You Are A New Creation!
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I have never held good works saves anyone.
Yes I agree we are saved by Christs work, but he brought us into the Kingdom
to walk as children of the Living God, to be transformed from sinners to saints.
This happens through discipleship and obedience.
Israel had people who came to the Lord individually, but as a nation it failed.
God on the dramatic show, the social scale worked, but they often missed the individual
one to one friendship. Christ changed that by His example, by the cross, by putting it
all into context.
David saw all we see, but as one man through his trials. In Jesus it has become plain.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
1 John 3:16
Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Col 3:13
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
Acts 8:22
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:12
Love, hate, forgiveness. Powerful subjects, one we find hard to walk in and let go of.
How much parents hurt their children, school and upbringing leaves deep wounds, betrayal
of friends, circumstances. Emotional turmoil within.
So many times to just touch the subject people say back off. You cannot go there.
God has always been the same, His heart is to meet people and set them free.
But this is a hard road, very defended, very rough, very raw, very painful.
If you want to talk real spirituality, it is here it hurts. It took me years to risk my
love for another, to face the fear of rejection, and then to fight on through.
So much I knew, so little I risked. Jesus risked it all and more.
Nothing is what it appears, opinions, doctrine, convictions, certainty. Over night
people can change when one issue surfaces, a committed believer throws it over.
So I know in these interactions, we are all different with different stories.
People as individuals can see a thread that is alive, and then it becomes something
else, while another is just playing around. The Lord knows who are His. I play for
reality, core truth from the core of where you are all the way to heaven.
Yes I agree we are saved by Christs work, but he brought us into the Kingdom
to walk as children of the Living God, to be transformed from sinners to saints.
This happens through discipleship and obedience.
Israel had people who came to the Lord individually, but as a nation it failed.
God on the dramatic show, the social scale worked, but they often missed the individual
one to one friendship. Christ changed that by His example, by the cross, by putting it
all into context.
David saw all we see, but as one man through his trials. In Jesus it has become plain.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
1 John 3:16
Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Col 3:13
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
Acts 8:22
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:12
Love, hate, forgiveness. Powerful subjects, one we find hard to walk in and let go of.
How much parents hurt their children, school and upbringing leaves deep wounds, betrayal
of friends, circumstances. Emotional turmoil within.
So many times to just touch the subject people say back off. You cannot go there.
God has always been the same, His heart is to meet people and set them free.
But this is a hard road, very defended, very rough, very raw, very painful.
If you want to talk real spirituality, it is here it hurts. It took me years to risk my
love for another, to face the fear of rejection, and then to fight on through.
So much I knew, so little I risked. Jesus risked it all and more.
Nothing is what it appears, opinions, doctrine, convictions, certainty. Over night
people can change when one issue surfaces, a committed believer throws it over.
So I know in these interactions, we are all different with different stories.
People as individuals can see a thread that is alive, and then it becomes something
else, while another is just playing around. The Lord knows who are His. I play for
reality, core truth from the core of where you are all the way to heaven.
"he is" is implied from the translators because it is talking about the "anyone" before that. Anyone is the real person. All major translation have "he" in them.
If "anyone" ..that means the person themselves. The new you is the inner man created in Christ in righteousness and holiness. We still have the flesh with the law of sin in it as well as this decaying body.
There is no "it" in the Greek as you have injected it your version above. I says "Behold, new things have come".
If "anyone" ..that means the person themselves. The new you is the inner man created in Christ in righteousness and holiness. We still have the flesh with the law of sin in it as well as this decaying body.
There is no "it" in the Greek as you have injected it your version above. I says "Behold, new things have come".
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The inner man of the heart created in righteousness and holiness.
This is a statement of faith. A person is washed clean, the sin is washed away, no longer a
sinner. But their heart can still defile them, they can still choose to not dwell in Jesus's words,
love or work in their lives.
So often the testimony is matching the work of salvation with the learnt behaviours of the
past and working through the new life with Christ. So rather than a zap you are there, it is a
walk, a yoking to a new life, a new way, a new desire. The new creation is the foundation, but
it must be built upon and within, by choice, by work, by sowing.
But what is being believed is by people who have been christians for decades who now have had
a revelation, they already have everything and all the knowledge and are therefore in no position
to say what is in the new believers heart and experience.
I know many christians, born again for decades who still do not know the basics and are like
children in faith, rocked to and fro by the latest gimmick or teacher. There is no substitute to
dedication, conviction and obedience, emotionally putting love into action and purifying the
heart. And all because it is meant to happen by itself, just praise and it will be absorbed into
your soul through the new man. Nope. Does not happen. All the people here on cc are dedicated
studiers, readers, debaters, explorers. None got here without effort or careful consideration.
That should just by itself show this mystical view is simply not true.
This is a statement of faith. A person is washed clean, the sin is washed away, no longer a
sinner. But their heart can still defile them, they can still choose to not dwell in Jesus's words,
love or work in their lives.
