Women should not be allowed to preach in church

[CS1]

And sadly, she is outta line. A pastor must be the HUSBAND of 1 wife, per 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1.

no she not out of line she has a husband and a wife

 

[serpentdove]

Adam simply means human.

Adam means humankind.

Adam was not called Ish until woman[Ishah]was separated out of him.

Wrong. She was in him. He kept the name, Adam.

 

[notbythesword]

How Paul chose to run his assembly and decide who would preach in it was up to his own personal preference. Which one of us here actually knows how the people of that time tended to socially behave? The important thing that I noticed when looking at 1 Timothy 2:12, was that Paul never said that it was God who does not allow woman preaching…it was himself who didn’t allow it.

HCSB translation - I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

It sounds like Paul could be expressing his own opinions in this matter, not necessarily what has been ordained by God. If Paul said something like “God will not allow” then it would be different. However, he expressly said “I do not allow”. This is backed up in interlinear translations as well.

 

[trofimus]

1 Jn 3:2, Re 1:14

You lost the context. You said something like that Adam and Eve were naked because they lost the cover of light.

No, thats not what the Bible says. Bible says their eyes were opened, thats why they saw they are naked.

 

[SAS]

I only quoted the Scripture, they are not my words, so slow your round. Your problem is not with my sister it's with the Scripture, like you told me once you have to go with the Scripture and if your doctrine does not line up you have to change, again, not my words.

Just because Adam was a lame, it doesn't change the verse, sorry.

'
lol.... "lame"... brings a whole new twist and "debate"......
I'll go back,to just reading and sharing my two bits with the Lord.

 

[Meggido]

The system works.

What do Jurassic park videos have to do with what we are discussing.

 

[wolfwint]

How Paul chose to run his assembly and decide who would preach in it was up to his own personal preference. Which one of us here actually knows how the people of that time tended to socially behave? The important thing that I noticed when looking at 1 Timothy 2:12, was that Paul never said that it was God who does not allow woman preaching…it was himself who didn’t allow it.

HCSB translation - I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

It sounds like Paul could be expressing his own opinions in this matter, not necessarily what has been ordained by God. If Paul said something like “God will not allow” then it would be different. However, he expressly said “I do not allow”. This is backed up in interlinear translations as

So why God never put woman in an religiour leader Position? Why there non clear expressions that woman can be bishop ore Leader ore eldest in the church?
Why always the bible claimes that woman are to submit to the man. Why punished God the woman that their man will rule over her? Why Paul gave this as reason for that the woman should not teach? Only because for funktioniert ore because some claim he was an woman enemy?
There is none one Single vers that woman can/ should be in leadership of an church! Preaching is exercises authority. Non single vers shows that woman should have authority. IF I am wrong please show me.

 

[wolfwint]

How Paul chose to run his assembly and decide who would preach in it was up to his own personal preference. Which one of us here actually knows how the people of that time tended to socially behave? The important thing that I noticed when looking at 1 Timothy 2:12, was that Paul never said that it was God who does not allow woman preaching…it was himself who didn’t allow it.

HCSB translation - I do not allow a woman to teach or to have authority over a man; instead, she is to be silent.

It sounds like Paul could be expressing his own opinions in this matter, not necessarily what has been ordained by God. If Paul said something like “God will not allow” then it would be different. However, he expressly said “I do not allow”. This is backed up in interlinear translations as

So why God never put woman in an religiour leader Position? Why there non clear expressions that woman can be bishop ore Leader ore eldest in the church?
Why always the bible claimes that woman are to submit to the man. Why punished God the woman that their man will rule over her? Why Paul gave this as reason for that the woman should not teach? Only because for funktioniert ore because some claim he was an woman enemy?
There is none one Single vers that woman can/ should be in leadership of an church! Preaching is exercises authority. Non single vers shows that woman should have authority. IF I am wrong please show me.

Ups sorry, my part begins with: So why God......

