where those baby Christians in Galatia would fall for this. Paul said that they had deserted Christ for "another gospel" because of circumcision.
B
First of all, you are comparing apples and oranges. Tithing was part of the law. Hell has to do with those who are not saved or those severed from Christ for trying to be justified following or keeping the law instead of accepting the gift of salvation as opposed to trying to earn it. I responded with a question as an attempt to bring you to reality and also to show the absurdity of your question. it is written: For since the law has but as hadow of the good things to come instead of the true form of these realities, it can never, by the same sacrifices that are continually offered every year,make perfect those who draw near. Heb. 10:1 . (such as yourself)
You need to read Gal. 3 carefully, pray and deliberate on it. Your eternal soul depends on it.
Paul didn't bind tithing (the Law) on anyone. This is your opinion and a very poor inference of Scripture. Don't add to Scripture or take away. The NT teaches giving not tithing; It is more blessed to give than to receive. Give not 10% friend, give it all as Jesus taught; then you'll never think or preach about tithing again. Luke 14:33
This is rubbish.
God bless you too, and may you come to the knowledge of truth.
You need to read Gal. 3 carefully, pray and deliberate on it. Your eternal soul depends on it.
Paul didn't bind tithing (the Law) on anyone. This is your opinion and a very poor inference of Scripture. Don't add to Scripture or take away. The NT teaches giving not tithing; It is more blessed to give than to receive. Give not 10% friend, give it all as Jesus taught; then you'll never think or preach about tithing again. Luke 14:33
This is rubbish.
God bless you too, and may you come to the knowledge of truth.
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Tithing only became a part of the law to begin with. Originally, it is not of the law. It is of the promise. You see, you have not yet given a specific verse to refute tithing. Your Hebrews 10:1 has nothing to do with tithe! Sacrifices and offerings have something to do with what the Lord Jesus did for redemption. Are you now comparing apples from oranges? You think tithes can save? It seems it’s you who is trying to impose to someone who doesn’t really adhere that tithes can save. In reality, you trying to make me believe that tithe is connected to the sacrificial offering of Christ at Calvary. No way, Hebrews 10:1 is not about tithe as per context or the whole chapter and indeed is irrelevant to the topic at hand.
Let me see it this way, seems it’s you now you who speak much of the Law. Let me try another example because you are talking about the Law. Paul talks about honoring our parents as in Ephesians 6:2-3 citing Exodus 30:12. Is this Law have been broken? No and no my friend, this Law is still in effect.
“Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.”
Off course, I speak of faith and, I didn’t add or take away scriptures. I just cited scriptures. While giving is taught in the NT, tithe also is being taught in the NT. Jesus said it! The unknown writer of the Book of Hebrews told it! Giving for me is alright and must be taught which depends on one’s faith. The principle taught in giving is “sow much reap much, sow sparingly reap sparingly”. No problem with that but it does not even by slightest degree you have refuted tithe. You said “give not 10%” actually tithe is “returning”, the tithe is the Lords. Now you are now going back where Jesus taught before he died and resurrected making a reference to Luke 14 and that’s great. The point is we can always refer back to what Jesus said. If Jesus is true to giving then he is also true to tithing. Hebrews says Jesus is High Priest and every believer is a priest.
Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
“Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise
That it may be well with thee, and thou mayest live long on the earth.”
Off course, I speak of faith and, I didn’t add or take away scriptures. I just cited scriptures. While giving is taught in the NT, tithe also is being taught in the NT. Jesus said it! The unknown writer of the Book of Hebrews told it! Giving for me is alright and must be taught which depends on one’s faith. The principle taught in giving is “sow much reap much, sow sparingly reap sparingly”. No problem with that but it does not even by slightest degree you have refuted tithe. You said “give not 10%” actually tithe is “returning”, the tithe is the Lords. Now you are now going back where Jesus taught before he died and resurrected making a reference to Luke 14 and that’s great. The point is we can always refer back to what Jesus said. If Jesus is true to giving then he is also true to tithing. Hebrews says Jesus is High Priest and every believer is a priest.
Hebrews 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;
1 Peter 2:9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light:
tithing, i think you misunderstood what i was saying,
melchizedek brought out bread and wine. bread always represents the word! wine represents the Holy Spirit! Abraham in return for the word of God, and a heavy dose of the Holy Spirit, gave the deliverer of the word and spirit 10% of his bounty.
If your in a church, and the man is not feeding you either bread or wine, the church is dead, that would mean that all who attend said church are dead also.
