Not By Works

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willybob said:
Proverbs 28:18
Whoso walketh uprightly (righteously) shall be saved: but he that is perverse (sinner) in his ways shall fall at once.
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Hi,

Are you trying to add the words of God or just trying to interpret? What do you mean by

1. uprightly (righteously)
2. perverse (sinner)
3. shall be saved: from what?
4."shall fall at once " from what?

Does the verse is saying something like of eternal life? eternal damnation?

I know proverbs mainly wisdom, a practical know how but can you shed more light on the verse you brought out?

Thanks,


 
dcontroversal said:
ANOTHER STANZA from a song by the "workers for" and "cake takers"

On that bright and cloudy morning when the dead in Christ shall rise
The workers for missing out will weep, wail, and cry
They missed the boat and failed the test because in their works they plied
Now in eternity they gnash their teeth for in their works they tried

yeah I know ;)

GALATIANS 1 and 3<---faith plus works = a false gospel with no power to save and double cursed
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Another favorite baptist hymn:


  1. Come, ye sinners, lost and hopeless,
    Jesus’ blood can make you free;
    For He saved the worst among you,
    When He saved a wretch like me.
    • Refrain:
      And I know, yes, I know
      Jesus’ blood can make the vilest sinner clean,
      And I know, yes, I know
      Jesus’ blood can make the vilest sinner clean.
 
dcontroversal said:
Obviously.......people end up in hell because they reject Jesus...he is the propitiation for the sins of the WHOLE WORLD.......

He that BELIEVES on the SON is having everlasting life!
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So these are nice full short statements.
But what does it mean to accept Jesus and what does it mean to reject Jesus?
And what if you have never heard of Jesus or only just a name?

People are doomed to hell because of sin. Sin are acts that are the final fruit of
rebellion against God, done in ignorance and darkness, not knowing why one stumbles
and falls, but still in the dark.

Another way of expressing this, all live comes from the Father so as we rebel and destroy
the remnants of our link with Him we die, a slow poison running through our veins.

And many claim to know Christ, even call him Lord, yet they know he is neither Lord nor
Saviour in their lives, he is barely a name they carry, except when being religious, just
enough to keep up the balance books of good against evil deeds.

Or maybe they are much more sophisticated, taking it all so so so seriously, keeping rules
while denying the love and hurts within, destroying those around them, yet claiming they
are so gifted and holy, yet blind to the very effect they are having. We can so easily be
that which we hope not to be.
 
PeterJens--Another way of expressing this, all live comes from the Father so as we rebel and destroythe remnants of our link with Him we die, a slow poison running through our veins.
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Hi Peter,

Could you show us this in scripture..the underlined part!
 
just quickly wanted to clarify that the phrase is actually SELF RIGHTEOUSNESS is as filthy rags not Righteousness, BIG difference!!!!!
 
phil36 said:
Hi Peter,
Could you show us this in scripture..the underlined part!
Click to expand...

so as we rebel and destroy the remnants of our link with Him we die, a slow poison running through our veins.

Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble.
1 John 2:10

Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
John 15:4


those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Isaiah 40:31


The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.
Proverbs 10:16


Keep me safe from the traps set by evildoers, from the snares they have laid for me.
Let the wicked fall into their own nets, while I pass by in safety.
Psalm 141:9-10


If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6


They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2 Thess 2:10


Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.
Their wine is the venom of serpents, the deadly poison of cobras.
Deut 32:32-33

Life comes from walking with God, death comes from sin.
 
This thread seems to be a work, working at not giving in until someone surrenders. Sometimes better just throwing in the towel. Not admitting defeat in doing so, but God is waiting for us to tap out so He can jump in and finish job.
 
TimeTravler said:
What is the work of the children of the Father?
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It is the work of God’s faith working in us not seen by which we can believe God to the salvation of our souls. The faith of Christ according to the work of Christ is not of us. It is given as a free gift.

His perfect law as it is written converts our soul as a testimony of God making us simply ones wise unto salvation. Again it is the work of God that we can believe Him who has no form and not of our own selves.


Christ is of one mind and always does whatsoever His soul pleases. He performs that which is appoints to us. Only God can make our heart soft enough to receive the incorruptible seed of His word. He gives the increase by making it grow, we must continue to decrease all the days of our lives.
 
PeterJens said:
so as we rebel and destroy the remnants of our link with Him we die, a slow poison running through our veins.

