God hating you before you're born?

[Johnny_B]

I think also some stop at scriptures where it says those GOD foreknew, HE predestined______________(and they stop, never completing the end of it) "to be confirmed to the image of HIS DON"

its the same with work out your own salvation with fear and trembling _______________(they stop there and never really complete the full of what is really said and meant) "for it is GOD who worketh in you to will and to do HIS good pleasure"

if we are GOD's workmanship created in CHRIST JESUS unto good works _______(again the last part is left off) "which HE prepared in advance that we should walk in"

Then the ONE who began this work in us will bring it to completion

And even in that day we won't be exalting our flesh

You know more about the context of Scripture then most. I know pastors that still misquote Scripture by not completing them, like john 3:16, they never read 16-21 “For God so loved the world,[i] For this is how God loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Notice the [i] after world, it's a footnote, that reads, "Or For this is how God loved the world, I inserted it.

NASB Lexicon
[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]NASB ©[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 10%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Definition[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]"For God[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]theos[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]God, a god[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]so[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]outōs[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]in this way, thus[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]adverb from houtos,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to love[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]order, the world[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that He gave[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to give (in various senses lit. or fig.)[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]redupl. from the root do-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]His only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from monos and genos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]uion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]a son[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that whoever[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]all, every[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]believes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to believe, entrust[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from pistis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]in Him shall not perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to destroy, destroy utterly[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from apo and same as olethros[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]but have[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to have, hold[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]agelong, eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from aión[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]life.[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from zaó[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[miknik5]

Actually, I don't start nor stop there. I start with Romans 1, that tells who all people are. Go on from there to find out how the lawkeepers couldn't pull off salvation, nor the Jews, nor the Gentiles, and why, and then who God is and then what he has done and then what we should do about what he as done. Poof. The whole book of Romans, not one teensy little verse that could possibly -- if you squeeze your eyes just right -- say what you want it to say.

yes that would be the right way to understand the WORD of TRUTH

I am glad to hear that you yourself wouldn't "squeeze your eyes just right to say what you want to say"

Since speaking to those who dont fully understsnd is much more important than "squeezing our eyes just right to say what WE want to say"

 

[PeterJens]

What a wonder God is.

I look back at history and my life and see how He has worked through things to His glory.
No matter how much I feel I am choosing, He is working things through to bring about
His purposes. What we call our choice, is also Gods choice through us.

I know I am incapable of understanding determinism and free will, because probably nothing
is determined and everything is a choice yet all the important issues are determined according
to the Lords will. So there is this eternal dilemma, perspective. A sinner has no real choices,
because they will die. A saint is redeemed so has a real choice, but their hearts declare the
Lord, so again the choice is one ofcourse life.

So I wonder if the problem is the trauma of being wrong or the doubt of disbelief. You have
to be certain or you are evil, when actually being certain is probably the trap one is hoping
to avoid. The need for certainty defines a real sense of insecurity, and it is this insecurity
that should be addressed. Christ and the cross should be enough, where is the doubt.

Who but the King would come to die for us, or even create such a paradox, that eternally
makes sense but is insane in the mortal world, unless this is the eternal Father speaking to man.

So many claim faith, yet diving into the mysteries of God is just too risky incase they find it is
not true. I remember this dilemma, but now I say, halleluyah to Christ,

"I am the way, the truth and the life, no man comes to the Father but by me"
John 14:6

Do you believe this? Are you prepared to stake everything you have on this reality?
Or is testing of your faith not something you approve of incase it fails?

 

[miknik5]

John 6
28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”


Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.


God draws all men. Humans are forced to feel the very real God within a humans soul drawing them to God. consciously or unconsciously.

If all men are drawn to God then once they have heard the Gospel, they learn of who this presence is and what God did to save mankind.

The only thing God calls us to do is believe ( have faith) john 6:29 for it is Gods will that everyone who believes in Jesus shall inherit eternal life john 6:40.


Romans 10:17King James Version (KJV)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Obviously we know that just hearing the Word of God doesnt force anyone to have faith. Or else everyone who heard the Word would believe.

