Not By Works

[dcontroversal]

ALL true believers are saved the moment they believe




nope. the thief on the cross had no chance for works, but he was saved the moment he appealed to Christ.




they are NOT essential to salvation. They are necessary to prove you are saved if time allows.

.

a fruit not a necessity



in the right direction, although you can show mercy and be unregenerate.

AMEN...I agree.....get ready for the workers for to come out of the woodwork and say the thief is not an example of N.T. salvation.....even though the law and prophets were until JOHN and the thief is a prime example of N.T. salvation without works and water.....

 

[JIMBO43]

a deciple is a follower of discipline...

 

[JIMBO43]

Gods discipline....

 

[Sully]

a deciple is a follower of discipline...

I think you're wrongly using the dictionary....
Strong's Greek: 3101. μαθητής (mathétés) -- a disciple

 

[dcontroversal]

and i give you the same answert as yesterday... to deny this scripture in favor of the dictionary is obsurd..

Keep rejecting JIMMY....all words have biblical definitions and to say otherwise is borderline ignorant!

AND my point stands.....they were ALREADY believers..........tragic you will possibly miss heaven and or the kingdom of God because you refuse sound biblical words and context!

 

[DiscipleDave]

Originally Posted by DiscipleDave
You are Saved by Faith and Works. Tell me, in order to be SAVED, must a person confess? Must they repent? Must they call upon the Lord? All of these things are Works.

As to you comment on me being a works salvationist. i know not what that is. But if it is a {Faith + Works = Salvation} belief, Than i most certainly am. But if it is a {Works = Salvation} belief, Than i am most certainly NOT.

Do you have ears and not hear what i have said to you repeatedly? i 100% believe all those verses which teaching Believing to be Saved. What you fail to understand, is we are talking about all the other verses which plainly teach ________ to be SAVED also. Confessing is not believing now is it. Scriptures teach that you must confess in order to be Saved. Therefore that in and of itself is a WORK, which for some reason you seem to be unable to grasp. i believe all those verses 100% which teach Believing to be Saved. The difference between you and i, (it seems) is you ONLY believe those verses and not believe all the other verses which plainly teach believing ONLY is not enough. That is the problem

James plainly teaches that Faith without Works is dead. You can't or won't believe that, because that does not line up with the Truth that you hold on to, does it. So this is yet another verse that you will need to explain away in order to feel good about yourself not believing it. i mean if it means something else other than what it says, then that is what you need to do, right. God forbid you have to change your belief to fit Scriptures. NO, much easier to change Scriptures to fit what you believe. Hence the reason we have over 120 different denominations in the Christian Faith alone. Scriptures teach to : Have one mind, to : Think the same thing. NO not this generation let us change this verse or that verse to fit into what we believe is the TRUTH. much weeping and gnashing of teeth. It would be better for a person to change what they believe to line up with Scriptures, than to change the Word of God to line up with YOUR belief
What i seen in all that you say here, is a brother desperately trying to change Scriptures and what it plainly and clearly says into something that will line up with what YOU believe.

Faith without works is dead. is so simple that children could understand it. But for those who don't believe it, well what is their options
1) ignore the verse.
2) interpret the verse to mean something else
3) go to the Hebrew and Greek and see if they can change the meanings of each one of the words
4) Do what Mailmandan has done above.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

LOL. Whose the one trying to change Scripture?

" For it it by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this is not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— not by works, so that no one can boast." Eph. 2:8-9

i believe this verse and what it says 100% how to GET SAVED. Tell me how do you think i have tried to change this Scripture?

You see the problem is, not this verse, which you and i believe, it is all the other verses that you choose NOT to believe. i believe All Scriptures. It is only when you believe every single verse in Scriptures that you can come to the knowledge of the TRUTH. You believe that verse above, so do i. There are other verses too, that teach how we are Saved.

Lets say there are 40 verses which specifically tell us how to be Saved.
The Faith ONLY people will ONLY believe all those verses which teach believing to be Saved, all the while making void, ignoring, or interpreting away all the other verses which plainly teaches how to be Saved.
The verse you mention above, which i believe and never have tried to change, is one of many verses which teach believing to be Saved. This verse however does not negate, make void all the other verses which tell us how to be SAVED. Anyone who picks and chooses which verses they will believe in all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away other verses in Scriptures. DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH.

God told me this and it is absolutely True.

