Not By Works

[PeterJens]

As I have loved you, so you must love one another.
By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:34-35

This is a vast subject. How do you love someone when they close you out?
How do you love someone who one moment could be friendly and the next aggressive
without any known reason as to why?

If you can see out of someone elses eyes in some part it helps.

Loving despite the hurt and pain. You will be miss-understood, accused of terrible things,
abused, beaten, told you are evil, the worst person on the planet, scum, and anything they
can think of, but still you will love them.

Now this was Jesus's love, which we are called to share with each other.
What I often see is rather than this is a goal, something being taken seriously, it is like a
standing joke. It is just too far, too much, too impossible.

Now about your love for one another we do not need to write to you, for you yourselves have been taught by God to love each other.
1 Thess 4:9

Serve one another humbly in love.
Gal 5:13

Finally, all of you, be like-minded, be sympathetic, love one another, be compassionate and humble.
1 Peter 3:8

This grates on our spirits. But because we do not like being rejected, hurt,
miss-understood, labelled, excluded.

But brothers and sisters this is our ministry, our calling, the gift of the Holy Spirit
in us, the very essence of who we are as a people.

 

[zone]

....The answer in this case is repentance of sin, humbleness before the cross,
and opening ones heart up to Christ for healing and forgiveness.....

where'd you get the idea people don't know this?

 

[PeterJens]

where'd you get the idea people don't know this?

Zone - Based on some peoples words and behaviour, I would say they have no real idea.

And we all need to do this everyday.

Do you think all here are in the Kingdom and walk with an open heart before the King?

Based on the complete rejection of basic teaching from Christ, a lot think they know
what spirituality actually is, yet have no internal emotional intelligence or awareness.

Just taking the word repentance and defining it as changing your mind, is indication
enough for me, they have no real clue, how profound repentance is.

 

[PeterJens]

Is Jesus the great changer of who we are?

In three years he took a small group of disciples who where simple jews, following their
lives, into dedicated evangelists and leaders who would give up their lives to testify to
His glorious message.

They were full grown people, with the hard knocks taken, in a rough world.

We are often born and brought up in church, isolated from the sinners, and think everything
is the "holy" bubble. Our view of scripture is often too familiar and too dismissive.

We talk as if miracles will change the world, when in reality repentance is the only thing that
will change the world, when they realise how sinful and lost it really is.

But what is clearly demonstrated a lot of "christians" are still totally immersed in the world and
they have no desire to really walk in Gods ways, and are happy just as they are.

 

[JustWhoIAm]

Is Jesus the great changer of who we are?

In three years he took a small group of disciples who where simple jews, following their
lives, into dedicated evangelists and leaders who would give up their lives to testify to
His glorious message.

They were full grown people, with the hard knocks taken, in a rough world.

We are often born and brought up in church, isolated from the sinners, and think everything
is the "holy" bubble. Our view of scripture is often too familiar and too dismissive.

We talk as if miracles will change the world, when in reality repentance is the only thing that
will change the world, when they realise how sinful and lost it really is.

But what is clearly demonstrated a lot of "christians" are still totally immersed in the world and
they have no desire to really walk in Gods ways, and are happy just as they are.

Some people come from the other end, to be honest. They ruffle feathers because they are not religious at all as much as faith-based. It's normal to grow up on the streets, find Christ minus religion and still be a bit rough around the edges. I'd recommend it except don't be surprised when you get alienated for not being religious.

 

[zone]

Zone - Based on some peoples words and behaviour, I would say they have no real idea.

And we all need to do this everyday.

Do you think all here are in the Kingdom and walk with an open heart before the King?.

I have no way of knowing how many ppl here are pleasing to God, and neither do you.
I suspect it's most here - I've seen them nearly all at times be penitent and/or joyful.

Based on the complete rejection of basic teaching from Christ, a lot think they know
what spirituality actually is, yet have no internal emotional intelligence or awareness..

the complete rejection of which basic teaching?
you think you have identified "a lot" of ppl who are not Christians? then why are you not continually preaching the Gospel along with all that Law you preach?
your words can't save or sanctify anyone - only the Lord's.

Just taking the word repentance and defining it as changing your mind, is indication
enough for me, they have no real clue, how profound repentance is.

ya that argument is silly.
but each one really does know what repentance is (except those who come right out and denounce it <these are heretics)

 

[zone]

Is Jesus the great changer of who we are?

In three years he took a small group of disciples who where simple jews, following their
lives, into dedicated evangelists and leaders who would give up their lives to testify to
His glorious message.

They were full grown people, with the hard knocks taken, in a rough world.

We are often born and brought up in church, isolated from the sinners, and think everything
is the "holy" bubble. Our view of scripture is often too familiar and too dismissive.

We talk as if miracles will change the world, when in reality repentance is the only thing that
will change the world, when they realise how sinful and lost it really is.

But what is clearly demonstrated a lot of "christians" are still totally immersed in the world and
they have no desire to really walk in Gods ways, and are happy just as they are.

why are you determined to take the joy out of everything?

 

[JIMBO43]

Its more than that zone i personaly think he has a demon i hope not but i think prayer is in order.

 

[PeterJens]

why are you determined to take the joy out of everything?