This forceful dragging of God to himself is to give everyone the chance to be saved by hearing the Word. By hearing of Jesus. Everyone who hears is left to a choice. This is how Gods will for everyone reaches everyone.

Have faith or remain in rebellion to the truth that God dragged you to. So either God is lying in verse 40 giving everyone a chance to be saved or God only draws his pre elected in verse 44?

Out of context some will say only Gods elect are drawn.

But obviously all men are drawn to the point of without excuse to one day have to choose to have faith in Christ or remain in rebellion.

It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Prophets told everyone will be taught by God, dragged to truth. And the Father teachs of Jesus. Most all will eventually come faced with Jesus by Gods doing. (excluding the mental disabled or infants) But the choice of faith is still held responsible to the all who are drawn to truth.

I agree
But I also agree that I don't have the right to say "who will ascend or who will descend"

 

[miknik5]

You know more about the context of Scripture then most. I know pastors that still misquote Scripture by not completing them, like john 3:16, they never read 16-21 “For God so loved the world,[i] For this is how God loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.17For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but in order that the world might be saved through him.18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only Son of God.19 And this is the judgment: the light has come into the world, and people loved the darkness rather than the light because their works were evil.20 For everyone who does wicked things hates the light and does not come to the light, lest his works should be exposed.21 But whoever does what is true comes to the light, so that it may be clearly seen that his works have been carried out in God.”

Notice the [i] after world, it's a footnote, that reads, "Or For this is how God loved the world, I inserted it.

NASB Lexicon
[TABLE="class: maintext, width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]NASB ©[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Greek[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Transliteration[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 10%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Strong's[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Definition[/TD]
[TD="class: top, width: 18%, bgcolor: #0099FF"]Origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]"For God[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]θεὸς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]theos[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2316[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]God, a god[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]so[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]οὕτως[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]outōs[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3779[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]in this way, thus[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]adverb from houtos,[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]loved[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἠγάπησεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]ēgapēsen[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]25[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to love[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]of uncertain origin[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]the world,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]κόσμον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]kosmon[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2889[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]order, the world[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that He gave[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔδωκεν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]edōken[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]1325[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to give (in various senses lit. or fig.)[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]redupl. from the root do-[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]His only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]μονογενῆ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]monogenē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3439[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]only begotten[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from monos and genos[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]Son,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]υἱὸν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]uion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]5207[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]a son[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]that whoever[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πᾶς[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pas[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]3956[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]all, every[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. word[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]believes[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]πιστεύων[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]pisteuōn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]4100[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to believe, entrust[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from pistis[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]in Him shall not perish,[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἀπόληται[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]apolētai[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]622[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to destroy, destroy utterly[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from apo and same as olethros[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]but have[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ἔχῃ[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]echē[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2192[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]to have, hold[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]a prim. verb[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]αἰώνιον[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]aiōnion[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]166[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]agelong, eternal[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from aión[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD="class: eng"]life.[/TD]
[TD="class: greek2"]ζωὴν[/TD]
[TD="class: translit"]zōēn[/TD]
[TD="class: strongsnt"]2222[/TD]
[TD="class: eng2"]life[/TD]
[TD="class: eng3"]from zaó[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

I know

john 3:16 to 18 1/2 - THE PROMISE
john 3:18 1/2 to 20 - THE CONDEMNATION

and innTEURH the verdict already (and the judgement) is that HE(THE LIGHT) came into the world

 

[miknik5]

Because HE came into the world. And as scripture says, if I had not come and done amongst them what no other has, they would have no sin.

But HE did

and that is the verdict


John 15:22-25 says more about it

 

[peacefulbeliever]

So, God doesn't hate the individual person named Esau, He instead hates the entire nation of people, the Edomites instead?

And, let's continue to apply your methodology up above to Jacob as well and be consistent - God doesn't actually love the individual Jacob, He only loves the nation, yet many in that nation are going to hell in a hand basket because they are not saved, are spiritually lost, and to top that off have rejected their Messiah.

