The Rapture

Ahwatukee · Jun 14, 2017

Hello Muzungu256,

What does premillennialism have to do with people dying in the millennial kingdom? I think that you have been confused with all of these false teachings that go on here.

The scripture which says, " flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and that death is swallowed up in victory," is referring to those who will have died in Christ who will be resurrected and those living who will be changed into those immortal and glorified bodies. Since Jesus is descending in the atmosphere to gather us, we cannot remain in these bodies that decay and that have the sinful nature, ergo, "flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God and that because we need to be changed into those immortal and glorified, heavenly bodies. "death being swallowed up in victory" is referring to those who are gathered at the resurrection and the rest of the world is not included. Those people during the millennial period will still be in their mortal bodies and their sinful nature. And if they do not turn to Christ during that time, the will die in their sins and will be held accountable for every sin they committed in life. Those who never receive Christ and die in their sins, death is not swallowed up in victory for them and never will be. In fact, the second death will have power over them.

Muzungu256 · Jun 14, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

but isnt millennial = God's kingdom??????? why are the unsaved mortals there

PlainWord · Jun 14, 2017

AHW,

Can you be more precise. I told you what Titus did, now tell me exactly, what will the AC do to Israel that will be worse? 93% dead, nation destroyed and wiped from the planet. Remaining 7% abused and killed. Nation ends for 1947 years. Will the future AC kill 99% and cause Israel to cease as a nation for 3,000 years or what? What does the future AC do???????

More than 93%??

You mean like the Christians who fled over the mountains to Pella and avoided Titus' attack on Jerusalem? So, this will happen again?

Oh, I do. 22 [FONT=&quot]For these are the days of vengeance, that all things which are written may be fulfilled.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]
[/FONT]All things were fulfilled.

Christ does not return to earth. How did you put it, "arriving on the clouds...?" Christ returned in 70 AD just like He returned here.

[FONT=&quot]3 As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. [/FONT][FONT=&quot][/FONT][FONT=&quot]4 Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?”[/FONT][FONT=&quot]

[/FONT]It was the same kind of return as it was with Saul/Paul. As a bright light, everyone indeed saw Him.

VCO · Jun 14, 2017

J7 said:

You have to KNOW the Jewis Wedding Customs as well as THEY DID, or you will MISS it.

Read my post #22 of this thread on page 2, and I am sure you will understand.

John 14:2-3 (HCSB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] In My Father’s house are many dwelling places; if not, I would have told you.
I am going away to prepare a place for you.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] If I go away and prepare a place for you,
I will come back and receive you to Myself,
so that where I am you may be also.

NOTICE: This is NOT talking about His Second Coming when He sets foot on the Mount of Olives, splitting it in two, just before HE sets up His 1000 Year Earthly Kingdom, reigning from the THRONE OF DAVID. This is talking about us GOING TO HIM, and not about HIS setting foot on this earth again. EVERYONE HE SAID THAT TO, understood perfectly what He was saying, because the JEWISH WEDDING CUSTOMS remained exactly the same for thousands of years. THOSE phrases that I hilighted and underlined, come RIGHT OUT OF A JEWISH WEDDING PROPOSAL. Those, or some words that were very similar, were the words every Bridegroom said just before he left to go prepare the Bridal Chamber, after the Bride accepted His proposal by drinking from cup of wine He passed to her.

Jewish Wedding Customs and their place in Jesus' teachings

PlainWord · Jun 14, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Hi Friend,

The AC was Titus. He did everything we know about the AC. We can all get a good night sleep now

.

Muzungu256 · Jun 14, 2017

why does isaiah say new heaven and earth have death???????????

"See, I will create new heavens and a new earth. The former things will not be remembered, nor will they come to mind. Isaiah 65:17

"Never again will there be in it an infant who lives but a few days, or an old man who does not live out his years; the one who dies at a hundred will be thought a mere child; the one who fails to reach a hundred will be considered accursed. Isaiah 65:20

heelp

Ahwatukee · Jun 14, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Hello Muzungu256,

That scripture is not in reference to the new heaven and new earth, but are the characteristics of the millennial period. Obviously since death is thrown into the lake of fire at the great white throne judgment, which takes place prior to the new heaven and earth, then death cannot be in operation during the eternal state.

