THE RAPTURE

[Ahwatukee]

DEATH IS SWALLOWED UP IN VICTORY.

The above is referring to the fact that those who are changed into those immortal and glorified bodies can never die again, and not that death will have ceased to exist. Death isn't destroyed until the great white throne judgment, which takes place after the millennial period.

ISAIAH 2 [19] And they shall go into the holes of the rocks, and into the caves of the earth, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, when he ariseth to shake terribly the earth. [20] IN THAT DAY a man shall cast his idols of silver, and his idols of gold, which they made each one for himself to worship, to the moles and to the bats; [21] To go into the clefts of the rocks, and into the tops of the ragged rocks, for fear of the LORD, and for the glory of his majesty, WHEN HE ARISETH TO SHAKE TERRIBLY THE EARTH.

The above is scripture is synonymous with the event of the 6th seal in Revelation. After that comes the 7th seal followed by seven trumpets, which is followed by seven bowl judgments, which complete God's wrath.

The phrase "the day of the Lord" is synonymous with "the hour of trial" which is neither a day nor an hour in length, but covers the entire seven years, which is when God will be pouring out his wrath of which the church is not exposed to.

 

[Wall]

You are getting the people who died during the tribulations period, with those who die in Christ and are resurrected at the pre trib rapture.

You twist the scriptures to build your own doctrines.

I wish i could make the claim that its you who twist the scriptures. Seems i cant. You dont post any scriptures. Only opinions

 

[Wall]

Another point is that, the very last word in the 3rd chapter is "Ekklesia" translated church, but from chapter 4 onward you will never see the word Ekklessia/Church again. The word used to describe a believer from Rev.4 onward is the word Hagios/Saint, which is in reference to the GTS. The reason that you don't see the word Ekklesia/church any longer is because the church has been removed.

Is that a valid argument? Well... the word “church” is absent from all the well known rapture passages: 1Thess.4:13-17, 1Cor 15:50-54, and John 14:1-4. So if we follow your logic, we have the right to conclude that the church will not be raptured? Also the word “church” is absent from the books of Mark, Luke, John, 2 Timothy, Titus, 1 Peter, 2 Peter, 1 John, 2 John, and Jude. Does that mean those books do not pertain to the church?

 

[Blain]

There are seven raptures in the Bible, Three have already happened, Enoch, Gen 5: 24. Elijah 2 Kings 2: 11.
and Jesus. Acts 1: 9--11.
The next raptures is the PRE-TRIB rapture, Matt 25: 1--13. Jn 14: 1--3. 1 Thess 4: 15--17
[Your disbelief of it, doesn't change the fact].
Then there are three more raptures after the Church is in heaven, The 144,000, Rev 7: 1--8. then those who get saved during the tribulation period, [The Mid tribers], Rev 7: 9--15.
then the two witnesses. Rev 11: 3--12.

So it isn't based on our own beliefs, opinions or interpretations, [That's where you went wrong], as it's based on the scriptures.

There is a pre-trib, a mid trib, But you couldn't have seen a post trib rapture, Because the Bible doesn't teach is.
When Jesus physically comes back to reign with His people, There is no rapture, And where could they be raptured to??, Jesus isn't going back to heaven once He comes to reign, Yet every rapture, is people being taken to heaven.

Am i wrong? have ever noticed that every believer in the rapture regardless if that is pre mid or post each are able to post scriptures that appear to support their belief in when the rapture is? have you ever noticed how often scripture is said to say something else than what you believe or how the scriptures are dissected and thus various different views and beliefs about a single subject are debated? it's entirely on what we see and what we believe when it comes to understanding when and how the rapture happens which is why this debate is a never ending one because in the end everyone refuses to release their views of it they go into the scriptures with their belief in the rapture already set in stone and so their belief is all they see and they are blind to anything that would contradict their belief.

As for me I don't know how or when it's going to happen but I know this- I intend to have my heart prepared for any of the scenarios, if I can go home before the tribulation believe me I would be absolutely overjoyed however I also am more than prepared to go through the tribulation as well, I told God from the beginning my reason to seek to be strong in him and it certainly wasn't for myself. Believe me even if I can go home before the tribulation I would ask God to send me back down to help and to serve in those times of blood and darkness.
wherever the enemies hand is to strike down his children lost or saved you can bet your buns I will be there to intercede the blow. When I was first saved within a week I read revelation and there was a part that spoke to me, I read of his eyes being as a blazing fire and I knew in that instant why they burned, they burned so intensely out of a deep and fiery love and protection for his children as if his eyes were saying the satan you will not touch a hair on their heads and I was overwhelmed at that time when I read it so much so I couldn't move or speak for a second but it was in that moment that I knew why my fire would burn as well

 

[Wall]

The phrase "the day of the Lord" is synonymous with "the hour of trial" which is neither a day nor an hour in length, but covers the entire seven years, which is when God will be pouring out his wrath of which the church is not exposed to.