So, we have God loving an entire nation and hating an entire nation. Can't see how the latter is more comforting to those who have disdain for God's electing grace to hate and love whom He so desires when it ends up with God hating a multitude of persons "before he did anything good or bad." Wait, never mind, that phrase refers to an individual named Esau, can't be having that. He hated an entire nation of people before "they" did any good or bad. Got it.

Genesis 25:13 clearly states how God is relating the two unborn children in Rebecca's womb - two nations. Now these are the generations of Esau, who is Edom. (Gen. 36:1) And these are the generations of Esau the father of the Edomites . . . (Gen. 36:9)

God is love. If God is love and does not change - How can He be contrary to who He is?

The word hate does not always mean extreme hostility or intense dislike as it does today but often means "to love less".
If any man come to me, and hate not his father, and mother, and wife, and children, and brethren, and sisters (Luke 14:26) . . . Are we to hate our parents or are we to honor our parents? Should one hate his wife or love her as Christ loved the church? We are to love our parents, our wives (husbands), children, brethren, sisters LESS than we love Christ.

No man can serve two masters: for either he will hate the one, and love the other; or else he will hold to the one, and despise the other. You cannot serve God and mammon. i.e. - No man can serve two masters; he will either love one less than the other and love the other more . . . we are to love God more than the riches of the world. (wealth). God loved Esau LESS than he loved Jacob - Could it have something to do with the Christ line? The nation that God chose to bear the Messiah and that is why he loved Jacob more and Esau less?

All I know for a certainty is: Esau = Edom; Jacob = Israel . . . . God wants all men to be saved so therefore calls all men. Is there a response required? Can one resist? Or are they forced?

 

[buddyt]

God said Let us make man in our image Genesis 1:26 Who is He talking about. Why are we in these flesh body's. The teachings of man would have you believe the Earth was created 6,000 years ago and that man was created at that time. It doesn't matter what verses you quote. That's what they were tough
and so that makes it correct. What does God mean in Genesis 1:28 when he says REPLENISH the Earth. Jeremiah 1:5 I knew you before I formed you in your mother's womb. What doe's that verse mean. There are other verses in the word of God. But like I said people were tough different so that makes it so.
The truth of it all is we were created long ago Satan rebelled and wanted to be worshiped. 1/3rd of us took his side this is the 1/3rd written of in the book of Revelation. We are here as a test without the fiscal presents of Father. He wants to know do you Love Him or Satan. At the end of this Earth age when Jesus returns we will all be returned to the Spirit body we were first created in.1[SUP]st[/SUP] Corinthians 15:52. Esau must have been disappointing to God in that first Earth age.

 

[miknik5]

John 6
28Then they asked him, “What must we do to do the works God requires?”

29Jesus answered, “The work of God is this: to believe in the one he has sent.”

40For my Father’s will is that everyone who looks to the Son and believes in him shall have eternal life, and I will raise them up at the last day.”


Stop grumbling among yourselves,” Jesus answered. 44“No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws them, and I will raise them up at the last day. 45It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.


God draws all men. Humans are forced to feel the very real God within a humans soul drawing them to God. consciously or unconsciously.

If all men are drawn to God then once they have heard the Gospel, they learn of who this presence is and what God did to save mankind.

The only thing God calls us to do is believe ( have faith) john 6:29 for it is Gods will that everyone who believes in Jesus shall inherit eternal life john 6:40.


Romans 10:17King James Version (KJV)

17 So then faith cometh by hearing, and hearing by the word of God.

Obviously we know that just hearing the Word of God doesnt force anyone to have faith. Or else everyone who heard the Word would believe.

This forceful dragging of God to himself is to give everyone the chance to be saved by hearing the Word. By hearing of Jesus. Everyone who hears is left to a choice. This is how Gods will for everyone reaches everyone.

Have faith or remain in rebellion to the truth that God dragged you to. So either God is lying in verse 40 giving everyone a chance to be saved or God only draws his pre elected in verse 44?

