The Rapture

Zen · Jun 10, 2017

Some time after the earthquake and sky falling.

Before that, we have to endure all the garbage of Babylon.

But God can visit any of His children with an individual 'rapture' by allowing them to be killed.

Mark 13:
[SUP]24 [/SUP]But in those days, after that tribulation, the sun shall be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light,

[SUP]25 [/SUP]And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.

[SUP]26 [/SUP]And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.

[SUP]27 [/SUP]And then shall he send his angels, and shall gather together his elect from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

garee · Jun 10, 2017

PlainWord said:

Are you a physicist? I'm a former nuclear engineer so I've studied a little science in my day. Do you understand what time is and that it had a beginning? Since it had a beginning, it was created because the only thing/entity that did not have a beginning was God. Since God created the universe, God created time. Without the universe, there would be no time.

Einstein's General Theory of Relativity demonstrates that time is linked, or related, to matter and space, and thus the dimensions of time, space, and matter constitute what we call the time-space continuum (Google it). They must come into being at precisely the same instant. Time itself cannot exist in the absence of matter and space. From this, we can infer that the uncaused first cause (God, the Creator) must exist outside of the four dimensions of space and time, and possess eternal, personal, and intelligent qualities in order to possess the capabilities of intentionally space, matter -- and indeed even time itself -- into being.

Moreover, the very physical nature of time and space also suggest a Creator, for infinity and eternity must necessarily exist from a logical perspective. The existence of time implies eternity (as time has a beginning and an end), and the existence of space implies infinity. The very concepts of infinity and eternity infer a Creator because they find their very state of being in God, who transcends both and simply is.

Taken together, space, consisting of three dimensions (up-down, left-right, and forward-backward) and time are all part of what's called the space-time continuum. It's important to understand Einstein's work on the space-time continuum and how it relates to traveling through space.

Einstein realized that space and time are relative -- an object in motion actually experiences time at a slower rate than one at rest. Although this may seem absurd to us, we travel incredibly slow when compared to the speed of light, so we don't notice the hands on our watches ticking slower when we're running or traveling on an airplane. Scientists have actually proved this phenomenon by sending atomic clocks up with high-speed rocket ships. They returned to Earth slightly behind the clocks on the ground.

The closer an object gets to the speed of light, that object actually experiences time at a significantly slower rate. If we could travel safely close to the speed of light to the center of our galaxy from Earth, it would take 25,000 years of Earth time for those on Earth. But for us traveling, however, the trip would probably only take 10 years.

Now who created "light?"
Gen 1: And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.

I rest my case.

God is light in Him there is no darkness .

Interestedly the planet the Sun as to its light it was not turned on until the fourth day . The light previous was the presence of God (God is light) it will govern the new creation. Time had come to an end on the last day, judgment day for the unbeliever, resurrection day for those who do have faith..... they we will receive their new incorruptible body all in the twinkling of the eye.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

Zen said:

the tribulation on the Jews - Luke 21.24

Per the OT political upheaval

[SUP]

The Rapture.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

Bladerunner said:

I see you have no answer. All you can do is threaten meaninglessly. I trust God rather than you.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

VCO said:

The feet of YHWH not the feet of Jesus. God is present to act.

The Mount of Olives will be split in half from east to west, forming a huge valley, so that half the mountain will move to the north and half to the south.

Click to expand...

Who says when this happened? It could have happened any time. Earthquakes caused mountains to split into valleys often.

It was providing a way to flee from Jerusalam

[SUP]
YHWH not Jesus,

Showing the language is apocalyptic.

Living water flowing from Jerusalem This was the spreading of the Gospel. Compare Isaiah 2.

[SUP]

The Kingly Rule of God will gradually spread over all the earth. Prsise God its happened.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

popeye said:

You don't think their shutting out is a judgement.? The actual judgment of them and the world is told elsewhere.

Of course not. There is no specific 'tribulation', pre or post.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

VCO said:

LOL the Watch! was a general statement to ALL, not the five foolish virgins. You'll do anything to make Scripture mean what you want it to mean. And there IS NO general 'tribulation period', that was for the Jews.

VCO · Jun 10, 2017

popeye said:

Copeland is a Religious CON-ARTIST making Himself RICH. JUST LIKE POPOFF did, and believe it or not, Peter Popoff is BACK ON TV, and people are falling for him yet again.

1 Peter 5:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;

Matthew 7:15 (RSV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 7:22-23 (RSV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and
cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

Jude 1:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Woe to them! For they have traveled in the way of Cain {Self styled worship.}, have abandoned themselves to the error of Balaam for profit {Preach only because they are GREEDY.}, and have perished in Korah’s rebellion {Mix Paganism with the Worship of GOD.}.

