Tithe!

[AllenW]

Precious.

Paul, in Hebrews 7, did receive instructions about tithing from the Lord. That issue touches all people because it handles their wallets. That puts everyone on guard!

Paul brings up a fact that the Levites of Israel were deactivated concerning collection of tithes.

They were deactivated because the eternal priesthood in Christ replaced them. Jesus came by way of that eternal priesthood, by which also Melchizedek came, to whom Abraham tithed before the law commanded tithing 430 years later. The law from Moses commanded tithing for the good of Israel.

When the Levitical priesthood was abolished in Christ, tithing switched back to the eternal priesthood in Christ, instead of through the Levites. Tithing then resumed outside of Mosaic commandment.

Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus, who is of that eternal priesthood by which Melchizedek collecting tithes from mortal men came, now receives tithes of mortal men for the use of mortal men preaching the gospel of Christ.

Jesus is still receiving them. Heb 7:8

He only receives legitimate tithes that are submitted! He also blesses freewill giving according to what God puts on the hearts of disciples, and even of unbelievers, other than "dogs", those that live abominations.

When poor people apply faith, by faith tithing, God is obligated to apply the tithe blessing. When a congregation of tithers tithe regularly, they prosper even though they tithe few dollars. God has not rescinded the tithe blessing, but removed the curse of not tithing. People "chipping in" a few dollars regardless of what the Holy Spirit says can't possibly prosper from tithing 10% of their gain. They might benefit from "giving' alms, in the concept of a "loan" to God. God sees the "heart of man", and so blesses accordingly. It matters not whether the tithe is paid by commandment or by spiritual obedience. God honors the tithe, then he blesses alms. If we give "largely" to charity but neglect the weightier matters, there remains no blessing other than the immediate praise of men. A large gift regardless of tithe then makes the newspaper. Whatever praise then is from people, not God, so that commendation is dead when that newspaper is in the trash can. The quiet "secret" tithe is an eternal commendation from God, not to be known among mortal men who can't open the windows of heaven.

It is a false teaching that none of ancient Israel had to tithe unless a farmer. All "gain" was subject to the tithe. A silver mine owner was to tithe. So was a miner employee to tithe. A rocking chair maker was to tithe. An ancient real estate merchant was to tithe. A merchant marine shipper was to tithe. None were excluded.

Only food was tithed.
There are no verses in the Old Testament that say other wise.

 

[AllenW]

There are other ways to tithe besides money. Giving your time to help prepare for service and events are other ways to tithe.

That is not a tithe.
It's called "volunteer work".

 

[AllenW]

The OT tithe is actually a series of 3 tithes. The middle tithe calls for holy feast attendees to supply all sorts of food and drink for the entire population of feast-goers. If the jurney there was too long or cumbersome, then sell whatever you have to contribute, convert the tithe to money (coins), then deposit that in the treasury. Deuteronomy 14:24-26 (KJV)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And if the way be too long for thee, so that thou art not able to carry it; or if the place be too far from thee, which the LORD thy God shall choose to set his name there, when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee:
[SUP]25 [/SUP] Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose:
[SUP]26 [/SUP] And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,

They got to consume part of their tithes during the celebrations.

The third tithe was to supply the poor. They were given consecrated things in the homes, items set apart for clean uses, like silver utensils. Whatever was consecrated for holy use was eligible to be given.

The first tithe was 100% for the Levites, who then tithed that to the priesthood. Their tithe was split up into phases of food harvests, and times when wine was produced. The idea was to share some of everythng the earth yielded up in bounty. Please do your own homework. It's not all that hard to discover.

"ALL" the people in the land had to tithe. Would anyone assume all Israelites made their living from agriculture? Jesus' dad was a carpenter. Would you suppose he would have sold a chair for a bushel of wheat to carry to Jerusalem?

The Bible is vague concerning such details of life then, giving an overall instruction about tithing. That's why the rabbis studied and determined what was reasonable for everyone in the land (and those living outside Israel) to do concerning the tithe. You can find a lot of details in the various Talmud versions and other writings that gave the people specific guidance. The only income exemption I can find is operators of mills that ground the "corn".

I am not trying to push tithing. The Bible never condemns tithing, there being nothing evil in it. I tithe because it worked for Abraham, was received by the eternal priesthood centuries before commanded by God through Moses, of which priesthood Jesus is. No preacher has to draw it out of me. It's an eternal thing that has promises. The curses connected to the commanded tithe are removed in Christ. I have been tithing over half of my life, and know God has blessed us far beyond capacity to earn blessing. Not tithing is unthinkable for us, that being a pleasure to my wife and I, in addition to biblical giving as determined from my own heart, which sometimes has monetary blessing connected to that. God will at least repay gifts in some significant manner, so we contribute to some missionaries and other ministries besides our church.

