The Rapture

[Issachar92]

Where does the Bible say this?

Matthew 24:15 When ye therefore shall see the abomination of desolation, spoken of by Daniel the prophet, stand in the holy place, (whoso readeth, let him understand

(Read the verses in between it lists a bunch of signs)

Matthew 24:30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Matthew 24:34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.

(The generation that sees the AoD)

 

[J7]

The disciples asked two separate questions:
1) When will the Temple be destroyed = End of the Age (these things)
2) What is the sign of your coming


3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the age?



34 Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
..........
..........
36 But of that day and hour knoweth no man


The disciples appear in their question not to understand that Jesus return was a completely separate event. But Jesus spells it out to them.

He explains the rundown to the destruction of Jerusalem, but makes it clear that THAT day, (his return), is a totally separate event.

As Daniel had marked out the timeline to the destruction of Jerusalem, it clearly cannot be confused with Jesus' return, as one is on a schedule, but the other is going to come out of the blue

 

[Muzungu256]

here is a good article if its allowed to link here, its about matthew24:

 

[J7]

here is a good article if its allowed to link here, its about matthew24:

Very good, except synteleia aion means 'end of the age', like in the Song:

"this is the end of the world as we know it" (special thanks to R.E.M)

[TABLE="class: bibleTable, width: 100%"]
[TR="class: bVerse"]
[TD]Heb 9:26 For then must he often have suffered since the foundation of the world: but now once in the end of the world hath he appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of himself.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello J7,

The disciples asked two separate questions:
1) When will the Temple be destroyed = End of the Age (these things)
2) What is the sign of your coming

Your interpretation of the "end of the age" is in error. The end of age, is when Jesus returns to the earth physically and visually to bring an end to all human government and to establish his millennial kingdom. After the church as been gathered, then that antichrist will be revealed and all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will begin, which is how God is going to carry out His wrath. Shortly after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, Jesus will return, but not before.

The destruction of the temple has nothing to do with those other signs leading up to Christ's return to the earth. Furthermore, the end of the age is directly linked with Jesus return to end the age. Therefore, if Jesus had already come in 70 AD, we would have already gone through the millennial period and we would currently be living in the eternal state in the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem. In addition to all of this, it is plain to see that none of the characteristics that will exist during the thousand years reign of Christ are currently present. Below are some of those characteristics:

"He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."

When has the above happened?

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat

The calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them.

The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together
The lion will eat straw like the ox.


When has the world ever seen prey and predator animals and their young lying down in peace with each other? When has the lion ever eaten straw like the Ox?

"The infant will play near the cobra’s den, the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain. For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

When in history, has the knowledge and the peace of the Lord filled the earth so that a young child could play near a Cobra's den or stick his hand into a vipers nest?

The answers to all of the these would be a resounding NEVER!

The end of the age is yet to come. But before the end can come, the gathering of the church must first take place, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath. For Jesus already experienced it for every believer. Then the fulfillment of that last seven years upon Israel and Jerusalem and God's wrath must be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, and then Jesus will return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

This is the word of God.

 

[J7]

It makes you wonder, why did the Apostles associate the destruction of the temple with Jesus' return?

Obviously Jesus had already explained his second coming to the disciples.

Where is that explanation in the gospel?

I cannot see it. Therefore I assume that he also told them he would destroy the temple with his second coming. That is why they link the two events, but clearly he had some extra info now to impart.

i.e. there must therefore be a 3rd temple



I feel so pleased with myself, lol, I must be wrong - someone shoot me down

 

[Ahwatukee]

It makes you wonder, why did the Apostles associate the destruction of the temple with Jesus' return?

Hello J7,W

You are correct, there will indeed be a third temple. Where did Jesus associate the destruction of the temple with Jesus' return? Jesus mentioned the destruction because as they were walking away from the temple the disciples said, "Lord, look at these wonderful buildings and their massive stones." Then Jesus replied, "do you see all of these, no one stone will be left on top of another. Everyone will be thrown down." After he told them that, then they asked him the question of what the signs of his coming would be and the end of the age. The destruction of the temple was a separate event that was initiated by the disciples previously mentioned comment about the temple and its buildings. The other signs were yet to take place 2000 years later.