The preacher, pastor or teacher, should always be delivering the word. The living word. Reading to the congregation, and telling stories doesn't constitute receiving the word. Remember Jesus said " my sheep hear my voice" that should also include those in charge of the sheep. When you give, give with a joyful heart, if you have to decide whether a church is deserving or not, than it probably isn't.
melchizedek brought out bread and wine. bread always represents the word! wine represents the Holy Spirit! Abraham in return for the word of God, and a heavy dose of the Holy Spirit, gave the deliverer of the word and spirit 10% of his bounty.
If your in a church, and the man is not feeding you either bread or wine, the church is dead, that would mean that all who attend said church are dead also.
The preacher, pastor or teacher, should always be delivering the word. The living word. Reading to the congregation, and telling stories doesn't constitute receiving the word. Remember Jesus said " my sheep hear my voice" that should also include those in charge of the sheep. When you give, give with a joyful heart, if you have to decide whether a church is deserving or not, than it probably isn't.
Okay, thanks, i have to re-read...but initially, this has nothing to do with tithe, more of circumcision...
Try reading Galatians 3 with the concept of tithing in your head instead of circumcision. Did you receive the Spirit by tithing, or by hearing with faith? Having begun by the Spirit, are you now being perfected by the flesh? (and so on).
J
how people just love twisting the bible,remember the eating of bread and wine,is symbolic,Jesus gave unto his disciples both of these to give a good representation of what was to happen to him,and yes it is of spiritual value to give both for reminder of the passover,and of the sacrifice Jesus went through for us,but to say that a whole church is dead spiritually for not serving bread or wine for this tradition is inaccurate for there is no scripture in the bible that it is accounted that the representation of Jesus's body and blood must be bread and wine,this is your "opinion" not fact,noone in the bible actually promotes the use of wine either,it was merely what Jesus chose for the disciples to represent his death,that they would understand that everything they had whether food or drink or other blessings would forever be by way of Jesus's dieing for their sins,and them being witnesses that they would be able to explain in a simplified way of Jesus's death,burial,and resurrection,observing to partake of this tradion of food and drink is indeed spiritually good,but the food and drink are to be as close to accurate to what Jesus served,but they must not be anything that will cause one to be a drunkard,for example think ye that a child should have actual wine seeing as that they are innocent?
nay for it is written "if any should offend a child it would be better that a mill stone be cast about their neck and thrown into the sea"(Jesus spoke this very clearly to his disciples)so anything that could keep a child from God is not to be given them nor are any to force religion upon them,to learn the "truth" of what is written in God's word read the bible alongside the holy spirit"spiritually" not "physically" for it is not like a book or newspaper that can be understood in mere minutes,nor from just a portion,one must be willing to learn "all" of God's Word to receive understanding,and be willing to honestly"teach" God's word,and be sure to speak of what is "Truly" written not what one thinks!
nay for it is written "if any should offend a child it would be better that a mill stone be cast about their neck and thrown into the sea"(Jesus spoke this very clearly to his disciples)so anything that could keep a child from God is not to be given them nor are any to force religion upon them,to learn the "truth" of what is written in God's word read the bible alongside the holy spirit"spiritually" not "physically" for it is not like a book or newspaper that can be understood in mere minutes,nor from just a portion,one must be willing to learn "all" of God's Word to receive understanding,and be willing to honestly"teach" God's word,and be sure to speak of what is "Truly" written not what one thinks!
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J
actually everybody to think more in depth about "Tithing/offering" remember ye how Jesus saw a woman whom gave two wheat pennies for Tithing/Offerring and Jesus said"I say unto ye that this woman has given more than all of these(other people in room)for she hath given all she has,where as these have merely given from their abundance"(as in they were well off yet gave simply 10% instead of thinking to give more to God,when it would not have hurt their finances)so when one thinks of Tithing/Offering,money comes to mind,and for some Jesus paying Our Tithes,comes to mind,but what of ourselves,is it not written that one is to love God with all their strength body mind and soul,so to do that think ye that we can do more than just "enough" for God,For hasn't he given us life,has he not given us a world to live in,and many other blessings that many take for granted,so why not do more for God by giving of ourselves as our Tithes/Offering to God for what he expects from us is not heated debates over who is right and who is wrong,but a few simple yet difficult things for many to give of themselves that God asks of us,
1.Money offering,simple enough many can see fit to give 10% but what of those whom don't have it,can you not give more than your share to do right for God?
2.Time,Do you make time for God in your life to go to God's house or at the very least thanked him sincerely for what you have?