You think the Day of the Lord begins with the 7 yrs of tribulation. Scripture says otherwise

MARK 13 [19] For in those days shall be affliction, such as was not from the beginning of the creation which God created unto this time, neither shall be.[20] And except that the Lord had shortened those days, no flesh should be saved: but for the elect's sake, whom he hath chosen, he hath shortened the days.[21] And then if any man shall say to you, Lo, here is Christ; or, lo, he is there; believe him not:[22] For false Christs and false prophets shall rise, and shall shew signs and wonders, to seduce, if it were possible, even the elect.[23] But take ye heed: behold, I have foretold you all things.

{verses 19-23 describe the trib period}
{verses 24-27 describe the Day of the Lord}

[24] But in those days, AFTER THAT TRIBULATION, the SUN SHALL BE DARKENED, AND THE MOON SHALL NOT GIVE HER LIGHT,[25] And the stars of heaven shall fall, and the powers that are in heaven shall be shaken.[26] And then shall they see the Son of man coming in the clouds with great power and glory.[27] And then shall he send his angels, and shall GATHER TOGETHER HIS ELECT from the four winds, from the uttermost part of the earth to the uttermost part of heaven.

In Mark you see the great tribulation period is FOLLOWED by a dark sun and dark moon

JOEL 2 [10] The earth shall quake before them; the heavens shall tremble: THE SUN AND THE MOON SHALL BE DARK, and the stars shall withdraw their shining: [11] And the LORD shall utter his voice before his army: for his camp is very great: for he is strong that executeth his word: for THE DAY OF THE LORD is great and very terrible; and who can abide it?

JOEL 2 [30] And I will shew wonders in the heavens and in the earth, blood, and fire, and pillars of smoke. [31] THE SUN SHALL BE TURNED INTO DARKNESS, AND THE MOON INTO BLOOD, BEFORE THE GREAT AND THE TERRIBLE DAY OF THE LORD COME.

In Joel we find the sun will be darkened and the moon into blood BEFORE the Day of the Lord

ACTS 2[19] And I will shew wonders in heaven above, and signs in the earth beneath; blood, and fire, and vapour of smoke: [20] The sun shall be turned into darkness, and the moon into blood, BEFORE THAT GREAT AND NOTABLE DAY OF THE LORD COME:

As found in Joel; found in the book of Acts

[FONT=&quot]There can be no doubt. Joel and Mark and Acts are speaking of the same event. The book of Acts & Joel says the the sun will be darkened BEFORE the "day of the Lord". Mark says the sun will be darkened AFTER the tribulation. How can anyone claim the great tribulation period to be part of the "day of the Lord" if the "day of the Lord" doesnt begin till AFTER the tribulation? [/FONT]

 

[God4me]

I wish i could make the claim that its you who twist the scriptures. Seems i cant. You dont post any scriptures. Only opinions

You tell lies as well as twist the scriptures.

 

[Stunnedbygrace]

Hello tanakh,

30% of God's word is prophetic. Do you think that He provided all of that information to be ignored? For those longing for the Lord, His appearing is our blessed hope. For if we can see the stage being set for the time of the antichrist and the church is to be removed from the earth prior to that time period, it tells the believer that we are ever closer to the Lord's appearing to gather His church. Furthermore, we have a special blessing from God regarding the reading and hearing of end-time events:

"Blessed is he who reads and those who hear the words of the prophecy, and heed the things which are written in it; for the time is near."

"Behold, I am coming quickly. Blessed is the one who keeps the words of prophecy in this book."

"And I am John, the one who heard and saw these things. And when I had heard and seen them, I fell down to worship at the feet of the angel who had shown me these things. But he said to me, “Do not do that. I am a fellow servant with you and your brothers the prophets, and with those who keep the words of this book. Worship God!”

"I testify to everyone who hears the words of prophecy in this book: If anyone adds to them, God will add to him the plagues described in this book. And if anyone takes away from the words of this book of prophecy, God will take away his share in the tree of life and in the holy city, which are described in this book."


Prophecy is very important and God wanted us to know about the events that would be lead up to the time of the end. Of all people we should be hanging on the edge of our seats daily, because we are that generation living in the last days leading up to the time of God's wrath.