That scripture is demonstrating that, the length of age during the millennial period will be like it was prior to the flood, where people lived to be 800 and 900 years old. This is deduced by the fact that the scripture says, "a man dies at a hundred will be thought to be a mere child."

Ahwatukee · Jun 14, 2017

That time of great tribulation that Jesus speaks of, is not only about what happens to Israel and that's one of your problems. You're not including the fatalities and destruction of that will result from the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

During that time, God will be taking care of the fulfillment of the last seven years of the seventy sevens that were decreed upon Israel and He will be pouring out his wrath upon a Christ rejecting world. You're looking at the great tribulation in regards to Israel only. You need to broaden your understanding by including the entire earth. Regarding the tribulation/great tribulation involving all of the inhabitants of the earth, notice what the following scriptures say:

"Be careful, or your hearts will be weighed down with carousing, drunkenness and the anxieties of life, and that day will close on you suddenly like a trap. For it will come on all those who live on the face of the whole earth."

"Since you have kept my command to endure patiently, I will also keep you from the hour of trial that is going to come on [the whole world] to test [the inhabitants of the earth].

"For at that time there will be great tribulation, unmatched from the beginning of the world until now, and never to be seen again. If those days had not been cut short, nobody would be saved. But for the sake of the elect, those days will be shortened.

Regarding this time of wrath, the day of the Lord, God also said through Zephaniah:

"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” says the Lord.“I will sweep away people and animals alike.
I will sweep away the birds of the sky and the fish in the sea.
I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, and I will wipe humanity from the face of the earth,” says the Lord." (Zeph.1:1-3)

"See, the day of the Lord is coming—a cruel day, with wrath and fierce anger—to make the land desolate and destroy the sinners within it. The stars of heaven and their constellations will not show their light. The rising sun will be darkened and the moon will not give its light. I, the Lord, will punish the world for its evil and the wicked for their sin. I will crush the arrogance of the proud and humble the pride of the mighty. I will make people scarcer than gold—more rare than the fine gold of Ophir.
For I will shake the heavens. The earth will move from its place when the Lord
of Heaven’s Armies displays his wrath in the day of his fierce anger.” (Isa.13:9-13)

God's time of wrath and the great tribulation are not only about Israel, but the entire world. This is demonstrated in Nebuchadnezzar's statue, which represents all Gentiles.

Babylon = Head of gold

Medo/Persia = Chest and arms of silver

Greece = Belly and thighs of bronze

Rome = Legs of iron

Future extension of Rome = Feet of partly iron and partly baked clay

Do you see Israel in that list anywhere? These are all Gentile kingdoms, the ten-toed kingdom being that kingdom yet to come.

And then what happens?

The Rock that is cut out of the mountain without human hands (Jesus) falls on the feet of the statue (Gentile kingdoms), smashing them to pieces like chaff on a threshing floor and blown away by the wind without leaving a trace (end of human government). Then the Rock that fell on the feet of the statue becomes a huge mountain and fills the entire earth (Christ's millennial kingdom).

There will be different programs going on during that time for the Israel, the 144,000, the great tribulation saints and the rest of the Christ rejecting world, those who worship the beast, his image and receive his mark.

Understand then, that the time of God's wrath is not just about Israel, but the whole world.

VCO · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

You are confused because of a simple, easy to make mistake. You are not understanding that the 1000 year Earthly Kingdom where He was prophesied to REIGN over the whole Earth from David's Throne, is not the Eternal Kingdom in the Eternal State on the New Heaven and the New Earth. Technically the Eternal Kingdom begins in your heart when you confess you are a Sinner to HIM, and surrender control of your life TO JESUS CHRIST out of LOVE FOR HIM. When HE says Flesh and Blood cannot inherit the Kingdom, He is talking about the Eternal Kingdom of GOD, where where we will before HIM in the the Throne Room in Heaven. That is why it says in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye we shall be Changed. YES WE WILL STILL HAVE A LIVING BODY like Christ's, but apparently that body will not need blood, because the Life in that Glorified body comes from CHRIST HIMSELF.

