WE ARE CLEAN

eternally-gratefull · Oct 19, 2016

1. God is the surgeon, I am the patient
2. God is the pilot, I am the passenger
3. God is the directer, the leader, I just follow him (seek the things of the spirit)

No Peter. I do not need lists. No list can make me worthy of righteous living or Gods love or being granted entrance into his family for all eternity.

God gave a list. and said you want to get to me by your works, Here, Obey these things perfectly, Fall in one area, no matter how slight, and your guilty and under a curse (death)

And lists will never make me a righteous person in my life. God said seek after the spirit. To love him and our neighbor, in this the law is fulfilled. I do not need to look at lists. I need to look to who God wants me to serve. and always be outward focused. Only in this will I live a righteous life.

Actually Peter. You do not understand the power of lists. The one list God gave you and demanded you be perfect at, You failed. as has every other man woman and child who walked the earth, Only Christ could keep this list. and it caused him his death and the cross.

Yet you make up your own list, which falls short of Gods list. then demand that is what makes you a holy righteous person. When you reject that Gods list condemns you to hell! and you can not even see it!

gb9 · Oct 19, 2016

PeterJens said:

making a formula for salvation is heresy. we are saved by belief in Christ. for whosoever believes in him shall be saved..... who does not believe shall be condemned.......... peter told the jailer believe in the Lord Jesus and you will be saved........

no list needed. your list should be tossed out in yesterday's trash.

Bookends · Oct 19, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

It started as healing, Jesus healed the leper. Although I think the two are closely related, I think you should re-read the OP.

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

Everyone is entitled to believe what they want about healing from the Lord. I have posted where Christ came to do the will of the Father and that He healed everyone that came to Him.

There is no scripture that says that Jesus refused to heal anyone. NOT one. The scripture reveals the very opposite of that. But we can ignore Jesus's life if we choose.

And the theory that Isiah 53 is talking about our sins being healed and not a physical healing is just a theory.

Here is what this theory is saying : "Peter, conversely, saw the "healing" in Isa. 53 as being metaphorical and thus referring to the healing of our sin sickness."

Ok...let's look at the Greek word for healing in 1 Peter 2:24

1 Peter 2:24 (NASB)
[SUP]24 [/SUP] and He Himself bore our sins in His body on the cross, so that we might die to sin and live to righteousness; for by His wounds you were healed.

Let's take a look at all the times this Greek word for "healing" was used.

Well....there are so many but I will just use a few as you will very soon see the point.

Matthew 8:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] But the centurion said, "Lord, I am not worthy for You to come under my roof, but just say the word, and my servant will be healed.

- ( I suppose we "could" say that the servant's healing was "metaphorical " )

Mark 5:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] Immediately the flow of her blood was dried up; and she felt in her body that she was healed of her affliction.

- ( I suppose we "could" say that her healing was "metaphorical " )

Luke 6:19 (NASB)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And all the people were trying to touch Him, for power was coming from Him and healing them all.

- ( I suppose we "could" say that Jesus healing them all was "metaphorical " )

Luke 6:17 (KJV)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] And he came down with them, and stood in the plain, and the company of his disciples, and a great multitude of people out of all Judaea and Jerusalem, and from the sea coast of Tyre and Sidon, which came to hear him, and to be healed of their diseases;

- ( I suppose we "could" say that Jesus healing them all of their diseases was "metaphorical " )

Luke 8:47 (KJV)
[SUP]47 [/SUP] And when the woman saw that she was not hid, she came trembling, and falling down before him, she declared unto him before all the people for what cause she had touched him, and how she was healed immediately.

- ( I suppose we "could" say that her healing was "metaphorical " )

Acts 9:34 (NASB)
[SUP]34 [/SUP] Peter said to him, "Aeneas, Jesus Christ heals you; get up and make your bed." Immediately he got up.

- ( I suppose we "could" say that his healing was "metaphorical " and he took up a metaphorical bed )

Ok..that is enough but there are tons more......so, if people want to believe that healing is metaphorical when it is describing the work of Christ - then that is their decision. BUT to call other people heretics and ignorant of God's word that do believe God wants to heal us and that it is part of Christ's work for us is not wise and it causes strife, division and bitterness.

