Tongues???

[garee]

Why is it that when cessationists read about 'tongues of men and of angels' most of them INSIST it must be hyperbole, but when they read chapter 12, some of them insist that there was someone cursing Christ? Paul is giving 'extremes' in both cases. He says that no one curses Christ by the Holy Ghost and noone says "Jesus is Lord" but by the Holy Ghost. He's giving two extreme examples.

Tongues are a sign to those who believe not , prophecy for those who are given the faith of Christ needed to believe God.

It’s a law not subject to change, that today some men who are trusting in tongues as something we could do, must ignore that law at all costs.

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

There are many reasons that men do not want tongues to cease. Just as in the same way their hope is prophecy has not ceased. They desire more than what God has revealed.

The main reason, I would offer is they are looking to experience something that they can perform as a work, as a way of saying they have the "fullness of the Spirit", as if the He gave a partial amount . And the fullness was not one of the better things that accompany salvation, and men must work to receive the fullness of it.

It’s the same thing the unbelieving Jew, they did required as sign before they would believe God. This in the end is simply self-insurance, and produces self-righteousness. Especially knowing God is no longer bringing any new revelations. His revealed will , being sealed up till the end of time, with a warning not to add to it now that we no longer have it in part..

When we look at the law found in chapter 14 that defines the use of tongues as prophecy.(no difference)The adding to the word of God shows any new prophecy will fail seeing it is not of God. Therefore because tongues is prophecy, it will cease and has. The idea of any new knowledge vanishes away.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Co 13:8

I think the question we should ask is; are tongues from men as the things of men or of God as those belonging to God?

 

[HisHolly]

AAsk for wisdom, you twist and teach wrongly.. Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have.. you either believe it or you don't believe anything is settled.. anything that appears to say otherwise, seek to understand.. Jesus wouldn't say it's for us and epistles later it's ceased? Humans make God look double-minded

Tongues are a sign to those who believe not , prophecy for those who are given the faith of Christ needed to believe God.

It’s a law not subject to change, that today some men who are trusting in tongues as something we could do, must ignore that law at all costs.

1Co 14:22 Wherefore tongues are for a sign, not to them that believe, but to them that believe not: but prophesying serveth not for them that believe not, but for them which believe.

There are many reasons that men do not want tongues to cease. Just as in the same way their hope is prophecy has not ceased. They desire more than what God has revealed.

The main reason, I would offer is they are looking to experience something that they can perform as a work, as a way of saying they have the "fullness of the Spirit", as if the He gave a partial amount . And the fullness was not one of the better things that accompany salvation, and men must work to receive the fullness of it.

It’s the same thing the unbelieving Jew, they did required as sign before they would believe God. This in the end is simply self-insurance, and produces self-righteousness. Especially knowing God is no longer bringing any new revelations. His revealed will , being sealed up till the end of time, with a warning not to add to it now that we no longer have it in part..

When we look at the law found in chapter 14 that defines the use of tongues as prophecy.(no difference)The adding to the word of God shows any new prophecy will fail seeing it is not of God. Therefore because tongues is prophecy, it will cease and has. The idea of any new knowledge vanishes away.

Charity never faileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away. For we know in part, and we prophesy in part. But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. Co 13:8

I think the question we should ask is; are tongues from men as the things of men or of God as those belonging to God?

 

[HisHolly]

4 makers or things to distinguish believers.. What are they? They don't change ever..

 

[notuptome]

AAsk for wisdom, you twist and teach wrongly.. Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have.. you either believe it or you don't believe anything is settled.. anything that appears to say otherwise, seek to understand.. Jesus wouldn't say it's for us and epistles later it's ceased? Humans make God look double-minded

Jesus never spoke in tongues nor did He ever command His disciples to speak or pray in tongues.

It is blatantly obvious that you are claiming something that is not supported in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that tongues which were a gift given by the Holy Spirit as He wills not man wills were going to end, cease when the bible was completed. 1 Cor 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[garee]

AAsk for wisdom, you twist and teach wrongly.. Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have.. you either believe it or you don't believe anything is settled.. anything that appears to say otherwise, seek to understand..

Yes would have not continue to have.

Scriptures are clear. They do the untwisting.

Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have up until new prophecy ceased.

Jesus wouldn't say it's for us and epistles later it's ceased? Humans make God look double-minded.

Makes it look like He had a purpose for adding up until that we which we did have in part and now have the whole. With no laws missing by which we could know Him more intimately.

Do you need more than he has revealed in order to have the fullness of His Holy Spirit?

Is God still adding to His word or is that plausibility sealed up till the end of time.

Tongues of God or of men? We cannot serve two masters.

 

[HisHolly]

You don't line up with how I know God operates in my life as well as others.. So I have to dismiss your 'correction' ..

Yes would have not continue to have.

Scriptures are clear. They do the untwisting.

Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have up until new prophecy ceased.



Makes it look like He had a purpose for adding up until that we which we did have in part and now have the whole. With no laws missing by which we could know Him more intimately.

Do you need more than he has revealed in order to have the fullness of His Holy Spirit?

