Obesity/overweight among Chrisitans

[JosephsDreams]

Animals were not given by God to us as food until after the flood.

Not even then M. It was a concession. We were already eating meat. It wasn't that God after the flood said okay, go and eat meat now. No, we were doing it. It is no different then Israel planning to install a king. God didn't want them to do it, but they insisted. God knew they were going to, so He made a concession. He told Samuel not to be downcast. They were rejecting God, not Samuel.
That is another subject though. We all reject God in some form or another. Eating meat is just another form of ignoring his original command about diet.

 

[JosephsDreams]

After the flood, God told mankind to eat meat. (Genesis 9:2-3)
Jesus fed the multitudes fish and bread. (Matthew 14:17-21)
Jesus ate fish (Luke 24:42-43) and Passover lamb (Luke 22:8-15)
In Peter's vision, Jesus declared all foods to be clean, including animals (Acts 10:10-15)

Jesus ate fish likely because He was just honoring the times and customs as God seems want to do with us. He also waited until 30 to start His ministry. Does anyone believe He needed to wait until then? But is was rabbinical custom.
He knew His time was short. He also knew that it was not the creators original plan for the creation.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Nor do you.


I agree


Me, too! Man, you and I have so much in common


Gladly!



My point in this is....you are doing exactly what you are mad at us about.

I love health. I love fitness. That isn't going to change. Sorry!

Just because you read on it doesn't mean I didn't. Like you, I also know a lot about health. But, because of our different beliefs in what we should eat, we differ. The difference between you and I is....I don't care what you do with your life in health. But, you are getting so worked up over mine. We can just agree to disagree

Also......

[video=youtube;z0O_VYcsIk8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0O_VYcsIk8[/video]

I have seen that video. I admit, its funny. Most vegans and/or raw foodists don't act like that though. It is only a small vocal minority.

 

[AuntieAnt]

Jesus ate fish likely because He was just honoring the times and customs as God seems want to do with us. He also waited until 30 to start His ministry. Does anyone believe He needed to wait until then? But is was rabbinical custom.
He knew His time was short. He also knew that it was not the creators original plan for the creation.

It's not what goes into the body that defiles it. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.

We're told not to worry about what we eat or drink.

 

[JosephsDreams]

All I know it that I'm in pretty good shape, that I had meat and dairy when I was losing weight, and I'm having it putting on muscle and good weight. And I would question anyone that told me not to lol. It's also common knowledge that certain professional athletes have lost energy and become injury prone after going away from those things(Hello, Arian Foster).

I've talked to shineyourlight many times in the past about fitness, etc. and seen her offer advice to others and it's always been good advice that pointed toward a healthy lifestyle. Maybe not the lifestyle others choose for themselves, but still a healthy one.

Its not the way to go in the long term BW. Just about everyone I know, or know of, or have counseled, has developed health issues starting generally in their late 40's to mid to late 50's on the type of diet your taking about.
You can believe it or not, but the stats bear it out.

 

[JosephsDreams]

I just finished reading through the entire thread. I am not a old guy, but I'm not young either. I am probably not always as diplomatic as I should be as I am getting older. So please no one take offense.
I have said this in this forum before. I can't recall where, and I am to lazy to look it up and paste it. I will try to keep this short.

Most of you, including if there is any one on here who may be conventionally schooled as a RD or a health or nutrition coach have no clue about biological healing and the parameters of a truly health diet and lifestyle given the restrictions of our living conditions.
I will leave it at that.

If anyone of you knows what I am talking about, then please tell me what I mean.
If you don't know what I am talking about, or don't agree with me, then please, I ask you, so we are all on the same page with our perspectives about about what God originally said about diet, and what a biologically healing and sustainable diet is, and what I mean about the parameters of a truly healthy diet, then either ask me what I mean or state it.

If anyone wants to discuss this, a real dialogue of what actually gets results and why, then I will be happy to. If not, that's fine to. We have to be on the same page though from the outset about certain definition's and what God said. If not, your wasting my time and yours.

