The Rapture
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Correct and they did not go through the GT of Israel. When they saw the Abomination of Desolation surround the city, they fled to Pella. The Lamb actually shepherded them there. The Christian Church of Jerusalem was massive. It was located on Mt. Zion, just south of the then Jewish Temple. Thus Rev 7 and 14 are accurate.
2 Corinthians 11:2 states, “I promised you to one husband, to Christ, so that I might present you as a pure virgin to him.” 2 Corinthians was addressed to the Christian church at Corinth. In both this verse and v. 4, the church is said to be a virgin. The wedding ceremony between Christ and His virgin, the church, is later described in Rev 21:2. The fact that these 144,000 have not defiled themselves with woman probably does not mean that they were all literal virgins. Their virginity is likely figurative, it is meant to contrast these people with the rest of Babylon which is later shown committing adultery with the beast in Rev 18:1-3. Washed clean by the blood of Christ, the church is forgiven and found to be blameless in v. 5.
In v. 4 the 144,000 are called “first fruits.” This title again points to the first century church. In Romans 16:5 and 1 Corinthians 15:20-23, Paul uses this term to describe the first converts of Asia and Achaia.
In Rev 14: 6 an angel proclaims the Gospel to “every nation, tribe, language and people.” The expression “every nation, tribe, language and people” may, of course, be interpreted on a global scale, though it is not necessary to do so. In the Bible all or every does not always mean all or every (Matthew 2:1-3; 4:8; and 10:22). Therefore, when the Bible refers to “every nation” it does not always mean every nation in the world without exception. In Colossians 1:23, Paul writes, “This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven[.]” (Colossians 1:23.) Likewise according to Luke 2:1 “all the world” was enrolled in the census ordered by Augustus. Similarly, in 2 Maccabees 8:9 the Seleucid army is said to have been comprised of Gentiles from “all the nations[.]” As is clear in these vs., “every nation” is an expression denoting all or the bulk of the known or inhabited earth. In other words, it likely points to those nations of the world in which Jews settled as a result of the diaspora.
Jews from all over the world converged on Jerusalem during the three major Jewish holidays. Thus this angel could have proclaimed the Gospel in Jerusalem and have effectively preached to “every nation, tribe, language and people.” Interestingly, a disembodied voice was heard during these holidays. Was this the voice of the angel in v. 6?
Jews from all over the world converged on Jerusalem during the three major Jewish holidays. Thus this angel could have proclaimed the Gospel in Jerusalem and have effectively preached to “every nation, tribe, language and people.” Interestingly, a disembodied voice was heard during these holidays. Was this the voice of the angel in v. 6?
Rev 19:5-8, is only a prophecy of the wedding, not the actual wedding.
This shows that your time line is not correct.
You stated that the wedding takes place during the 7 yr trib., but Rev 19 says, it is come.
If the wedding takes place during the 7 yrs, how is it that it comes, at the arrival of Jesus, at the very end of the 7 yrs?
It already took place?
God is always right.
It doesn't mean that you and I are always right.
What covenant are they under?
How are they saved?
They can't be saved by faith, because Jesus is seen, and that which is seen, is not of faith.
When they sin, how will they be saved? What covenant will be in force, if the day of salvation is ended?
Yes.
Jesus said that the kingdom is not of this world,
But now you say that it is, or will be of this world.
Jesus has all power right now, Sits on the throne right now, Reigns right now.
Rules the kingdom on planet earth right now.
Verse 1 says that this is describing the "Day of the Lord".
There are 2 "days" that this could be,
1. The day of the Lord against Jerusalem.
2. The final day of the Lord.
I'm going with the day of the Lord against Jerusalem.
-----
Verse 2
The Roman armies were from all nations.
The events described took place in 70 ad.
See how some are taken into slavery, captivity, How can they be taken into captivity, to serve as slaves, when Jesus comes to begin the mill kingdom period?
Why would the people have to flee from their enemies if Jesus arrived?
Why wouldn't they be running to the safety of Jesus' presence, instead of away from Jerusalem?
