Women should not be allowed to preach in church

Johnny_B · May 23, 2017

The Scriptures are not talking about the Gospel being presented in evangelism. It's speaking of teaching men in authority and Romans 16:1 names a sister with the Greek word of teacher/servant, so women taught in the Church but at what capacity it doesn't say.

My daughter and I were checking out a church and on mothers day they had a women teaching and it was horrible, she tried to go gangster, like she used to be some fighting ghetto girl. Even my daughter thought it was dumb, she just did not have that in her. She gave it her best shot, but it was not natural.

Here's what I see women can teach, to what capacity? Not over men, why? Because Eve was deceived and the structure from the Lord is women are to be in subjection to there husband, not men. So women are not to have authority over men or their husband. I Corinthians 14 says if they want to learn, ask their husband at home, not in the Church service. Women are to be silent in the Church, when it comes to teaching over men. Can they prophecy? I would think so, but I'm not totally sure yet, I am doing some research on it.

Here's where I see the problem, is the Church is trying to comfort to the world, because of women lib. We do not need to conform to the world, we need to conform to the image of Christ. Please do not introduce, "there is neither male not female" here because the context of that is on salvation. Because in the Jewish system women are second class citizens, the synagogues had two stories with women in one a men in the other, they never sat together. I'm wondering they still used that system, so it would be very distracting if you had a wife yelling down or up to here husband, saying, hey babe what does that mean? Does this mean women should never talk at Church, I do not think so, unless she' yelling to her husband.

This is a really touchy subject.

Can women teach in the Church, yes they can, can they teach or have authority over men, no.

Socreta93 · May 23, 2017

This was one of the first questions I asked on this site when I came here two years ago and I practically offended some people. Thankfully some were nice enough to show me that this was out of context

followjesus · May 23, 2017

Titilope said:

1 timothy 2:12 :But "I" suffer not a woman to teach, nor to usurp authority over the man, but to be in silence. "

1 corinthians 7:12 "But to the rest" I say", not the Lord, that if any brother has a wife who is an unbeliever, and she consents to live with him, he must not divorce her."

2 corinthians 11:17 "That which" I speak", I speak it not after the Lord, but as it were foolishly, in this confidence of boasting."

Paul wasnt always speaking perfectly, He was imperfect by His own admissions, went on long boasting rants in His letters.... before his conversion He was a pharisee, complete submission of women based on the original deception being blamed on eve is showing through, Just like peters prejudice showed through when He withdrew Himself from the gentiles, even though He wasnt living as a jew, based on jewish prejudice.

Jesus actually commissioned mary magdalene to be the first one to speak to the apostles saying Jesus had risen from the dead. the prophets were who was to speak in the church

1 corinthians 14:29 "Let the prophets speak two or three, and let the other judge."

acts 2:17 "And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your SONS AND YOUR DAUGHTERS SHALL PROPHECY, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams...

remember that paul said " I do not permit a woman to teach" Ive always thought it was a bit of His prejudice showing through, again He admits He wasnt perfect, and that He was a strict pharisee prior to His conversion. there is also the example of priscilla and aquila, a husband and wife ministry team...

acts 18:26 "And he began to speak boldly in the synagogue: whom when Aquila and Priscilla had heard, THEY took him unto them, and expounded unto him the way of God more perfectly. "

both husband and wife accompanied paul to syria on one of His missions...

acts 18:18 "And Paul after this tarried there yet a good while, and then took his leave of the brethren, and sailed thence into Syria, and with him Priscilla and Aquila; having shorn his head in Cenchrea: for he had a vow."

I think honestly, God is more interested in the heart of a person, than what gender they are, man or woman if God fills them with His spirit of prophecy and understanding, they should NEVER keep silent because of paul saying " I do not permit a woman to teach" given the scriptures say this as well

1 corinthians 11:11-12 "Nevertheless neither is the man without the woman, neither the woman without the man, in the Lord. 12For as the woman is of the man, even so is the man also by the woman; but all things of God."

Galatians 3:28 "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is NEITHER MALE NOR FEMALE: for ye are all ONE in Christ Jesus."

Good word from God is acceptable whether it comes from male, female, black, white, brown, young, old, for God uses the lowly things to out do the proud

Rockrz · May 23, 2017

Yes we can cause they are...

