Apocrypha
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I'm skimming through the book of enoch now. I don't know what to think about the gnostic gospels although I highly doubt them to be true or divinely inspired. I watched a documentary on the history channel and I don't remember what I learned although most documentaries on the history channel are not to be trusted anyways. I just find it odd that Enoch was mentioned as far back as the book of Genesis the first book of the bible, yet Enoch's "book" was, I am assuming, written much later after the NT canon scriptures included in the holy bible were written. Sounds made up to me. Unless a gnostic angel came out of the sky and told the author exactly what to write down. Fishy Fishy
J
James 4 5
5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?
you know what book James is quoting here? you wont find it in any bible today. the scripture James is referring to has been gone for a long time. people are not adding, they are searching for scriptures such as this that are missing today. this book was important to James, he was the brother of Jesus and i think he would know.
5 Or do you suppose it is to no purpose that the Scripture says, “He yearns jealously over the spirit that he has made to dwell in us”?
you know what book James is quoting here? you wont find it in any bible today. the scripture James is referring to has been gone for a long time. people are not adding, they are searching for scriptures such as this that are missing today. this book was important to James, he was the brother of Jesus and i think he would know.
According to the book of Enoch their are 14 types of trees in the whole world that do not lose their foliage in the winter time. If this is true I wonder if the natural sciences were advanced enough in that day and age to know this as a fact. If there are actually more than 14 types of trees that do not lose their foliage in the winter, I suppose The book of Enoch was incorrect. And the author was talking out of the side of his neck. If it is true maybe they got lucky when they wrote it. Who knows.
It is if you buy a Catholic translation. I also have an English translation of the Greek Septuagint where the Apocrypha is included. I have it as a Kindle version. I bought it at a very low cost because it is the Bible used by the early Church
and is about three hundred years older than the Hebrew version most Bibles are based on
and is about three hundred years older than the Hebrew version most Bibles are based on
I have read Enoch. It is quoted in Jude. I found it interesting in places but it does get rather tedious on the whole. There are other books that are obtainable such as Jubilees and Jasher. They contain some interesting information about the origin of the Giants mentioned in Genesis. These books were available to the early church and Jasher is actually mentioned in the Bible. I see them as supplements in the same way as we read Christian books today. As long as one doesn't base doctrines on them there is no harm in reading them. Everything we read should be measured up against the inspired Scriptures.
Interesting. I am a little confused though. First you say, the books contain information which you claim we can actually learn from, such as the origin of the Giants. Yet you say not to get doctrine from the books. My opinion is that they are either true or not. If they are made up books, why learn from them unless you just want a lesson on mythology.
Good day Samuel23,
I have a copy of Ethiopic Enoch and the scripture that you are referring to is chapter 2. Here is the scripture from Enoch:
"Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all of flesh for every thing which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him." - Enoch 2
I have a copy of Ethiopic Enoch and the scripture that you are referring to is chapter 2. Here is the scripture from Enoch:
"Behold he comes with ten thousands of his saints, to execute judgment upon them, and destroy the wicked, and reprove all of flesh for every thing which the sinful and ungodly have done, and committed against him." - Enoch 2
Well, I know what other folks think, and they are not all in agreement with you, so maybe that is why the particular writing being discussed is not in our NT?
(excerpt)
James 4:5Do ye think that the Scripture saith in vain?
&c.] Some think that the apostle refers to a particular passage of Scripture in the Old Testament, and that he took it from ( Genesis 6:3 ) as some; or from ( Exodus 20:5 ) , as others; or from ( Deuteronomy 7:2 Deuteronomy 7:5 ) or from ( Job 5:6 ) or from ( Proverbs 21:10 ) others think he had in view some text in the New Testament; either ( Romans 12:2 ) or ( Galatians 5:17 ) and some have imagined that he refers to a passage in the apocryphal book:
``For into a malicious soul wisdom shall not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin.'' (Wisdom 1:4)
and others have been of opinion that it is taken out of some book of Scripture then extant, but now lost, which by no means can be allowed of: the generality of interpreters, who suppose a particular text of Scripture is referred to, fetch it from ( Numbers 11:29 ) but it seems best of all to conclude that the apostle has no regard to any one particular passage of Scripture, in which the following words are expressly had, since no such passage appears; but that his meaning is, the sense of the Scripture everywhere, where it speaks of this matter, is to this purpose: nor does it say this, or any thing else in vain; whatever is written there is to answer some end, as for learning, edification, and comfort, for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness; neither with respect to what is before suggested, that what is asked in a right manner, and for a right end, shall be given; and that the love of the world, and the love of God, are things incompatible; nor with respect to what follows:
(found here)
James 4:5 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Now, as far as my saying "don't be adding to it," I was referring to adding this Writing to the 27 Books of the NT............and making it 28 Books.......not for nothing, but that is adding to............
(excerpt)
James 4:5Do ye think that the Scripture saith in vain?