A word of advice. The medical health profession is not always in agreement with Gods view of diet and lifestyle, nor in what many ND'S or holistic type health care people say and do. If you are a staunch supporter of the conventional medical system re diet and lifestyle, then please back up your claims with factual information. Like long term unbiased studies. I am talking about studies that are not paid for by the very institution who publishes them, and has a vested monetary interest in them reading a certain way, regardless if they are supporting the studies publicly, or behind the scenes, which is more often the case by proxy.

 

[laura_charlotte]

All I got from this was, "Dang, she has a lot of time on her hands to go through all my posts."

If you’re going to advocate yourself as a health and fitness coach and start threads available for everyone on the internet to be influenced by and to quote you, be prepared to be taken up on those principles. Saying ‘you have a lot of time your hands’ when a member studies and pays attention to health thread's and inquires on your claims, doesn’t say much for your accountability nor for how much you’re willing to stand behind what you post and your lifestyle. Deflecting and attacking is a pretty weak stance to adopt. It’s a very convenient and manipulative way to deflect, but unfortunately it doesn’t answer what you’ve been taken up on and been provided evidence for.

My point exactly. Hahahahah. I think she's on a lot of people ignore buttons. And frozen yogurt is pretty good. You just gained yourself another brownie point, Auntie <3

I’ll give you a little perspective. I’ve flown interstate and international across the pacific ocean several times now to meet loved ones from cc. I’ve been able to write letters and send care packages to those who have no family or those who have just come back from the war and are suffering ill health. If this person (or all the others that you claim) want to make an announcement in big bright letters, then that’s their choice but it certainly doesn’t take away from my experience on the site in the least, an ignore sign isn’t going to be a grain of salt for me.

Nor do you.

As I’ve requested with your prior claims, you’ll have to post them, rather than just claiming things to be so. Instead of chopping and changing posts, you’ll have to provide a direct quote, in context or an entire post.

I agree

Disagreeing with you on a subject and pointing out why with is entirely distinct from telling someone they have an agenda and they need to cease posting – if you agree with this, you ‘liking’ someone else’s post that instructed me to do the later is another contradiction on your part. Something you need to put your critical thinking hat on for.

Me, too! Man, you and I have so much in common

The question is begged then why do you 'like' the comment telling me to do otherwise? You’ve taken a portion of my reply to another post and agreed with it, yet the original post telling me to do otherwise you’ve also liked. If you’re going to chop and change people’s quotes and how they’ve responded to people for your own benefit, ensure there’s consistency across the board on your part of values and ‘likes’ otherwise the case you’re trying to mount is just hollow.

Gladly!

Again this was a response to another post accusing me of having an agenda and telling me to stop posting. If you want to use this to your advantage, then you too will have to illustrate exactly what rules I’ve breached. Looking forward to it.

My point in this is....you are doing exactly what you are mad at us about.

Not in the least. I haven’t asked you to stop posting or told you or anyone else they have an agenda. I’ve taken you up on your principles of being a health and fitness coach/instructor and your corresponding posts on this site. The vocation and posts seemed inconsistent to me and I followed through with explaining why I disagreed.

I’d like to reassure you again that I’m not mad at all. I know you mentioned in your earlier posts that I’m not your biggest fan, but I will reiterate prior to this discussion I’ve never had anything to do with you or responded to you that I could find. Again, if I’m wrong, you’ll have to post it rather than just making a false claim. I can reassure you I don’t get my emotions involved over you or anyone else on these forums, so be at ease.

The difference between you and I is....I don't care what you do with your life in health.

Again, my emotions aren’t as involved as you claim they are. However if you’re going to come onto the world wide web and advertise ‘fitness, fitness & fitness!!!’ claim authority and dispense advice to the larger population expect members of that community to come forward with their own views, studies and experiences. Don’t take it this hard if you put yourself out there as an authority on the matter and someone disagrees with you.

But, you are getting so worked up over mine. We can just agree to disagree

Also......