"For then there will be great tribulation, unequaled from the beginning of the world until now—and never to be equaled again.If those days had not been cut short, no one would survive, but for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened."

The destruction of the temple pales in comparison to what the scripture above is revealing. Great tribulation unequaled from the beginning of the world and never to be equaled again? Those who claim that the destruction of the temple fulfilled the scripture above, have a pretty watered down understanding of what that scripture is saying. When it says that time period will be a time of great tribulation unequaled from the beginning of the world, that would include the flood and any other horrific events that have take place since that time.

The destruction of the temple, though terrible, pales, pales, pales, greatly in regards to what that scripture is referring to. The tribulation that the Lord is referring to will be carried out via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which are the wrath of God. As well as all of the great tribulation saints who will be killed because of keeping their testimony for Jesus and the word of God and who will not have worshiped the beast, his image nor received his mark.

 

[PlainWord]

@PlainWord

It is just pure biblical illiteracy with them

Deuteronomy 28
49 The Lord shall bring a nation against thee from far, from the end of the earth, as swift as the eagle flieth; a nation whose tongue thou shalt not understand;
50 A nation of fierce countenance, which shall not regard the person of the old, nor shew favour to the young:
51 And he shall eat the fruit of thy cattle, and the fruit of thy land, until thou be destroyed: which also shall not leave thee either corn, wine, or oil, or the increase of thy kine, or flocks of thy sheep, until he have destroyed thee.
52 And he shall besiege thee in all thy gates, until thy high and fenced walls come down, wherein thou trustedst, throughout all thy land: and he shall besiege thee in all thy gates throughout all thy land, which the Lord thy God hath given thee.
53 And thou shalt eat the fruit of thine own body, the flesh of thy sons and of thy daughters, which the Lord thy God hath given thee, in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee:
54 So that the man that is tender among you, and very delicate, his eye shall be evil toward his brother, and toward the wife of his bosom, and toward the remnant of his children which he shall leave:
55 So that he will not give to any of them of the flesh of his children whom he shall eat: because he hath nothing left him in the siege, and in the straitness, wherewith thine enemies shall distress thee in all thy gates.
56 The tender and delicate woman among you, which would not adventure to set the sole of her foot upon the ground for delicateness and tenderness, her eye shall be evil toward the husband of her bosom, and toward her son, and toward her daughter,
57 And toward her young one that cometh out from between her feet, and toward her children which she shall bear: for she shall eat them for want of all things secretly in the siege and straitness, wherewith thine enemy shall distress thee in thy gates.
58 If thou wilt not observe to do all the words of this law that are written in this book, that thou mayest fear this glorious and fearful name, The Lord Thy God;
59 Then the Lord will make thy plagues wonderful, and the plagues of thy seed, even great plagues, and of long continuance, and sore sicknesses, and of long continuance.
60 Moreover he will bring upon thee all the diseases of Egypt, which thou wast afraid of; and they shall cleave unto thee.
61 Also every sickness, and every plague, which is not written in the book of this law, them will the Lord bring upon thee, until thou be destroyed.
62 And ye shall be left few in number, whereas ye were as the stars of heaven for multitude; because thou wouldest not obey the voice of the Lord thy God.
63 And it shall come to pass, that as the Lord rejoiced over you to do you good, and to multiply you; so the Lord will rejoice over you to destroy you, and to bring you to nought; and ye shall be plucked from off the land whither thou goest to possess it.
64 And the Lord shall scatter thee among all people, from the one end of the earth even unto the other; and there thou shalt serve other gods, which neither thou nor thy fathers have known, even wood and stone.
65 And among these nations shalt thou find no ease, neither shall the sole of thy foot have rest: but the Lord shall give thee there a trembling heart, and failing of eyes, and sorrow of mind:
66 And thy life shall hang in doubt before thee; and thou shalt fear day and night, and shalt have none assurance of thy life:

CORRECT! You have correctly identified the first passage which foretold the Great Tribulation and end of the Jewish nation and Mosaic age for this disobedience. My compliments sir!!