The study of end-time events gives the believer greater insight as to where we are in God's prophetic time-line and keeps us looking for the Lord's imminent appearing. Though others who have attempted to claim that they were living in the last days had no right to do so and that because all of the signs would have had to be present. The world is now ripe for that antichrist to be revealed and we already have the technology where people are being implanted with chips under the skin of the hand, which will evolve into that mark. The very fact that that this technology even exists is a testimony to the truth and accuracy of God's word and how close we are to the Lord's appearing.



I'm sure that our belief in His word, prophesies included, will also be brought up in our judgment, whether or not we rightly divided the word of God. Some don't even believe in His word regarding end-time prophesies and mock those who do study and proclaim them.

"Now there is in store for me the crown of righteousness, which the Lord, the righteous Judge, will award to me on that day--and not only to me, but also to all who have longed for his appearing."

Those who long for the Lord's appearing are those who are studying end-time events and looking for and hastening the coming of the day of the Lord.

Ahwatukee, there was something I noticed after a discussion with you some time ago. Going to TRY to explain it.
There is a verse I remember reading once, that says, to people saying: when will thed ay of the Lord come - you don't have any idea what you're asking for! Because that will be an awful day, clouds, gloom, etc.

And yet, we are told to hasten the day He comes for us and are told to look for His appearing and to love His appearing, etc.

THese are two of those things that seem to be in tension to each other - these things that people debate over, with each side taking one verse to exclusion of the verse(s) that seem to contradict them.

So...if we are to hasten, love and look for His appearing AND YET those who said they wanted the day oft he Lord to be here already are told that is an awful thing to want to come and that they had no IDEA what they were saying, then these are two different things!

Anyway, I meant to tell you but couldn't find the thread again so I'm glad I rememberedt o tell you now that I found you again!

 

[Wall]

You tell lies as well as twist the scriptures.

EZEK.13 [19] And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, BY YOUR LYING TO MY PEOPLE that hear your lies?[20] Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith YE THERE HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Whose tellin lies

 

[Ahwatukee]

Hello StunnedbyGrace,

You are correct in that, they would seem to be at odds with each other and the answer to this. In 1 Thes.4:13-18 Paul gives a detailed account of the Lord's appearing where the dead in Christ are resurrected, which is immediately followed by the living believers being changed and caught up. Now regarding that event Paul says the following:

"Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, 2for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night."

The dates and times that Paul refers to must refer back to the subject that he was just speaking about, which is the information regarding the gathering of the church. Notice also that he refers to that event as "the day of the Lord." That said, the gathering of the church is what initiates the day of the Lord, which is then followed by the indication of God's wrath in the next verse.

We see this same issue with what Peter says regarding the day of the Lord:

"Since everything will be destroyed in this way, what kind of people ought you to be? You ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming. That day will bring about the destruction of the heavens by fire, and the elements will melt in the heat."

Previous to that verse, Peter describes the destruction of the earth, then he says "you ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming." It would appear that Peter is saying that we should be looking forward to the day of the Lord and speed the coming of the wrath of God, which would make no sense. But it does make sense when you understand that the gathering of the church is apart of the day of the Lord and is in fact what initiates it. Therefore, Peter is referring to the gathering of the church which is apart of the day of the Lord and which takes place first. When Peter says, "you ought to live holy and godly lives as you look forward to the day of God and speed its coming," he is speaking about the gathering of the church, which takes place first and not about speeding the coming of God's wrath. Who would want to speed the coming of God's wrath. That person would certifiable! Who would be looking forward to the coming wrath of God? So Peter is referring to what initiates the day of the Lord, which is the gathering of the church and not the wrath.

In conclusion, both Paul and Peter are referring to the gathering of the church as the day of the Lord, which takes place prior to the wrath part of the day of the Lord. Once the church has been gathered, then they will say "peace and safety" and then sudden destruction will come upon them.

I hope this clears things up. If you have anything else that seems to be a contradiction, please don't hesitate to ask. If I already know the answer I will be more than happy to share. Read 1 Thes.4:13-18 and continue through Rev.5 and take note of the fact that Paul refers to the gathering of the church as "the day of the Lord."

"For the Lord himself will come down from heaven, with a loud command, with the voice of the archangel and with the trumpet call of God, and the dead in Christ will rise first. After that, we who are still alive and are left will be caught up together with them in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air. And so we will be with the Lord forever. Therefore encourage one another with these words. (<== Referring back to this ==>) Now, brothers and sisters, about times and dates we do not need to write to you, for you know very well that the day of the Lord will come like a thief in the night. While people are saying, “Peace and safety,” destruction will come on them suddenly, as labor pains on a pregnant woman, and they will not escape.