This is showing the "way of salvation", to the people of Jesus' time.
Christians who believed the prophecies of Jesus fled Jerusalem when it was attacked.
In the dark days, there will still be the gospel light, Acts 2:16-21.
The living waters, are the Holy Spirit through the kingdom, that purify the gentile nations (the seas of the gentile nations).
Jesus is King over the earth, the kingdom.
Not literal.
A picture of the kingdom/church.
Is this a return to the Law of Moses? that has passed away?
Again not literal.
This shows that your time line is not correct.
You stated that the wedding takes place during the 7 yr trib., but Rev 19 says, it is come.
If the wedding takes place during the 7 yrs, how is it that it comes, at the arrival of Jesus, at the very end of the 7 yrs?
It already took place?
God is always right.
It doesn't mean that you and I are always right.
What covenant are they under?
How are they saved?
They can't be saved by faith, because Jesus is seen, and that which is seen, is not of faith.
When they sin, how will they be saved? What covenant will be in force, if the day of salvation is ended?
Yes.
Jesus said that the kingdom is not of this world,
But now you say that it is, or will be of this world.
Jesus has all power right now, Sits on the throne right now, Reigns right now.
Rules the kingdom on planet earth right now.
Verse 1 says that this is describing the "Day of the Lord".
There are 2 "days" that this could be,
1. The day of the Lord against Jerusalem.
2. The final day of the Lord.
I'm going with the day of the Lord against Jerusalem.
-----
Verse 2
The Roman armies were from all nations.
The events described took place in 70 ad.
See how some are taken into slavery, captivity, How can they be taken into captivity, to serve as slaves, when Jesus comes to begin the mill kingdom period?
Why would the people have to flee from their enemies if Jesus arrived?
Why wouldn't they be running to the safety of Jesus' presence, instead of away from Jerusalem?
This is showing the "way of salvation", to the people of Jesus' time.
Christians who believed the prophecies of Jesus fled Jerusalem when it was attacked.
In the dark days, there will still be the gospel light, Acts 2:16-21.
The living waters, are the Holy Spirit through the kingdom, that purify the gentile nations (the seas of the gentile nations).
Jesus is King over the earth, the kingdom.
Not literal.
A picture of the kingdom/church.
Is this a return to the Law of Moses? that has passed away?
Again not literal.
This is a discussion forum, yes?
I'm not sure how heated it is,
but are you willing to hear opposing viewpoints?
But nobody else? Only those who agree with you?
We will not be returning to this planet.
The 1st resurrection referred to in Rev 20, is the resurrection of Jesus in 33 ad.
The mill kingdom is from Pentecost until Jesus comes for the kingdom. and then this planet ends (fire from heaven).
The mill kingdom is the present time.
We shall see, keep in touch.
Day of the Lord, v 1, against Jerusalem, 70 ad.
Find anybody who says exactly what I am saying.
Jesus is coming to take possession of the kingdom, exactly 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran and it's allies Magog.
Not my way, the way of Jesus.
They probably said that about John the Baptist also, yes?
Popularity, is not confirmation of truth.
I will show, that pre trib cannot be true.
Who is the iron legs 500 yrs ago? Nobody? The iron does not stop and then begin again. Dan. 2.
If the legs ended when the Roman Empire fell, then we must have been in the period of the 10 toes since then.
(The number 10 is symbolic of complete division, and is not literal)
Who is the iron, right now? Nobody?
The iron toes/horns, get smaller, remain divided, are infused with weakening clay, and come to an end.
Hardly a planet wide empire.
The way you describe them, they seem like some good people.
Why don't you invite them to come to CC?
Let them defend their pre trib teachings themselves?
Get them to come and discuss what they understand?
I'm not sure how heated it is,
but are you willing to hear opposing viewpoints?
But nobody else? Only those who agree with you?
We will not be returning to this planet.
The 1st resurrection referred to in Rev 20, is the resurrection of Jesus in 33 ad.
The mill kingdom is from Pentecost until Jesus comes for the kingdom. and then this planet ends (fire from heaven).
