Not By Works

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BillG said:
correct me if I am wrong. I see you talk a lot of times about healing in us, hurts dealt with and love.

A lot of you say concerning this I do actually give credence to.

But I do have to say that I do disagree with your quote

Imputed righteousness misses the point of love, how sin is washed away, how
barriers are broken, how hurts that drove us before and no longer there
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Imputed righteousness has nothing to do with missing the point of love, barriers broken, hurts an pain healed.

Imputed righteousness was given as a result of our sins being washed away and when believed and prayed

Romans 10:9-11
that if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus and believe in your heart that God has raised Him from the dead, you will be saved. For with the heart one believes unto righteousness, and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the Scripture says, “Whoever believes on Him will not be put to shame.”

So to me God working in us to heal us from anything that hurts us, hurts others things that affect our walk with him and others has nothing to do with righteousness.

Its a loving Father who works in us to conform us to the image of Christ.

With regard to righteousness

Philippians 3:9
and be found in Him, not having my own righteousness, which is from the law, but that which is through faith in Christ, the righteousness which is from God by faith;
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Amen. What I have learnt is how we describe different theological constructs matters less
than walking with the Lord in the Spirit and letting his reality flow from us.

It is also why I wonder how anyone thinks anything linked to Christ is a problem. The problem
is always us not grasping the truth in His words.

Jesus said "Instead, I have called you friends, for everything that I learned from my Father I have made known to you."
John 15:15

This is stunning. There are not bigger revelations we need but the true meaning
and context of what Jesus said. Often a word is so stunning because in our view
its just impossible so we dismiss it without a second thought. The words Jesus spoke
of such authority He gave to us are stunning, yet we feel we barely understand His heart
and His intent. If we know the things that bind us, and the things that free us, things
become much clearer.
 
FranC said:
Yeah. Shoa.
But I don't live in East Texas!!!!

Are you gonna spill the beans or not???
(no pun intended ---- LOL)
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It was the first thing that came to mind when I read "washing up", it means getting really, really angry lol.
 
PeterJens said:
You raise an interesting point. Sin, is sin sin if the person is allowed to do something
but someone then removes this privilege. Or a child goes into a fridge and explores.
You could call this stealing except they have no perception of boundaries or ownership
etc.

And no I do not accept a person is guilty of original sin, because they did not commit it.
I think we inherit the consequences of Adams sin, which is separation from God, which
leads to rebellion or actual acts of sin, but is a passive state of sin.
Again morality often comes down to ownership or rights. If I own everything I see, I can
do with it what I will. If I do not own it, I am restricted by the permissions given to me.

Or take a different view, how can the children of believers be regarded as Holy?
At what point does faith and responsibility really kick in?
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Hi Peter,

Maybe your views explain why you like think you have your 'own righteousness'. Your views are very similar to the Pelagian controversy of the early church... and I think you know that was condemned as heresy.

Maybe you can tell us what you mean by 'passive state of sin' sin is not passive! or do you mean we are born (nature) capable of morally doing good or evil?
 
Susanna said:
It was the first thing that came to mind when I read "washing up", it means getting really, really angry lol.
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Hi Susanna
Thanks.

I truly doubt BillG meant it that way.
He's a blessing and he knows it.

Wonder how many other expressions I don't know!
 
phil36 said:
Hi Peter,

Maybe your views explain why you like think you have your 'own righteousness'. Your views are very similar to the Pelagian controversy of the early church... and I think you know that was condemned as heresy.

Maybe you can tell us what you mean by 'passive state of sin' sin is not passive! or do you mean we are born (nature) capable of morally doing good or evil?
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I would suggest God is saying without fellowship with Him, communion, we will always
sin and die. If you ever go into morality you come down to perspectives. Morality only
works when the law maker stays pure and clean. As soon as justification of sinful acts
comes in the whole system starts to collapse. It is why a small sin, is always about
rebellion against the source of morality, which means the whole is invalidated by the one
small act.

So without a relationship and fellowship with God we will always sin, and the rejection
or rebellion against God is sin in itself.

Jesus shows this in John 15, because He did acts no one else was doing showing clearly
His authority, those who saw it and rejected Him are guilty.

If I had not done among them the works no one else did, they would not be guilty of sin. As it is, they have seen, and yet they have hated both me and my Father.
John 15:24

And the term "own righteousness" is wrong. Our behaviour is governed by the love Jesus
has brought into our hearts. It is this that brings about righteousness, not ourselves.

And we are counted as righteous because we have faith in Christ, not because of our
behaviour. This does not mean our behaviour is not righteous, it is not the essential foundation
of who we are, but its fruit. The mistake is to believe we are anything outside the vine, when
the vine and fellowship make us what we are. We do not have to justify ourselves when we
are clean and purified, made holy and walking in the Spirit. It is sin that causes condemnation,
not a righteous walk.
 
We are born with a link to God, we are the objects of His creation.
To deny 100% our link to God would be not existing.
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We are born again objects of His new creation. To attribute any work to our own flesh is not a doctrine of God.

The link is as soon as people are born they are born separated from God.. dead in their trespasses and sins without a living hope that comes from a living God .Sinners go forth telling lies. If some are not given the work of Christ’s faith by which we can hear and therefore believe God as He works in us to both will and do His good pleasure . Will their work of unbelief make the "faith of God" without effect, the imputed work revealed?.

For what if some did not believe? shall their unbelief make the faith(work) of God without effect?God forbid: yea, let God be true, but every man a liar; as it is written, That thou mightest be justified in thy sayings, and mightest overcome when thou art judged. Rom 3:3


I think they would be doing despite to His merited grace that he freely favors us with. Can’t serve two masters grace or work they are in opposition

Romans 11:6 And if by grace, then is it no more of works: otherwise grace is no more grace. But if it be of works, then it is no more grace: otherwise work is no more work.


Heb 10:28 He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
Heb 10:29 Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?
 
AngelFrog said:
Faith without works is dead.
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Nice quote lacking context, the verbiage before and after.......

"Women will be saved in childbearing" <---without context, verb tense and verbiage we can make the bible say anything......as proven by your James quote without context

No matter how many times the "cake takers" and "worker for" take James out of context to push a vanilla flavored false gospel of blended faith and works for salvation it will never be true nor open the "proverbial gates" for anyone.

PAUL-->Romans-->a man justified by faith void of works before GOD
James-->James-->A man's invisible faith that saves and justifies before GOD void of works is seen by MEN based upon the fruit or works we bear.

The works are the result of the faith and salvation we already possess and it is JESUS doing the works thru us as a living sacrifice.

Works do not and will not save anyone......ever

Faith plus works for salvation<--False gospel, no power to save and double cursed....Galatians 1 and 3
 
if you leave your door unlocked your whole life... when someone calls you and says tonight if your door is unlocked i will come in, kill you and all your loved ones and steal all you own


if you believe them you lock your door... you dont say oh i believe you and keep doing as you were before they told you what their plans are
 
maybe thats a stretch... but i know faith in Jesus saves, its just people use that and decieve themselfs never getting a new heart or truely get saved... they have no fruit they dont attempt to repent or love God.... they just use the idea of Only believing is a get outta hell free card while never obeying or accepting the change that we are offered through faith
 
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