 

[Stephen63]

Paul said THE WOMAN ( as in 1 - singular - not plural) was deceived. Who was that woman? Eve. Paul NEVER said that all women, most women or women in general are more easily deceived than men. That's not in the Bible, nevertheless certain camps like to assert that "women are more easily deceived than men" although Paul never said that. Paul did say, "ALL Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work (2 Tim 3:16-17). So, we aren't limited to just the scriptures that Paul wrote. There are numerous well- documented, Biblical examples of women who were not deceived: Sarah, Mary, Esther, Jehosheba, Huldah, Lydia, Rahab, Midwives, Abigail, Dorcas, Phoebe, Deborah, Wise Woman of Abel, Women who traveled with Jesus, Anna, Queen of Sheba, Priscilla, Zipporah, Faithful Canaanite Mother, Rufus' mom, Lois, Eunice, Jochebed, Hannah. Therefore, what Paul said about Eve being deceived doesn't apply to ALL women, and there's no concrete evidence to prove that it applies to MOST women.

Eve was deceived. There's no denying that. Likewise, the very same Bible tells us that numerous male leaders were involved in and propagated deceptive cult practices, idolatry, and heresies: Jeroboam (1 Ki 14:1-20), Nadab (1 Ki 15:25-26), Baasha (1 Ki 15:32-34, 16:1-17, 6:11-13) Zimri (1 Ki 16:19), Omri (1 Ki 16:25-26) Ahab (1 Ki 16:30-33), Ahaziah (1 Ki 22:51-53), Zechariah (2 Ki 15:9), Menahem (2 Ki 15:18), Pekahiah (2 Ki 15:24), Pekah (2 Ki 15:28), Ahaz (16:2-3), Manasseh (2 Ki 21:1-7,9-12,16, 24:3-4), Amon (2 Ki 21:20-22), Jehoiakim (2 Ki 23:37), Zedekiah (2 Ki 24:18-19) - to name a few.

Currently, most of the world's major false religions (cults) have been founded by men - not women: Islam (Muhammad), Buddhism (Sanskrit), atheistic communism, Sun Myung Moon's Unification, Mormons (Joseph Smith), Modern Witchcraft (Gerald Gardner), New Age movement (Edgar Cayce), Scientology (L. Ron Hubbard), Bahia (Mírzá Ḥusayn-`Alí Núr), Sikhism (Guru Nanak), David Koresh, Charles Manson, Jim Jones, Yaweh Ben Yaweh.

If some in the church are going to use the "Eve was deceived and women are more easily deceived than men" argument in order to try to prove that men are more cut out for leadership than women, it is only fair to talk about the numerous male leaders in scripture who were involved in and propagated deceptive cult practices, idolatry and heresies.

~~You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to proverbs35 again.~~

 

[preacher4truth]

And sadly, she is outta line. A pastor must be the HUSBAND of 1 wife, per 1 Tim. 3 and Titus 1.

Agreed, but some reject sound doctrine.

 

[notbythesword]

Hi wolfwint. Just so you know where I stand, I do believe that the Bible defines the man as being head of the household. From the very beginning we see how this played out in Genesis 3:16. Also in 1 Corinthians 11:3 we see a pretty straight forward line of authority among other verses. This is not what I am talking about though. I’m talking about if it’s EVER okay for a woman to teach.

For instance, let’s say a woman is running a troubled youth group home. Is she not allowed to spread the word because she is a woman? And if a Christian woman desires to go out into the world and share God’s word to as many as will listen, would you pull her away from that task…simply because she is a woman? Do we need to recall all female missionaries from abroad?

The strict stance that so many cling to against any sort of female evangelism doesn’t feel right to me. It actually makes me think about Jesus breaking the Sabbath to heal a man with a paralyzed hand.

Luke 6:6-10 [SUP]_ [/SUP]On another Sabbath He entered the synagogue and was teaching. A man was there whose right hand was paralyzed. The scribes and Pharisees were watching Him closely, to see if He would heal on the Sabbath, so that they could find a charge against Him. But He knew their thoughts and told the man with the paralyzed hand, “Get up and stand here.” So he got up and stood there. Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do what is good or to do what is evil, to save life or to destroy it?” After looking around at them all, He told him, “Stretch out your hand.” He did so, and his hand was restored.

Jesus was saying that just because he was doing works on the Sabbath, did not mean it was wrong. It was not wrong because he was doing what was good. If a woman has a desire to preach and evangelize, or has an opportunity to save someone, is that really a sin too? Would less preachers in this world really be a good thing? I don't look at everything so black and white.

