The Rapture
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But that does not square with what GOD SAID:
Jeremiah 31:33-34 (ESV)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, declares the LORD: I will put my law within them, and I will write it on their hearts. And I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
[SUP]34 [/SUP] And no longer shall each one teach his neighbor and each his brother, saying, ‘Know the LORD,’ for they shall all know me, from the least of them to the greatest, declares the LORD. For I will forgive their iniquity, and I will remember their sin no more.”
Hebrews 8:9-12 (NCV)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] It will not be like the agreement I made with their ancestors when I took them by the hand to bring them out of Egypt. But they broke that agreement, and I turned away from them, says the Lord.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] This is the agreement I will make with the people of Israel at that time, says the Lord. I will put my teachings in their minds and write them on their hearts. I will be their God, and they will be my people.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] People will no longer have to teach their neighbors and relatives to know the Lord, because all people will know me, from the least to the most important.
[SUP]12 [/SUP] I will forgive them for the wicked things they did, and I will not remember their sins anymore.“
Note, the primary message of the Church Age, is that sinners must KNOW THE LORD, and clearly that same message was true in Jeremiah's Day; which is further evidence of our COMMON FAITH, the Faith of Abraham. And those verses are talking about prophecy that is STILL IN THE FUTURE, because we are STILL a long ways from everyone KNOWING THE LORD. If that is talking about recognizing Who He is, it will not be TRUE until AFTER His Second Coming when HE is ruling from the throne of David for a 1000 Years. IF it is talking about an inner personal KNOWING HIM with that everlasting LOVE RELATIONSHIP of genuinely being BORN AGAIN, that will not happen until we enter the ETERNAL STATE after His thousand year Reign from the Throne of David.
NOTICE, there is a Time when HE WILL FORGIVE ISRAEL, and GOD certainly is not DONE WITH ISRAEL.
Ezekiel 36:8-11 (NRSV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But you, O mountains of Israel, shall shoot out your branches, and yield your fruit to my people Israel; for they shall soon come home.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] See now, I am for you; I will turn to you, and you shall be tilled and sown;
[SUP]10 [/SUP] and I will multiply your population, the whole house of Israel, all of it; the towns shall be inhabited and the waste places rebuilt;
[SUP]11 [/SUP] and I will multiply human beings and animals upon you. They shall increase and be fruitful; and I will cause you to be inhabited as in your former times, and will do more good to you than ever before. Then you shall know that I am the LORD.
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Let's test and see if what you say is true.
Hebrews 8:7-11 KJV
For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
[8] For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
[9] Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
[10] For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Finding fault with the first covenant with Israel, God said I will make a new covenant with them.
The NEW covenant starting when Christ came the first time was - I will put my laws into their mind, and write them on their hearts and I will be their God and they shall be my people.
RESULT - Jeremiah 31:33-34 is not future, it was fulfilled in the new covenant when Christ came the 1st time.
garee can you please tell me how amillennialism is the best fit in your opinion?
Lets look into it, according to yall we are at Revelation 20, the devil is bound (dont die laughing, lets assume he is bound) from deceiving the nations.
So are yall saying that Jesus returned already? Because at Revelation 19 Jesus returns and then in Chapter 20 satan is bound. So how does that work?
Lets look into it, according to yall we are at Revelation 20, the devil is bound (dont die laughing, lets assume he is bound) from deceiving the nations.
So are yall saying that Jesus returned already? Because at Revelation 19 Jesus returns and then in Chapter 20 satan is bound. So how does that work?
Wait, nobody is teaching their neighbors? Everybody knows the Lord? what universe am I in.
Hebrews laid out the new covenant, are you trying to say that Israel is still under the old covenant? Or are you trying to say there's gonna be a third covenant where every body teaches his neighbor and everybody knows the Lord?
Right,Jesus said go and preach the Gospel to every creature,and how does everyone know the Lord,and the Gospel must be preached in to all the world,and then comes the end,so there is a whole lot of preaching going on,which means everybody does not know the Lord.
