The Rapture

[Bladerunner]

why the fear of spiritualizing and even accusation??????? everyone does it a little even rapturefolks spiritualize the 7 churches into church ages or somehow dance around it......... so we all do it its ok to spiritualize.......... cant take it all literally in isaiah 65 it says i create new heaven and earth and guess what it includes people still dying so how many take that literally?????????? not many......... maybe jews

Your words:"everyone does it a little even rapture folks spiritualize the 7 churches into church ages or somehow dance around it."

The seven churches were real and Jesus Himself wrote each one a letter to introduce himself (differently for each church), to tell them of the good things and to tell them of the bad things and to give them Praise, Praise and a Warning or just a warning. He also tells us that His church will contain people from every church.

The way they are written gives us the allusions that what was happening in those 7 churches back then will happen to churches through the ages into the present time. Each Assembly (church) will take on characteristics of one or more of these churches that He wrote to back then. If you really look at the letters, you will find that this is true..Every church (the assembly or people within) today is living out these His words of Prophecy all 7 of them.

 

[Bladerunner]

no change it to 'much of Revelation' and so say most sensible interpreters.

Would you please rephrase the above post.... it went over my head.....Thank you..

 

[popeye]

popeye....... in rev 14 are the 144,000 that were sealed Jewish People who God sends to earth to Preach to those on earth His message. It is not sure where he places these people once he redeems them. I suspect they will be on the same level as the Church. Besides the Church, there is only two other categories of Saints. This is found rev 6:11...their "fellowservants" same as they are and their "brethern". these will be the multitudes of tribulation saints taken up prior to the Great tribulations or the last half of Daniels & 70th week.

Well in this case, Leviticus does not have a part. The harvest speak of the First Fruits. Jesus' resurrection is celebrated on the first fruits.

Not sure where you are going here. An ancient Rabbi predicted that the Bible speaks of 10 dimensions. Our science has said they can confirm 6 dimensions (don't ask me how). We live in 3 dimensions (length, depth and width) and can see a fourth dimension of time. Our perception of time in lineal (straight line). We can only see the Past. What every you see, hear, feel or otherwise perceive has already happened. It is not even present...It is always past.

Ruth a priestess, married a Hebrew. Thus Jesus's genealogy runs through Ruth, a Gentile. As far as representing the Bride of Christ, I am not too sure here but am sure that she represents the "kinsman redeemer" rule (given to Isreal by God) that preserves land given unto each family forever.

Have a blessed Day

Blade

The 144 k in rev 14 do not preach the gospel,an angel does.

They are specifically labeled First fruits.

In Ruth,Boaz steps in as a kinsman redeemer. He purchases the property.

He marries a gentile,Ruth.

The typology is vivid. But if the facts are not showcased,you can miss it.

Ruth can not,technically share as a kinsman due to her gentile lineage.

Again,the typology is vivid. Gentiles brought in through purchase and marriage.

 

[Bladerunner]

The rapture will occur at the end of time and I may or may not be there. But it won't be for the reason you give.



I have no doubt that NO CHRISTIAN will be left behind

Reads Acts 17.11 again

You think because you say you 'believe in him' and yet tear up/smear his words.... (John 1:1 "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.."),, that you will simply walk into heaven along with the rest of us.....

I think not my friend... You will be like the foolish virgins who also knew of the Lord but did not obey or follow him but rather followed Mankind. When they call out to him, he did answer:John 1:1 "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."

It is said there is be an awakening, a revival of the Born Again Christians with numbers of Christians far greater that has ever been. So far that has not happened. For those following the words of false prophets will be left behind. Those false Prophets are today everywhere, on TV, in stadiums (large churches) that twist and symbolize the word of God to fit their lifestyle or needs. These are the Ones who will be left behind. Are you one of them...From your writings, you are. Only you and God know for sure. But be assured that the Virgins believed in God but thought they could get in any ole time they had a mind to..It did not work for them and it will not work for those that ............You fill in the answer to that one........ after all it is your soul and your eternity.

That wakening I spoke of in the third paragraph will most likely happen after the Rapture takes place. WHY?? Because only then people like you will find out they were traveling the wrong path the whole time. If this is your plight, are you prepared to DIE in the name of Jesus or are you going to take the simpler,easier road by joining the one world religion?????It is of course your choice.

 

[valiant]

Would you please rephrase the above post.... it went over my head.....Thank you..

Most sensible interpreters say that a good part of Revelation lies in the part.

 

[valiant]

You think because you say you 'believe in him' and yet tear up/smear his words.... (John 1:1 "1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.."),, that you will simply walk into heaven along with the rest of us.....

do you really think that Jesus Christ is interested in what prophetic interpretation we hold? Your premillennialism is based on Darby and Newton, not on Scripture. I follow the Scriptures..

I think not my friend... You will be like the foolish virgins who also knew of the Lord but did not obey or follow him but rather followed Mankind. When they call out to him, he did answer:John 1:1 "But he answered and said, Verily I say unto you, I know you not."