2 Corinthians 2:17 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] We live by faith, not by sight.

[video=youtube;ksvEPpi-MTk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvEPpi-MTk[/video]

Matthew 24:24-25 (NIV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you ahead of time.

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

Bladerunner said:

Blake,

My response would be to read Josephus "War" if you want a better understanding of the 70 AD events. You don't have to read the whole thing. Read this one chapter. It will take about 5-10 mins:

Chapter 5 - Bible Study Tools

When you are done reading about the "false prophet" and the destruction event, read the below from the next chapter.

AND now the Romans, upon the flight of the seditious into the city, and upon the burning of the holy house itself, and of all the buildings round about it, brought their ensigns to the temple and set them over against its eastern gate; and there did they offer sacrifices to them, and there did they make Titus imperator (an absolute or supreme ruler) with the greatest acclamations of joy.

The above was the 2 Thes 2 event: [SUP]4 [/SUP]who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.

There is no need for a third temple and none is prophesied. The man of sin was Titus. The Abomination of Desolation were the Roman solders. They caused the desolation of Israel. They were an "abomination" with their ensigns and worship of Titus in the Temple.

This happened in 70 AD:

And the people of the prince (Titus) who is to come Shall destroy the city and the sanctuary (temple). The end of it shall be with a flood (of Roman solders), And till the end of the war (Jewish Roman War) desolations (Jews fleeing and dying) are determined...And on the wing (outer edge) of abominations (Roman troops) shall be one (Titus) who makes desolate, Even until the consummation (utter destruction of Jerusalem and the temple by fire), which is determined, Is poured out on the desolate (wicked Jews).”

Only 98,000 Jews remained after the war. 1.1 million died and the rest scattered leaving the city desolate. These 98K remaining Jews were taken by Titus back to Rome to take part in his victory parade. Even many of these he killed before he got there.

We don't need to speculate about the identity of the Abomination of Desolation as Luke defines it:

[SUP]20 [/SUP]“But when you see Jerusalem surrounded by armies, then know that its desolation is near.

[SUP]14 [/SUP]“So when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing where it ought not”

[SUP]15 [/SUP]“Therefore when you see the ‘abomination of desolation,’ spoken of by Daniel the prophet, standing in the holy place”

You will not find the words, "holy of holies" or "temple" right? The whole Land is considered "Holy," hence, "Holy Land."

Zechariah 2:12

And the Lord will take possession of Judah as His inheritance in the Holy Land, and will again choose Jerusalem.

Roman solders ought not be in the Holy Land. When they were seen surrounding the city in 66 AD, the righteous were to flee Judea to the mountains. What caused the desolation of Jerusalem? The Roman solders, right?

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

People need to come to grips with the fact that the Great Tribulation began in 66 AD when Flavius Vespasian and his Roman troops first surrounded Jerusalem. The tribulation then worsened after a brief pause when Vespasian was recalled to Rome following the death of Nero and before Titus showed up to replace his father. It was during this brief period of "freedom" that the Christians fled the city to Pella.

Titus quickly built embankments all around the city, just as Jesus foretold (Lk 19:43). Inside the city three tyrants (the three wicked shepherds of Zec 11), Simon, John and Eleazar, stole from and slaughtered the people and themselves in a brutal civil war. Hundreds of thousands starved to death and the bodies were left rotting in the streets, in houses, or thrown over the wall.

The conditions inside the city were the worst any nation ever endured (hence "great tribulation"). People tried to flee but were either killed by the tyrants or the Romans if they made it outside. The tribulation ended in Aug 70 AD when the Roman forces broke through the third wall. The presence (parousia) of Christ returned at this time to burn the Temple and pour out fire on the wicked or desolate using Titus. This fulfilled Mat 24:29-31. Everything Jesus said up to the below verse happened to that generation just as He said it would:

[SUP]34 [/SUP]Assuredly, I say to you, this generation will by no means pass away till all these things take place.

Now pay close attention to the next verse:

[SUP]35 [/SUP]Heaven and earth will pass away...But of that day and hour no one knows."

Now He begins discussing what it will be like before heaven and earth pass away.