One sentence of a disagreement from me in a post had you telling people I was against you, how I had a long history of not being your biggest fan and reassuring me to calm down and that it will all be ok. Your emotional response littered with false claims was just a deflection.

If you want to keep posting, and chopping and changing responses it’s no skin of my back but to give yourself a bit more credibility I’d encourage you to engage in constructive discussion and think critically beyond stereotypical generalized youtube clips as a response.

I’ve got no hard feelings toward you at all, but for the sake of your own credibility if you want to make claims, be prepare to back them up. Deflection and attacking doesn’t say much for your health and fitness principles themselves nor for your walk with Christ, people won’t take you that seriously otherwise.

Um, what have you heard about grapefruit? I don't like the taste of it so I don't eat it. Lol. Just make sure not to eat too many fruits. Sometimes it can cause weight gain.

You do realize that fruit doesn’t cause weight gain? That’s another misnomer that I wanted to address. Fruit is a very powerful antioxidant for the brain and despite popular belief, it doesn’t cause a fat build up.

If you want to continue this discussion you’re more than welcome to message me. God speed.

 

[JosephsDreams]

It's not what goes into the body that defiles it. Rather, it is what comes out of a person that defiles them.

We're told not to worry about what we eat or drink.

Your mixing apples and oranges AA. Do you want to talk about spiritual stuff and or physical? I never said we should worry about what we eat. God says don;t worry. I am talking about honoring our bodies.

 

[JosephsDreams]

Anyone disagree with with me that after God, that the next most important thing we have is our relationships with others and our health?
If we are all so casual about our health because the bible talks about making our spirit the priority, then why are our health care costs through the roof?

If your not worried about what you eat, that means your not concerned about your health. So in that case, why even bother going for check ups, taking vaccines and meds (if you do them) and whatever else you do to take care of yourself via big med?

 

[shineyourlight]

[FONT=&quot]I’ve got no hard feelings toward you at all

Glad to hear! [/FONT]

 

[JosephsDreams]

CL knows her stuff. You will never gain weight eating fruit. You can eat 3 pounds of fruit a day (I would not recommend that) and not gain weight. You may eventually have high blood sugar levels, and will ahve bloating, but you'll never ever gain weight. Anyone with even a fundamental understanding of nutrition knows that.

 

[shineyourlight]

I don’t get my emotions involved over you or anyone else on these forums, so be at ease.

Really? That's hard to believe seeing that you get mad at anyone who is in disagreement with you how you treat others.

I also believe you think my emotions are more involved than it already is. I find it more humorous than anything to see you getting so upset over it. And no, this is a forum so I'll be posting on HERE (just like the many times you have said you have the right to), not messages. But, thanks for the offer

You would like a direct quote. Absolutely. No problem. Take a look at the whole thread. Those are all your direct quotes and I think many people will agree with me, seeing that I've had at least two people (as well as people messaging me about how ridiculous your'e being) come to my defense on here and calling you out for the same stuff that I have been.

And the youtube video isn't stereotypical if you are showing all those signs in the video. Hence, me posting it.

Like I said, we can agree to disagree. You know about health. I know about health. I think it is great that you are a vegan. I would never become one, although I have looked into it. I think it is a good way to be healthy and so is my way.

And in response to you, "You don't have much time on your hands." Oh, yes you do. Yes, yes, yes, you do.

And I'm sorry that I didn't decided to take screenshots (like you did) when you attacked me in a chatroom. I'm pretty busy and it happened several months ago and I wouldn't keep something like that on my computer, lol.

Sure, if you want to think I'm deflecting. Be my guest. -shrugs-

Now, I'm unsubscribing from this because this is stupid. I like to be around positive people and you just aren't.

 

[JosephsDreams]

This is so funny. I signed out for a minute, and then signed back in. I want to the natural health forum just assuming that this is where this thread was. I looked around and said "huh?".
Then I realized why someone here said what am I doing in the Indian forum..