I grew up when my grandparents rented apartments to Jews in the 1950's-1970's. As a child I found lots of ways to earn money working for them, learning from them. We never saw or even heard of a poor Jew, always paying rent on time, always living far better than the rest of us. They all came to America and started up businesses marketing various trades, and still do. None in my family were Christian, none Jew, but I learned how to prosper, and even tithed to their synagogue because that was a "secret" to their wealth building.

Now that's interesting.
Can you find a Rabbi today who will collect a tithe?
I've never heard of one doing so.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Only food was tithed.
There are no verses in the Old Testament that say other wise.

"Food"...meaning agricultural or livestock products...

Since not everyone was in those professions/occupations(agriculture, livestock), not everyone was required to give the different types of tithes mentioned in the O.T.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Now that's interesting.
Can you find a Rabbi today who will collect a tithe?
I've never heard of one doing so.

He is right on 3 types of tithes. That's doing better than most tithing proponents.

He's wrong on Abram. Abram gave a tenth of war spoils to Melchizedek and gave the rest to the King of Sodom. There is nothing in the O.T. suggesting he gave 10% on occupational work.

I just realized that these posts that you're responding to, AllenW, are over a year old.

 

[88]

Hi guys! Am anew member, Ihave aquestion please just help! Iam born and believe in Tithing and It's apractice Ifollow, Iwas attending acertain meeting in another church where the preacher was talking about giving and he said, a) Jesus never talked about Tithe but Jesus taught about sacrificial giving! b) The apostles never taught about Tithing but they taught early belivers to give towards the extension of the gospel and also to the needy in Jerusalem! c) he said Tithe is alegalistic way of giving and the Apostles in Acts 15:22-30! Please help me know, could Ihave practised this in vain!

****know tithing is good---Hebrews 7---Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek---this was before the law----Christ received tithes through Melchizedek----giving 10% is just the starting place being under Grace----when people talk against tithing they may not want to give---only about 30% of the Church tithes---imagine running your household budget on only 30% of what you have now...

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

****know tithing is good---Hebrews 7---Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek---this was before the law----Christ received tithes through Melchizedek----giving 10% is just the starting place being under Grace----when people talk against tithing they may not want to give---only about 30% of the Church tithes---imagine running your household budget on only 30% of what you have now...

Abraham paid tithes to Melchizedek On war spoils. So, next time we go to war(and have spoils), find a priest and give him 10%. Also, find a king and give him/her the rest. Abram kept nothing! Someone show me a Scripture verse that shows Abram giving tithes from his occupational work.

giving 10% is just the starting place being under Grace. Abram kept nothing. That was before the law. Anyway, we can read in the tither's Bible:

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give[which is at least 10%], not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver[of at least 10%]. -Not 2 Cor 9:7

when people talk against tithing they may not want to give Going along with this lame argument, tithers give because they want to brag.

The truth: tithers think the Bible commands it. Those who oppose tithing believe it was an O.T. rule applicable to Israelites who grew crops or raised livestock. Opponents of tithing believe in grace giving.

know tithing is good Grace giving is good.

Each of you should give what you have decided in your heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. -2 Cor 9:7

 

[Wesil]

Hi guys! I've been away for over ayear now but thanks to the administration of Christian chat forum who send me an email concerning a question I asked over a year ago on Tithing! I've read and am still doing personal research on the same! So,contribution will be of great benefit.

 

[AllenW]

Hi Sir Dan,

This is to clarify why I still believe tithes should be done by Christians. I put the teaching of Scriptures in its entirety above men's opinion on this matter, hence, the Scriptures is the final authority of my faith and practice. Putting that into consideration, what the Bible says is very important and what counts. Here look, In Acts 2:42 was mentioned about the "apostles doctrine" meaning that which apostles taught. The "apostles doctrine" was true, not because an apostle taught it, but it was in consistent with the scriptures.

Acts 2:42 And they continued stedfastly in the apostles' doctrine and fellowship, and in breaking of bread, and in prayers.

We are told that the Bereans examined the teaching of the Apostle Paul in the light of the scriptures before accepting it.

Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so.

Likewise, the Church of Ephesus examined some who called themselves Apostles and found them liars.

Revelation 2:2 I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:

So it is to be noted that Bereans used the Scriptures as the standard practice to know one's teaching is of God.