Is God still adding to His word or is that plausibility sealed up till the end of time.

Tongues of God or of men? We cannot serve two masters.

 

[HisHolly]

I'd say yeah, when has God ever fully revealed Himself? Never.. He's too much and you think He stopped with the letters to the churches? You're nobody I can entertain anymore. You can't possibly understand BC you have set God as being done until further notice.. Do enjoy your day

 

[Demi777]

Theres no proof that he never spoke in tongues, nor that he ever did.

Jesus never spoke in tongues nor did He ever command His disciples to speak or pray in tongues.

It is blatantly obvious that you are claiming something that is not supported in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that tongues which were a gift given by the Holy Spirit as He wills not man wills were going to end, cease when the bible was completed. 1 Cor 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

Theres no proof that he never spoke in tongues, nor that he ever did.

But Jesus did speak to the people with compassion and in a language they could understand. Jesus opened the scriptures to them in a way that no other prophet or teacher had ever done. Jesus prayed with such passion that His disciples besought Him to teach them to pray.

If tongues were so important or so vital to our knowledge of God you would think that Jesus would have demonstrated them to the apostles and disciples while He walked with them.

Tongues were certainly a warning to Israel that they had erred in rejecting Jesus as their Messiah.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[notuptome]

I'd say yeah, when has God ever fully revealed Himself? Never.. He's too much and you think He stopped with the letters to the churches? You're nobody I can entertain anymore. You can't possibly understand BC you have set God as being done until further notice.. Do enjoy your day

Hebrews 1:1 ¶ God, who at sundry times and in divers manners spake in time past unto the fathers by the prophets,
2 Hath in these last days spoken unto us by his Son, whom he hath appointed heir of all things, by whom also he made the worlds;
3 Who being the brightness of his glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;

Revelation complete in Jesus Christ made evident by the Holy Spirit.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VCO]

I'm confident that you are not surprised at the responses of the Pentecostal and charismatics that are here on CC. You have done a fine job on the paper you have graciously given to the readers here on CC.

Thank you.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

No I am not surprised, and "there is nothing new under the sun." I have been been through so many heated debates on the subject, that I almost choose to ignore them all together. But I have to remind myself, God did not have me do that extensive study, just for my curiosity; but to edify and encourage others.

 

[garee]

You don't line up with how I know God operates in my life as well as others.. So I have to dismiss your 'correction' ..

I think He operates by and through a work of His faith ,working in the heart of the believer. I am simply offering my private interpretation of what I think He teaches us. Every man has an opinion like fingerprints a little different then another.

It is not myself in whom you must place your faith .If we dismiss His correction then what?

I would be careful on how we hear. Like the scriptures inform us we never know if we are entertaining a messenger of God,a brother or sister in Christ, since all of His gifts are two fold .Both could need what the other is offering ,to mutually work together. .

 

[HisHolly]

I understand not to trust man that's why your opinion is dismissed. Not all have opinions, some are taught by HS BC we have relationship. Whenever someone on here says 'i think or I believe ' followed by what's being said or taught, flashing light they have not heard from God on the matter... I don't ever believe those people.. Those who hear from God, I do BC I know what He is like.. recognition

I think He operates by and through a work of His faith ,working in the heart of the believer. I am simply offering my private interpretation of what I think He teaches us every man has an opinion like fingerprints a little difefrent then another.

It is no myself in whom you must place your faith .If we dismiss His correction then what?

I would be careful on how we hear. Like the scriptures inform us we never know if we are entertaining a messenger of God,a brother or sister in Christ, since all of His gifts are two fold .Both could need what the other is offering ,to mutually work together. .

 

[VCO]

AAsk for wisdom, you twist and teach wrongly.. Tongues are something Jesus said a believer would have.. you either believe it or you don't believe anything is settled.. anything that appears to say otherwise, seek to understand.. Jesus wouldn't say it's for us and epistles later it's ceased? Humans make God look double-minded

1 Corinthians 13:8 (NKJV)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] Love never fails. But whether there are prophecies, they will fail; whether there are tongues, they will cease; whether there is knowledge, it will vanish away.

It did cease shortly after the New Testament was completed, and the modern day ecstatic utterances started in 1906. If you want to believe it is the same thing as the Apostles did, that is not factual, but no big deal. In fact Tongues when it was the real McCoy, was the least important empowerment from the Spirit. How do we know that? Jews when they made a list always put the most important first and the least important last.

1 Corinthians 12:28 (ESV)
[SUP]28 [/SUP] And God has appointed in the church first apostles, second prophets, third teachers, then miracles, then gifts of healing, helping, administrating, and various kinds of tongues.

NOTICE, it therefore is more important to be spiritually gifted to be Church Secretary than it ever was to speak in tongues.

 

[garee]

I understand not to trust man that's why your opinion is dismissed. Not all have opinions, some are taught by HS BC we have relationship. Whenever someone on here says 'i think or I believe ' followed by what's being said or taught, flashing light they have not heard from God on the matter... I don't ever believe those people.. Those who hear from God, I do BC I know what He is like.. recognition

I understand not to trust man that's why your opinion is dismissed.

