Not By Works

[mailmandan]

1st Corinthians 3.......

Believer A-->faithful works of gold silver and precious stones
Believer B-->Not faithful works of wood, hay and stubble

BOTH SAVED!

I don't understand 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 to apply to believers A (all of their works are gold, silver, precious stones) and believers B (all of their works are wood, hay, straw) but the quality of each man's work is to be revealed with fire. Works that remain receive a reward and works which are burned up result in loss of reward, but the believer is still saved. Believers may very well have works of both kind.

 

[dcontroversal]

Amen! I recently left a different Bible discussion forum because it had become hi-jacked by false teachers, including sinless-perfectionists who claim to be sinless, without fault or defect, flawless, absolutely perfect 100% of the time (exactly as Jesus is). Those who believe that lie are suffering from a terminal case of self-righteousness (1 John 1:8-10).

I agree...that type of thinking will always come when the true gospel of the grace of God is preached.

When we preach the gospel of the grace of Christ and no one says "What?...are you saying we can just go out and sin because of grace?" - if no one says that to us when we are preaching the grace of God, then we have not preached the gospel like Paul did.

The very nature of the gospel leads the carnal mind to think that it means we can sin all we want because of grace and - this is also what the natural mind that some Christians live by which is what they hear when they hear the true gospel being preached that grace believers are saying it's ok to sin all you want now because of grace.

The reality is what is being said is the complete opposite of what those listening with their natural minds think is being said.

We don't need to water down the gospel because it might get mis-understood as it takes away the full strength of the completed and awesome work that our Lord Jesus Christ did for all of us.

The answer to shall we sin so that grace may abound is in Romans chapters 6 and 7 and then chapter 8 talks about walking by the spirit within.

Where sin abounds grace did much more abound.............this lie about grace believers thinking or saying they can live anyway we want is just a default lie of accusation made by those who have no real faith....the ones that trust into self......

 

[dcontroversal]

I don't understand 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 to apply to believers A (all of their works are gold, silver, precious stones) and believers B (all of their works are wood, hay, straw) but the quality of each man's work is to be revealed with fire. Works that remain receive a reward and works which are burned up result in loss of reward, but the believer is still saved. Believers may very well have works of both kind.

EXACTLY............I just condensed it to illustrate that both are saved......peace bro

 

[dcontroversal]

I have no way of knowing how many ppl here are pleasing to God, and neither do you.
I suspect it's most here - I've seen them nearly all at times be penitent and/or joyful.



the complete rejection of which basic teaching?
you think you have identified "a lot" of ppl who are not Christians? then why are you not continually preaching the Gospel along with all that Law you preach?
your words can't save or sanctify anyone - only the Lord's.



ya that argument is silly.
but each one really does know what repentance is (except those who come right out and denounce it <these are heretics)

AMEN.................!!!!!!!

 

[Enow]

I don't understand 1 Corinthians 3:12-15 to apply to believers A (all of their works are gold, silver, precious stones) and believers B (all of their works are wood, hay, straw) but the quality of each man's work is to be revealed with fire. Works that remain receive a reward and works which are burned up result in loss of reward, but the believer is still saved. Believers may very well have works of both kind.

What about verses 16-17 where those that defile the temple of God, He will destroy?

2 Timothy 2:18-21 testify of 2 vessels in His House; and the vessels unto dishonor are the ones that did not depart from iniquity.. as in by that iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied entrance to the Marriage Supper unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes at the pre trib rapture event.

Those left behind will be received later on for they still have His seal.

 

[dcontroversal]

What about verses 16-17 where those that defile the temple of God, He will destroy?

2 Timothy 2:18-21 testify of 2 vessels in His House; and the vessels unto dishonor are the ones that did not depart from iniquity.. as in by that iniquity that denies Him, they will be denied entrance to the Marriage Supper unless they repent with His help before the Bridegroom comes at the pre trib rapture event.

Those left behind will be received later on for they still have His seal.

No different than One being cut lose for the destruction of the flesh that the spirit may be saved in the day of Christ.....God KILLED MOSES because of one sin, yet will you argue that Moses was not a child of God? How about DAVID...he suffered the sword in his house all the days of his life and physical ailments (obvious by the psalms and things said or implied) because of his sin with Bathsheba and Uriah, also numbering the people....yet will you argue that he was not a child of God?