The so called "absence" of Apostolic command is not a fair reason to invalidate the teaching or principle of tithe as found in the NT. Granting the "store" is no link to "storehouse", I could still see no reason why a Christian would leave the principle of tithing. The mere "absence" reasoning would leave us stalemate because there's not even one specific Apostolic command or order to abolished tithe. The fact of the absence of order or command to abolished tithes is foreign in the N.T. teaching, the principles of Christ doctrine or in the Apostles doctrine.

The so called "absence" gets even unfair to Apostle Paul making him a Liar. In Acts 20:35 Paul stated and as Luke wrote that to "...remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said. It is more blessed to give than to receive." The quotation from Christ by Apostle Paul is nowhere to be found in the 4 Gospels (Matthew, Mark, Luke and John). This does prove that Apostle Paul and writer Luke lying? A very certain answer is NO, your honor! If it is only basis "that these were no mentioned of the command from the Apostle" just to invalidate the tithe is far from the truth.

The principle of tithe was taught by Christ. Jesus taught even to the Pharissees yet not to leave the other weightier matters undone. But some will say Christ is teaching to the Pharisees and it is the tithe of mint? Well, we only limit our world that tithe is all about money. In the bible, spoils can be a source of tithe of Abraham, an animals, fruits or even vegetable.

Hebrews 7:4 Now consider how great this man was, unto whom even the patriarch Abraham gave the tenth of the spoils.

Again Abraham did tithe not even a single command from God. The absence of God's command did not invalidate Abraham to practice tithe.

Tithe was commenced by Abraham, yes it was incorporated in the Law 500 years later thus it was commanded by Moses and it was commended by our Lord Jesus. Yes, there's nothing new about tithing, oftentimes, what's new is not true.

God bless

I find it fascinating to see so many misused passages of Scripture in one post.
First and foremost, the Bereans studied Scripture to see if the Gospel of Jesus was correct.
They were not studying the use of tithing in the New Testament.
I don't think the principle of tithing is a problem here.
Teaching and practicing sound doctrine is the problem.
If one gives 10% from their heart, God blesses them.
If one gives more or less than 10% from their heart, God blesses them.
For us to make a determination which amount pleases God the most, then we are certainly Gods ourselves.
I don't put myself in that category.
The tithe cannot be a practice of the New Testament.
It is only an example of giving.
It is a Levitical Law that is no longer practiced by anyone Jew who understands Scripture.
It has nothing to do with Christianity.
Abraham gave a tenth of his spoils, never to give anything to anyone ever again.
Is that what we as Christians should be doing?
Giving God the spoils of war one time only and that's the end of it?
Christ taught the Pharisees about tithing because they were still under the Law.
End of story there.

When we start as Christians to sacrifice animals on the altar, that's when the tithe begins for us.

 

[AllenW]

Precious.

Paul, in Hebrews 7, did receive instructions about tithing from the Lord. That issue touches all people because it handles their wallets. That puts everyone on guard!

Paul brings up a fact that the Levites of Israel were deactivated concerning collection of tithes.

They were deactivated because the eternal priesthood in Christ replaced them. Jesus came by way of that eternal priesthood, by which also Melchizedek came, to whom Abraham tithed before the law commanded tithing 430 years later. The law from Moses commanded tithing for the good of Israel.

When the Levitical priesthood was abolished in Christ, tithing switched back to the eternal priesthood in Christ, instead of through the Levites. Tithing then resumed outside of Mosaic commandment.

Hebrews 7 explains that Jesus, who is of that eternal priesthood by which Melchizedek collecting tithes from mortal men came, now receives tithes of mortal men for the use of mortal men preaching the gospel of Christ.

Jesus is still receiving them. Heb 7:8

He only receives legitimate tithes that are submitted! He also blesses freewill giving according to what God puts on the hearts of disciples, and even of unbelievers, other than "dogs", those that live abominations.

When poor people apply faith, by faith tithing, God is obligated to apply the tithe blessing. When a congregation of tithers tithe regularly, they prosper even though they tithe few dollars. God has not rescinded the tithe blessing, but removed the curse of not tithing. People "chipping in" a few dollars regardless of what the Holy Spirit says can't possibly prosper from tithing 10% of their gain. They might benefit from "giving' alms, in the concept of a "loan" to God. God sees the "heart of man", and so blesses accordingly. It matters not whether the tithe is paid by commandment or by spiritual obedience. God honors the tithe, then he blesses alms. If we give "largely" to charity but neglect the weightier matters, there remains no blessing other than the immediate praise of men. A large gift regardless of tithe then makes the newspaper. Whatever praise then is from people, not God, so that commendation is dead when that newspaper is in the trash can. The quiet "secret" tithe is an eternal commendation from God, not to be known among mortal men who can't open the windows of heaven.