God told me "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures than what you believe is WRONG."

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[FreeNChrist]

This logic is flawed.

Tell me when Christ was crucified and rose again the third day and appeared to His Disciples. Did they believe that Jesus was in TRUTH the Son of God? This is a yes or no answer.

So they believed in Jesus, but were not yet baptized by the Holy Ghost yet. So believing is NOT being baptized.

Luk_3:16 John answered, saying unto them all, I indeed baptize you with water; but one mightier than I cometh, the latchet of whose shoes I am not worthy to unloose: he shall baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire:

So then we are baptized by the Holy Ghost. This is the Baptism that is required for one to be SAVED, NOT water baptism.

Now in the above, the Disciples Believed but were not yet baptized by the Holy Ghost, for they have not yet received the Spirit, therefore your logic that you are baptized when you believe is flawed.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

If my logic is flawed why are kinda, sorta, in your own unique way, agreeing with it????? LOL.

 

[JIMBO43]

And He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. ...and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

 

[JesusRules1]

There are so many one liners of what people believe as truth,and they take away from so many other scriptures that expound on it more,and reveal it more for they are not seeing the whole picture,and it is if they do not want to,but want a no pressure,relaxed,walk in their salvation,wanting no responsibility.

Faith alone,one liner,but this is when we initially come to Christ,for that is all we can do,and then when we receive the Spirit,then a man is justified by works,and not by faith alone.Two different time periods,one when we initially come to Christ,one when we receive the Spirit,but Paul said,if a person believes that God blesses with material and monetary gain,and teach such,withdraw yourself from them,having food and clothing,be content,for whoever covets money has erred from the faith,and James,said,if you say depart in peace to someone,but do not care about the person's needs,then faith without works is dead,so Paul and James are saying the same thing.

But people do not harmonize scriptures,and I do not think they like to do that.

Not saved by works,one liner,but again this is when we initially come to Christ,for our righteousness is as filthy rags,but when we receive the Spirit,again a man is justified by works,and not faith alone.

Predestined to salvation,one liner,but the Bible says that God wants all people to come to the truth,and be saved,and the Spirit and the bride say Come,and whosoever will can have salvation,and the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,although it happened 4000 years later,for God calls things that have not happened yet,as though they already happened,which God already had the plan to give mankind salvation before He laid down the foundation of the world,so it is the same as if the saints already had salvation from the foundation of the world,but that salvation did not come until the future,when the Lamb was slain from the foundation of the world,and that salvation is to whoever wants that salvation,and many are called but few are chosen on earth,not in the beginning,for God's kingdom is based on true love.

Faith alone,but God said if anybody draw back from the faith His soul shall have no pleasure in them,and Paul said people can err from the faith,and James said people can err from the faith.

Many one liners,and they ignore a lot of scriptures,do not harmonize scriptures,and fail to understand what the Bible says concerning faith,and predestination,and not saved by works,that there is more to it than what they believe.

 

[JIMBO43]

a DECIPLE GET THE TITLE DECIPLE FROM FOLLOWING DISCIPLINE......JESUS said you will be my true deciples if you follow me.. and obey my teachings..

 

[DiscipleDave]

There you go, going way beyond what is written and imagining things.

There is only one baptism that saves, and it ain't John the Baptists.

i thought believing was enough to get SAVED. Are you now admitting that baptism is ALSO required for one to be Saved. Which side of the fence are you on. It seems both. You claim that believing is all that is needed, yet you make a comment like you have here.

So which is it. is Believing that saves or baptism that saves.

i liked what you said above, because what you say is True. There is only one Baptism that is REQUIRED for one to be Saved, and that is by the Holy Ghost.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

 

[dcontroversal]

And He said to them, 'Go into all the world and preach the gospel to all creation. ...and make disciples of all the nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father and the Son and the Holy Spirit,

Sure, and a disciple is a learner of one's doctrine...you cannot learn, know and or apply the word as a disciple unless you have been BORN AGAIN as in SAVED!

 

[Grace777x70]

The man that is drowning and dying doesn't need lessons on how to swim. He doesn't need someone to tell him " You must swim " - you need to do this and that and then you will be saved - if not then you will not be saved. No, he needs a Savior.

We do not save ourselves - Jesus and what He Himself accomplished in His finished work on the cross and resurrection is our Savior. Jesus remains the Savior.