God chastens EVERY SON whom he receives....up to and including physical death!

 

[dcontroversal]

where'd you get the idea people don't know this?

La La land...........and dream-ville........or the Land of make believe......who knows.........

 

[dcontroversal]

Is Jesus the great changer of who we are?

In three years he took a small group of disciples who where simple jews, following their
lives, into dedicated evangelists and leaders who would give up their lives to testify to
His glorious message.

.

Yeah...They all scattered like roaches when the lights come on and then even denied knowing him while cussing like a sailor......then went back to fishing and how much do we hear about most of them......not much!

 

[dcontroversal]

Most evangelical christians would agree with your declaration.

Now if we talk about purity, holiness and walking blamelessly, or righteously,
some raise arguments.

Christ calls us to these things, not as jokes to point out our sin, but in Him they
can be fulfilled.

Now I am surprised so many walk in unbelief, and literally believe love of your neighbour
and love of your enemy is just a way of showing you are a sinner, not it is actually possible.

How can this be true? If I can do it, so can you.
I would describe this situation as spiritual unbelief and poverty.

On Jesus's declaration, I am following Him and if you cannot love, you are not.

A new command I give you: Love one another. As I have loved you, so you must love one another. By this everyone will know that you are my disciples, if you love one another.
John 13:34-35

And how can you ever do this? By being broken at the foot of the cross,
reaching out to Christ and letting Him fill you, and change your heart.

But it takes complete honesty and repentance.
Many have found this place, the question is are you willing to go here.
Jesus calls us all to the Kingdom, to be of this one mind and heart.

What stops us is pain, and its defence. Are we prepared to suffer and forgive,
to open our hearts and let things flow, to walk as Jesus walked.

You realize that many things you say is void of truth or a foundation....NOT one person I know on this site believes and or states the underlined above....WHERE do you come up with these whimsical delusions friend?

 

[Seohce]

Amen to that...I am also tired of this garbage....just because one believes in salvation by grace through faith it does not men we believe we can live like the devil....shakes head at this lie..

Romans 9:15-16 For he says to Moses, “I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion.” It does not, therefore, depend on man’s desire or effort, but on God’s mercy.

Matthew 7:21-23 “Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord,’ will enter the kingdom of heaven, but ONLY HE WHO DOES THE WILL OF MY FATHER who is in heaven. Many will say to me on that day, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?’ Then I will tell them plainly, ‘I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!’

Galatians 6:7-10 Do not be deceived: God cannot be mocked. A man reaps what he sows. The one who sows to please his sinful nature, from that nature will reap destruction; the one who sows to please the Spirit, from the Spirit will reap eternal life. Let us not become weary in doing good, for at the proper time we will reap a harvest if we do not give up. Therefore, as we have opportunity, let us do good to all people, especially to those who belong to the family of believers.

WHAT THEN WILL A MAN WITH DEAD FAITH(without works) SOW & REAP? NOTHING!!!...FAITH WITHOUT LOVE IS NOTHING.(1cor 13:2)

FAITH WITHOUT HOPE IS NOT FAITH(heb 11:1) BUT YOU SAY “...SALVATION WE ALREADY POSSESS.” SO YOU HAVE PASSED THE TRIBULATION, DONE WITH THE RESURRECTION & EXEMPTED FROM JUDGMENT??? NEED SOME REALITY CHECK HERE. BUT I’M SURE YOU WILL USE ROMANS 8:1 AS A DEFENSE,..BUT HOW SURE ARE YOU THAT YOU ARE IN CHRIST IF YOU ARE DISOBEDIENT, LAZY, WITHOUT GOOD WORKS, HYPOCRITE & WITHOUT THE SPIRIT BECAUSE OF DEAD FAITH.