This is not the Church,it is physical Israel,and is in the future when God puts them on their land,and turns their heart to the truth that Jesus is their Savior,and then from that day forward they shall know the Lord,for He shall not hide His face from them anymore.
When God puts physical Israel back in their land,and turns them to the truth,then they will be spiritual.
Eze 39:25 Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Now will I bring again the captivity of Jacob, and have mercy upon the whole house of Israel, and will be jealous for my holy name;
Eze 39:26 After that they have borne their shame, and all their trespasses whereby they have trespassed against me, when they dwelt safely in their land, and none made them afraid.
Eze 39:27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
Eze 39:28 Then shall they know that I am the LORD their God, which caused them to be led into captivity among the heathen: but I have gathered them unto their own land, and have left none of them any more there.
Eze 39:29 Neither will I hide my face any more from them: for I have poured out my spirit upon the house of Israel, saith the Lord GOD.
Zec 14:9 And the LORD shall be king over all the earth: in that day shall there be one LORD, and his name one.
Isa 11:9 They shall not hurt nor destroy in all my holy mountain: for the earth shall be full of the knowledge of the LORD, as the waters cover the sea.
Zec 14:16 And it shall come to pass, that every one that is left of all the nations which came against Jerusalem shall even go up from year to year to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, and to keep the feast of tabernacles.
Zec 14:17 And it shall be, that whoso will not come up of all the families of the earth unto Jerusalem to worship the King, the LORD of hosts, even upon them shall be no rain.
The kingdom restored to Israel in the future,then no one will have to teach their neighbor,and everyone shall know the Lord.amd Jesus and the saints will rule over one sixth of the world that attacked Israel,and the heathen will only acknowledge Jesus and no one else,for that sure did not happen in the past.
Hebrews says that verse 11 was fulfilled in the new covenant.
Hebrews 8:10-11 KJV
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
[11] And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
Verse 11 trips you up because of your dispie bias.
Read those 2 verses carefully and you will see that ALL doesn't mean all people on the earth, it means ALL that God has put his laws in their mind and hearts - ALL that are his people... They don't need the Jewish establishment to teach them any more, they are all taught of God.Christ has one Kingdom.
When he returns to rule the Earth it is his Parousia - known generally as the Second Coming. Jesus ruling on earth. Parousia means presence.
The verse you quoted refers to the erchomai of Jesus. Jesus coming to his Kingdom. So I speculate that means that when the Father destroyed Jerusalem in AD70, Jesus ascended to the Throne Of David in heaven. I.E. Jesus came to his throne.
The abomination was done in AD70 read Matthew 23 and 24 Jesus told his disciples that not one stone would be left on another. He was talking about the present temple not a mythical one that supposed to be built today. Actually another Temple would be an abomination in itself. Jesus ended the temple worship and sacrificial system by his death and resurrection. He is now our high priest. The whole temple based religion was a shadow of his sacrifice for sin. In Luke 21 the phrase Abomination of Desolation is replaced by Armies surrounding Jerusalem. The City is holy and was desecrated along with the temple. If people read more of Pauls letters they would see clearly where Christians stand in relation to Christ.
Paul said that in the last days people would gather teachers and have itching ears. and turn their attention to Fables. People would rather read Le Hayes fantasy's than read the truth. If someone wants to read Christian books about the last days they should read those written by leading well known writers prior to 1830 when the whole dispensationalist heresy took root in the Churches.
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First counter point:
Day Two since the day Christ walked and taught in Israel is NOT EVEN OVER YET.
2 Peter 3:8-10 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But, beloved, do not forget this one thing, that with the Lord one day is as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some count slackness, but is longsuffering toward us, not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up.
You not only forget it, but seriously give proof that you NEVER READ IT, OR TOTALLY DO NOT BELIEVE IT.