 

[shineyourlight]

Okay, now I'm unsubscribing and will not be checking this thread anymore because I feel like this is just a vicious cycle. Vegans will obviously look at meat eaters as being in the wrong because it's a different lifestyle from them. The thing that is different about this is this: I respect your choice and I don't think either of you are in the wrong, but me and everyone else who does eat meat is in the wrong. I am not in disagreement with your life choices or the health benefits. I actually agree with most of everything you are saying. What I disagree with is the treatment you bestow on me (and on many others, which I have noticed). That is what I disagree with.

But....before I go......I shall leave on one note and one note it shall remain.....

"God speed."

 

[JesusLives]

Hi, It is paradoxical to see obese Christians.
It shows lack of self-control in your dietery intake (self-control is the fruit of the Spirit).
What is your opinion, does it glorify God when Christians are obese/overweight?
(There are surely some who know this and are trying to lose weight but are unsuccessful).

So do obese Christians have an automatic ticket to hell?

 

[laura_charlotte]

Really? That's hard to believe seeing that you get mad at anyone who is in disagreement with you how you treat others.

No not at all, lots of people disagree, but they can do it without coming up with a myriad of false claims.

I also believe you think my emotions are more involved than it already is.

When a member posts all of one sentence of disagreement with health and fitness principles and you respond with a multitude of false claims and take it personally, as has been illustrated in this thread, it's difficult not to see that you're affected by it.

I find it more humorous than anything to see you getting so upset over it.

As you've been claiming from the outset, to reassure me that 'it will all be ok' simply because i posted disagreement about a person who advocates health and fitness but proposes a multitude of meals based on a variety of meats, i'm not upset. I'm not quite sure how else to reassure you, but if you don't want to accept that, i'm afraid I can't help you, that you'll have to come to terms with in your own time.

And no, this is a forum so I'll be posting on HERE (just like the many times you have said you have the right to), not messages. But, thanks for the offer

Again, no problem at all. You're most welcome. I'll respond to you here then.

You would like a direct quote. Absolutely. No problem. Take a look at the whole thread. Those are all your direct quotes

Actually they're not. You've taken portions of quote that i've responded to others with and taken them out of context with your replies. Chopping and changing and there in taking out of context isn't what is known as a direct quote. It's a basic concept of literacy.

and I think many people will agree with me, seeing that I've had at least two people (as well as people messaging me about how ridiculous your'e being) come to my defense on here and calling you out for the same stuff that I have been.

Would you believe it, i've had people message me as well, including a moderator, because i've invited two people, one of which was you, to explain to me where i've breached rules because i was requested to stop posting and accused of an agenda. If you think that a flock of people from a clique, posting a large ignore sign and going on about brownies is something called genuine support, I'd ask you to do a little bit more critical thinking again. Falsely accusing a member of having an agenda and telling them to stop posting is nothing short of manipulative and totally transparent. If that's the sort of support you endorse, then that's a sad, desperate reflection on your part, and not something I'd be interested in having.

And the youtube video isn't stereotypical if you are showing all those signs in the video. Hence, me posting it.

So me posting one sentence about those who advocate meat, dairy and telling others that fruit is a part of weight gain is not an authority that i endorse on healthy and fitness, causes you to jump to a crazy vegan clip? Again, it's very convenient, but it's a just a deflection tool that fails.

And in response to you, "You don't have much time on your hands." Oh, yes you do. Yes, yes, yes, you do.

So let's go back to the origin of this quote. You claimed that you never advocated all different kinds of meat. I showed you where you did. Your only reply, yet again was to tell me that I have time on my hands. I'll reiterate for you: if you want to propagate yourself as a health and fitness instructor, if you want to dispense advice to the larger population on the internet, and someone take you up on something, if your only response is to say 'you have too much time on your hands' - that's totally fails to back up any authority you have any matter to do with health and fitness. Be prepared to be disagreed with, to explain yourself, or don't bother posting the forums available for everyone who has an internet connection - it's that simple.

And I'm sorry that I didn't decided to take screenshots (like you did) when you attacked me in a chatroom.