&c.] Some think that the apostle refers to a particular passage of Scripture in the Old Testament, and that he took it from ( Genesis 6:3 ) as some; or from ( Exodus 20:5 ) , as others; or from ( Deuteronomy 7:2 Deuteronomy 7:5 ) or from ( Job 5:6 ) or from ( Proverbs 21:10 ) others think he had in view some text in the New Testament; either ( Romans 12:2 ) or ( Galatians 5:17 ) and some have imagined that he refers to a passage in the apocryphal book:
``For into a malicious soul wisdom shall not enter; nor dwell in the body that is subject unto sin.'' (Wisdom 1:4)
and others have been of opinion that it is taken out of some book of Scripture then extant, but now lost, which by no means can be allowed of: the generality of interpreters, who suppose a particular text of Scripture is referred to, fetch it from ( Numbers 11:29 ) but it seems best of all to conclude that the apostle has no regard to any one particular passage of Scripture, in which the following words are expressly had, since no such passage appears; but that his meaning is, the sense of the Scripture everywhere, where it speaks of this matter, is to this purpose: nor does it say this, or any thing else in vain; whatever is written there is to answer some end, as for learning, edification, and comfort, for doctrine, reproof, correction, and instruction in righteousness; neither with respect to what is before suggested, that what is asked in a right manner, and for a right end, shall be given; and that the love of the world, and the love of God, are things incompatible; nor with respect to what follows:
(found here)
James 4:5 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Now, as far as my saying "don't be adding to it," I was referring to adding this Writing to the 27 Books of the NT............and making it 28 Books.......not for nothing, but that is adding to............
Not so much! There are approximately 14 books in the Deutocanonical books, as some are additions that have been added to exisitng books, like Daniel and Esther.
There are also pseudopigraphical books, which were known to have been written into the 2 and 3rd centuries. These are not even debated by any branch of Christians as being inspired! Howver, some of those support gnosticsim, which is a known heresy.
J
those are all good theories but thats just it, they are theories. IMO James is not refering a general teaching, he is quoting a specific text from a scripture not included in todays bible.
Now, as far as my saying "don't be adding to it," I was referring to adding this Writing to the 27 Books of the NT............and making it 28 Books.......not for nothing, but that is adding to............
Colossians 4:16
[SUP]16 [/SUP]After this letter has been read to you, see that it is also read[SUP](AD)[/SUP] in the church of the Laodiceans and that you in turn read the letter from Laodicea.
here is Paul commanding the assembly to read the epistle of laodicea, where is that book today? Christians were commanded to read it so obviously there are more books than what we have today.
Genesis already tells us the origin of the Giants.These books provide further details. Jubilees also gives us the names of Adam and Eves daughters. Its up to the individual whether they believe these details or not. They are not essential to the faith, like Purgatory is to Catholicism for example which relies on 1 Maccabees to justify the Doctrine. Its up to the individual whether they want to read the books no one is forcing people to read them.
It is known that parts of Enoch were found with the dead Sea Scrolls. As far as I know they were exactly the same as what we have now. The Ethiopian Church includes Enoch in their Bible. There is a rumour going round that a complete copy of Enoch was also found with the Scrolls and is in the hands of a private collector.
The following citing can be found in the SPCK publication of the translation made by R H Charles.
The quotation in Jude comes from Chapter 1 verse 9
And behold he cometh with ten thousands of his Holy Ones
To execute judgement upon all
And to destroy the ungodly
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness, which they have ungodly committed
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him
The following citing can be found in the SPCK publication of the translation made by R H Charles.
The quotation in Jude comes from Chapter 1 verse 9
And behold he cometh with ten thousands of his Holy Ones
To execute judgement upon all
And to destroy the ungodly
And to convict all flesh
Of all the works of their ungodliness, which they have ungodly committed
And of all the hard things which ungodly sinners have spoken against him
Needed to add this:
(excerpt)
and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea;
which was not an epistle of the apostle to the Laodiceans, as some have thought, but one that was "written from" thence, as the Syriac version renders it. Marcion, the heretic, called the epistle to the Ephesians, the epistle to the Laodiceans, but without any reason; and others have forged an epistle which bears this name, and appears to be a collection out of others, and chiefly from the epistle to the Philippians; and which being short, and may gratify the curious who cannot otherwise come at it, I shall transcribe it, and is as follows F18.
(found here)
Colossians 4:16 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
(excerpt)
and that ye likewise read the epistle from Laodicea;
which was not an epistle of the apostle to the Laodiceans, as some have thought, but one that was "written from" thence, as the Syriac version renders it. Marcion, the heretic, called the epistle to the Ephesians, the epistle to the Laodiceans, but without any reason; and others have forged an epistle which bears this name, and appears to be a collection out of others, and chiefly from the epistle to the Philippians; and which being short, and may gratify the curious who cannot otherwise come at it, I shall transcribe it, and is as follows F18.
(found here)
Colossians 4:16 Commentary - John Gill's Exposition of the Bible
Just for Catholics
ANSWERS | HOME
The Apocrypha Contradicts Scripture
Question: In one of your articles you claim that the apocrypha contradict the Scripture. I do not see any contradictions.