As I have shown in post # 127 that the man listening to the gospel being preached - had faith to be healed. Where did he get this faith from?

Here is the post that shows this out.

http://christianchat.com/bible-discussion-forum/142826-we-clean-7.html#post2838838

I am not going to call anyone a heretic or any other derogatory name because you choose to believe healing is not for us in Christ.

I can understand the malice that some may have towards others because of very negative past experiences where people judged them just because the were sick. This was a horrible way to treat someone that is hurting.

We are to have respect and honor for each other. Those people in the past were not acting in a Christ-like manner. Let's endeavor to walk by the Spirit now and we are allowed to have different viewpoints on some subjects too.

That is all I am going to say about the subject of healing and others are entitled to have a different view.

Don't let anyone - including me try to "lord over" your beliefs either by calling you names or insults about your faith in loving Savior and Lord an about the goodness of your Father.

I think this scripture sums up how we can have different beliefs before our Lord and within ourselves too.

Romans 14:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22[/SUP] The faith which you have, have as your own conviction before God. Happy is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 19, 2016

Bookends said:

I stand corrected. Thank you..

ughh!!

God does not promise anyone physical healing, Does he heal? Yes, I have witnessed it myself But will he heal? thats in his court, and if a person is not healed we should not complain or blame God, or (as I have witnessed far to many times) blame the person of being in sin, or not having enough "faith" in God.

Those things give God a bad name, I pray the op was not directed in this way, And was speaking of our spiritual healing. But I guess I am not sure now.

But I will say again, Physical healing is not part of the gospel of Christ. If it was so, everyone who was saved would never get sick again.

ladylynn · Oct 19, 2016

Some years ago I never believed that there was healing in Christ for us. I didn't believe in the gifts of the Holy Spirit for the church either. We were taught that they all ceased. That was the kind of Christian teaching our family was raised in. We listened to preachers who believed like us and we hung out with Christians that believed the same way we did. We were sure of our interpretation of the Bible and also believed that those who were unlike us were not of us.

We were taught not to fellowship with those kinds of so called Christians and to be verrrrry wary of them for they were emotionally troubled individuals caught up in a heretical doctrine of demons.

The enemy effectively for many years used this human logic to cause a religious prejudice that caused division and lack of power in the church. We were taught not to fellowship with those who even knew such Christians. So it was called "secondary separation" Don't fellowship with those who fellowship with those kind of Christians.

Well, today some 20 years later I'm one of "those" kinds of Christians. I see clearly the error of my ways back then and can so appreciate the fervor with which some here fight against other Christians.
And I can also say it is not of God. Division is not of Jesus. He is the Lord of love and reconciliation.

We are to love one another in the body of Christ and seek to be salt and light in a dark world. Jesus is our Rock and our victory. We are called to love one another as Christ has loved us. The Holy Spirit is able to bring right doctrine into the lives of His people. Let Him do His job., Trust Him to do the teaching and guiding of fellow brothers and sisters in Christ. He is able to do it.

nowyouseem033 · Oct 19, 2016

ladylynn said:

What a bunch of nonsense. Not complete nonsense but in large part nonsense. Physical infirmities take place all the time amongst Christians. Sickness, Disabilities, etc and yet he makes no attempt to answer why this takes place in peoples lives. He goes on to say what we must do yet he doesnt say what the cause root is due too. Its not that hard of an answer... Its the curse and the fallen world we are apart of that causes us to die by way of decay or sickness or old age or whatever.

Again this poorly educated man (at least in the scriptures) FAILS to make a distinction between spiritual healing and physical healing. Isaiah 53:4-5 he quotes is not in reference whatsoever to physical healing but is talking of the coming Christ our Saviour and how he will restore our SPIRITUAL condition. Spiritually healing is what is of CONCERN in this passage and its spiritual healing where Christ has made available to us.

Continuing from the above note he says God is waiting for a priesthood when in fact he HAS a priesthood and going around pronouncing yourself clean from physical infirmities is really quite foolish. I am currently nursing an injury from sports at the moment and announcing that im healed from it is simply delusional and foolish. Unfortunately there exists today amongst christians the idea that you can be healed by the increase of faith. Again total disregards for what it means to be eternally saved. All those who are wearing glasses whilst reading this post should increase your faith so you can have clear and complete sight and no need for glasses. This comes from a form of new age teachings and positive thinking charms, which are not biblical.

