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Hebrews 6:4-6 - not at it seems...
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
Nigh unto cursing, He is not cursed,, As paul said in 1 cor, one can have all their rewards burnt, and left wiht nothing but ash,, Yet he himself is still saved, even as through fire.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
As long as Jesus lives, we shall live also. Because HE IS OUR SALVATION. and nothing can take that away..
He died for and saved us as his enemy, How much more will he love is when we are his child?
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
I am still a citizen, Blood born..
Who would ever renounce their citizenship, or sonship to God?
Of course, one should not expect you to understand this..
To fall away or fall backward speaks of judgement in the scriptures. It is used in the same way as calling fire from heaven also indicating judgment is present.
A couple examples as to how the phrase is used....
Gen 49:17 Dan shall be a serpent by the way, an adder in the path, that biteth the horse heels, so that his rider shall fall backward.
Isa 1:4 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the LORD, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward.
They answered him, Jesus of Nazareth. Jesus saith unto them, I am he. And Judas also, which betrayed him, stood with them.As soon then as he had said unto them, I am he, they went backward, and fell to the ground.Joh 18:6
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1 Timothy 4:1-5 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.
This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...
It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.
.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
[SUP]1 [/SUP] But the Spirit explicitly says that in later times some will fall away ( apostesontai ) from the faith, paying attention to deceitful spirits and doctrines of demons,
[SUP]2 [/SUP] by means of the hypocrisy of liars seared in their own conscience as with a branding iron,
[SUP]3 [/SUP] men who forbid marriage and advocate abstaining from foods which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth.
[SUP]4 [/SUP] For everything created by God is good, and nothing is to be rejected if it is received with gratitude;
[SUP]5 [/SUP] for it is sanctified by means of the word of God and prayer.
What is going to cause this "falling away" ( apostasy )...people who forbid others to marry...and not to eat certain foods...why is this departing from the faith?...it's in verse 3, 4 and 5.
verse 3 = which God has created to be gratefully shared in by those who believe and know the truth. It's in knowing who you are in Christ - who is the truth and the faith....this not marrying and not eating certain foods to keep yourself "separated" from others..is a form of self-effort and reliance on a D.I.Y. self-righteousness/holiness mindset.
This is "departing from the faith - apostasy"....... people creating their own righteousness/holiness through their works of the flesh by self-effort...
It has the "appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life.
.. man-made religion denying the finished work of our Lord Jesus Christ.
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FreeNChrist
Guest
Right. So, what is it those in this letter to "Hebrews" were falling away back onto ?
I think that the reason you offered ; (“appearance " of good but it denies the power to effect real change ...which is Christ in us and His life), Is in lieu of the opening statement.
From my experience it seems to get ignored as to what faith "towards" God represents. (dead works) And not the faith of Christ towards us. The better thing that accompanies salvation seeing it is a living work of faith .
Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God,Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. Heb 6:1
What I like is the verse that informs us better things accompany salvation . Which of course is redemption. (OSAS)
Heb 6:9 But, beloved, we are persuaded better things of you, and things that accompany salvation, though we thus speak.
I think the OP nicely pointed out the whole context of the passage is spiritual maturity, not losing ones' salvation. Remember, there are no chapter divisions in the originals.
Hebrews 5:11-14 KJVS
[11] Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 6:1-6 KJVS
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
Hebrews 5:11-14 KJVS
[11] Of whom we have many things to say, and hard to be uttered, seeing ye are dull of hearing. [12] For when for the time ye ought to be teachers, ye have need that one teach you again which be the first principles of the oracles of God; and are become such as have need of milk, and not of strong meat. [13] For every one that useth milk is unskilful in the word of righteousness: for he is a babe. [14] But strong meat belongeth to them that are of full age, even those who by reason of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
Hebrews 6:1-6 KJVS
[1] Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, [2] Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment. [3] And this will we do, if God permit. [4] For it is impossible for those who were once enlightened, and have tasted of the heavenly gift, and were made partakers of the Holy Ghost,[5] And have tasted the good word of God, and the powers of the world to come, [6] If they shall fall away, to renew them again unto repentance; seeing they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh, and put him to an open shame.
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UnderGrace
Guest
Sometimes you pull a scripture out from its context and its power just shines even more!
Thank you Crossnote, I just had never really noticed this line and all its beauty! Amen
For those on here that have said you can through salvation away or you can leave because of free will I will admit this idea really did cause me anguish this year since someone basically damned me to hell because of my belief in eternal salvation.
What also ties into this is what Lynn (go Lynn go) spoke about which I think so bears repeating because it is such a tremendous insight into ultimately understanding the Gospel.
Justification and redemption are acts truly outside of our will just like our sin nature came to us outside of our will.
Sin was a received via Adam as a gift, we did nothing to earn it and we cannot out will our sin nature. The New Adam gives us a New gift, and again we cannot out will or out earn the gift once we receive it, absolutely it is His work we cannot undo His work.