LOL

It is said there is be an awakening, a revival of the Born Again Christians with numbers of Christians far greater that has ever been. So far that has not happened.

Maybe due to the premillennial misinterpretation of Scripture?

For those following the words of false prophets will be left behind.

Fortunately I follow the true

Those false Prophets are today everywhere, on TV, in stadiums (large churches) that twist and symbolize the word of God to fit their lifestyle or needs. These are the Ones who will be left behind.

You may have oddballs ministering in the US. We stand for the truth.

Are you one of them...From your writings, you are. Only you and God know for sure.

No I WAS one. Until God showed me His truth. Then I forsook premillennialism with its unscriptural teaching

But be assured that the Virgins believed in God but thought they could get in any ole time they had a mind to..It did not work for them and it will not work for those that

well fortunately for you I don't think God is interested in our prophetic viewpoint. or I'd be saying the same to you. God uses prophecy to stir us to serve him, not to lay down wild schemes.

That wakening I spoke of in the third paragraph will most likely happen after the Rapture takes place.

Rubbish. There will be nothing earthly after the Rapture.

WHY?? Because only then people like you will find out they were traveling the wrong path the whole time. If this is your plight, are you prepared to DIE in the name of Jesus or are you going to take the simpler,easier road by joining the one world religion?????It is of course your choice.

It will be the choice for us ALL. Although it probably won't be literally a world religion.

 

[Bladerunner]

The 144 k in rev 14 do not preach the gospel,an angel does.

They are specifically labeled First fruits.

In Ruth,Boaz steps in as a kinsman redeemer. He purchases the property.

He marries a gentile,Ruth.

The typology is vivid. But if the facts are not showcased,you can miss it.

Ruth can not,technically share as a kinsman due to her gentile lineage.

Again,the typology is vivid. Gentiles brought in through purchase and marriage.

Yes, Marriage........After they accepted YAHWEH only...... Refer to Rehab.. a gentile harlot yet in the blood line of Jesus.

What ever the role of the 144,000 is and the Bible does not tells us in direct terms. It does appear that the 144,000 is transformed (How or Why unknown) into the multitudes from every nation on earth and are to be tribulation saints.

 

[Muzungu256]

hey valiant are you amillennial as well???????????? also friend what church do you go to??????
and bladerunner what play acting are you talking about in that post i didnt even ask a question i only said its crazy to believe someone can be immortal outside of Christ and before the resurrection and scorpions tormenting them in this life the whaaaaaaaaaaaat that i added was more like a shout and not an actual question......... you know??????????

 

[PlainWord]

Wow,,,you do it again..... You attempt to place the word "cloud" in the spiritual world for everything and every verse. You remind me of the Hippies in the past who while on Dope, would fly in the sky ...........and see everything in that frame of mind or at least they thought they did. In other words, their reality was not really grounded here on earth.

Having said that,,,," they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven ". This phrase from the verse you used, tells us literally that everyone on earth will see Jesus come down from the clouds at the 2nd advent. Yes, since he lives in the third heaven, he actually has to come through physicially the first and second heavens to get to earth?

Now the Rapture verse: 1 thess 4:16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first:

Here he is descending from Heaven..His Abode in 3rd heaven. It does not say HE comes to earth...It does not say that anybody other than those raptured see him.

17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

Here He is in the Clouds....He does not come to earth to get everyone but rather snatches them up fro the surface of the earth into the Clouds. That is what "caught-up " means to snatch away/up... And finally "to meet the Lord in the air" should tell anyone that the meeting does not take place on earth but rather in the 1st Heaven (the SKY).

Please get you head out of the clouds,,,, HE will not be there for you if you continue to spew forth this garbage.

Where to start with this mess of a rebuttal?? Ignoring the insults, as tempted as I am to engage you in kind, you think what you want about the "clouds of heaven." You are thinking in two dimensions. Heaven isn't in our dimension. It's not like you could travel there if you had a capable rocket ship. Heaven is in another dimension, all around us. So, when heaven opens up, everyone can see it.

I know those raptured were caught up. The Elect were gathered together from all over heaven and earth. Where did I say they weren't?

 

[valiant]

hey valiant are you amillennial as well???????????? also friend what church do you go to??????

Yes I am amillennial. I was premillennial due to the Scofield Bible, but I came to recognise the inadequacies of that interpretation.

I attend an evangelical Anglican church, but I am really Baptist.

 

[PlainWord]

Hey Blade,

[SUP]30 [/SUP]Then the sign of the Son of Man will appear in heaven, and then all the tribes of the earth will mourn, and they will see the Son of Man coming on the clouds of heaven with power and great glory.

Of the 110 times that the word "tribes" is found in the Bible, how many times were tribes other than the Tribes of Israel mentioned? In other words, how many nations (other than Israel) were divided into tribes in the Bible?

 

[PlainWord]

Blade,

[SUP]29 [/SUP]And I bestow upon you a kingdom, just as My Father bestowed one upon Me, [SUP]30 [/SUP]that you may eat and drink at My table in My kingdom, and sit on thrones judging the twelve tribes of Israel.”