 

[Muzungu256]

So J7 do you think the antichrist is still coming????????????? maybe the temple of God is not the temple in jerusalem but the church like it says in ephesians 2:21 and other places.............

 

[VCO]

I am not trying to erode your faith.

I don't have to prove to you that I am born again.

I am trying to confirm your prophecy interpretations, or not confirm them.

That is, will they stand the test of scripture?

Can your understanding, stand up to the hard questions that must be asked?

Can you answer the questions?

If you can, then maybe you are right and I am wrong.

I don't judge a person's salvation, by prophecy interpretation alone, there are many more essential teachings that are more important.

Brother Ahwatukee and I disagree many times on prophecy, but on the important salvation issues, I think that we agree on them.

Think, about the questions that I ask, that is why I ask them, so that you think about the scriptures.

I am nobody, if you cannot answer questions from a nobody, how will you answer anyone?







Friend,

The answer to the questions, is not, I have faith and you don't.

I was expecting something more.

Matthew 7:15-20 (HCSB)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] “Beware of false prophets who come to you in sheep’s clothing but inwardly are ravaging wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You’ll recognize them by their fruit. Are grapes gathered from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] In the same way, every good tree produces good fruit, but a bad tree produces bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree can’t produce bad fruit; neither can a bad tree produce good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that doesn’t produce good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] So you’ll recognize them by their fruit.

Matthew 24:24-25 (HCSB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] False messiahs and false prophets will arise and perform great signs and wonders to lead astray, if possible, even the elect.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Take note: I have told you in advance.

2 Timothy 3:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] always learning and never able to come to a knowledge of the truth.


1 Timothy 1:3-6 (HCSB)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] As I urged you when I went to Macedonia, remain in Ephesus so that you may instruct certain people not to teach different doctrine
[SUP]4 [/SUP] or to pay attention to myths and endless genealogies. These promote empty speculations rather than God’s plan, which operates by faith.
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Now the goal of our instruction is love ⌊that comes⌋ from a pure heart, a good conscience, and a sincere faith.
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Some have deviated from these and turned aside to fruitless discussion.

 

[PlainWord]

AHW,

Concerning your post #1129, I didn't re-post it here due to size concerns. Let me address some of the issues you raise. We can go into more detail if you like.

1. You claim that the Man of Sin or "Antichrist" is a future character who signs a 7-year peace pact with Israel only to break it then wreak havoc on the them.

My response: Let's review what Titus did to Israel again, then perhaps you can tell me how the "future AC" will do even more harm to Israel. Titus surrounded the city causing enormous starvation and death for 5 months. Those who tried to escape were disemboweled to look for gold that might have been swallowed. A total of 1.1 million out of 1.2 million inside the city were killed. Titus destroyed the 2nd temple and completely burned down the city then dismantled it, every last stone. Titus ended the Law and the Mosaic Age, (hence "Lawless One" since he effectively ended their law and any means they thought they had for atonement).

Titus raided the temple treasury and sacred utensils. He killed women and children and the elderly indiscriminately. A sacrifice was made to Titus in the Temple complex where his solders worshiped him and declared that he was above God. The remaining 97K Jews Titus took to Rome in chains. Many were killed along the way. Others where thrown to wild beasts in the Colosseum. Titus caused Israel to cease from being a nation for 1,947 years and scattered them to all the nations. I think this was pretty bad.

So again, what does your Antichrist do to Israel that will be worse than what I just described?

2. You cite that the Antichrist "(Had) authority over every tribe and people and tongue and nation given to him."

My response: As Caesar of Rome in 70 AD, was there ever a world leader which had more control over the world in human history? Look at Dan 3:

“To you it is commanded, O peoples, nations, and languages, 5 that at the time you hear the sound of the horn, flute, harp, lyre, and psaltery, in symphony with all kinds of music, you shall fall down and worship the gold image that King Nebuchadnezzar has set up.