Anyone who loves their brother and sister lives in the light, and there is nothing in them to make them stumble.
1 John 2:10

Remain in me, as I also remain in you. No branch can bear fruit by itself; it must remain in the vine. Neither can you bear fruit unless you remain in me.
John 15:4


those who hope in the Lord will renew their strength. They will soar on wings like eagles; they will run and not grow weary, they will walk and not be faint.
Isaiah 40:31


The wages of the righteous is life, but the earnings of the wicked are sin and death.
Proverbs 10:16


Keep me safe from the traps set by evildoers, from the snares they have laid for me.
Let the wicked fall into their own nets, while I pass by in safety.
Psalm 141:9-10


If you do not remain in me, you are like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.
John 15:6


They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.
2 Thess 2:10


Their vine comes from the vine of Sodom and from the fields of Gomorrah.
Their grapes are filled with poison, and their clusters with bitterness.
Their wine is the venom of serpents, the deadly poison of cobras.
Deut 32:32-33


Life comes from walking with God, death comes from sin.
Click to expand...


Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. The question still remains. What do you mean? I understand the believer's position. I understand the believers' position in Christ, abiding in the vine.

So who are you saying are in rebellion, and what do you mean that those in rebellion have a 'link' to God? Here's what you said:

PeterJens--Another way of expressing this, all live comes from the Father so as we rebel and destroy the remnants of our link with Him we die, a slow poison running through our veins.
Click to expand...


It sounds like you are saying that we are born innocent? What is the 'remnant link' from the time God gives life? Secondly, what life are you referring to.. the old man or new? Your phrase above obscures this as does the above first answer?
 
phil36 said:
Hi Peter,

Thanks for your reply. The question still remains. What do you mean? I understand the believer's position. I understand the believers' position in Christ, abiding in the vine.

So who are you saying are in rebellion, and what do you mean that those in rebellion have a 'link' to God? Here's what you said:




It sounds like you are saying that we are born innocent? What is the 'remnant link' from the time God gives life? Secondly, what life are you referring to.. the old man or new? Your phrase above obscures this as does the above first answer?
Click to expand...

We are born with a link to God, we are the objects of His creation.
To deny 100% our link to God would be not existing.

What we have in life, sin destroys and ebbs away. I have seen people
like shells, with all the strengths they had as kids, now ebbed and gone.
Sin has this corrosive effect. It corrupts people, stamps them with inner
conflicts that can only be resolved through repentance confession and walking
with Christ.
 
PeterJens said:
We are born with a link to God, we are the objects of His creation.
To deny 100% our link to God would be not existing.

What we have in life, sin destroys and ebbs away. I have seen people
like shells, with all the strengths they had as kids, now ebbed and gone.
Sin has this corrosive effect. It corrupts people, stamps them with inner
conflicts that can only be resolved through repentance confession and walking
with Christ.
Click to expand...

As I said we all have been granted life by God and He sustains all life.

Could you clarify this point that you have just stated?

What we have in life, sin destroys and ebbs away.
Click to expand...

What do we have in life especially at the beginning of life, in regards to our link with God..Are we made innocent? and grow into sinfulness? I find your posts obscure, rather than clarifying.
 
phil36 said:
As I said we all have been granted life by God and He sustains all life.
Could you clarify this point that you have just stated?
What do we have in life especially at the beginning of life, in regards to our link with God..Are we made innocent? and grow into sinfulness? I find your posts obscure, rather than clarifying.
Click to expand...

We are born out of communion with God, separate and in rebellion.
Can sin be actually called sin before the age of responsibility?
Certainly we have a position of being alone, without communion, so therefore
if faced with God we will reject Him, like we would reject anybody except our
mothers, probably.

So innocence I am not sure is actually a position one is ever in.
 
PeterJens said:
We are born out of communion with God, separate and in rebellion.
Can sin be actually called sin before the age of responsibility?
Certainly we have a position of being alone, without communion, so therefore
if faced with God we will reject Him, like we would reject anybody except our
mothers, probably.

So innocence I am not sure is actually a position one is ever in.
Click to expand...

Thanks for clarifying Peter. I am not sure what you mean by we are 'born out of communion' with God, but maybe you can if you wish explain that?

And yes we can call sin, sin.. it doesn't matter the age. Sin is, funnily enough, sin! I am taking a guess here that you mean that someone's ''Actual sin' won't be held against them if they have not the faculties to understand, as in a baby or even someone who has a disability? That's my guess by what you mean? This is different from original sin, I'm assuming you would agree with this as you say no one is ever in a position of innocence (although you're not sure of this).

Anyhow thanks for answering.
 
phil36 said:
Thanks for clarifying Peter. I am not sure what you mean by we are 'born out of communion' with God, but maybe you can if you wish explain that?