3.Prayer,Have you given of yourself by praying for others,whom are less fortunate or are struggling,or could use guidance from God?
4.Love and Compassion,have you given of yourself by sharing God's love by helping your neighbors and not just your friends and relatives?
5.Endurance,have you been spreading God's word and teaching it where you can and when asked,without fear of what may befall you by serving God devoutly?
All of these are considered Tithes/Offering to God because they are all giving of yourself,so in essence Tithing is not Just in regards to mere currency or Jesus's dieing for us but rather what we can do for God faithfully and willingly so as to show that We appreciate what has been given us not because of the old line"well we have to..." but rather because "You" actually want to give unto God in someway that is right in his eyes for God has had his fill of money offerings,drink offerings,and meat offerings,but what he really would appreciate is "US" because We are his children and he would like to walk alongside us,and know that he has our appreciation and our devotion!
1.Money offering,simple enough many can see fit to give 10% but what of those whom don't have it,can you not give more than your share to do right for God?
2.Time,Do you make time for God in your life to go to God's house or at the very least thanked him sincerely for what you have?
3.Prayer,Have you given of yourself by praying for others,whom are less fortunate or are struggling,or could use guidance from God?
4.Love and Compassion,have you given of yourself by sharing God's love by helping your neighbors and not just your friends and relatives?
5.Endurance,have you been spreading God's word and teaching it where you can and when asked,without fear of what may befall you by serving God devoutly?
All of these are considered Tithes/Offering to God because they are all giving of yourself,so in essence Tithing is not Just in regards to mere currency or Jesus's dieing for us but rather what we can do for God faithfully and willingly so as to show that We appreciate what has been given us not because of the old line"well we have to..." but rather because "You" actually want to give unto God in someway that is right in his eyes for God has had his fill of money offerings,drink offerings,and meat offerings,but what he really would appreciate is "US" because We are his children and he would like to walk alongside us,and know that he has our appreciation and our devotion!
Tithing was before the Law Genesis 14:19-20 "“Blessed be Abram of God Most High,Possessor of heaven and earth;
20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all."
Abraham was before the law, yet in was in his heart to give a tenth of what he had to the priest of the most high. Could this mean that those that did not have this in their hearts are not of the most high? I do not know, you will have to wrestle with the Scriptures for yourself, but to say that tithing is from the Law is not true, it was before the Law. The Law endorsed it to help support the priesthood, the tabernacle or temple, so that Israel could have those to administer the sacrifices for the people.
Are we to bring a tenth of all our food and goods to the Church? What's in your heart? The reality is that the Church was started in Israel and everything in Israel was by inheritance, land, housing and food. The early Church sold all of what they could of their inheritance according to the Law, to support the Church. Do we need to do that now? No, we give what is in our hearts as you mentioned. Our father Abraham had in his heart to give 10% of all he had to the priest of the most high. The tenth is the guide line. If you have ever been to Israel they have kibbutz, that are communal living, where all is for the collective community, everyone lives together and works together for the common good, as the Church did in the first century. Things have changed quite a bit since the first century, so the Church is guided by what is in their heart and if tithing is a problem in your heart, maybe you need to check your heart. not the fellowship. because the Bible has tithing many years before the Law and the Law is specific as to what it is for, but Abraham gave it willingly and for no specific purpose. It was to the most high alone, so give to the Lord and if you see abuses, then think about where you give. If you are being feed where you go to Church, give, if not look for a place that feeds you and give.
20 And blessed be God Most High,
Who has delivered your enemies into your hand.”
And he gave him a tithe of all."
Abraham was before the law, yet in was in his heart to give a tenth of what he had to the priest of the most high. Could this mean that those that did not have this in their hearts are not of the most high? I do not know, you will have to wrestle with the Scriptures for yourself, but to say that tithing is from the Law is not true, it was before the Law. The Law endorsed it to help support the priesthood, the tabernacle or temple, so that Israel could have those to administer the sacrifices for the people.