Yes. we must not have the faith of Christ in respect to the opinions of men (law of the fathers) We have the hearing of Christ's faith according to Him. We are not to lean on our own understanding or the understanding as private interpretations of others.

That’s why every mans private interpretation is dismissed as the one source of faith .

Not all have opinions, some are taught by HS BC we have relationship

.

It all we have is opinions. Again we are not the author of faith, and God whose name which is Jealous will not share the glory that comes from hearing His voice with the creature.

All of God’s truth in which we have our opinions we offer have to do with following the commandment to study in order to seek His approval. We are not to have faith in our opinions and therefore measure faith according to our own selves.

Whenever someone on here says 'i think or I believe ' followed by what's being said or taught, flashing light they have not heard from God on the matter... I don't ever believe those people.. Those who hear from God, I do BC I know what He is like.. recognition

The flashing red light should come on seeing some say we must have men to teach us,the method of operation for the antichrists.

We are not to have the faith of Christ generated by hearing God in respect to measuring it by men. If we do we should expect I believe as it reads.....

Fill ye up then the measure of your fathers. Ye serpents, ye generation of vipers, how can ye escape the damnation of hell? Mat 23:32

It’s a must for the Catholic denomination. Are tongues of God or of men seeing no man can serve two masters?

 

[stonesoffire]

Jesus never spoke in tongues nor did He ever command His disciples to speak or pray in tongues.

It is blatantly obvious that you are claiming something that is not supported in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that tongues which were a gift given by the Holy Spirit as He wills not man wills were going to end, cease when the bible was completed. 1 Cor 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger

Eli Eli - Hebrew

Sabachthani- ancient Chaldee.

It had to be interpreted.

 

[notuptome]

Eli Eli - Hebrew

Sabachthani- ancient Chaldee.

It had to be interpreted.

Thanks for the chuckle. That would hardly pass for tongues in the modern church. All of the original manuscripts require and interpreter we call them translators today.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[VCO]

Jesus never spoke in tongues nor did He ever command His disciples to speak or pray in tongues.

It is blatantly obvious that you are claiming something that is not supported in the bible. In fact the bible clearly states that tongues which were a gift given by the Holy Spirit as He wills not man wills were going to end, cease when the bible was completed. 1 Cor 13:8

For the cause of Christ
Roger

In fact Roger, when it comes to the false claim of a "Private Prayer Language", I do believe Jesus directly spoke against it.

In the worship of Zues, if I remember right, either way it was one of those Mystery Religions, they taught their members to pray in a private prayer language this way: "Say batta, batta, batta over and over again as fast as you can, and the gods will turn it into a prayer language only they can understand." And what is real spooky, is the Louisiana Pentecostal Church that my wife grew up in, they taught their parishioners to learn a private prayer language by saying: "Say Jesus, Jesus, Jesus over and over again as fast as you can and God will turn it into a prayer language only He can understand." I am not stretching the truth, I repeated that pagan method to my wife, and she gasped, and told me that story and that is exactly how they were taught to do it.

I absolutely believe the GENUINE Gift of TONGUES was purely a miracle, needed at that time for GOD's purposes. Anything you can PRACTICE AT WILL, is not a miracle.

Almost all of us know that logeo is WORD or WORDS in the Greek. Now look at this word:

Matthew 6:7 (HCSB)
[SUP]7 [/SUP] When you pray, don’t babble{ battalogeô } like the idolaters, since they imagine they’ll be heard for their many words.

I think that clearly is a reference to the Pagan use of ecstatic utterences that they called praying in tongues.

 

[RickyZ]

That is because the purpose Tongues in the Church in Corinth, was not yet fulfilled and neither was the New Testament. Not only was the Church at Corinth attracting many out of the pagan religions, they were converting many Jews, who were hearing the genuine speakers of tongues proclaim the mighty works of GOD in their own dialectos.


1 Corinthians 14:21-22 (NIV)
[SUP]21 [/SUP] In the Law it is written: "Through men of strange tongues and through the lips of foreigners I will speak to this people, but even then they will not listen to me," says the Lord.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Tongues, then, are a sign, not for believers but for unbelievers; prophecy, however, is for believers, not for unbelievers.

THAT is not being done today. Tongues were for Unbelieving Jews. And the primary meaning of prophecy back then, only meant to proclaim the word of GOD without error.

Mark 16:20 (NIV)
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Then the disciples went out and preached everywhere, and the Lord worked with them and confirmed his word by the signs that accompanied it.

Jews were not about to accept the New Testament without the God given signs, like the Prophets did.

But, the thing is, if your interpretation is right then why do I see so many people who do it according to God's directions, and receive or pass on the things God said they would receive or pass on by doing so? The proof is in the pudding, and the pudding very clearly shows that you are mistaken.

 

[RickyZ]

Humans make God look double-minded

Yeah. Do they really believe that God is the same yesterday, today, and forever, oh except for this???