They can work in helps ministry but God never authorized women to be pastors or otherwise be in five fold ministry.

Much of today's deception is coming thru women who lead ministries and many gullible men follow right along just like Adam did when Eve gave him to eat too...

Needless to say I won't be sitting under any of their ministry...

Of course it's not a problem for the babes to get on a board like this and express their opinion... everyone can do that.

If Paul's writings were not inspired of God, then those books need to be removed because God made a mistake (His first sin) by putting those in... I'm not a fan of that viewpoint but I know others are.

You know they have entire online communities devoted to the belief that Paul was not an Apostle and all his writings are lies and are to be ignored.

Kainos · May 23, 2017

This is quite simple you need to understand the context from the period in time it is written and why it was written. The early church was disorganized and one of the instruction given to maintain order was that the woman remain silent as to not cause more disorder by trying to jump in an already chaoctic situation. Paul actually says for the women to pray and prophecy in 1 corinthians 11. Also note he does not only tell the women to remain silent if you read in 1 Corinthians 14 he tells those who speak in tongues and prophecy to remain silent as well. This was in no way a permanent silence to anyone but a temporary one to help the early church organize their services with order. No where in the bible does it actually say women can not be preachers or anything of the sort. It is not going against the bible because it is not in the bible.

Angela53510 · May 23, 2017

If Eve was deceived, (yes she was!) at least she was not blatantly disobedient like Adam.

In fact, Eve was not even created when God gave Adam the command in the garden, not to eat of the Tree of Good and Evil.

"The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it. 16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden, 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for[e] him.” 19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed[f] every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name. 20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man." Gen. 2:14-22

Note, that God commanded the man in verse 17 to NOT to eat of the Tree, and Eve was not made until verse 22. There is your real order of creation. Man, totally responsible for communicating the command not to eat, and making sure that she understood how serious it was. But, not only did he not do his job, but he also went ahead and ate, in DIRECT disobedience to God's only command.

In fact, people love to blather on about this order of creation nonsense, but what does Paul actually say about sin entering the world?

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

So, how did sin come into the world? Through ONE MAN! And his name was Adam! Now, I will concede Paul uses anthropos rather than aner, but it is pretty obvious his is talking about ONE, enos anthropou ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου, and his name is Adam.

I just really annoys me how even women can say, "I believe the Bible" and yet they have never taken the time to read it, just listen to authoritarian complimentarian men twist Scriptures.

[FONT=Helvetica Neue, Verdana, Helvetica, Arial, sans-serif]No, Adam, the man is the cause of the entire Fall, and thank goodness for Jesus, or what a mess we would be in, because of the man.[/FONT]

However, in light of Adam being the cause of the Fall, I will have to say men are not stable enough nor obedient enough to God to be preachers. My conclusion is that women do a better job of running things, and especially when you look at all the heretical preachers there are out there that are men, from John MacArthur and John Piper, to Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen and Joseph Prince, they are all preaching something wrong, somewhere.

Therefore, women need to be the ones preaching, and in "authority." And if that sounds dumb, well then just read all the stupid comments in this thread written by both men and women who have no knowledge of what the Bible really says at all.

"sin came into the world through one man" Romans 5:12 and his name was ADAM!

I rest my case!

followjesus · May 23, 2017

If Eve was deceived, (yes she was!) at least she was not blatantly disobedient like Adam.

Genesis 3:6 "When the woman saw that the fruit of the tree was good for food and pleasing to the eye, and also desirable for gaining wisdom, she took some and ate it. She also gave some to her husband, WHO WAS WITH HER, and he ate it." ( NIV) kjv " Her husband with her"

Genesis 5:2 "Male and female created he them; and blessed them, and called THIER NAME ADAM , in the day when they were created."

Johnny_B · May 23, 2017

Angela53510 said:

If Eve was deceived, (yes she was!) at least she was not blatantly disobedient like Adam.

In fact, Eve was not even created when God gave Adam the command in the garden, not to eat of the Tree of Good and Evil.