FAITH WITHOUT WORKS IS DEAD(james 2:17-26) AND I DON’T KNOW WHY THE DEAD COULD NOT ACCEPT THIS...BUT GOD IS SO GOOD THAT HE WANTS EVERYONE TO BE SAVED AND COME TO THE KNOWLEDGE OF THE TRUTH(1 tim 2:4)

Matthew23:3-4,12-13,15,23-26,28,33 So you must obey them and do everything they tell you. But do not do what they do, for THEY DO NOT PRACTICE WHAT THEY PPREACH. They tie up heavy loads and put them on men’s shoulders, but they themselves are NOT WILLING TO LIFT A FINGER TO MOVE them. For whoever EXALTS HIMSELF will be humbled, and whoever humbles himself will be exalted. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You shut the kingdom of heaven in men’s faces. YOU yourselves DO NOT ENTER, nor will you let those enter who are trying to. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You travel over land and sea to win a single convert, and when he becomes one, you make him twice as much A SON OF HELL AS YOU ARE. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth of your spices—mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law—JUSTICE, MERCY & FAITHFULNESS. You should have practiced the latter, without neglecting the former. YOU BLIND GUIDES! You strain out a gnat but swallow a camel. “Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You clean the outside of the cup and dish, but inside they are FULL OF GREED & SELF INDULGENCE. Blind Pharisee! First clean the inside of the cup and dish, and then the outside also will be clean. In the same way, on the outside you appear to people as righteous but on the inside you are FULL OF HYPOCRISY AND WICKEDNESS. “You snakes! You brood of vipers! How will you escape being condemned to hell?

 

[Seohce]

Yes they will.

why? Saving faith produces works.

However, Unlike Jesus, his followers will not be perfect. and will always be in a state of sanctification. Some babes, Some mature. But they are all children of God.

Please get off this "grace alone causes sin" strawman, It jut is not true.

“IT WOULD BE A LIE IF IT DID NOT GET INTO YOU NERVES.”

2 Corinthians 2:15-17 For we are to God the aroma of Christ among those who are being saved and those who are perishing. To the one we are the smell of death; to the other, the fragrance of life. And who is equal to such a task? Unlike so many, we do not peddle the word of God for profit. On the contrary, in Christ we speak before God with sincerity, like men sent from God.

Hebrews 4:12 For the word of God is living and active. Sharper than any double-edged sword, it penetrates even to dividing soul and spirit, joints and marrow; it judges the thoughts and attitudes of the heart.

John 6:61-66 Aware that his disciples were grumbling about this, Jesus said to them, “DOES THIS OFFEND YOU? What if you see the Son of Man ascend to where he was before! The Spirit gives life; the flesh counts for nothing. The words I have spoken to you are spirit and they are life. Yet there are some of you who do not believe.” For Jesus had known from the beginning which of them did not believe and WHO WOULD BETRAY HIM. He went on to say, “This is why I told you that no one can come to me unless the Father has enabled him.” From this time many of HIS DISCIPLES TURNED BACK AND NO LONGER FOLLOWED HIM.

1 Corinthians 4:5-7,20 Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men’s hearts. At that time each will receive his praise from God. Now, brothers, I have applied these things to myself and Apollos for your benefit, so that you may learn from us the meaning of the saying, “DO NOT GO BEYOND WHAT IS WRITTEN.” Then you will not take pride in one man over against another. For WHO MAKES YOU DIFFERENT FROM ANYONE ELSE? What do you have that you did not receive? And if you did receive it, WHY DO YOU BOAST as though you did not? For the kingdom of God is NOT A MATTER OF TALK but of power.

1 Corinthians1:18-20,27-31 Christ the Wisdom and Power of God For the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are BEING SAVED it is the power of God. For it is written: “I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelligence of the intelligent I will frustrate.” Where is the wise man? Where is the scholar? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong. He chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, so that no one may boast before him. IT IS BECAUSE OF HIM THAT YOU ARE IN CHRIST JESUS, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our RIGHTEOUSNESS,HOLINESS AND REDEMPTION. Therefore, as it is written: “Let him who boasts boast in the Lord.”

 

[Seohce]

How would you describe works of wood, hay and stubble....YET STILL SAVED....

HOW about those who allow the things of the world to choke out the fruit, just like a garden that gets too many weeds....still has fruit but very limited and stunted....STILL SAVED

Now that is faith with works...SAVED
Faith without works is DEAD and I can't do anything against the truth.