It is a false teaching that none of ancient Israel had to tithe unless a farmer. All "gain" was subject to the tithe. A silver mine owner was to tithe. So was a miner employee to tithe. A rocking chair maker was to tithe. An ancient real estate merchant was to tithe. A merchant marine shipper was to tithe. None were excluded.

This is false teaching, the teaching of an anti-christ.
No where in Scripture is tithing money, thus everything said here is a device to take your money from you.

 

[AllenW]

He pointed out that they tithe herbs but ignore God. Of course the Pharisees had to tithe to look good, whether having an agri business or not. Jesus even paid the temple tax, too.

Enough of this dodging the heart of the matter!

I see you won't touch Hebrews 7. Too bad.

Maybe this will ring a bell. I've been posting it for years, but none dare answer it if hating the concept of tithing, and detesting the supporting of a local congregation and all it takes to accommodate them.

This is the word of God through the apostle Paul to the Church:

1 Corinthians 9:3-14 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Mine answer to them that do examine me is this,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] Have we not power to eat and to drink?
[SUP]5 [/SUP] Have we not power to lead about a sister, a wife, as well as other apostles, and as the brethren of the Lord, and Cephas?
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Or I only and Barnabas, have not we power to forbear working?
[SUP]7 [/SUP] Who goeth a warfare any time at his own charges? who planteth a vineyard, and eateth not of the fruit thereof? or who feedeth a flock, and eateth not of the milk of the flock?
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Say I these things as a man? or saith not the law the same also?
[SUP]9 [/SUP] For it is written in the law of Moses, Thou shalt not muzzle the mouth of the ox that treadeth out the corn. Doth God take care for oxen?
[SUP]10 [/SUP] Or saith he it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written: that he that ploweth should plow in hope; and that he that thresheth in hope should be partaker of his hope.
[SUP]11 [/SUP] If we have sown unto you spiritual things, is it a great thing if we shall reap your carnal things?
[SUP]12 [/SUP] If others be partakers of this power over you, are not we rather? Nevertheless we have not used this power; but suffer all things, lest we should hinder the gospel of Christ.
[SUP]13 [/SUP] Do ye not know that they which minister about holy things live of the things of the temple? and they which wait at the altar are partakers with the altar?
[SUP]14 [/SUP] Even so hath the Lord ordained that they which preach the gospel should live of the gospel.

"Even so" means "no less". In like manner, nothing lacking between the two.

How did Israel, of which Paul was, support the mortal priesthood? By tithes and offerings. Even so, the Christian ministry ought not suffer lack due to less than the old manner of support.

Men that died received tithes and offerings of the people. Now Jesus, High Priest of the eternal order, receives tithes "in the spirit", by the hands of his ministers just like the mortal High Priest of the earthly priesthood (of Aaron). The high principle is not how Jesus does that from Heaven, but whether the Church supports or neglects it's ministers at the altar.

Thinking an uncertain "freewill" offering for maintenance of the Church ministry will be sufficient is folly. Offerings are "icing on the cake", not expected as far as how much at year's end. A solid accountable support base based on a system at least as reliable as the tithe bring honor to God. Want to give more than 10% of gain? Commit it to the pastor. In writing. Apply a little faith, be blessed.

What we are seeing now is an ever growing long line of beggars of money to pay their bills, all of them steadfastly refusing to commit a living for their church ministers they enjoy services of. They are the ones that have been self deceived to be happy over putting two dollars in the weekly collection bag. None admit tithing. They are against that, yet persistently in financial peril. All. They are the ones asking "Why" this is happening to them. Why is my home being repossessed"? Why have I been laid off due to two plant closings in 2015? Why, why, why.....

The Jews returning from Babylonian captivity asked such questions of Malachi 3. God allowed Israel to dribble the ball right past him, going off into slavery. Is America doing the same?

If you can't commit to support a local church, it's doubtful you have yielded to serve Jesus. Hate me for saying that, or thank me. Do that before the Lord.

You were showing a good debate until the end when you chose to judge your fellow Christians with a guilt trip.
It takes all credibility away from what you said.
Malachi 3 is between God and Israel and the Law of Moses.
Christianity has no place here.