Are we to bring a tenth of all our food and goods to the Church? What's in your heart? The reality is that the Church was started in Israel and everything in Israel was by inheritance, land, housing and food. The early Church sold all of what they could of their inheritance according to the Law, to support the Church. Do we need to do that now? No, we give what is in our hearts as you mentioned. Our father Abraham had in his heart to give 10% of all he had to the priest of the most high. The tenth is the guide line. If you have ever been to Israel they have kibbutz, that are communal living, where all is for the collective community, everyone lives together and works together for the common good, as the Church did in the first century. Things have changed quite a bit since the first century, so the Church is guided by what is in their heart and if tithing is a problem in your heart, maybe you need to check your heart. not the fellowship. because the Bible has tithing many years before the Law and the Law is specific as to what it is for, but Abraham gave it willingly and for no specific purpose. It was to the most high alone, so give to the Lord and if you see abuses, then think about where you give. If you are being feed where you go to Church, give, if not look for a place that feeds you and give.
how does melchizedek equate to the passover and/or communion. bible always defines bible, so if melchizedek gave bread and wine, then it stands to reason that there is more to it than just tradition. It is written "you are a priest after the order of melchizedek" that would be Jesus.
Bread has always been, the representation of the word. As to the wine, obviously though your heart be pious, I.E. your opening statement. The wedding Jesus attended, to you a cool story, to me a wonderful story of the Love of God
The earthen vessels are men the water, that fills it is the Holy Spirit. The servants are God's messengers. The wine is the fruit of the spirit. and the guest of honor said, "you have saved the best wine for last."
if you or any of you would let the bible define itself, you would go far.
as to the symbolic bread and wine, of the last supper, i can only say wow,
for if you take and eat not discerning the body of Jesus, you will be weak, sick, even unto death. Its not a tradition, it is the life of a believer. You should as the disciple prayer states "Give me this day my daily bread". is that literal or spiritual
The traditions of men have made as in (your account) null and void.
melchizedek threw a party, and because it went well, abraham gave him 10%, and if Jesus is a priest after the order of melchizedek. Does this mean Jesus threw a party, and we are invited. That's sarcasm,
The problem with some children is they have been led away, and is a bugger to get them to come back.
quick story on children. When i was a child, i thought as a child, i knew as a child, but when i became a man i put away childish things. Paul wasn't speaking of under a certain age. He was a learned man, and still oversaw the stoning of steven. (Childish), an innocent man
Jesus on the other hand was confronted with an obviously guilty woman.
he thought, and then he wrote, and then he questioned the accusers. because of his mature ministry he released a guilty woman. This is the same Jesus, that is willing to release all who are guilty. Childish people condemn.
May our Father richly bless you!
Bread has always been, the representation of the word. As to the wine, obviously though your heart be pious, I.E. your opening statement. The wedding Jesus attended, to you a cool story, to me a wonderful story of the Love of God
The earthen vessels are men the water, that fills it is the Holy Spirit. The servants are God's messengers. The wine is the fruit of the spirit. and the guest of honor said, "you have saved the best wine for last."
if you or any of you would let the bible define itself, you would go far.
as to the symbolic bread and wine, of the last supper, i can only say wow,
for if you take and eat not discerning the body of Jesus, you will be weak, sick, even unto death. Its not a tradition, it is the life of a believer. You should as the disciple prayer states "Give me this day my daily bread". is that literal or spiritual
The traditions of men have made as in (your account) null and void.
melchizedek threw a party, and because it went well, abraham gave him 10%, and if Jesus is a priest after the order of melchizedek. Does this mean Jesus threw a party, and we are invited. That's sarcasm,
The problem with some children is they have been led away, and is a bugger to get them to come back.
quick story on children. When i was a child, i thought as a child, i knew as a child, but when i became a man i put away childish things. Paul wasn't speaking of under a certain age. He was a learned man, and still oversaw the stoning of steven. (Childish), an innocent man
Jesus on the other hand was confronted with an obviously guilty woman.
he thought, and then he wrote, and then he questioned the accusers. because of his mature ministry he released a guilty woman. This is the same Jesus, that is willing to release all who are guilty. Childish people condemn.
May our Father richly bless you!
Those who do not make God First with the tenth of their income are under a curse. That person(s) has initiated judicial blindness (God sees to it that your spiritual insight gets worse because of your heart hardiness when you reject truth) (Romans 11:7-8).
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8
Read it again! Those who do not make God First with the tenth of their income are under a curse. That person(s) has initiated judicial blindness (God sees to it that your spiritual insight gets worse because of your heart hardiness when you reject truth) (Romans 11:7-8).
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8
For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest he also spare not thee. Romans 11:21
For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:21 NIV
(According as it is written, God hath given them the spirit of slumber, eyes that they should not see, and ears that they should not hear unto this day (refers to a condition that will not correct itself, but will actually grow worse). Romans 11:8
For if God spared not the natural branches (Israel), take heed lest he also spare not thee. Romans 11:21
For if God did not spare the natural branches, he will not spare you either. Romans 11:21 NIV
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