Ahwatukee · Jun 10, 2017

Just as the blossoming of the trees is a sign of summer being near, so also is the appearing of those signs that Jesus listed. Therefore, "this generation" must refer to the generation were those signs begin to take place, which culminates with the Lord's return to end of the age. That said, the world would have had to experience the following:

The establishment of a seven year agreement with Israel

A rebuilt temple and on-going sacrifices

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which take place during that last seven years

The revealing of the two witness who would have lied dead in the streets of Jerusalem

The setting up of the abomination in the holy place in the middle of the seven years

That time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen

The emergence of the ten-toed kingdom made of iron and partly baked clay

The mark of the beast as a requirement to be able to buy and sell

The creation of the image of the beast

Miracles, signs and wonders performed by the false prophet

All the peoples of the earth would have seen Christ arriving on the clouds and mourned

An angel would have gathered all the birds of the air to eat those Christ will have killed

The beast and the false prophet would have been captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire

An angel would have come down, seized Satan and would have thrown him into the Abyss

The great tribulation saints who died would have been resurrected

The millennial period would have already taken place

The great white throne judgment would have taken place after the millennium

We would currently be living in the eternal state on the new earth and the new Jerusalem

The above is just a list off the top of my head. I'm sure that a more detailed account of what would need to take place in order for "this generation" to have taken place at the destruction of the temple. You who believe this have no idea of the wrath that is yet to be fulfilled and it is coming quickly. Once the church has been gathered and removed from the earth, then the wrath of God will ensue, as well as the revealing of that antichrist.

valiant · Jun 10, 2017

Ahwatukee said:

Just as the blossoming of the trees is a sign of summer being near, so also is the appearing of those signs that Jesus listed. Therefore, "this generation" must refer to the generation were those signs begin to take place, which culminates with the Lord's return to end of the age. That said, the world would have had to experience the following:

The establishment of a seven year agreement with Israel

A rebuilt temple and on-going sacrifices

The seals, trumpets and bowl judgments, which take place during that last seven years

The revealing of the two witness who would have lied dead in the streets of Jerusalem

The setting up of the abomination in the holy place in the middle of the seven years

That time of great tribulation such as the world has not seen

The emergence of the ten-toed kingdom made of iron and partly baked clay

The mark of the beast as a requirement to be able to buy and sell

The creation of the image of the beast

Miracles, signs and wonders performed by the false prophet

All the peoples of the earth would have seen Christ arriving on the clouds and mourned

An angel would have gathered all the birds of the air to eat those Christ will have killed

The beast and the false prophet would have been captured and thrown alive into the lake of fire

An angel would have come down, seized Satan and would have thrown him into the Abyss

The great tribulation saints who died would have been resurrected

The millennial period would have already taken place

The great white throne judgment would have taken place after the millennium

We would currently be living in the eternal state on the new earth and the new Jerusalem

The above is just a list off the top of my head. I'm sure that a more detailed account of what would need to take place in order for "this generation" to have taken place at the destruction of the temple. You who believe this have no idea of the wrath that is yet to be fulfilled and it is coming quickly. Once the church has been gathered and removed from the earth, then the wrath of God will ensue, as well as the revealing of that antichrist.

'This generation' always meant to the Lord Jesus Christ the generation in which He was living.

He was in fact saying that 'these things' (24.3)would have taken place within a generation. It will be noted that 'these things' did not include the second coming. But it did include the desolating abominator and the destruction of the Temple. Indeed the latter was the main 'thing' in mind.

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

Correct, the Jewish (or Mosaic) age ended in 70 AD.

You are making some wild assumptions based on misinterpretations from other passages. But some you have correct and they were fulfilled.

This is not Biblical. You base it on a false interpretation of Dan 9. The 70 weeks were over in 33 AD.

This is not taught anywhere.

Another false assumption. Nothing states that these take place during the final 7 years of earth. There is strong evidence for the seals and trumpets to relate to events of 66-70 AD.

I can point to one witness who died at the hands of the Roman beast in 70 AD.

See my last post as I identified this for you.

Happened in 66-70 AD. Those in Judea were to flee the great tribulation of Israel, the death of the nation, and when 93% of its population was killed.

Now you are correctly in the future, pre end of world events.

Happened in 70 AD as recorded by Josephus:

See "War of the Jews", Book 6, Chapter 5 entitled: THE GREAT DISTRESS THE JEWS WERE IN UPON THE CONFLAGRATION OF THE HOLY HOUSE. CONCERNING A FALSE PROPHET, AND THE SIGNS THAT PRECEDED THIS DESTRUCTION

Chew on this for awhile then we can continue.

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

valiant said:

I agree that it included the A of D and Great Tribulation of Jerusalem. But it also included the parousia (presence) return of Christ.

Muzungu256 · Jun 10, 2017

i feel you dispensational guys are in some dual covenant thing its very carnal theology????????????? its as if the judaism is just another path to God and they are just on "hold" until God is done with this church................ here is the facts: there is only one ekklesia (called out ones) in the old testament it was the circumcised covenant and people of Israel (and you could join it and convert to it ester8:17 and ruth the moabite grandmommy of king David) and now in the new testament its those who are in Christ Jesus its very simple galatians 3:29...........

popeye · Jun 10, 2017

valiant said:

The 5 foolish were believers. Believers are not Judged in the next life. they are judged here ,while living.