Get this wrong and we create a religion of works based righteousness which is anti-Christ at it's core belief and actually denies the very grace needed to walk free and manifest Christ's life in and through us.

The only true work of God for salvation as in receiving eternal life is believing in Christ's work.

John 6:28-29 (NASB)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] Therefore they said to Him, "What shall we do, so that we may work the works of God?"

[SUP]29 [/SUP] Jesus answered and said to them, "This is the work of God, that you believe in Him whom He has sent."

The good works that God has prepared for us to walk in are the good works done by the Lord Jesus Christ. Eph 2:10

Right believing will bear His fruit in and through our lives to manifest the love and grace of our Father to a hurt and dying world that needs to know Him for who He truly is.

They don't need another religion of self-effort and will-power trying to mimic with behavior modification what only the true life of Christ can produce.

 

[FreeNChrist]

i believe this verse and what it says 100% how to GET SAVED. Tell me how do you think i have tried to change this Scripture?

You see the problem is, not this verse, which you and i believe, it is all the other verses that you choose NOT to believe. i believe All Scriptures. It is only when you believe every single verse in Scriptures that you can come to the knowledge of the TRUTH. You believe that verse above, so do i. There are other verses too, that teach how we are Saved.

Lets say there are 40 verses which specifically tell us how to be Saved.
The Faith ONLY people will ONLY believe all those verses which teach believing to be Saved, all the while making void, ignoring, or interpreting away all the other verses which plainly teaches how to be Saved.
The verse you mention above, which i believe and never have tried to change, is one of many verses which teach believing to be Saved. This verse however does not negate, make void all the other verses which tell us how to be SAVED. Anyone who picks and chooses which verses they will believe in all the while ignoring, making void, or interpreting away other verses in Scriptures. DO NOT KNOW THE TRUTH.

God told me this and it is absolutely True.

God told me "If what you believe contradicts even one verse in Scriptures than what you believe is WRONG."

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

You change scripture by inserting "get" where it isn't. You do that so you can then go on to claim that we "get" saved by grace through faith, BUT, we "remain" saved by works. That's right, right?

But it doesn't say we "get" saved by grace through faith. It says we "have been" saved.

If you need that explained to you I am sure that dcontroversal will be happy to do so.

 

[dcontroversal]

a DECIPLE GET THE TITLE DECIPLE FROM FOLLOWING DISCIPLINE......JESUS said you will be my true deciples if you follow me.. and obey my teachings..

MORE CAKE for JIMMY.....

μαθητής<---disciple

παιδεία<---discipline

NOT even near to the same.....but of course you will reject it.....

 

[JIMBO43]

Sure, and a disciple is a learner of one's doctrine...you cannot learn, know and or apply the word as a disciple unless you have been BORN AGAIN as in SAVED!

a deciple is not just a learner of one doctrin... thats just a blanklet statement..

 

[JIMBO43]

MORE CAKE for JIMMY.....

μαθητής<---disciple

παιδεία<---discipline

NOT even near to the same.....but of course you will reject it.....

lol dont forget the cookies...

 

[FreeNChrist]

i thought believing was enough to get SAVED. Are you now admitting that baptism is ALSO required for one to be Saved. Which side of the fence are you on. It seems both. You claim that believing is all that is needed, yet you make a comment like you have here.

So which is it. is Believing that saves or baptism that saves.

i liked what you said above, because what you say is True. There is only one Baptism that is REQUIRED for one to be Saved, and that is by the Holy Ghost.

^i^

††† In His Holy and Precious Name, Jesus Christ †††

DiscipleDave

Ummmmm....those who receive the one baptism that saves are those who believe.

 

[dcontroversal]

You change scripture by inserting "get" where it isn't. You do that so you can then go on to claim that we "get" saved by grace through faith, BUT, we "remain" saved by works. That's right, right?

But it doesn't say we "get" saved by grace through faith. It says we "have been" saved.

If you need that explained to you I am sure that dcontroversal will be happy to do so.

HAHAH good luck with that.....I have not been "reincarnated" enough times for him to listen to anything I say......

 

[JIMBO43]

yeah and some here are just putting words in our mouth to... like dont obey his teachings youre the done deal...

Like if i add a word it could be a mistake. when im typing.... but seeing as ignorant people who deny God dont care to ask what the other person means... i guess this is the mentality i will get back from deniars of the truth...