Then he ends with a terrible statement. Pronounce yourself clean. What kind of new testament statement is that? It is by Gods Word not our words where our understanding of who we are come from and by Gods Word where we recognise who we are in Christ. Then he says do this put your hand n your heart blah blah blah. Even worse is when he says "and pronounce good things over your life". NO how about pray to God for your needs and be content in his salvation he has provided.

What a self inverted understanding of scripture. Always looking for self-fulfillment whilst ignoring the call to self-denial.

ladylynn · Oct 19, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

Well you see brother, healing is part of my life each day. So I do believe in physical healing as well as emotional and spiritual healing. It comes at times all at once but most often it comes some 10 fold, some 20 fold, some 50 fold some 90 fold some 100% fold. It's a life style of living in the promises for many believers.

The more we learn about Jesus and what He has done for us, the more we are able to walk in the promises. Everyone who is saved is not aware of all the promises. And those like me who were saved back in the days I want to a church that did not believe in healing., didn't apply faith to those Bible truths so we did not ever see healing. We didn't expect it nor did we believe for it. So it was not part of our Christian life.

It is very true that the truth will set us free but we have to first believe it for it to even begin to make a difference in our lives. We have so much more to learn and will never be able to say "I have arrived"
The grace of God in Christ is like an ocean. I've been to the ocean and it seems limitless to my human eyes. But actually it does have it's limits. But God's love and grace and power does not have any limits.
And that is the kind of Jesus we serve.

PeterJens · Oct 19, 2016

gb9 said:

I think you have just destroyed your own argument. A formula is just a road map, it
describes something. If you have no road map the thing does not exist.

Let me give you an example. I call a piece of rock Christ.
I then say we are saved by belief in Christ ( a piece of rock )

Now you have to say no, that is not what I mean. Christ is, and then a long description
flows as to who and what Christ is.

As soon as you reduce faith down to just a few words, and stop you have lost everything.
The bible is the size it is because knowing God is vast, like the whole of His creation.

And you are quoting how to enter salvation, the door, not the walk.
It is obvious you do not know the Lord at all to talk like this.

Why did it take 3 years for the disciples to know Christ as the son of God?
Because it is not simple, it is about everything and ourselves and our lives and our walk.

Now if you knew this you would not even be having this conversation.
But the reason I am is to shine a light on the total ignorance of God being shown here.

heavenly_bound · Oct 19, 2016

Gr8grace said:

ON the contrary we have to site our union with Christ to God and not our "sins"! We have to agree with God on what He has done with us in Christ!!

The only remedy for "sin" is acknowledging who we are in Christ, by acknowledging every good thing that is in us which is in Him; not the other way round!

" That the communication of they faith ( effectual faith) may become effectual by the acknowledging of every good thing which is in you in Christ Jesus" Philemon 6 (KJV)

ladylynn · Oct 19, 2016

It's an awesome thing to believe Jesus for all things in life. From the time you get up in the morning and prepare for the day till the time you go to bed. Even in those seemingly simple things we are in the middle of a spiritual reality that God is working in the lives of men. We are in the world as His sons and daughters and we effect those we come in contact with because we do have the Holy Spirit and we do have a heavenly Father and an amazing Savior.

The Bible is full of admonishions to walk in the calling for which you were called. Our world is full of death and sickness and sin. We see it every where we go and it's pronounced over and over with words of all those around us. We are ambassadors for Christ and are told to be salt and light in the world.

We are told to speak peace and that our words should always be seasoned with salt. Words matter and we can bless the day with our words or curse it. Words have power in our lives. They convince our mind and change those around us.

If you go to work and there is a gossip who loves to gossip. Do you know you can effectively bring salt and light into the situation by following Jesus ways by your words? I've done it many times and gossip is not spoken where I am anymore. God has given us authority in so many areas that we think are not important and that the enemy has convinced us we are helpless in.

Beginning to think about what your thinking about. Realize we don't have to be what the world says we are but we are what Christ has made us. Sons and daughters of God. Reconciled and we bring the message of reconciliation to those we come in contact with. Out of darkness into His marvelous light.

heavenly_bound · Oct 19, 2016

ladylynn said:

well said! The point is that we do not see that healing (what ever form it maybe) is already a done deal; its already ours in Christ! We just need to acknowledge it!