Do you see the same (or similar concept in the above underlined passage. Did Neb have more control over the peoples of the world or did Caesar? You need to think like a first century Jew, not a 21st century American. Their view of the world is far different than yours.

3. When did Jesus every destroy Titus by the brightness of his coming?

My response: You need to remember that when Christ came in 70 AD, He came in His glory in His spiritual-God form, not in his human form. He came in "extreme brightness" which is what the text says. Therefore the destruction was spiritual, not physical. Think of it as when God told Adam that in the day he ate of the fruit, he would surely die. Did Adam physically die on that day? No, but Adam fell from Grace and lost His spiritual body which was replaced with a mortal body.

The text says, "will consume...destroy" future tense. As the head of Rome, the fourth beast of Daniel's statue, Christ struck the statue on that day and set in motion the spiritual victory. Destroying Titus was just another way of stating Daniel's statue.

 

[VCO]

I am not trying to erode your faith.

I don't have to prove to you that I am born again.

I am trying to confirm your prophecy interpretations, or not confirm them. {I DO NOT BELIEVE YOU.}

That is, will they stand the test of scripture?

Can your understanding, stand up to the hard questions that must be asked?

. . .

YES, my interpretations stand up to the TEST of SCRIPTURES.

YOUR TWISTED INTERPRETATIONS DO NOT.

What you call Hard Questions are devious questions based on the presupposition that your TWISTED INTERPRETATIONS are correct. Making this discussion with you a TOTAL waste of my time. You are now one step from being added to my IGNORE LIST.

 

[valiant]

Your interpretation of the "end of the age" is in error. The end of age, is when Jesus returns to the earth physically and visually to bring an end to all human government

right thus far. Then you go wrong.

and to establish his millennial kingdom.

NOWHERE does it say He will have a millennial kingdom. He never mentions it in His teaching unless one forces it on parables.

Rev 20 says that Jesus reigns with His people, But it does not say He is reigning on the earth. Acts 2.30-36 says the same of His heavenly reign.

After the church as been gathered, then that antichrist will be revealed and all of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments will begin,

talk about making the Bible say what you want, Where does it say when the church has been gathered? John said the antichrist had already been revealed, indeed that there were many antichrists.

The seals follow the pattern of what Christ taught in Matthew 24.6-14. He opened the seals to make It happen in 1st and 2nd century AD. With the trumpet and bowls they are concurrent, the latter two an intensification in parts of the world. They then continue through history. Note how each ends at the second coming.

which is how God is going to carry out His wrath. Shortly after the 7th bowl judgment has been poured out, Jesus will return, but not before.

God's wrath is revealed from Heaven when? Even as Paul was writing to the Romans (1.18). Jesus will return
at the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet, and the sieventh bowl, which all occur at the same time. They are concurrent.

The destruction of the temple has nothing to do with those other signs leading up to Christ's return to the earth.

Actually Jesus said they were closely connected. They were the 'these things' which were to happen within a generation.

Furthermore, the end of the age is directly linked with Jesus return to end the age.

Yes when the world ceases to be (2 Peter 3)

Therefore, if Jesus had already come in 70 AD, we would have already gone through the millennial period and we would currently be living in the eternal state in the new heaven, new earth and new Jerusalem.

well Jesus came in a sense as Lord of all to destroy the Temple, but it was not a visible coming,

In addition to all of this, it is plain to see that none of the characteristics that will exist during the thousand years reign of Christ are currently present

.

You know history so well?

Below are some of those characteristics:
"He will judge between the nations and will settle disputes for many peoples. They will beat their swords into plowshares and their spears into pruning hooks. Nation will not take up sword against nation, nor will they train for war anymore."

This has happened many times through history.

When has the above happened?

When nations stopped fighting each other.