Answer: Please take a second look and judge for yourself. Let's take some examples, starting with the book of Sirach which teaches that almsgiving makes atonement for sin. “Whoso honoureth his father maketh an atonement for his sins...Water will quench a flaming fire; and alms maketh an atonement for sin” (Sirach 3:3, 30).
Now it is the constant teaching of the Law that atonement is made by a blood sacrifice. For example Leviticus 17:11 states: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
But Sirach teaches that honouring parents and giving alms atones for sin. Sirach teaches that a person can be justified by another method apart from substitutionary sacrifice.
Sirach teaches justification by the works of the law (honouring parents, etc.) which is directly refuted by the Bible: “A man is not justified by the works of the law” (Galatians 2:16). In fact, the apostle Paul goes as far as saying that “if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (verse 21). If we could obtain righteousness by such things as obeying the commandment and doing charity, there would have been no need for Christ dying on the cross.
Similarly Tobit 12:9 states that “alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.” But the Bible states that “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). Being assured by the Word of God that Christ’s blood really cleanses from all sin, we cannot accept that alms-giving is an a different way of purging sin. In fact the Bible makes it clear that ‘without the shedding of blood there is no remission’ (Hebrews 9:14). Tobit proposes an alternative way for purging sin apart from the shedding of blood.
Wisdom 8:19,20 is another contradiction between the apocrypha and Scripture. “For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.” However, the Bible teaches that all are born with original sin. "Through one man’s offense judgment came to all men... by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners" (Romans 5:18, 19). “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10). The author of Wisdom believes he was an exception.
Sirach 12:4-7 advices, “Give to the godly man, and help not a sinner. Do well unto him that is lowly, but give not to the ungodly; hold back thy bread, and give it not unto him... give unto the good, and help not the sinner.” This sound more like pagan philosophy rather than the teaching of God, “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you... Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back” (Luke 6:27,30). “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink;” (Romans 12:20, Proverbs 25:21).
There are also historical errors in the apocrypha. For example, Tobit claims to have been alive when Jeroboam revolted (931 B.C.) and when Assyria conquered Israel (722 B.C.). These two events were separated by over 200 years and yet the total lifespan of Tobit was 158 years (Tobit 1:3-5; 14:11)! Judith mistakenly identifies Nebuchadnezzar as king of the Assyrians (1:1, 7) when in fact he was the king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:1).
Surely the doctrinal and historical errors in the apocrypha are clear evidence against the divine inspiration of these books.
ANSWERS | HOME
The Apocrypha Contradicts Scripture
Question: In one of your articles you claim that the apocrypha contradict the Scripture. I do not see any contradictions.
Answer: Please take a second look and judge for yourself. Let's take some examples, starting with the book of Sirach which teaches that almsgiving makes atonement for sin. “Whoso honoureth his father maketh an atonement for his sins...Water will quench a flaming fire; and alms maketh an atonement for sin” (Sirach 3:3, 30).
Now it is the constant teaching of the Law that atonement is made by a blood sacrifice. For example Leviticus 17:11 states: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”
But Sirach teaches that honouring parents and giving alms atones for sin. Sirach teaches that a person can be justified by another method apart from substitutionary sacrifice.
Sirach teaches justification by the works of the law (honouring parents, etc.) which is directly refuted by the Bible: “A man is not justified by the works of the law” (Galatians 2:16). In fact, the apostle Paul goes as far as saying that “if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (verse 21). If we could obtain righteousness by such things as obeying the commandment and doing charity, there would have been no need for Christ dying on the cross.
Similarly Tobit 12:9 states that “alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.” But the Bible states that “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). Being assured by the Word of God that Christ’s blood really cleanses from all sin, we cannot accept that alms-giving is an a different way of purging sin. In fact the Bible makes it clear that ‘without the shedding of blood there is no remission’ (Hebrews 9:14). Tobit proposes an alternative way for purging sin apart from the shedding of blood.
Wisdom 8:19,20 is another contradiction between the apocrypha and Scripture. “For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.” However, the Bible teaches that all are born with original sin. "Through one man’s offense judgment came to all men... by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners" (Romans 5:18, 19). “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10). The author of Wisdom believes he was an exception.
Sirach 12:4-7 advices, “Give to the godly man, and help not a sinner. Do well unto him that is lowly, but give not to the ungodly; hold back thy bread, and give it not unto him... give unto the good, and help not the sinner.” This sound more like pagan philosophy rather than the teaching of God, “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you... Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back” (Luke 6:27,30). “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink;” (Romans 12:20, Proverbs 25:21).
There are also historical errors in the apocrypha. For example, Tobit claims to have been alive when Jeroboam revolted (931 B.C.) and when Assyria conquered Israel (722 B.C.). These two events were separated by over 200 years and yet the total lifespan of Tobit was 158 years (Tobit 1:3-5; 14:11)! Judith mistakenly identifies Nebuchadnezzar as king of the Assyrians (1:1, 7) when in fact he was the king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:1).
Surely the doctrinal and historical errors in the apocrypha are clear evidence against the divine inspiration of these books.