I am sorry but anyone who believes that we can undo God’s work just does not understand the complete Gospel and Praise God this is actually the true Gospel in its entirety.
God is not the God of half done work, His work is Perfect and Complete.
Simple, Pure and Beautiful and why people have to mess it up is beyond me.
Amen
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UnderGrace
Guest
Hebrews 6:4-6 is a warning to believers, and as an example of those who were once believers but had fallen away, that's the whole point of the warning. But OSAS believers will try to twist that and say it is not talking about those who were once saved, but if one was once enlightened by the Holy Spirit they were at one point in time "believers." Not hard to grasp.
The false doctrine of OSAS that claims you cannot fall away from the faith, no way and no how, is totally false, and is contrary to so many parts of scripture and prophecy of the falling away that Jesus and the apostles preached. OSAS believers claim ongoing sin cannot effect your eternal security, but Jesus said those who commit sin are in fact servants of sin, AND A SERVANT OF SIN ABIDES NOT IN THE HOUSE FOREVER= NO ETERNAL SECURITY FOR ONGOING SINNERS.
The warnings in scripture are many and very clear....
Hebrews 10:26-29 "For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins,[SUP]27 [/SUP]But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries.
[SUP]28 [/SUP]He that despised Moses' law died without mercy under two or three witnesses:
[SUP]29 [/SUP]Of how much sorer punishment, suppose ye, shall he be thought worthy, who hath trodden under foot the Son of God, and hath counted the blood of the covenant, wherewith he was sanctified, an unholy thing, and hath done despite unto the Spirit of grace?"
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FreeNChrist
Guest
You are one who could benefit greatly from discovering what those being referenced there are falling away "to".
They were falling back to the ways of the world, falling back to their old ways=sin.
2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
The warnings are many, and the scriptures are very clear for those who will not try to deny God's words as true.
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eternally-gratefull
Guest
They were falling back to the ways of the world, falling back to their old ways=sin.
2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
The warnings are many, and the scriptures are very clear for those who will not try to deny God's words as true.
wow man, Since when do we go to Peter to get context for Hebrews? Different Author, Different context.
The context of Hebrews is going back to law. Not going back to sin (although going back to law could be classified as sin)
The warning is going back to legalism, Where one must prety much be resaved every year. If we can fall away, No sacrifice will ever help. we are doomed forever. for christs one sacrifice was not sufficient.
Undoing God's work would be like the Israelites going back and parting the Red Sea on their own.
Some times well intentioned people take Hebrews 10:26-29 out of context with the book of Hebrews. Anyone can take an isolated scripture out of it's context and say anything they want. Here is an example. Anyone who has ever sinned is blotted out of the book.
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins. Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.
Here is a shot video which will illuminate this clearly.
[video=youtube;yrc5EOpokSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc5EOpokSc[/video]
Exodus 32:33 (NASB)
[SUP]33 [/SUP] The LORD said to Moses, "Whoever has sinned against Me, I will blot him out of My book.
Hebrews 10 is talking about Jewish people after hearing about Christ for the only sacrifice for sins and rejecting it to go back to the temple sacrifices for their sins. Hebrews was written a few years before the temple system came crashing down in 70AD when it was trampled by the Roman army.
Here is a shot video which will illuminate this clearly.
[video=youtube;yrc5EOpokSc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yrc5EOpokSc[/video]
The whole context of Hebrews is a warning of the vainness of turning back to the Levitical system in light of BETTER things.They were falling back to the ways of the world, falling back to their old ways=sin.
2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ, they are again entangled therein, and overcome, the latter end is worse with them than the beginning.
[SUP]21 [/SUP]For it had been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness, than, after they have known it, to turn from the holy commandment delivered unto them."
The warnings are many, and the scriptures are very clear for those who will not try to deny God's words as true.
As for your 2 Peter 2 ...here is the answer to that...and this has been talked about in light of the New Covenant many times.
The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..
then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.
Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell..it says that their life here will belike going back like a dog to vomit.
Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us.
Twice dead
The whole chapter 2 in 2 Peter is talking about false prophets in verse 1...then in verse 9 Peter talks about the unrighteous ( the unbeliever )..
then in verse 13..they are stains and blemishes ( believers have no spot or blemish because of Jesus..1 Peter 1:19 Eph 5:27 Eph 1:4 )..all through that chapter he is not describing a believer in Christ.
Even "IF" it is talking about a believer it still does not say they go to hell..it says that their life here will belike going back like a dog to vomit.
Here is a post #49 from mailmandan that dissects 2 Peter 2:20 down for us.
Twice dead
2 Peter 2:20-21[SUP]20 [/SUP]For if after they have escaped the pollutions of the world through the knowledge of the Lord and Saviour Jesus Christ,
Sorry, "the pollutions of the world" is not the system of the Levitical priesthood, nice try though.