Out of context some will say only Gods elect are drawn.

But obviously all men are drawn to the point of without excuse to one day have to choose to have faith in Christ or remain in rebellion.

It is written in the Prophets: ‘They will all be taught by God. Everyone who has heard the Father and learned from him comes to me.

Prophets told everyone will be taught by God, dragged to truth. And the Father teachs of Jesus. Most all will eventually come faced with Jesus by Gods doing. (excluding the mental disabled or infants) But the choice of faith is still held responsible to the all who are drawn to truth.

Are you saying that eventually all will believe?

can a person give themselves a New heart and a New Spirit?

 

[Roughsoul1991]

Grace thanks for the rep I'm glad we have a common ground lol

 

[Roughsoul1991]

The scriptures you posted don't support your view. You have imposed it on the text. The Father's will is that everyone who looks to the Son. Just because it says everyone, it doesn't mean everyone. It clearly states who everyone is. If it's the work of God for everyone to believe, then God must suck at his job. You have quoted a Calvinist proof text. Dunno how you get what you get out of it without twisting it.



Faith is a gift of God, not something mustered by man. Again, quoting a Calvinist proof text.




Contrast with:

Ephesians 2English Standard Version (ESV)


By Grace Through Faith
2 And you were dead in the trespasses and sins 2 in which you once walked, following the course of this world, following the prince of the power of the air, the spirit that is now at work in the sons of disobedience— 3 among whom we all once lived in the passions of our flesh, carrying out the desires of the body and the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, like the rest of mankind. 4 But God, being rich in mercy, because of the great love with which he loved us, 5 even when we were dead in our trespasses, made us alive together with Christ—by grace you have been saved— 6 and raised us up with him and seated us with him in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, 7 so that in the coming ages he might show the immeasurable riches of his grace in kindness toward us in Christ Jesus. 8 For by grace you have been saved through faith. And this is not your own doing; it is the gift of God, 9 not a result of works, so that no one may boast. 10 For we are his workmanship, created in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand, that we should walk in them.



You are the one forsaking context.



If this were true all men would be saved because Jesus said all that are drawn are justified and all that are justified are glorified, and all that are drawn he will raise up on the last day. So either a. God has failed in his promise or b. you are just wrong.



Then, again, God must have failed in his promise.

Again, quoting a Calvinist proof text.

Ill save you some time and go ahead and say I disagree with the whole calvinism tulip concept.

Total Depravity (also known as Total Inability and Original Sin)
Unconditional Election
Limited Atonement (also known as Particular Atonement)
Irresistible Grace
Perseverance of the Saints (also known as Once Saved Always Saved)


I can see you believe in all 5 and I do not. Some believe only the last 2 or last 3. But I see the whole concept being dependent on total depravity through Perseverance of the saints. It's confusing to see how some believe OSAS but don't believe the first 4 since that's what OSAS builds upon.

 

[miknik5]

Can someone please explain this Calvinistic approach to THE GOSPEL?

Do these believers preach THE GOSPEL?
im also (mis) understanding from some posts that some are implying all will eventually believe?

not sure, but I am confused in the different understandings of why THE GOSPEL has come and why it is preached to all men (the "esaus" included)

If the GOSPEL is preached and we were called to preach THE GOSPEL (weren't we?) than not all believe and not everyone will believe

 

[miknik5]

But we were still told to "go"

 

[miknik5]

Please excuse me if I have misunderstood but it appears to me that those who hold to a Calvinistic approach don't preach the GOSPEL,
Or, if they do and the person doesn't hear THE GOSPEL and receive it as it should be heard and received, write that person off as lost and with no hope of salvation?

Again, this is what I am hearing from these back and forth exchanges

i hope I am wrong in my understanding
I hope I have misunderstood

 

[ForthAngel]

Please excuse me if I have misunderstood but it appears to me that those who hold to a Calvinistic approach don't preach the GOSPEL,
Or, if they do and the person doesn't hear THE GOSPEL and receive it as it should be heard and received, write that person off as lost and with no hope of salvation?