Which joy are you talking about? The joy of this world, that is empty or the bring eternal
joy of praise of God and the love that flows from Him.

Now this is a bible discussion forum. I wonder what you think the subject is, how to partyyyy
all night long? I know what that is, and how it does not have any meaning.

 

[PeterJens]

All are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.
Rom 3:24

You have been set free from sin and have become slaves to righteousness.
Rom 6:18

This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God.
1 John 4:2

The fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, forbearance, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness and self-control. Against such things there is no law. Those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. Since we live by the Spirit, let us keep in step with the Spirit.
Gal 5:22-25

Rejoice in the Lord always. I will say it again: Rejoice! Let your gentleness be evident to all. The Lord is near. Do not be anxious about anything, but in every situation, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.
Phil 4:4-9

 

[eternally-gratefull]

why are you determined to take the joy out of everything?

some people are fine, until they have someone question them. Then their true persona comes out.

 

[PeterJens]

Let them praise his name with dancing and make music to him with timbrel and harp.
Psalm 149:3

Finally, brothers and sisters, whatever is true, whatever is noble, whatever is right, whatever is pure, whatever is lovely, whatever is admirable—if anything is excellent or praiseworthy—think about such things.
Phil 4:8

 

[dcontroversal]

Yes they will.

why? Saving faith produces works.

However, Unlike Jesus, his followers will not be perfect. and will always be in a state of sanctification. Some babes, Some mature. But they are all children of God.

Please get off this "grace alone causes sin" strawman, It jut is not true.

Amen to that...I am also tired of this garbage....just because one believes in salvation by grace through faith it does not men we believe we can live like the devil....shakes head at this lie..

 

[dcontroversal]

You are saved by grace through faith and some change in your life must follow (except of cases like the salvation right before death etc).

If any change/work does not follow and you think and live like God does not exist, your faith is dead and worthless.

How would you describe works of wood, hay and stubble....YET STILL SAVED....

HOW about those who allow the things of the world to choke out the fruit, just like a garden that gets too many weeds....still has fruit but very limited and stunted....STILL SAVED

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! Faith is the root of salvation and works are the fruit. No fruit at all would demonstrate there is no root/faith/never saved to begin with. All genuine believers are fruitful, but not all are equally fruitful.

1st Corinthians 3.......

Believer A-->faithful works of gold silver and precious stones
Believer B-->Not faithful works of wood, hay and stubble

BOTH SAVED!

 

[dcontroversal]

we also can not judge a person's "fruit" God is the only true "fruit inspector" For only he knows a persons heart. We will find many we think produce fruit had no fruit at all ("Lord Lord we did this in your name"). and many we think had no fruit had some.

Can you imagine for one minute how many on this site will reject this type of fruit/work as proof of salvation....

1 (ONE) cup of cold water given in the name of Jesus...........

Some have valuable fruit/works...gold, silver, precious stones
Some have non valuable fruit/works...wood, hay and stubble

YET both are saved.....JUST think..as a believer I can give 1 (one) cup of cold water to a believer in the name of JESUS and in no way, shape or form lose MY REWARD in HEAVEN

 

[Grace777x70]

Amen to that...I am also tired of this garbage....just because one believes in salvation by grace through faith it does not men we believe we can live like the devil....shakes head at this lie..

I agree...that type of thinking will always come when the true gospel of the grace of God is preached.

When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God, then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and - this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.

The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.

We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.

The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7 and then chapter 8 talks about walking by the spirit within.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! I recently left a different Bible discussion forum because it had become hi-jacked by false teachers, including sinless-perfectionists who claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus is). Those who believe that lie are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

Amen to that...there are not less than a few on here that push that garbage.....Jesus does not continually mediate for the sinless.....

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! I recently left a different Bible discussion forum because it had become hi-jacked by false teachers, including sinless-perfectionists who claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus is). Those who believe that lie are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

when you use the word "must" you are placing the onus on works, not on grace, which in my view, is taking the focus off God and putting it on works (self).

A person who has saving faith, WILL do work, there is no MUST about it.. It is a natural result..

Amen...and will add...creation testifies.....Apple trees take years of growth and maturity before one produces even one apple....we are similar...we are saved by faith void of works...after growth and maturity we produce....more of the word (fertilizer) the more we produce, our fruit can be stunted as well by being hindered by the world...at the end of the day many will have works of wood, hay and stubble.....yet they will still be saved....

How any apples are required to know an apple tree......1 (ONE) apple...end of story...a believer that has ONE WORK or PIECE of fruit is IDENTIFIED as a believer....end of story!

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! I recently left a different Bible discussion forum because it had become hi-jacked by false teachers, including sinless-perfectionists who claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus is). Those who believe that lie are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

it is sad.

They claim one must be sinless. Yet some admit, they are not sinless.

it is like they say one thing, then come back and say the opposite. then wonder why people get confused. or call them out.. Then they get mad and start to attack.

It is messed up..

then get mad when someone calls them out..

The following describes the "sinless workers for" and their path

sinner-->saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost saved lost....

There is no hope in works (Galatians 1, 3) and there is no hope in claiming to be sinless.............both are false and contrary to the truth......