Luke 24:37-43 (NCV)
[SUP]37 [/SUP] They were fearful and terrified and thought they were seeing a ghost.
[SUP]38 [/SUP] But Jesus said, “Why are you troubled? Why do you doubt what you see?
[SUP]39 [/SUP] Look at my hands and my feet. It is I myself! Touch me and see, because a ghost does not have a living body as you see I have.“
[SUP]40 [/SUP] After Jesus said this, he showed them his hands and feet.
[SUP]41 [/SUP] While they still could not believe it because they were amazed and happy, Jesus said to them, “Do you have any food here?“
[SUP]42 [/SUP] They gave him a piece of broiled fish.
[SUP]43 [/SUP] While the followers watched, Jesus took the fish and ate it.

There is JESUS proving that HIS Resurrected Body was still a physical living body, but IMMORTAL. The Blood is identified with MORTAL BEINGS, not ETERNAL BEINGS. Jesus is our HIGH PRIEST, and after the sin Sacrifice, the HIGH Priest would take some of the Sacrificial Blood and rub it on the horns of the Altar, and then the High Priest would pour out the rest of the Sacrificial Blood around the BASE OF THE ALTAR. That, I believe is the first thing Jesus would have done after ascending to Heaven again.

I believe that is why the portal to HEAVEN is under the altar, so that everyone who enters heaven is literally entering through the blood of Jesus.

Revelation 6:9-11 (HCSB)
[SUP]9 [/SUP] When He opened the fifth seal, I saw under the altar the people slaughtered because of God’s word and the testimony they had.
[SUP]10 [/SUP] They cried out with a loud voice: “Lord, the One who is holy and true, how long until You judge and avenge our blood from those who live on the earth?”
[SUP]11 [/SUP] So a white robe was given to each of them, and they were told to rest a little while longer until ⌊the number⌋ would be completed ⌊of⌋ their fellow slaves and their brothers, who were going to be killed just as they had been.

When the Antichrist shows his true colors, three and a half years into the Seven Year Peace Treaty he orchestrates with Israel and her enemies, HE sets up his Throne in the Holy of Holies in the Third Temple.

2 Thessalonians 2:1-5 (NKJV)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Now, brethren, concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?

The Antichrist is beheading everyone who will not bow to him as GOD, and showing that allegiance to him by taking the mark, probably an embedded RFID microchip. NO JEW WILL BOW TO ANY DICTATOR that takes over the TEMPLE, demanding to worshiped as God. THUS, they are all being beheaded in the Great Tribulation along with those who come to believe in Jesus Christ during that Great Tribulation. GOD cannot allow the Jews to become extinct because of that SUPER EVIL DICTATOR we call Antichrist; BECAUSE GOD has an EVERLASTING COVENANT with them, giving them the LAND OF CANAAN as an EVERLASTING POSSESSION. GOD's Solution is to SEAL 144,000 of them from any physical harm, during the Great Tribulation. THUS the 144,000 Jews are probably the ONLY MORTAL JEWS LEFT ALIVE, going into CHRIST's 1000 Year Earthly Reign from David's throne. Those 144,000 Mortal Jews will repopulate ISRAEL so that GOD can continue His EVERLASTING COVENANT with them, giving them the land of Canaan as an everlasting inheritance.

Genesis 17:7-8 (ASV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee throughout their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee and to thy seed after thee.
[SUP]8 [/SUP] And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land of thy sojournings, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

1 Chronicles 16:13-18 (NRSV)
[SUP]13 [/SUP] O offspring of his servant Israel, children of Jacob, his chosen ones.
[SUP]14 [/SUP] He is the LORD our God; his judgments are in all the earth.
[SUP]15 [/SUP] Remember his covenant forever, the word that he commanded, for a thousand generations,
[SUP]16 [/SUP] the covenant that he made with Abraham, his sworn promise to Isaac,
[SUP]17 [/SUP] which he confirmed to Jacob as a statute, to Israel as an everlasting covenant,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] saying, "To you I will give the land of Canaan as your portion for an inheritance."

THUS because GOD KEEPS HIS PROMISES, there will be an earthly Kingdom for a thousand years, followed by the Eternal Kingdom. The mortal kingdom is to fulfill his promise to ISRAEL.