 

[God4me]

EZEK.13 [19] And will ye pollute me among my people for handfuls of barley and for pieces of bread, to slay the souls that should not die, and to save the souls alive that should not live, BY YOUR LYING TO MY PEOPLE that hear your lies?[20] Wherefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Behold, I am against your pillows, wherewith YE THERE HUNT THE SOULS TO MAKE THEM FLY, and I will tear them from your arms, and will let the souls go, even the souls that ye hunt to make them fly.

Whose tellin lies

I see you have found a scripture about yourself.

 

[Wall]

Hey GodForMe, Im pretty sure the Lord aint likin our back and forth. So...im done. Sorry bout what i said

 

[Wall]

The two set of scriptures below are not only the same event but are even in the same order. There is only one Second Coming and there is no rapture (as preached). When Jesus meets us in the air you will find no where in scripture that He brings us to heaven. What you do find in scripture is that He brings us to the 1000yr period of rest.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5
4:15 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump
4:17 - caught up together
5:1 – times and seasons
5:2 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction
5:6 - watch

Matthew 24
24:27 - coming (Parousia)
24:30 - clouds
24:31 - sound of a trumpet
24:31 - gather together
24:36 - day or hour
24:43 - a thief
24:39 - took them in a flood
24:42 - watch

 

[Ahwatukee]

The two set of scriptures below are not only the same event but are even in the same order. There is only one Second Coming and there is no rapture (as preached). When Jesus meets us in the air you will find no where in scripture that He brings us to heaven. What you do find in scripture is that He brings us to the 1000yr period of rest.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5
4:15 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump
4:17 - caught up together
5:1 – times and seasons
5:2 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction
5:6 - watch

Matthew 24
24:27 - coming (Parousia)
24:30 - clouds
24:31 - sound of a trumpet
24:31 - gather together
24:36 - day or hour
24:43 - a thief
24:39 - took them in a flood
24:42 - watch

As I said before, once you make the error of not recognizing those two scriptures as separate events, everything else base on that will be in error. The "arriving in the clouds" is not unique to just one event. Those in 1 Thes.4 is the event of the church being gathered, both the dead and the living. Those in Mt.24 are those GTS and Israel who make it through alive thru the time of God's wrath and all the beast and the false prophet will be doing. Those who are being collected in Mt.24 are synonymous with the wheat in the parable of Mt.13. These are not the church, but the GTS and Israel. You are misapplying scripture to the wrong groups. Angels do not go out and gather the church. The Lord descends from heaven and the dead will be raised in those immortal and glorified bodies, which is immediately followed by the living being changed and caught up with them. 1 These.4 and Mt.24 is speaking about two different groups. The event of 1Thes.4 happens prior to God's wrath and the Mt.24 takes place after God's wrath.
.

 

[Wall]

The event of 1Thes.4 happens prior to God's wrath and the Mt.24 takes place after God's wrath.

Nope. 1Thes.4 is the Day of the Lords wrath

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lords wrath.

ISAIAH 13 [6] Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

ISAIAH 13 [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

JEREMIAH 46 [10] For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

EZEKIEL 30 [3] For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

JOEL 1 [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Its gonna be a bad day for "many"

 

[Ahwatukee]

Nope. 1Thes.4 is the Day of the Lords wrath

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lords wrath.

ISAIAH 13 [6] Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

ISAIAH 13 [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

JEREMIAH 46 [10] For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

EZEKIEL 30 [3] For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

JOEL 1 [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Its gonna be a bad day for "many"

well then, by believing that they are the same events, you have a big problem.

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

"For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him."

So tell us, do you believe in what the two verses above are saying? If so, then here is your problem: The wrath of God must take place prior to the Lord's return to the earth to end the age. That said, according to your belief, those living believers in the church would have to go through the entire seven years of God's wrath, which contradicts the above scriptures. By your belief, you are also not believing that Christ took upon himself the wrath that we deserve and thereby you are not honoring his sacrifice for us, because you have God pouring his wrath out on the church, which Christ already suffered for.

The other problems that you have with your belief is that, you are not understanding that Rev.19:6-8 shows that the bride/church is already in heaven receiving her white clothing, fine and clean. Then in Rev.19:14, we see the bride/church following Christ out of heaven riding on white horses and wearing the fine linen, white and clean that she received in Rev.19:6-8.