"The wolf will live with the lamb, the leopard will lie down with the goat

This will happen in the new earth.

T

he calf and the lion and the yearling together; and a little child will lead them. The cow will feed with the bear, their young will lie down together.

The lion will eat straw like the ox.

This will happen in the new earth.

When has the world ever seen prey and predator animals and their young lying down in peace with each other? When has the lion ever eaten straw like the Ox? "The infant will play near the cobra’s den, the young child will put its hand into the viper’s nest. They will neither harm nor destroy on all my holy mountain. For the earth will be filled with the knowledge of the Lord as the waters cover the sea."

the new earth

When in history, has the knowledge and the peace of the Lord filled the earth so that a young child could play near a Cobra's den or stick his hand into a vipers nest?

The new earth

The answers to all of the these would be a resounding NEVER!

No for they are a prophecy of the new earth

The end of the age is yet to come. But before the end can come, the gathering of the church must first take place, because we are not appointed to suffer God's wrath.

God's wrath was revealed from Heaven in Romans 1.18.

For Jesus already experienced it for every believer.

true

Then the fulfillment of that last seven years upon Israel and Jerusalem and God's wrath must be poured out upon a Christ rejecting world, and then Jesus will return to end the age and establish His millennial kingdom.

All based on a fantasy interpretation of Daniel 9.

This is the word of God.

THIS IS REALLY THE WORD OF AHWATUKEE

 

[popeye]

right thus far. Then you go wrong.



NOWHERE does it say He will have a millennial kingdom. He never mentions it in His teaching unless one forces it on parables.

Rev 20 says that Jesus reigns with His people, But it does not say He is reigning on the earth. Acts 2.30-36 says the same of His heavenly reign.



talk about making the Bible say what you want, Where does it say when the church has been gathered? John said the antichrist had already been revealed, indeed that there were many antichrists.

The seals follow the pattern of what Christ taught in Matthew 24.6-14. He opened the seals to make It happen in 1st and 2nd century AD. With the trumpet and bowls they are concurrent, the latter two an intensification in parts of the world. They then continue through history. Note how each ends at the second coming.



God's wrath is revealed from Heaven when? Even as Paul was writing to the Romans (1.18). Jesus will return
at the sixth seal, the seventh trumpet, and the sieventh bowl, which all occur at the same time. They are concurrent.




Actually Jesus said they were closely connected. They were the 'these things' which were to happen within a generation.




Yes when the world ceases to be (2 Peter 3)



well Jesus came in a sense as Lord of all to destroy the Temple, but it was not a visible coming,

.

You know history so well?




This has happened many times through history.



When nations stopped fighting each other.



This will happen in the new earth.

T

This will happen in the new earth.



the new earth



The new earth


No for they are a prophecy of the new earth




God's wrath was revealed from Heaven in Romans 1.18.



true



All based on a fantasy interpretation of Daniel 9.



THIS IS REALLY THE WORD OF AHWATUKEE

Ok,so you need it to be a non physical reigning after the non entrance of Jesus and his army of saints come non physically to earth to defeat the AC and his army.

I wonder why?

That is way too much to wink at. Like I said,historicist can not possibly work .

Way too many grand canyon leaps.

 

[valiant]

Ok,so you need it to be a non physical reigning after the non entrance of Jesus and his army of saints come non physically to earth to defeat the AC and his army.

He came to the clouds. He didn't come to earth. Do you really think that the Jesus described in Rev 19 would even need to? The birds ate the flesh of men who had killed each other. They did not fight Him. He was the mighty victor.

I wonder why? That is way too much to wink at. Like I said,historicist can not possibly work .

Way too many grand canyon leaps.

Revelation is above history. It is the Lord ruling history. He describes the grand sweep of history. It works magnificently.

It is you crude literalists who invent from what was intended to cover all centuries.

 

[valiant]

YES, my interpretations stand up to the TEST of SCRIPTURES.

YOUR TWISTED INTERPRETATIONS DO NOT.

Others see it differently. Your interpretation is mainly from 19 th century.