Revelation 20:4-8 (ESV)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Then I saw thrones, and seated on them were those to whom the authority to judge was committed. Also I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus and for the word of God, and those who had not worshiped the beast or its image and had not received its mark on their foreheads or their hands. They came to life and reigned with Christ for a thousand years.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] The rest of the dead did not come to life until the thousand years were ended. This is the first resurrection.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Blessed and holy is the one who shares in the first resurrection! Over such the second death has no power, but they will be priests of God and of Christ, and they will reign with him for a thousand years.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] And when the thousand years are ended, Satan will be released from his prison
[SUP]8 [/SUP] and will come out to deceive the nations that are at the four corners of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them for battle; their number is like the sand of the sea. YES I believe Christ will literally wear King David's Crown and sit on David's Throne in the 1000 Year Kingdom in Earthly Jerusalem.

Luke 1:32 (HCSB)
[SUP]32 [/SUP] He will be great and will be called the Son of the Most High, and the Lord God will give Him the throne of His father David.

2 Peter 1:11 (ESV)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] For in this way there will be richly provided for you an entrance into the eternal kingdom of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.

YES the Mortals alive during that 1000 year kingdom certainly include descendants of the 144,000 and perhaps survivors of the Great Tribulation. WE WILL BE IN OUR RESURRECTED, IMMORTAL, GLORIFIED LIVING BODIES.

Isaiah 65:18-21 (GW)
[SUP]18 [/SUP] Be glad, and rejoice forever in what I'm going to create, because I'm going to create Jerusalem to be a delight and its people to be a joy.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] I will rejoice about Jerusalem and be glad about my people. Screaming and crying will no longer be heard in the city.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] There will no longer be an infant who lives for only a few days or an old man who doesn't live a long life. Whoever lives to be a hundred years old will be thought of as young. Whoever dies before he is a hundred years old will be cursed as a sinner.
[SUP]21 [/SUP] They will build houses and live there. They will plant vineyards and eat fruit from them.

PlainWord · Jun 15, 2017

AHW,

As I pointed out previously, in prophesy often times the "earth" are the people of Judah and Israel while the "sea" are the surrounding Gentile nations. The "tribes of the earth" are all Jews regardless of where they are living. You keep thinking of the "earth" as the planet and this is one of the main reasons you are interpreting everything wrong and into the future.

Study Isaiah's and Jeremiah's use of the word "earth" as John uses their symbolism in Rev a lot. You will find many instances where they are speaking of Israel when they say, "earth."

"I will sweep away everything from the face of the earth,” says the Lord.“I will sweep away people and animals alike.
I will sweep away the birds of the sky and the fish in the sea.
I will reduce the wicked to heaps of rubble, and I will wipe humanity from the face of the earth,” says the Lord." (Zeph.1:1-3)

Click to expand...

You just proved my point. You don't understand the context of much of scripture. Zephaniah was the last of the pre-exilic prophets. He was writing BEFORE the Babylonians conquered and exiled Judah. Since Zephaniah predicted the destruction of Nineveh in 612 BC, we know that his prophesy dealt with the first part of the reign of King Josiah. Did the Lord really wipe all of humanity from the face of the earth? Of course not. The Lord threatened to stretch out His hand against Judah v 4, not the whole planet.

Check out 2 Kings 23, God promised to cut off every trace of Ba'al fom the Land. We see that this prophesy was an invitation as if to say, "the idols have to go, you can do it yourself in righteousness or I will do it in judgment." King Josiah decided to direct the war against idols and the nation was blessed.

I say this with love dear brother, you really need to dig deeper to understand the context of scripture and quit assigning everything to the end of the world. While you're at it, try to study how they talked in their days and think of how the world was to them, not to us. This should help you a great deal if you will do these suggestions.

Muzungu256 · Jun 15, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

but it says See I will create new heavens and earth.......... john is quoting this in revelation 21............. maybe isaiah didn't know how to describe what he was seeing???????????????

Muzungu256 · Jun 15, 2017

are you guys saying that new heaven and new earth in isaiah mean the 1000 year kingdom and in revelation 21 it means new jerusalem?????????? the eternity state????????? so there are two new heavens and new earth?

Issachar92 · Jun 15, 2017

VCO said:

Good one! It indeed is the twilight zone theology. The problem with the so called allegorical interpretation method is that nothing means what it says, therefore everything is open to interpretation and 10 people can come up with 10 different ideas.
While the bible said no prophecy is of any private interpretation so I think the "It is written." interpretation is to be favored and its the most clear and straightforward.