Second counter point:
You clearly do a VERY POOR JOB of reading the Scriptures, paying attention ONLY to the parts of Scripture that YOU THINK fit your Presuppositions.
Matthew 24:29-35 (HCSB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] “Immediately after the tribulation of those days: The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken.
[SUP]30 [/SUP] “Thenthe sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.
[SUP]31 [/SUP] He will send out His angels with a loud trumpet, and they will gather His elect from the four winds, from one end of the sky to the other.
[SUP]32 [/SUP] “Now learn this parable from the fig tree: As soon as its branch becomes tender and sprouts leaves, you know that summer is near.
[SUP]33 [/SUP] In the same way, when you see all these things, recognize that He is near—at the door!
[SUP]34 [/SUP] I assure you: This generation will certainly not pass away until all these things take place.
[SUP]35 [/SUP] Heaven and earth will pass away, but My words will never pass away.
CLEARLY "This generation" is the same FUTURE generation that HE says "they will see" in the future during "those days" when "The sun will be darkened, and the moon will not shed its light; the stars will fall from the sky, and the celestial powers will be shaken. Thenthe sign of the Son of Man will appear in the sky, and then all the peoples of the earth will mourn; and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory." THAT is the GENERATION HE IS TALKING ABOUT, STILL IN THE FUTURE.
NOTICE it says ALL THE PEOPLES OF THE EARTH shall mourn, WHICH IS A CLEAR INDICATION THE CHURCH HAS BEEN REMOVED FROM THE EARTH, because we would be CHEERING WITH JOHN, "EVEN SO, COME LORD JESUS!"
YES INDEED, When HE calls us out to go to the Wedding of the Lamb, we do not taste death first, but OUR BODIES WILL CHANGED IN THE TWINKLING OF AN EYE. That is a Jewish expression for such a minute fraction of time, it cannot be measured.
We can all and should get down off the throne in our hearts and willingly out of LOVE for HIM, give him that throne. However, what it is talking about in Prophecy is the DAY HE SITS DOWN ON THE THRONE OF DAVID, IN JERUSALEM here on Earth, and will Reign for a thousand years.
Zechariah 14:4-9 (HCSB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] On that day His feet will stand on the Mount of Olives, which faces Jerusalem on the east. The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] You will flee by My mountain valley, for the valley of the mountains will extend to Azal. You will flee as you fled from the earthquake in the days of Uzziah king of Judah. Then the LORD my God will come and all the holy ones with Him.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] On that day there will be no light; the sunlight and moonlight will diminish.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] It will be a day known ⌊only⌋ to Yahweh, without day or night, but there will be light at evening.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] On that day living water will flow out from Jerusalem, half of it toward the eastern sea and the other half toward the western sea, in summer and winter alike.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] On that day Yahweh will become King over all the earth—Yahweh alone, and His name alone.
By the way, file that verse in your memory, IT IS A GREAT VERSE TO PROVE THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST.
I say yes he is king and is on the throne now. The devil and his angels have ALWAYS been the servants of God.
That is a good question Issachar92. And I would add, did Rev.19:11-21, which is the same event just with more detail, happen yet? And, did all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments take place before that event?
I continue to tell these people who believe that all end-time events were accomplished in 70 AD have no understanding about what is still to come upon the earth.
They have watered down, diluted, pacified, the events of the Day of the Lord, that hour of trial, the wrath of God.
They have not understood the severity of God's wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.
They don't understand that all of these events of wrath are to take place in conjunction with the Lord's physical and visual return to the earth to end the age. And not the end of Israel's age, as some have created, but the end of the age for the world. The end of all human government and the establishment of Christ's millennial kingdom.
WOW, you all have been busy posting. I was sick in bed for two days, and I just got back to checking this site, and was ten pages behind, but while I checked those ten, TWO more were added. Hope I did not miss any posted to me. Good Job of keeping it going every one.