 

[wolfwint]

Hi wolfwint. Just so you know where I stand, I do believe that the Bible defines the man as being head of the household. From the very beginning we see how this played out in Genesis 3:16. Also in 1 Corinthians 11:3 we see a pretty straight forward line of authority among other verses. This is not what I am talking about though. I’m talking about if it’s EVER okay for a woman to teach.

For instance, let’s say a woman is running a troubled youth group home. Is she not allowed to spread the word because she is a woman? And if a Christian woman desires to go out into the world and share God’s word to as many as will listen, would you pull her away from that task…simply because she is a woman? Do we need to recall all female missionaries from abroad?

The strict stance that so many cling to against any sort of female evangelism doesn’t feel right to me. It actually makes me think about Jesus breaking the Sabbath to heal a man with a paralyzed hand.

Luke 6:6-10 [SUP]_ [/SUP]On another Sabbath He entered the synagogue and was teaching. A man was there whose right hand was paralyzed. The scribes and Pharisees were watching Him closely, to see if He would heal on the Sabbath, so that they could find a charge against Him. But He knew their thoughts and told the man with the paralyzed hand, “Get up and stand here.” So he got up and stood there. Then Jesus said to them, “I ask you: Is it lawful on the Sabbath to do what is good or to do what is evil, to save life or to destroy it?” After looking around at them all, He told him, “Stretch out your hand.” He did so, and his hand was restored.

Jesus was saying that just because he was doing works on the Sabbath, did not mean it was wrong. It was not wrong because he was doing what was good. If a woman has a desire to preach and evangelize, or has an opportunity to save someone, is that really a sin too? Would less preachers in this world really be a good thing? I don't look at everything so black and white.

Hi notbythesword, I agree with you. I have in mind the OP theme. Woman should not preach in church. How can I judge somebody who spread the gospel? But I find if in the Missionministrie throug a woman man became christians, finally if they are mature they should lead then the newbuild assembly. And in some cultures only woman can do mission among woman.
Many man are not ready to take the duty they have from our Lord.

Missionministrie and churchministrie are for me to different pair of shoes.

 

[rdde]

Hi Dino246,
well Paul is very clear here in ; [FONT=&quot]12 But I do not allow a woman to teach or exercise authority over a man, but to remain quiet.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]13 For it was Adam who was first [h]created, and then Eve.[/FONT][FONT=&quot] [/FONT][FONT=&quot]14 And it was not Adam who was deceived, but the woman being deceived, [i]fell into transgression.[/FONT][FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif] [/FONT]

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]Dino246 if you read the word ' for it was' at the start of verse 13 these words are seen as the cause of the prior statement in verse 12. The woman should not be in spiritual authority over a man ...because she was the one deceived not the man. Adam went in eyes wide open to the sin he knew it was sin but eve could not see clearly that what Satan was saying was a lie so .. therefore God says she can not be in spiritual authority over a man or teach him in a local church as leader /Pastor/ Elder etc.

dan[/FONT]

 

[ForthAngel]

no she not out of line she has a husband and a wife

Oopsie Ga 3:28

Bit confused on CS1's post here. Is it in reference to Galatians 3:28?

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Wondering if those who are using this verse to justify female headship also use it to justify practicing homosexuality as well? Logically, you should be if it works in the defense of female headship.

You guys for gender fluidity? Practicing homosexuality okay? Says right there no more male or female, so why not support a homosexual lifestyle right?

All in all, just trying to make sense of CS1's post. Looks like polygamy and homosexuality all in one. Pretty unsavory for a moderator of a Christian site to be pushing something like that, so hoping he will clear it up for me.

 

[preacher4truth]

Bit confused on CS1's post here. Is it in reference to Galatians 3:28?

28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus.

Wondering if those who are using this verse to justify female headship also use it to justify practicing homosexuality as well? Logically, you should be if it works in the defense of female headship.

You guys for gender fluidity? Practicing homosexuality okay? Says right there no more male or female, so why not support a homosexual lifestyle right?

All in all, just trying to make sense of CS1's post. Looks like polygamy and homosexuality all in one. Pretty unsavory for a moderator of a Christian site to be pushing something like that, so hoping he will clear it up for me.