What you call Hard Questions are devious questions based on the presupposition that your TWISTED INTERPRETATIONS are correct. Making this discussion with you a TOTAL waste of my time. You are now one step from being added to my IGNORE LIST.

LOL with your attitude he should worry. Learn to respect your opponents,

 

[VCO]

Others see it differently. Your interpretation is mainly from 19 th century.



LOL with your attitude he should worry. Learn to respect your opponents,

I have told you before, I am not here seeking opponents. I am here to encourage, and build up like minded born again Believers.

I grew up in the BIBLE BELT, Nebraska to be exact; and I NEVER EVEN HEARD THE TERM PRETERIST until a few months ago. Therefore, you know where I think your theological slant on the Scriptures comes from:


[video=youtube;NzlG28B-R8Y]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzlG28B-R8Y[/video]

 

[Muzungu256]

the only way i will ever convert to a premillennial thought is if someone can explain to me how people still die in the millennial kingdom since Jesus says flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom and death is swallowed up in victory............ show me that and im on board lets go 1000 year earthly kingdom two resurrections letsgooooooooooo

 

[Ahwatukee]

My response: Let's review what Titus did to Israel again, then perhaps you can tell me how the "future AC" will do even more harm to Israel.

Simple, you have not seen what is yet to take place regarding Israel and the time of God's vengeance.

Once the abomination has been set up many will die, but those whom God has chosen will flee from Jerusalem/Judea out into the desert to that place God has prepared for them and they will be cared for 1260 days or that last 3 1/2 years out of the dragons reach until Christ returns (Rev.12:6,14)

You also have not understood the severity and magnitude of God's coming wrath via the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments.

My response: You need to remember that when Christ came in 70 AD, He came in His glory in His spiritual-God form, not in his human form.

Christ did not return in 70 AD and that is one of your errors. Regardless of what you say above, scripture does not support it. For regarding Jesus return to the earth to end the age, scripture says the following:

"Then will appear the sign of the Son of Man in heaven. And then all the peoples of the earth will mourn when they see the Son of Man arriving on the clouds of heaven, with power and great glory."

"Look, he is coming with the clouds,”and “every eye will see him, even those who pierced him”; and all the peoples on earth “will mourn because of him."

You see how both Matthew and Revelation support each other? This is scripture interpreting scripture. In both scriptures it is stated that all the peoples of the earth will visually see him arriving in the clouds. You on the other hand ignore what the scripture is literally saying and apply a spiritual meaning to it and thereby distort its true meaning. I'll stick with what the scripture says, for there is nothing in the context to lead the reader to look for anything other than a literal fulfillment of Christ's literal, visual, return to the earth. According to Zech.14:4, when the Lord returns to the earth, the Lord's feet will literally touch down on the mount of Olives splitting it in two from east to west and forming a valley. That is a physical, literal, event, which takes place at the end of the age.

I feel sad for you and all of those who have been deceived by these false teachings. Scripture states that the time will come when people will not put up sound doctrine, but to suit their own desires the will gather around them a great number of teachers to tickle their ears. They will abandon the truth and turn aside to myths. And that is exactly what you are doing. You read scripture, but you don't believe what it says at face value. Instead, because of the false teachings you believe what you have been taught and because you listen to them or what their books have to say, or what you have read on the internet or seen on YouTube and you abandon the truth. Example, scripture says regarding Christ's return to the earth to end the age that, "every eye will see Him." Yet, you ignore the literal meaning of the inhabitants visually seeing the Lord and opt for a spiritual interpretation and because of others false teachings. You do the same thing with the thousand years. You ignore the literal meaning and go with the false teaching that the thousand years is figurative referring to an unknown amount of time, even though it says "a thousand years" six times.

If the Lord were to ask you why you didn't believe what His word said, you certainly wouldn't be able to say, "Lord, your word never said that 'every eye would see you.' " Or, "Lord, you word never said that your reign on this earth would be for a thousand years."