 

[wattie]

You realize that many things you say is void of truth or a foundation....NOT one person I know on this site believes and or states the underlined above....WHERE do you come up with these whimsical delusions friend?

Hey DC

Looks like you've pulled the workers out of the walls again

I dunno.. it is ALWAYS the response to when you bring up once saved always saved or saved by grace thru faith in Christ..

the inevitable accusation of preaching a license to sin.

This is not understanding how huge the grace is that is given in the first place.

A perfect God.. gives eternal salvation to fallen man.. that is grace beyond understanding!

Anyway.. keep up the faith brother!

 

[JaumeJ]

The thread title shoud have read "Not By Works Along."

 

[MadebyHim]

The thread title shoud have read "Not By Works Along."

You meant alone, not along right?

 

[JaumeJ]

I see it, now. duhhhhh! I know you know what I meant but just in case........

Not by works alone............God bless you, and you may have a snark, a giggle a guffaw, a belly laugh or whatever now...

The thread title shoud have read "Not By Works Along."

 

[PeterJens]

Now I am surprised so many walk in unbelief, and literally believe love of your neighbour
and love of your enemy is just a way of showing you are a sinner, not it is actually possible.

You realize that many things you say is void of truth or a foundation....NOT one person I know on this site believes and or states the underlined above....WHERE do you come up with these whimsical delusions friend?

You have just fallen into a typical contradiction.

For the entire law is fulfilled in keeping this one command: “Love your neighbor as yourself.”
Gal 5:14

Now if one holds no believer can actually walk righteously, in fulfillment of the law you
are then contradicting this very scripture.

And as the whole argument of your group is you cannot do this, it is a fair summary of
mine to state what I stated.

This is why the blind are leading the blind. Scripture is very plain and complete about
its testimony. Now Jesus and walk in His ways and you will fulfill the law of Christ.

And the disdain in your voice, the condemnation is very clear. But where does it come
from when I am proclaiming the truth of Gods word. And do you understand how profound
that is, it is not me, I am merely acknowledging what Christ has given us in His death and
resurrection.

 

[PeterJens]

Yeah...They all scattered like roaches when the lights come on and then even denied knowing him while cussing like a sailor......then went back to fishing and how much do we hear about most of them......not much!

So my friend, you say the apostles are roaches?
You look at the chosen of Christ, those who died for their testimony, as despised people
and not brothers and sisters in Christ who offered up their lives as a living sacrifice pleasing
and acceptable in the sight of God.

 

[PeterJens]

How subtle is the lie? How denegrating to the gospel of truth?

Repentance is only agreeing with God.
Salvation is just saying Christ has done everything.
Walking with Christ is just realising your spiritual nature.

Four things are missing. Sin and righteousness, law and grace.
Sin is this impossible fuzzy thing that cannot be solved.
Righteousness is this impossible standard we have no way of following.
Faith is being one with Christ, whatever that means, so just look to him and ignore oneself.

And resolving issues of the heart, forget it, that is impossible. The heart is desperately
wicked and only part of the flesh which God will deal with at judgement day.

Bad news is the heart is you, and judgement and hell is where you are headed if it is
not resolved. Christ stands at the door and knocks.

Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with that person, and they with me.
Rev 3:20

Repent of the sins you know you do, bow before the King and ask His help
and revelation to walk in His ways through the power of the cross.

The cross is love unbounded, a commitment to you for eternity. Dwell on how
much this cost God, the King, and how this means He will change you.

By dwelling on this, love will become apparent in your soul, and will empower you
to do the things you once thought impossible. That is the gospel and the power
of the cross.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.
1 John 1:9

So start confessing your sins and gain the healing from Christ. Amen.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yeah...They all scattered like roaches when the lights come on and then even denied knowing him while cussing like a sailor......then went back to fishing and how much do we hear about most of them......not much!

I just do not get how people can post over ad over how God changes us, or God does this and that, Yet deny it all at the same time.

IF God is the great changer as they claim (and we KNOW he is) then to say God may FAIL to change us and we lose salvation because of it. well just contradicts the fact, God is the great changer,

You can;t have it both ways.