Again, this is what I am hearing from these back and forth exchanges

i hope I am wrong in my understanding
I hope I have misunderstood

These are all lies propagated by people who don't take the time to understand the Calvinist view. Of course we preach the Gospel. Calvinism brings the focus back to the Gospel and Christ instead of elevating man. We use the whole bible instead of a verse here and there that back up our presuppositions.

 

[Willie-T]

Please excuse me if I have misunderstood but it appears to me that those who hold to a Calvinistic approach don't preach the GOSPEL,
Or, if they do and the person doesn't hear THE GOSPEL and receive it as it should be heard and received, write that person off as lost and with no hope of salvation?

Again, this is what I am hearing from these back and forth exchanges

i hope I am wrong in my understanding
I hope I have misunderstood

Yes, I think they may often use their belief in being the chosen ones (much as the Pharisees thought of themselves when compared with Gentiles) to rationalize not having to do too much of the "Go unto all nations" stuff. They seem to claim they preach to everyone, but their words say it doesn't matter too much because the ones destined to burn won't listen anyway.

 

[ForthAngel]

Yes, I think they may often use their belief in being the chosen ones (much as the Pharisees thought of themselves when compared with Gentiles) to rationalize not having to do too much of the "Go unto all nations." They seem to say they preach to everyone, but their words say it doesn't matter too much, and the ones destined to burn won't listen anyway.

And more lies from the humble all knowing Willie.

 

[miknik5]

These are all lies propagated by people who don't take the time to understand the Calvinist view. Of course we preach the Gospel. Calvinism brings the focus back to the Gospel and Christ instead of elevating man. We use the whole bible instead of a verse here and there that back up our presuppositions.

But I saw your post to roughsoul and you were upset with him and I thought he was the one who was "taking a Calvinistic approach"

and am I assuming that this approach says that GOD will save those whom
HE will save and nothing I do will change that (I agree with that)

what i I don't agree with is the idea that one wipes their hands clean and goes off about their business with a bit of a hardened heart, thinking there is no hope for that oerson


when, while it is still today, there is
even if a person did not hear and believe by our preaching, who is to say that down the road the seed might come forth, or that another "preacher" will water what you sowed (or that what another sowed you might water) so that the person eventually comes to faith in JESUS CHRIST as SAVIOR and LORD

While it is still today, this is the reason why we don't uproot anything before the time and why we pray for the souls of all men that possibly they GOD may lead them to repentence and the knowledge of THE SON of GOD

 

[miknik5]

This particular thread below has generated "similar threads"

one totled "hating calvinists"

i havent looked into that thread nor do I desire to
But there seems to be some sort of understanding or misunderstanding of this type of believer and I am trying to understand why

 

[ForthAngel]

But I saw your post to roughsoul and you were upset with him and I thought he was the one who was "taking a Calvinistic approach"

and am I assuming that this approach says that GOD will save those whom
HE will save and nothing I do will change that (I agree with that)

what i I don't agree with is the idea that one wipes their hands clean and goes off about their business with a bit of a hardened heart, thinking there is no hope for that oerson


when, while it is still today, there is
even if a person did not hear and believe by our preaching, who is to say that down the road the seed might come forth, or that another "preacher" will water what you sowed (or that what another sowed you might water) so that the person eventually comes to faith in JESUS CHRIST as SAVIOR and LORD

While it is still today, this is the reason why we don't uproot anything before the time and why we pray for the souls of all men that possibly they may. W led to repentence and the knowledge of THE SON of GOD

I wasn't upset with him. I was simply pointing out that he was misusing the verses and how ironic it was that he would use a Calvinist proof text to support his view of free-will.

From what I've seen of some of your posts, you are actually more Calvinist than Arminian in your belief. Like you said here, "HE will save and nothing I do will change that", is a Calvinist belief. We don't know the mind of God though. We don't teach to just go away and give up. Again, these are lies from the opposition who won't take the time to properly look at our view, or worse, deliberately lie about it.