It makes me wonder how God could ever get His point across to those who interpret as you do, that He is speaking of these events in the literal sense, when you blatantly change them to a spiritual meaning.

Another proof that the Lord's return to end the age will be physical and visual is that, Jesus said, "therefore if anyone says to you, 'here he is out in the desert, don't go out and look." Or if they say to you, He's in a secret room, don't believe it." These examples are referring to visual proof. Then what does the Lord say regarding how He will return to the earth? He says, "Just as the lightning shines in the east and is seen in the west, so also shall the coming of the Son of man be. In other words, it will be a sudden event that, like lightning, no one will miss it.

What is going to happen, is that you and the others who believe as you do, are going to see the events that you say have already taken place, begin to take place literally right before your eyes. You will see the removal of the church. You will see that ruler establish that seven year covenant with Israel and the building of her temple. You will see the results of the seals, trumpets and bowls, that is, if you make it that far. I say that because as a result of the seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, the majority of the population of the earth will be decimated and the earth will be in a chaotic mess.

All I can do is continue to pray for you that God would open your eyes. Hopefully, you won't have to experience the events that you are claiming have already happened.

 

[VCO]

Bogus claims that the Pre-Tribulation Rapture Doctrine originated with John Darby and popularized in the 1830s; absolutely falls apart when you do the research for yourself.

Some pre-tribulation proponents, such as Grant Jeffrey,[SUP][42][/SUP] maintain that the earliest known extra-Biblical reference to the pre-tribulation rapture is from a 7th-century tract known as the Apocalypse of Pseudo-Ephraem the Syrian. Different authors have proposed several different versions of the Ephraem text as authentic and there are differing opinions as to whether it supports belief in a pre-tribulation rapture.[SUP][43][/SUP][SUP][44][/SUP] One version of the text reads, "For all the saints and Elect of God are gathered, prior to the tribulation that is to come, and are taken to the Lord lest they see the confusion that is to overwhelm the world because of our sins."

. . .

In 1590, Francisco Ribera, a Catholic Jesuit, taught "futurism," the idea that most of Revelation was about the future rather than about the Catholic Church. He also taught that the rapture would happen 45 days before the end of a 3.5-year tribulation.


The concept of the rapture, in connection with premillennialism, was expressed by the 17th-century American Puritans Increase and Cotton Mather. They held to the idea that believers would be caught up in the air, followed by judgments on earth, and then the millennium.[SUP][24][/SUP][SUP][25][/SUP] Other 17th-century expressions of the rapture are found in the works of: Robert Maton, Nathaniel Homes, John Browne, Thomas Vincent, Henry Danvers, and William Sherwin.[SUP][26][/SUP] The term rapture was used by Philip Doddridge[SUP][27][/SUP] and John Gill[SUP][28][/SUP] in their New Testament commentaries, with the idea that believers would be caught up prior to judgment on earth and Jesus' second coming.


There exists at least one 18th-century and two 19th-century pre-tribulation references: in an essay published in 1788 in Philadelphia by the Baptist Morgan Edwards which articulated the concept of a pre-tribulation rapture,[SUP][29][/SUP] in the writings of Catholic priest Manuel Lacunza in 1812,[SUP][30][/SUP] and by John Nelson Darby in 1827.[SUP][31][/SUP] Manuel Lacunza (1731–1801), a Jesuit priest (under the pseudonym Juan Josafat Ben Ezra), wrote an apocalyptic work entitled La venida del Mesías en gloria y majestad (The Coming of the Messiah in Glory and Majesty). The book appeared first in 1811, 10 years after his death. In 1827, it was translated into English by the Scottish minister Edward Irving.


Dr. Samuel Prideaux Tregelles (1813-1875), a prominent English theologian and biblical scholar, wrote a pamphlet in 1866 tracing the concept of the rapture through the works of John Darby back to Edward Irving.[SUP][32]
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An 1828 edition of Matthew Henry's An Exposition of the Old and New Testament uses the word "rapture" in explicating 1 Thes. 4:17.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rapture

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