When the disciples received the kingdom, did they get to judge all the tribes of the world or just the tribes of Israel?

 

[Bladerunner]

Yes I am amillennial. I was premillennial due to the Scofield Bible, but I came to recognise the inadequacies of that interpretation.

I attend an evangelical Anglican church, but I am really Baptist.

most baptist are pre-millennial

 

[Bladerunner]

[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of this prophecy, and keep those things which are written in it; for the time is near.

Is 2,000 years near? Maybe in your world.

It is in God's world...only what 2 days?

 

[Bladerunner]

No,otherwise there was no reason to preach the gospel to the Jew. Come to think of it,under your logic,all a gentile would need is Jewish conversion.

You are wrong.

Jesus preached the gospel to the patriarchs when he descended into the earth. Then,they resurrected with Jesus and were seen.

All the patriarchs are already in heaven,in fact those OT martyrs are confined under the altar until we will see the "innumerable number" depicted in rev before the throne.

Popeye,,,, those OT patriarchs whose souls were taken to heaven with Jesus are awaiting the Rapture so their bodies can be reunited with their souls, thus enabling the transformation of a mortal body to an immortal body.

Those saints under the altar are not there yet. They are some of the ones left behind after the Rapture. They were the ones who knew God yet for what ever reason did not truly believe in HIM. Now, they understand what has happened and realize they needed to change their mindset.

 

[Bladerunner]

The rapture will occur at the end of time and I may or may not be there. But it won't be for the reason you give.



I have no doubt that NO CHRISTIAN will be left behind

Reads Acts 17.11 again

you do know the problem with that don't you.... The RCC has many people that truly believe the Mother Mary can redeem their souls in the place of Jesus. They believe the Pope does no wrong and believe he is vicar of Christ. They too call themselves Christians

Having said that, if no Christian will be left behind, then there will be no Harlot who rides the beast.

 

[Bladerunner]

do you really think that Jesus Christ is interested in what prophetic interpretation we hold? Your premillennialism is based on Darby and Newton, not on Scripture. I follow the Scriptures..



LOL



Maybe due to the premillennial misinterpretation of Scripture?



Fortunately I follow the true



You may have oddballs ministering in the US. We stand for the truth.



No I WAS one. Until God showed me His truth. Then I forsook premillennialism with its unscriptural teaching




well fortunately for you I don't think God is interested in our prophetic viewpoint. or I'd be saying the same to you. God uses prophecy to stir us to serve him, not to lay down wild schemes.



Rubbish. There will be nothing earthly after the Rapture.



It will be the choice for us ALL. Although it probably won't be literally a world religion.

In other words there will be no 1000 years of Jesus' reign on earth.

 

[RickyZ]

When Jesus comes for the church, He is not returning to the earth, but will appear in the atmosphere to gather the church, which will happen in an instant. From there He will take the entire church back to the Father's house in heaven.

Let’s look at that being caught up to meet the Lord, with a focus on the ‘to meet’ part of it. In Biblical times, when a dignitary or visitor was coming to visit you, it was customary for you to go out ‘to meet’ them. You then escort them on the final leg of their journey to your home or city[1]. When we are caught up ‘to meet’ Jesus, we will then turn around and “escort” Him on His way back to earth. When we are caught up to meet Him, it is we, not He, who will reverse direction. We will see these things, be caught up ‘to meet’ Him as He approaches, and return to earth with Him for the millennium.

[HR][/HR][1] Genesis 14:17; 19:1; 29:13 for example

 

[popeye]

Popeye,,,, those OT patriarchs whose souls were taken to heaven with Jesus are awaiting the Rapture so their bodies can be reunited with their souls, thus enabling the transformation of a mortal body to an immortal body.

Those saints under the altar are not there yet. They are some of the ones left behind after the Rapture. They were the ones who knew God yet for what ever reason did not truly believe in HIM. Now, they understand what has happened and realize they needed to change their mindset.

1 thes 4 says "the dead in Christ".

Those are NOT OT saints.

 

[VCO]

most baptist are pre-millennial

St. Irenaeus (c. 130–202), an early Christian Premillennialist.

Irenaeus and Justin represent two of the most outspoken premillennialists of the pre-Nicean church. Other early premillennialists included Pseudo-Barnabas,[SUP][21][/SUP] Papias,[SUP][22][/SUP] Methodius, Lactantius,[SUP][23][/SUP] Commodianus[SUP][24][/SUP] Theophilus, Tertullian,[SUP][25][/SUP] Melito,[SUP][26][/SUP] Hippolytus of Rome, Victorinus of Pettau [SUP][27][/SUP][SUP][28][/SUP] and various Gnostics groups and the Montanists. Many of these theologians and others in the early church expressed their belief in premillennialism through their acceptance of the sexta-septamillennial tradition.

So are almost all Evangelicals, Messianic Christians, Grace Bretheran Churchs, Bible Churches, Community Churches, Plymouth Bretheran, etc.