And yes we can call sin, sin.. it doesn't matter the age. Sin is, funnily enough, sin! I am taking a guess here that you mean that someone's ''Actual sin' won't be held against them if they have not the faculties to understand, as in a baby or even someone who has a disability? That's my guess by what you mean? This is different from original sin, I'm assuming you would agree with this as you say no one is ever in a position of innocence (although you're not sure of this).

Anyhow thanks for answering.
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You raise an interesting point. Sin, is sin sin if the person is allowed to do something
but someone then removes this privilege. Or a child goes into a fridge and explores.
You could call this stealing except they have no perception of boundaries or ownership
etc.

And no I do not accept a person is guilty of original sin, because they did not commit it.
I think we inherit the consequences of Adams sin, which is separation from God, which
leads to rebellion or actual acts of sin, but is a passive state of sin.

Again morality often comes down to ownership or rights. If I own everything I see, I can
do with it what I will. If I do not own it, I am restricted by the permissions given to me.

Or take a different view, how can the children of believers be regarded as Holy?
At what point does faith and responsibility really kick in?
 
PeterJens said:
You raise an interesting point. Sin, is sin sin if the person is allowed to do something
but someone then removes this privilege. Or a child goes into a fridge and explores.
You could call this stealing except they have no perception of boundaries or ownership
etc.

And no I do not accept a person is guilty of original sin, because they did not commit it.
I think we inherit the consequences of Adams sin, which is separation from God, which
leads to rebellion or actual acts of sin, but is a passive state of sin.

Again morality often comes down to ownership or rights. If I own everything I see, I can
do with it what I will. If I do not own it, I am restricted by the permissions given to me.

Or take a different view, how can the children of believers be regarded as Holy?
At what point does faith and responsibility really kick in?
Click to expand...


Hi Peter, thanks for answers, it helps to clear confusion, knowing what someone actually believes especially in debating etc.. So I take it you don't agree with imputed righteousness either (that is Christ's righteousness accounted to us)?
(kind of busy day here so just popping in and out lol)
 
dcontroversal said:
Your quote applies unto yourself pal......now....again oh deceptive one....if your going to quote me...make the whole quote or be found in false....man and you wonder why I call you a cake taker.....

THE WHOLE QUOTE

A. I called you on failing to use context and verbiage to make a valid point
B. God did not inspire Amazing Grace.....
C. I did not defile and Holy Song of GOD....they are found in the PSALMS....AMAZING GRACE is not a PSALM

You know....the biggest problem found in man is his inability to simply admit error....

ADAM....no not my fault was EVE's.....EVE....NO not my FAULT I was tricked by the serpent......

Just admit it and be biblical Jim.....end of story bro
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whats your first name dc... let me see (David)..

Anyways Grace is amazing to me coz without grace i am burdened....which makes it amazing Grace to me.

So you can choose not to believe that is holy or God inspired but i think theres definately something wrong with you if you cant even see that could be God inspired..

We Dont get to write everything in the Bible something that God inspired us to do ??? (do we) nope.. bUT WE DO GET TO SHARE ARE INSPIRED MOMENTS WITH ONE ANOTHER......

This is the same for works inspired moments.. God prapared a work for you do and then inspired you to do it.. that is a mazing grace to me also... ie the thing we do whilst ina state of Grace.

You could look at grace as your freedom to be at peace where you... that is if you have communed with the spirit and body of christ to whom you wish to walk with...
 
JIMBO43 said:
whats your first name dc... let me see (David)..

Anyways Grace is amazing to me coz without grace i am burdened....which makes it amazing Grace to me.

So you can choose not to believe that is holy or God inspired but i think theres definately something wrong with you if you cant even see that could be God inspired..

We Dont get to write everything in the Bible something that God inspired us to do ??? (do we) nope.. bUT WE DO GET TO SHARE ARE INSPIRED MOMENTS WITH ONE ANOTHER......

This is the same for works inspired moments.. God prapared a work for you do and then inspired you to do it.. that is a mazing grace to me also... ie the thing we do whilst ina state of Grace.

You could look at grace as your freedom to be at peace where you... that is if you have communed with the spirit and body of christ to whom you wish to walk with...
Click to expand...

When you say "inspired" are you meaning as in 2 Timothy 3:16, theopneustos?
 
MadebyHim said:
This thread seems to be a work, working at not giving in until someone surrenders. Sometimes better just throwing in the towel. Not admitting defeat in doing so, but God is waiting for us to tap out so He can jump in and finish job.
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Ha well get use to it pal coz theres no way im Given in and in the nicest possible way i fight for the good fight and not the bad one of dishonoring Good works..
 
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