"The Lord God took the man and put him in the garden of Eden to work it and keep it.16 And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, “You may surely eat of every tree of the garden,17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”18 Then the Lord God said, “It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him a helper fit for[e] him.”19 Now out of the ground the Lord God had formed[f] every beast of the field and every bird of the heavens and brought them to the man to see what he would call them. And whatever the man called every living creature, that was its name.20 The man gave names to all livestock and to the birds of the heavens and to every beast of the field. But for Adam there was not found a helper fit for him. 21 So the Lord God caused a deep sleep to fall upon the man, and while he slept took one of his ribs and closed up its place with flesh.22 And the rib that the Lord God had taken from the man he made into a woman and brought her to the man." Gen. 2:14-22

Note, that God commanded the man in verse 17 to NOT to eat of the Tree, and Eve was not made until verse 22. There is your real order of creation. Man, totally responsible for communicating the command not to eat, and making sure that she understood how serious it was. But, not only did he not do his job, but he also went ahead and ate, in DIRECT disobedience to God's only command.

In fact, people love to blather on about this order of creation nonsense, but what does Paul actually say about sin entering the world?

"Therefore, just as sin came into the world through one man, and death through sin, and so death spread to all men because all sinned— 13 for sin indeed was in the world before the law was given, but sin is not counted where there is no law.14 Yet death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over those whose sinning was not like the transgression of Adam, who was a type of the one who was to come." Romans 5:12-14

So, how did sin come into the world? Through ONE MAN! And his name was Adam! Now, I will concede Paul uses anthropos rather than aner, but it is pretty obvious his is talking about ONE, enos anthropou ἑνὸς ἀνθρώπου, and his name is Adam.

I just really annoys me how even women can say, "I believe the Bible" and yet they have never taken the time to read it, just listen to authoritarian complimentarian men twist Scriptures.

No, Adam, the man is the cause of the entire Fall, and thank goodness for Jesus, or what a mess we would be in, because of the man.

However, in light of Adam being the cause of the Fall, I will have to say men are not stable enough nor obedient enough to God to be preachers. My conclusion is that women do a better job of running things, and especially when you look at all the heretical preachers there are out there that are men, from John MacArthur and John Piper, to Benny Hinn, Joel Osteen and Joseph Prince, they are all preaching something wrong, somewhere.

Therefore, women need to be the ones preaching, and in "authority." And if that sounds dumb, well then just read all the stupid comments in this thread written by both men and women who have no knowledge of what the Bible really says at all.

"sin came into the world through one man" Romans 5:12 and his name was ADAM!

I rest my case!

I only quoted the Scripture, they are not my words, so slow your round. Your problem is not with my sister it's with the Scripture, like you told me once you have to go with the Scripture and if your doctrine does not line up you have to change, again, not my words.

Just because Adam was a lame, it doesn't change the verse, sorry.

Angela53510 · May 23, 2017

One more time, for those who cannot read:

" And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt 28:18

The word AUTHORITY is exousia. This means, Jesus has been given ALL authority. At no place, anywhere in the bible, NT or OT, does it say God gave man authority exousia over women.

The word, which appears ONCE in the Bible in 1 Tim. 2:12 is authentein in Greek. Not exousia. It does not mean authority and should be translated as "to domineer."

So:

αὐθεντεῖν - authentein. It is a present active infinitive. A verbal form. We translate it in English was "to domineer"

exercise authority. - this is the ESV version. It is two words, a verb and a noun. Neither word is "authority" as in the word exousia. As above, in Matt 28:18, where Jesus (not sinful men) was given all authority.

No, men do not have authority over women based on a bad translation, using two words where only one infinitive is required.

It seems obvious to me there are a lot of biblically ignorant people on this thread, parroting the lies they have been taught from a man in a pulpit. Shades of King James himself and the Divine Right of Kings. Why do Americans reject a king over them, yet accept that kind of authority which was wrongly translated to appease KJ?

Angela53510 · May 23, 2017

Johnny_B said:

Yes, the story is that no men should be preachers, because Adam was such a loser.

And KJV and his bunch of sycophants translated ONE WORD WRONG, and 400 years later, we have men saying they have been giving exousia, when no where in the Bible have they been given exousia.

In fact, this is a negative command to a single woman to not domineer -authentein Hard to believe something so wrong could have been passed on for so long, including on this site.

Please quote the Greek, and try to justify anything in 1 Tim. 2 based on the whole Bible, that says all men should be in authority over all women, and that no woman should be a preacher? Say what?? Where is that at all in that verse?? No where!