Only pretrib rapture model fits in with the 10 virgin parable

popeye · Jun 10, 2017

VCO said:

Copeland is a Religious CON-ARTIST making Himself RICH. JUST LIKE POPOFF did, and believe it or not, Peter Popoff is BACK ON TV, and people are falling for him yet again.

1 Peter 5:2 (NKJV)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly;

Matthew 7:15 (RSV)
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing but inwardly are ravenous wolves.

Matthew 7:22-23 (RSV)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] On that day many will say to me, `Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and
cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then will I declare to them, `I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.'

Jude 1:11 (HCSB)
[SUP]11 [/SUP] Woe to them! For they have traveled in the way of Cain {Self styled worship.}, have abandoned themselves to the error of Balaam for profit {Preach only because they are GREEDY.}, and have perished in Korah’s rebellion {Mix Paganism with the Worship of GOD.}.

2 Corinthians 2:17 (NIV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

2 Corinthians 5:7 (NIV)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] We live by faith, not by sight.

[video=youtube;ksvEPpi-MTk]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ksvEPpi-MTk[/video]

Matthew 24:24-25 (NIV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect--if that were possible.
[SUP]25 [/SUP] See, I have told you ahead of time.

I am sure nothing I say matters,but what are we to do with King David,since he did worse than copeland?

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

popeye said:

The Great Tribulation was the Lamb's wrath against that "faithless and perverse" generation of His time. Those wicked Jews who put Him to death were to see Him return in His parousia in 70 AD to destroy their temple, city and them.

The 5 foolish virgins didn't wait. They believed a Messiah would come and save them from the Romans. 6,000 followed the False Prophet to their deaths. The rest of the believing who did not heed the earlier warning to flee where saved right here:

I suppose the account of it would seem to be a fable, were it not related by those that saw it, and were not the events that followed it of so considerable a nature as to deserve such signals; for, before sun-setting, chariots and troops of soldiers in their armor were seen running about among the clouds, and surrounding of cities. Moreover, at that feast which we call Pentecost, as the priests were going by night into the inner [court of the temple,] as their custom was, to perform their sacred ministrations, they said that, in the first place, they felt a quaking, and heard a great noise, and after that they heard a sound as of a great multitude, saying, "Let us remove hence."

Thus they were gathered by the angels, just as Christ said. They escaped the wrath upon Jerusalem. We have an historical record of it.

VCO · Jun 10, 2017

valiant said:

OH, do you ever have a RUDE AWAKENING COMING. Remember, you certainly were WARNED.

PlainWord · Jun 10, 2017

70 AD was only the judgment of Christ upon Jerusalem, using heathen armies as He did so many times during Old Testament times. However, Christ also sent His angels to gather His people. God was said to ride on clouds and come in judgment, when heathen armies came upon God's people. It was God's use of the heathens to afflict His people due to disobedience. Christ did the same and it was called the "parousia" or presence return of Christ.

Some have ignorantly mocked Partial Preterists' stance about the coming of the Lord in judgment in 70 AD, accusing us of proposing the resurrection occurred at that time, also. Christ only came in judgment upon Jerusalem at that time. Full Preterism teaches there was also a resurrection at that time. However, that is not the case with Partial Preterism. In fact, even Full and Partial Preterists engage in quite heated discussions over this difference of opinion.

Behold, he shall come up as clouds, and his chariots shall be as a whirlwind: his horses are swifter than eagles. Woe unto us! for we are spoiled. O Jerusalem, wash thine heart from wickedness, that thou mayest be saved. How long shall thy vain thoughts lodge within thee? (Jer 4:13-14)

God judged Egypt using heathen armies, but look at how He described the judgment in His own words:

For the day is near, even the day of the LORD is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen. And the sword shall come upon Egypt, and great pain shall be in Ethiopia, when the slain shall fall in Egypt, and they shall take away her multitude, and her foundations shall be broken down. (Eze 30:3-4)

God said He would come, Himself. Yet it was heathen armies who came.

At Tehaphnehes also the day shall be darkened, when I shall break there the yokes of Egypt: and the pomp of her strength shall cease in her: as for her, a cloud shall cover her, and her daughters shall go into captivity. Thus will I execute judgments in Egypt: and they shall know that I am the LORD. (Eze 30:18-19)

Here, God states, Himself, that He will use Assyria as the rod of His anger to judge his own people.

O Assyrian, the rod of mine anger, and the staff in their hand is mine indignation. I will send him against a hypocritical nation, and against the people of my wrath will I give him a charge, to take the spoil, and to take the prey, and to tread them down like the mire of the streets. (Isa 10:5-6)

So this same thing occurred in 70 AD against Jerusalem, using the same figurative language of clouds in Matthew 24.

The Rapture

Senior Member

Banned

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member

Banned

popeye

Guest

popeye

Guest

Senior Member

Senior Member

Senior Member