We were reconciled to the father at the cross but the Father would have stop there; but no He didn't! He came to live inside of Us so as to save us daily from any Adamic tendency until we possess all what Christ purchased for us!

ladylynn · Oct 19, 2016

heavenly_bound said:

This is a hard thing for many believers to come to. It sounds impossible because we see the ugly in the world and it's a real thing. As we walk in the world and deal with these issues., we do it FROM a place of victory that Jesus already secured for us. We have victory and it is come to be real when we walk by faith and not by sight. Amen sis.

Hebrews 11:1
11 Now faith is the assurance (the confirmation, [SUP][a][/SUP]the title deed) of the things [we] hope for, being the proof of things [we] do not see and the conviction of their reality [faith perceiving as real fact what is not revealed to the senses].

This is our calling., to walk by faith and not by sight.

We work out what Jesus has worked IN. The Bible says to work out your own salvation with fear and trembling. That means we work OUT what Jesus has given us with diligence and seriousness of mind and with JOY like the woman who was healed by Jesus and she feared and trembled for the awe of it all.

We have not been given the spirit of fear., but of power and love and a sound mind. Those things are in us now and we must work them out by the faith to be effectual in our daily lives. We are growing in the grace and knowledge of our Lord Jesus Christ each day as He transforms us by the renewing of our minds.

eternally-gratefull · Oct 19, 2016

ladylynn said:

To anyone who is healed. I praise God. And if God healed you. I praise him and understand your excitement, I would praise God too if I was you.

To anyone who is telling people they WILL be healed..all they need to do is trust God.... I warn, God does not promise healing.. It is dangerous to tell a person if they are not healed they do not have faith, or enough faith.

I have seen with great prayer of the body of Christ God heal people miraculously. I have seen with the same great prayer God not heal people of sickness, or cancer, or whatever disease.

I do not know why God heals some and not others. That is not for me to decide. I have to just trust God.

When we pray for healing, we always pray, Father we pray for your healing, We KNOW you are the great physician, But we pray also in your will, We will accept Gods grace either way.. Because God knows best..

PeterJens · Oct 19, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

This is a legalists way of looking at life. God never gave me a list because I knew I was
a sinner from the beginning. I knew my thoughts were wrong, just looking this way or that
I approached it all wrong, and did not know how to be different as I desired.

And the issue has always been about love and appreciation of the blessing God has given us.
It is so much a different picture, which is why the cross speaks to me, the wounds in Jesus's
side and His crown of thorns, taken so that I might be free, Amen, what a glorious King.

I am always amazed at the Lord, and His heart, to stoop down to us and to listen, what a
father. I have tried to be that type of father to my kids.

So me creating a list of biblical principles in following Jesus I am doomed to hell.
Sounds like a sad joke.

Do you realise every item is a biblical principle upon which our faith is built?
Reject any one point and you are rejecting Christ.

Stephen63 · Oct 19, 2016

eternally-gratefull said:

There you go..... you just didn't want to find it. Any child could.....

Stephen63 · Oct 19, 2016

Grace777x70 said:

You're hypergrace & you still repent? Just how do you follow your doctrine & do that?

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

Originally Posted by Grace777x70

I love to repent when I see new truths of the love and grace of Christ for us.

Stephen63 said:

Unfortunately this just proves you don't know what grace folk actually do say or believe about "repentance".

Perhaps this is the source of the malice that some have towards others?

Here is a good resource to find out the "truth" if you are interested in that. This way there will be no need for anyone to slander others as they will know the truth about what is really being said.

Look at objection #3.

Why I am Hyper-Grace: Answering Five Common Objections

InSpiritInTruth · Oct 19, 2016

Stephen63 said:

They have re-translated (twisted) it's meaning through JP's distorted "lens", here's proof--->>>

Grace777x70 · Oct 19, 2016

I love it when you take my posts out of context as it gives me another change to preach Christ. Thank you!

I'll post the rest of my post to show what is being said. Although I must say you are consistent in your deceitful way of only putting up parts of people's posts to give it that "one-sided view" in order to distort what is really being said.

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