The mill kingdom is the present time.
We shall see, keep in touch.
Day of the Lord, v 1, against Jerusalem, 70 ad.
Find anybody who says exactly what I am saying.
Jesus is coming to take possession of the kingdom, exactly 3 1/2 days after Jerusalem falls to Iran and it's allies Magog.
Not my way, the way of Jesus.
They probably said that about John the Baptist also, yes?
Popularity, is not confirmation of truth.
I will show, that pre trib cannot be true.
Who is the iron legs 500 yrs ago? Nobody? The iron does not stop and then begin again. Dan. 2.
If the legs ended when the Roman Empire fell, then we must have been in the period of the 10 toes since then.
(The number 10 is symbolic of complete division, and is not literal)
Who is the iron, right now? Nobody?
The iron toes/horns, get smaller, remain divided, are infused with weakening clay, and come to an end.
Hardly a planet wide empire.
The way you describe them, they seem like some good people.
Why don't you invite them to come to CC?
Let them defend their pre trib teachings themselves?
Get them to come and discuss what they understand?
The statue of Dan. 2 shows that the trib of the Roman 4th beast, lasts until Israel is restored to Jerusalem, 1967.
The 7 times are not literal years, but are the same time period as the statue.
First 3 1/2 times, Babylon until 70 ad, Dan. 12:7.
Second 3 1/2 times, 70 ad until 1967, the statue ends.
The 7 times are not literal years, but are the same time period as the statue.
First 3 1/2 times, Babylon until 70 ad, Dan. 12:7.
Second 3 1/2 times, 70 ad until 1967, the statue ends.
Your theology is 180 degrees the opposite of what the Holy Spirit has shown me is TRUTH in the WORD of GOD. NOT ONE THING, can I agree with you on. You are on your own, because I am convinced you are following a different spirit than the One who is my Teacher. I will have to ignore your posts from now on.
YOUR THEOLOLY is almost as twisted a plainword and abcdef. I give up trying to convince you of anything, and no, you do not win, because your twisted theology is not worth my trouble to continue.
Revelation 3:10 (CSBBible)
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Because you have kept my command to endure, I will also keep you from the hour of testing that is going to come on the whole world to test those who live on the earth.
Muzungu256..we can teach you what the Bible says but it up to you to find out for yourself..... Acts 17:11////There was no No NO NOOOOOOOOOOo "Abomination of Desolate" in 70 AD..... What is it you do not understand.??
What new Covenant????????? there was no NEW Covenant made to the Church ---only Israel.....Does that tell you something.
OT
Jeremiah 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
NT
He went on to say Romans 11:27 - For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Wow... Is what you get for listening to others and not looking it up for yourself. Just like all those poor people on Joel Olsteen hour.
What new Covenant????????? there was no NEW Covenant made to the Church ---only Israel.....Does that tell you something.
OT
Jeremiah 31:31 - Behold, the days come, saith the LORD, that I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel, and with the house of Judah:
NT
He went on to say Romans 11:27 - For this [is] my covenant unto them, when I shall take away their sins.
Romans 6:14 - For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.
Wow... Is what you get for listening to others and not looking it up for yourself. Just like all those poor people on Joel Olsteen hour.
Look at Daniel 9:26,27......Verse 26 is talking about the 62 weeks where Jesus is Crucified. "26..And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined."
Verse 27 tells us that until the AntiChirst will confirm a covenant with many (Isreal)... The only problem is that the Antichrist cannot be revealed until the restrainer is Gone. Jesus tells us that the Church will NOT go through the Wrath of GOD. Thus the restrainer (Holy Spirit) within all true believers has to leave the earth before the Antichrist can be revealed.
There is the HOLD or PAUSE? 7 weeks ( for the 2nd rebuilding of the temple and Jerusalem) 62 weeks until the Messiah (Jesus) is crucified. HOLD---PAUSE AntiChrist is revealed.