PS. Since you did not respond to my previous post, I can only assume that either you did not read it, or you could not answer it. Stop propagating myths. You know enough Greek by now, to not keep harping on this exegetically unsound doctrine.

Rockrz · May 23, 2017

No, the Lord (thru Paul) referenced the Garden of Eden and the fact that God created Adam first and then Eve.

So, this is God's order... it's His will.

I don't see anywhere in God's Word where it says women being pastors is the unpardonable sin... but that still does not mean I'll be sitting under their ministry simply because this is not how God set up His Kingdom.

That's real bright... one guy messes up and ALL men are bad.
Daddy issues perhaps?

Johnny_B · May 23, 2017

Angela53510 said:

One more time, for those who cannot read:

"And Jesus came and said to them, “All authority in heaven and on earth has been given to me." Matt 28:18

The word AUTHORITY is exousia. This means, Jesus has been given ALL authority. At no place, anywhere in the bible, NT or OT, does it say God gave man authority exousia over women.

The word, which appears ONCE in the Bible in 1 Tim. 2:12 is authentein in Greek. Not exousia. It does not mean authority and should be translated as "to domineer."

So:

αὐθεντεῖν - authentein. It is a present active infinitive. A verbal form. We translate it in English was "to domineer"

exercise authority. - this is the ESV version. It is two words, a verb and a noun. Neither word is "authority" as in the word exousia. As above, in Matt 28:18, where Jesus (not sinful men) was given all authority.

No, men do not have authority over women based on a bad translation, using two words where only one infinitive is required.

It seems obvious to me there are a lot of biblically ignorant people on this thread, parroting the lies they have been taught from a man in a pulpit. Shades of King James himself and the Divine Right of Kings. Why do Americans reject a king over them, yet accept that kind of authority which was wrongly translated to appease KJ?

This is really a touch one for you isn't it, maybe that why Paul said that by the Spirit, because women have times that their hormones are out of whack and they get moody, that could be another reason, cause you do have mood swings, sister. This is not the first time you've had a mood swing on my, the first time I did not say anything, but I have to this time.

Rockrz · May 23, 2017

This is really a touch one for you isn't it, maybe that why Paul said that by the Spirit, because women have times that their hormones are out of whack and they get moody, that could be another reason, cause you do have mood swings, sister. This is not the first time you've had a mood swing on my, the first time I did not say anything, but I have to this time.

This ought to be interesting...

Kainos · May 24, 2017

Rockrz said:

You can attend where ever you want that is fine and my comment is not to make someone do so. I am simply speaking truth and prefer that the bible is not being taken out of context to satisfy a mans ego. Not that i am saying you are and I am full aware of Gods structure in life but that structure is family oriented not ministry or general life.

Dino246 · May 24, 2017

Rockrz said:

Just as foolish as the idea that one woman was deceived and so all women shouldn't lead or teach.

Rockrz · May 24, 2017

Yeah... women deciding to rise up and band together to overcome men... where have we heard this before???

It's all part of satan's plot to deny God's order and to create division.

When we get over in to the next age and Jesus is King of this world... just like in His earthly ministry, He will not be appointing women to positions of leadership.

So, we'll have to revisit this discussion then...

One must twist scripture to come to that conclusion... but, we are in the end times so just as Jesus said there is plenty of deception going around.

MrStevish · May 24, 2017

Aunt Jemima and Harriet Tubman wouldn't agree with you...LOL

Rockrz · May 24, 2017

Women can and do have anointings to work in helps ministries... but some women have egos bigger than men and they want to go for the gusto

We'll see how Jesus handles this during the 1000 Year Reign and beyond... no need to argue about it here since nobody is going to change their minds on either side.

I used to attend a church led by ladies and turns out there were some serious doctrinal errors that started with them being in leadership over men... God never designed it to be that way, so the door was wide open for the devil to continually cause problems which is still going on to this day.

I learned about this by prayerfully consulting God's Word (over a couple of years) and I found He did not authorize women to pastor churches or be in spiritual authority over men.... His instructions to me was to not submit to or sit under a woman's ministry, and so I don't and won't.

Depleted · May 24, 2017

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/146121-women-pastors-help-me.html

SovereignGrace · May 24, 2017

preacher4truth said:

Hey, that's only a matter of opinion, a differing view, another interpretation.

Women should not be allowed to preach in church

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