You end up with a guru system in amillennialism where you have to ask someone else what does this mean what does that mean because nothing means what it says so you cannot understand it yourself.

VCO · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

The Temporal Kingdom for Mortal descendants of ISRAEL, does not STOP at the end of the Thousand Year Temporal Kingdom. Those TRUE BELEIVERS of Millenium receive their IMMORTAL LIVING BODIES, when CHRIST's final enemy, DEATH is sent to the Lake of Fire for Eternity. And they just slide on into the ETERNAL STATE with us.

Here is what Dr. John MacArthur says about those verses you have questioned:

ONLY WHEN WE ARRIVE AT THE ETERNAL STATE WILL THE CURSE OF ADAM'S ORIGINAL SIN BE DONE AWAY WITH, which does not come until after the Judgement Day.

Revelation 20:14-15 (RSV)
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Then Death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire;
[SUP]15 [/SUP] and if any one's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.

Revelation 22:3-6 (NASB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] There will no longer be any curse; and the throne of God and of the Lamb will be in it, and His bond-servants will serve Him;
[SUP]4 [/SUP] they will see His face, and His name will be on their foreheads.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] And there will no longer be any night; and they will not have need of the light of a lamp nor the light of the sun, because the Lord God will illumine them; and they will reign forever and ever.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] And he said to me, "These words are faithful and true"; and the Lord, the God of the spirits of the prophets, sent His angel to show to His bond-servants the things which must soon take place.

Why does HE say SOON?

I am surprised Dr. John MacArthur did not answer that obvious question, in his Study Bible Notes. But here is the answer:

2 Peter 3:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But do not let this one fact escape your notice, beloved, that with the Lord one day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years like one day.
[SUP]9 [/SUP] The Lord is not slow about His promise, as some count slowness, but is patient toward you, not wishing for any to perish but for all to come to repentance.

Do you know that feeling, when you are working on a project that you are very passionate about, and you can see day-light at the end of the tunnel, knowing the project is almost finished. DO YOU CALL IT A DAY, JUST BECAUSE THE CLOCK SAYS IT IS 5:00 PM? OR DO YOU PUSH ON TO SEE THE FINISHED PROJECT? I REALLY SUSPECT GOD IS LIKE THAT.

So we cannot measure TIME on the workings of GOD, using Earth hours and Days.

In fact using GOD's TIMETABLE in 2 Pet. 3:8, DAY TWO after the Crucifixion is not even yet finished.

garee · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Just one…. Corruption cannot inherit the incorruptible

. The word thousand in that parable represents an unknown amount of time or what ever is in view in lieu of the last days that began with the renting of the veil . The kingdom of God is not of this corrupted world. Never was, never could be any more that flesh and blood could enter it.

Isa 65:17 For, behold, I create new heavens and a new earth: and the former shall not be remembered, nor come into mind.

The same that will not be remembered or ever come to mind as in universal Alzheimer’s . The other heaven and earth are under the sun it will go up in smoke on the last day, the day of the second resurrection. ..

Ecc 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten.
Ecc 9:6 Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun.

garee · Jun 15, 2017

Issachar92 said:

You can ask God seeing they are his metephors used in parables.Scritpure reveals the spiritual menaing of the parables that hide the spiritual from the lost. No second guessing and creating temple worship that is no longer there.Those that are looking for another are simply defined as antichrists.

The time of first century reformation has come.

serpentdove · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

Unbelievers die. It's not heaven.

serpentdove · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

They also get a choice.

serpentdove · Jun 15, 2017

Muzungu256 said:

The millennium then new heavens and new earth.

samuel23 · Jun 15, 2017

That is something I never really thought of, is the thousand year reign of Christ the kingdom of God? Paul did say that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God. Those that are mentioned in Rev 20 are the believers who refused to take the mark of the Beast, they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. Since everyone had to have the mark of the Beast then who is alive to continue to populate the earth during the thousand years? Just my opinion here, all those who took the mark are doomed, however it may be that children 10 and under were not given the mark and some of them could have survived to repopulate the earth.

The Rapture

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