Wall, I am just trying to help you understand that what you are believing is not the correct interpretation. These things are the deeper truths of study that the Holy Spirit reveals. The church must and will be gathered prior to God's wrath being poured out, which is why it is called "the blessed hope." The gathering of the church certainly would not be a "Blessed hope" if we had to go through God's wrath. Believers have been reconciled to God through the blood of Christ and we therefore no longer under his wrath i.e. we have been brought back into a right relationship with him. Therefore, to say that God is going to send us who have been credited with righteousness and who have been reconciled to God, that he is going to send us through his wrath, this would not be in God's nature to do so. For God does not punish the righteous with the wicked.

 

[God4me]

Hey GodForMe, Im pretty sure the Lord aint likin our back and forth. So...im done. Sorry bout what i said

I'm sorry as well.
Thanks.

 

[popeye]

Thanks! I don't follow the rapture crowd, but I'd never heard of this lady you mentioned.

She was post trib.

She believed the church had to go through the GT for purification.

So,I guess whatever their motive for "mentioning her" must be to align the doctrine of post trib rapture with wackos?

I dunno

 

[popeye]

Nope. 1Thes.4 is the Day of the Lords wrath

1 THES. 4 [13] But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye SORROW NOT, EVEN AS OTHERS which have no hope. [14] For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. [15] For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. [16] For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with THE VOICE of the archangel, and with THE TRUMP OF GOD: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: [17] Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them IN THE CLOUDS, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. [18] Wherefore comfort one another with these words.

1THES.4 – voice – clouds – trump of God – sorrow not as others -

ZEPH. 1 – voice – clouds – the trumpet – man shall cry bitterly -

ZEPH. 1 [14] The great DAY OF THE LORD is near, it is near, and hasteth greatly, even THE VOICE of the day of the Lord: the mighty MAN SHALL CRY THERE BITTERLY. [15] That day is a day of wrath, a day of trouble and distress, a day of wasteness and desolation, a day of darkness and gloominess, a DAY OF CLOUDS and thick darkness, [16] A DAY OF THE TRUMPET and alarm against the fenced cities, and against the high towers. [17] And I will bring distress upon men, that they shall walk like blind men, because they have sinned against the Lord: and their blood shall be poured out as dust, and their flesh as the dung.

No doubt about it. Both scriptures are speaking of the same event. Both scriptures speak of what happens on the Day of the Lords wrath.

ISAIAH 13 [6] Howl ye; for the day of the Lord is at hand; it shall come as a destruction from the Almighty.

ISAIAH 13 [9] Behold, the day of the Lord cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it.

JEREMIAH 46 [10] For this is the day of the Lord God of hosts, a day of vengeance, that he may avenge him of his adversaries: and the sword shall devour, and it shall be satiate and made drunk with their blood: for the Lord God of hosts hath a sacrifice in the north country by the river Euphrates.

EZEKIEL 30 [3] For the day is near, even the day of the Lord is near, a cloudy day; it shall be the time of the heathen.

JOEL 1 [15] Alas for the day! for the day of the Lord is at hand, and as a destruction from the Almighty shall it come.


Its gonna be a bad day for "many"

Major flaw in your deal;

" the dead shall rise first"

You forgot that little nugget.

 

[Wall]

well then, by believing that they are the same events, you have a big problem.

"They tell how you turned to God from idols to serve the living and true God, and to wait for his Son from heaven, whom he raised from the dead—Jesus, who rescues us from the coming wrath.

"For God did not appoint us to suffer wrath but to receive salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ. He died for us so that, whether we are awake or asleep, we may live together with him."

Already posted scriptures proving we will be protected from the wrath, right here on Gods green earth. So when do you believe those who were raptured return to earth with Christ?

 

[popeye]

The two set of scriptures below are not only the same event but are even in the same order. There is only one Second Coming and there is no rapture (as preached). When Jesus meets us in the air you will find no where in scripture that He brings us to heaven. What you do find in scripture is that He brings us to the 1000yr period of rest.

1 Thessalonians 4 and 5
4:15 - coming (Parousia)
4:17 - clouds
4:16 - shout, voice trump
4:17 - caught up together
5:1 – times and seasons
5:2 - a thief
5:3 - sudden destruction
5:6 - watch

Matthew 24
24:27 - coming (Parousia)
24:30 - clouds
24:31 - sound of a trumpet
24:31 - gather together
24:36 - day or hour
24:43 - a thief
24:39 - took them in a flood
24:42 - watch

Again,no dead in Christ raised in your deal