No worries, I got it. The owner of this site can keep those records.




Nothing you or I has said has been chopped or changed, so I'm wondering where the attack is. If you felt like that was an 'attack' i apologise, not intended. If you felt that you were being 'attacked' here, I'd've encouraged you to report it.

Sure, if you want to think I'm deflecting. Be my guest. -shrugs-

When you've been on here for the time that you have, and you've constantly put yourself out there as an authority on health and fitness, one single sentence of plain disagreement from myself, had you go on an entire post rant not just in response but with another member making multiple false claims, not to mention a crazy vegan youtube clip and instead of acknowledging this or all other inconsistencies - that is what is known as deflection.

Now, I'm unsubscribing from this because this is stupid. I like to be around positive people and you just aren't.

That's totally your prerogative. As I said earlier, if you wish to continue this discussion about health and fitness over a message, the doors always open. God speed.

 

[laura_charlotte]

What I disagree with is the treatment you bestow on me (and on many others, which I have noticed). That is what I disagree with.

But....before I go......I shall leave on one note and one note it shall remain.....

"God speed."

View attachment 158625

One sentence of disagreement about your claims is not mistreating you, nor is it mistreating others. Sorry to disappoint you. If you prefer, as you claim, to be around positive people, ending on a sarcastic note with someone downing food that is known as one of the biggest causes of cancer, in between pages of putting yourself forward as a christian and a health and fitness coach, that's your choice, but it do you any favours. As noted earlier, the door's always open if you want to continue this discussion in a message. God speed!

 

[AuntieAnt]

Your mixing apples and oranges AA. Do you want to talk about spiritual stuff and or physical? I never said we should worry about what we eat. God says don;t worry. I am talking about honoring our bodies.

What's wrong with mixing apples and oranges?? Didn't you just say we can have all the fruit we want? LOL

You can eat 3 pounds of fruit a day...

Heehee!! Just yanking your chain, brother.

Seriously, I do believe in good health but I honestly don't think there's a one size fits all diet. My dearest friend and spiritual mentor was a health advocate most of his life and was in excellent physical condition. Yet he was diagnosed with ALS and passed away a few months ago in spite of doing all he could to eliminate any toxins that were in his body. (Lord Jesus, I miss my brother terribly!!!)

And I also have dear friends who aren't in the greatest physical shape, who don't stick to any particular diet and are absolutely Christ-like nonetheless.

I'm just saying if you're interested in keeping your body in shape, wonderful. And if someone isn't that interested, it's no big deal. Someone's physique is no indication of their spiritual condition. That's what I mean to say, brother.

 

[JosephsDreams]

What's wrong with mixing apples and oranges?? Didn't you just say we can have all the fruit we want? LOL



Heehee!! Just yanking your chain, brother.

Seriously, I do believe in good health but I honestly don't think there's a one size fits all diet. My dearest friend and spiritual mentor was a health advocate most of his life and was in excellent physical condition. Yet he was diagnosed with ALS and passed away a few months ago in spite of doing all he could to eliminate any toxins that were in his body. (Lord Jesus, I miss my brother terribly!!!)

And I also have dear friends who aren't in the greatest physical shape, who don't stick to any particular diet and are absolutely Christ-like nonetheless.

I'm just saying if you're interested in keeping your body in shape, wonderful. And if someone isn't that interested, it's no big deal. Someone's physique is no indication of their spiritual condition. That's what I mean to say, brother.

If you don't believe Genesis 1:29, which is a one size fits all diet, take it up with God. I'm just the messenger ...

 

[JosephsDreams]

It's all good. In the end, our bodies are going to perish. We have them for only a short time anyway. So if I live another 20 years longer then you because of the way I eat, in the big picture, it really is no that much more time. Either way, past my great grand kids ( I don't have any yet), no one is going to remember me anyway.
I am just of the mindset live a quality level of health while we are here.
I happen to be one of those people who like to use my body, and am probably a little bit vain too.