IMO I believe he is saying that Christ is the husband, and, she is a wife too, so women preachers are justified.

 

[Meggido]

IMO I believe he is saying that Christ is the husband, and, she is a wife too, so women preachers are justified.

I am still waiting for one of you guys that say a woman pastor is not Biblical and use 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 to defend your interpretation to do us a favor?

Please show us ANY version of the Bible that shows the actual word Pastor is used in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1.

Oh and do not wage war with definitions and the usual double mouthed talk that you see.....Humm , errrr,,,, Bishop and overseer and elder actually mean Pastor, ya see.

 

[preacher4truth]

I am still waiting for one of you guys that say a woman pastor is not Biblical and use 1 Tim 3 and Titus 1 to defend your interpretation to do us a favor?

Please show us ANY version of the Bible that shows the actual word Pastor is used in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1.

Oh and do not wage war with definitions and the usual double mouthed talk that you see.....Humm , errrr,,,, Bishop and overseer and elder actually mean Pastor, ya see.

OK, I'll say it because God says it - A woman pastor isn't biblical. You've been shown this time and again but reject truth.

Any honest person knows that bishop and elder are the same as pastor. You've already been shown, and reject the Word of God to fit your false doctrine, so the only double talk here is with you.

For those who don't wrest Scripture, Titus 1:5 & 7 show plainly they are interchangeable terms of the same office of overseer, elder, or what some call "pastor."

 

[Stephen63]

Where in the Bible or any other ancient book does it say a woman had multiple husbands at the same?

Why would the Bible say such a thing when it never happened?

That's why it doesn't say "a woman of one husband".

 

[Dino246]

Hi Dino246, ...' for it was' at the start of verse 13 these words are seen as the cause of the prior statement in verse 12. The woman should not be in spiritual authority over a man ...because she was the one deceived not the man.

Your logic is still faulty here. You are claiming that these words "are seen as the cause of the prior statement". I will concede that such is one way to read them. However, it is not the only legitimate way to read them. If, as you claim, all women are forbidden from leading because one woman was deceived, then by that logic, all men should be barred from leading because one man sinned (which is, biblically, far more heinous!). My reading of it at least is logically consistent: that a singular, particular woman was barred from teaching because she was teaching beliefs about women, men and origins which are not consistent with Scripture. To wit, that Eve was created first, and had special knowledge. Paul's whole argument makes perfect sense in this light, and otherwise is disjointed and inconsistent.

OK, I'll say it because God says it - A woman pastor isn't biblical. You've been shown this time and again but reject truth.

Any honest person knows that bishop and elder are the same as pastor. You've already been shown, and reject the Word of God to fit your false doctrine, so the only double talk here is with you.

For those who don't wrest Scripture, Titus 1:5 & 7 show plainly they are interchangeable terms of the same office of overseer, elder, or what some call "pastor."

"Rejecting the truth"? "Any honest person"? "For those don't wrest Scripture"? Wow... what hypocritical statements. You "reject the truth" that the Greek words translated "pastor" and those translated "elder" or "overseer" are not the same words. Titus does not show plainly that they are interchangeable, because the Greek word translated "pastor" is not in these verses.

Cease with your eisegesis, and reign in your dogmatic attitude.

 

[Meggido]

OK, I'll say it because God says it - A woman pastor isn't biblical. You've been shown this time and again but reject truth.

Any honest person knows that bishop and elder are the same as pastor. You've already been shown, and reject the Word of God to fit your false doctrine, so the only double talk here is with you.

For those who don't wrest Scripture, Titus 1:5 & 7 show plainly they are interchangeable terms of the same office of overseer, elder, or what some call "pastor."

Actually any honest person would know the difference between bishop, elder and pastor. Since Paul only used the terms pastors in EPH 4, he could have used the same term in 1 Tim 3, but he did not.

There is no interchange of terms here, Bishops/overseers/elders are not pastors. Ephesians 4 proves this. If Paul had meant Pastors in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1 he would have used the term, he was familiar with it. To say it means the same thing means Paul has no clue what he was writing

Titus is qualifications for elders and not pastors and should not be women.


Would anyone else please show us ANY version of the Bible that shows the actual word Pastor is used in 1 Tim 3 or Titus 1.