 

[AllenW]

yes, no tithing is found in the ten commandments... it's from other parts of the law, imo...

true, abram tithed... though, abraham did lots of things I don't think are a good idea...

I think abram's tithing to melchezidek is a good idea... any other examples of abraham tithing? or does he just do it that once?

Really?
I thought Christians took the Sabbath out of the 10 Commandments and replaced it with tithing.

 

[AllenW]

I'm not sure who owns different parts of the booty in 20b... but abraham is giving to / returning to the king of Sodom.

Abraham gathered slaves.
Did he give 10% of his slaves as well?

 

[AllenW]

quick question: if Jesus said we should do something, should we do it? of course we should and twice in the N.T he said we should tithe but not leave the weightier matters of the law undone
Matthew 23:23 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye pay tithe of mint and anise and cummin, and have omitted the weightier matters of the law, judgment, mercy, and faith: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.
[HR][/HR] Luke 11:42 (KJV)
[SUP]42 [/SUP] But woe unto you, Pharisees! for ye tithe mint and rue and all manner of herbs, and pass over judgment and the love of God: these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Keep it in context.
He was talking to Jews under the Law.
The next time we become Jews under the Law, we should tithe.

 

[AllenW]

I was preaching a campmeeting years ago in florida of all places and mentioned tithing in my sermon when a gentlemen in the back spoke out loud to some young people and said "that's not in the bible, that was a mosaic law" of course the young people told me.

the next night while preaching I said "some of the young people told me about a "tightwad" who spoke outloud and said tithing was a mosaic law" I said "Abraham tithed and he lived 400 years before moses and further more Abraham's name before tithing was abram, after he tithed God hung the ham on him and called him abraham.

Lol, funny how some people say foolish things, then disappear from the forum...

 

[AllenW]

We can argue all day long about whether we use the word tithe or not.

One thing is that we should be hapy and joyful givers to God.. plus, who do you think pays (in church)the electric bill (you do like to be warm in the winter ?), water charges, waste disposal. building maintenance, toilet roll/tissue, who's paying for the seats you sit in, stipends etc .

When I hear someone say we shouldnt tithe or pay, I hear someone looking to free load. and thats before we even get to the seriouse heart issue. so is it 10% well no one is forcing you..yet tell a good reason why you don't want to.

Just my 2 pennies worth.

That's anti-extra biblical stuff you're talking.
Shall we get down to the real nitty gritty?
How did the Jews pay for the upkeep of the Temple?

 

[AllenW]

Hi sir,

The agricultural tithe arguments end here because Abraham tithes on a spoil...is there amendment from the original spoil into agricultural? There's none! Is then agricultural wrong? Not really...

God bless

Are you finally walking away from this thread?
Don't go!
You still have a chance to win.
Believe in yourself.
Go for it.
I think you've got what it takes to fight til the end!

 

[AllenW]

Numbers 31:29 Take it of their half, and give it unto Eleazar the priest, for an heave offering of the LORD.

Numbers 31: 32 And the booty, being the rest of the prey which the men of war had caught, was six hundred thousand and seventy thousand and five thousand sheep,

Numbers 31:37 And the LORD'S tribute of the sheep was six hundred and threescore and fifteen.
Numbers 31: 41 And Moses gave the tribute, which was the LORD'S heave offering, unto Eleazar the priest, as the LORD commanded Moses.

Hi,
The issue is tithe Agricultural only? As I have written Abram paid on booty too. So the agricultural tithe only is simply not true.

Like “Bereans” as said, Numbers 31 has nothing to do with tithes. It’s all about giving of “…tribute, which was the LORD’s heave offering…

He cares,

Romans 12:6;
"We have different gifts, according to the grace given us."
Romans 12:8b;
"if it is contributing to the needs of others, let him give generously".

As you can see, giving is a gift.
Not everyone has it.
To tell someone they need to give when their gift is something else, is wrong.
You should look to build up the body of Christ, nothing else.

 

[AllenW]

oh... my sir, I have read, post it, the point is money can be use instead of the agri-product for the reason of distance. The RECORD is there.

Thanks,

Lol, you funny!
How can anyone discuss with you when you respond as a child?

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

You were showing a good debate until the end when you chose to judge your fellow Christians with a guilt trip.
It takes all credibility away from what you said.
Malachi 3 is between God and Israel and the Law of Moses.
Christianity has no place here.

Malachi 3 is between God and Israel and the Law of Moses. ...and there were 3 types of tithes, too. People who want to use Malachi 3 need to be giving 3 types of tithes...which is not just 10%.