Originally Posted by PlainWord
Good morning AHW,
So you are saying we are to ignore the People of the Prince which came in 70 AD who destroyed the sanctuary and city and instead skip ahead 2,000 years and manufacture a new sanctuary and new prince to come destroy it? What would that do to our 490 years? Wouldn't it add like 2,000 years to it?
So you are saying we are to ignore the People of the Prince which came in 70 AD who destroyed the sanctuary and city and instead skip ahead 2,000 years and manufacture a new sanctuary and new prince to come destroy it? What would that do to our 490 years? Wouldn't it add like 2,000 years to it?
He is not twisting verses. what he is doing is accepting the straightforward rendering of Daniel.
And you seem very keen to bring God's wrath down on people???? Be careful its not on you.
Maybe this has already been discussed in here, but wanted to share it anyway...
Daniel 9:26: "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people (Romans) of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...."
Yes, Messiah was cut off (fulfilled)
The Romans then destroyed the temple (fulfilled)
The future prince who is to come (not yet fulfilled) - it says the people who destroyed the temple (Romans) are of the prince to come, so we know the future prince is someone from the revived Roman empire (the 10 toes of the statue)
Continuing......
Daniel 9:27: "Then he (roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week (7 yrs);
But in the middle of the week (3.5 yrs)
he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering (he will break the contract)(sounds like a peace treaty)
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Some try to claim that the prince in verse 27 is actually Jesus, which they use to support their 70AD preterist view. It's unfortunate they confuse the workings of Antichrist with Jesus. If you look closely you'll notice the "He" versus "he" - a capital letter is always used when God is mentioned, and a lower case for everyone else. Just further confirmation that the roman prince in verse 27 is Antichrist and not Jesus. Verse 27 has not been fulfilled yet, which points to the Great tribulation being in the future.
Not to mention, the scriptures say that if the days are not shortened that no flesh would survive. Nothing in the past has come close to that. The times we live in now make this more of a reality.
Daniel 9:26: "And after the sixty-two weeks
Messiah (Jesus) shall be cut off, but not for Himself;
And the people (Romans) of the prince who is to come
Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary...."
Yes, Messiah was cut off (fulfilled)
The Romans then destroyed the temple (fulfilled)
The future prince who is to come (not yet fulfilled) - it says the people who destroyed the temple (Romans) are of the prince to come, so we know the future prince is someone from the revived Roman empire (the 10 toes of the statue)
Continuing......
Daniel 9:27: "Then he (roman prince) shall confirm a covenant with many for one week (7 yrs);
But in the middle of the week (3.5 yrs)
he shall bring an end to sacrifice and offering (he will break the contract)(sounds like a peace treaty)
And on the wing of abominations shall be one who makes desolate,
Even until the consummation, which is determined,
Is poured out on the desolate.”
Some try to claim that the prince in verse 27 is actually Jesus, which they use to support their 70AD preterist view. It's unfortunate they confuse the workings of Antichrist with Jesus. If you look closely you'll notice the "He" versus "he" - a capital letter is always used when God is mentioned, and a lower case for everyone else. Just further confirmation that the roman prince in verse 27 is Antichrist and not Jesus. Verse 27 has not been fulfilled yet, which points to the Great tribulation being in the future.
Not to mention, the scriptures say that if the days are not shortened that no flesh would survive. Nothing in the past has come close to that. The times we live in now make this more of a reality.
Hi Katy,
Not to mention that, if Jesus was the "He" in Dan.9:27, as those who promote the 70 AD theory claim, then Jesus as the "He" would also have to be the "He" who sets up the abomination, which is defined as "a reeking stench that goes up before God. an abominable thing." Therefore, by being the One who sets up the abomination, he would be blaspheming God the Father and himself, which is another reason why Jesus could not be the "He" of the verse.
Not to mention that, if Jesus was the "He" in Dan.9:27, as those who promote the 70 AD theory claim, then Jesus as the "He" would also have to be the "He" who sets up the abomination, which is defined as "a reeking stench that goes up before God. an abominable thing." Therefore, by being the One who sets up the abomination, he would be blaspheming God the Father and himself, which is another reason why Jesus could not be the "He" of the verse.