So often the testimony is matching the work of salvation with the learnt behaviours of the
past and working through the new life with Christ. So rather than a zap you are there, it is a
walk, a yoking to a new life, a new way, a new desire. The new creation is the foundation, but
it must be built upon and within, by choice, by work, by sowing.
But what is being believed is by people who have been christians for decades who now have had
a revelation, they already have everything and all the knowledge and are therefore in no position
to say what is in the new believers heart and experience.
I know many christians, born again for decades who still do not know the basics and are like
children in faith, rocked to and fro by the latest gimmick or teacher. There is no substitute to
dedication, conviction and obedience, emotionally putting love into action and purifying the
heart. And all because it is meant to happen by itself, just praise and it will be absorbed into
your soul through the new man. Nope. Does not happen. All the people here on cc are dedicated
studiers, readers, debaters, explorers. None got here without effort or careful consideration.
That should just by itself show this mystical view is simply not true.
Romans 12:2 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
We can either walk by the spirit or by the flesh. Choose the spirit which is created in righteousness and holiness as this is where Christ lives by the Holy Spirit within us. This is where He guides and leads us.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, so that you may prove what the will of God is, that which is good and acceptable and perfect.
2 Corinthians 11:3 (KJV)
[SUP]3 [/SUP] But I fear, lest by any means, as the serpent beguiled Eve through his subtilty, so your minds should be corrupted from the simplicity that is in Christ.
Colossians 2:8 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] See to it that no one takes you captive through philosophy and empty deception, according to the tradition of men, according to the elementary principles of the world, rather than according to Christ.
Ephesians 4:23-24 (KJV)
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And be renewed in the spirit of your mind;
[SUP]24 [/SUP] And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness.
We can either walk by the spirit or by the flesh. Choose the spirit which is created in righteousness and holiness as this is where Christ lives by the Holy Spirit within us. This is where He guides and leads us.
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Conceptually I get conservative. A dead person has everything except their brain no longer has an electrical charge.
I like therefore to talk about how we are alive in Christ. It is like we function properly, everything is in place whereas once it was chaos, and any model or set of order could reign. It is like I have a centre where once I was just reactions to things.
That to me is life, a new spirit, but rather than an entity from heaven, it is a life born within.
And yes the Holy Spirit dwells with my spirit. My heart leaps, I worship and I am uplifted to the heavens, I can feel totally elated and at one with the Lord. My first real experience of this was praising the Lord in my room alone as a teenager.
I was like the very act brought my heart to life.
Some theology people start talking about faith like a fluid that flows. So I would rather talk about how we experience things, and then leave what we cannot describe alone. Jesus talks about His word being spirit and life. I know this in my spirit, but I cannot tell you why or how.
What freaked my out was a Sid Roth program where a prophet said to the listeners they could have a new heart from heaven implanted in them by just asking. It was like a shopping expedition. So I am wary of such language, rather I want to see fruit and outworking, that is reality.
I like therefore to talk about how we are alive in Christ. It is like we function properly, everything is in place whereas once it was chaos, and any model or set of order could reign. It is like I have a centre where once I was just reactions to things.
That to me is life, a new spirit, but rather than an entity from heaven, it is a life born within.
And yes the Holy Spirit dwells with my spirit. My heart leaps, I worship and I am uplifted to the heavens, I can feel totally elated and at one with the Lord. My first real experience of this was praising the Lord in my room alone as a teenager.
I was like the very act brought my heart to life.
Some theology people start talking about faith like a fluid that flows. So I would rather talk about how we experience things, and then leave what we cannot describe alone. Jesus talks about His word being spirit and life. I know this in my spirit, but I cannot tell you why or how.
What freaked my out was a Sid Roth program where a prophet said to the listeners they could have a new heart from heaven implanted in them by just asking. It was like a shopping expedition. So I am wary of such language, rather I want to see fruit and outworking, that is reality.
See to it that no one takes you captive through hollow and deceptive philosophy, which depends on human tradition and the elemental spiritual forces of this world rather than on Christ.
Col 2:8
The elements of the gospel are love, repentance, confession, forgiveness, faith, patience, kindness, mercy.
Traditions of men - religious festival, New moon celebration or Sabbath day
False humility or worship of angels.
Do not submit to rules "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch"
they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
col 3:5-11
So Amen to this above sentiments, but this is not what Grace7 had in mind, rather he wanted to give the impression we are suggesting something wrong and unscriptural. But read what Paul is writing.
Put to death - Rid yourselves.
This is all chosen actions, decisions and a direction.
To all this we say Amen
Col 2:8
The elements of the gospel are love, repentance, confession, forgiveness, faith, patience, kindness, mercy.
Traditions of men - religious festival, New moon celebration or Sabbath day
False humility or worship of angels.
Do not submit to rules "Do not handle! Do not taste! Do not touch"
they lack any value in restraining sensual indulgence.
Put to death, therefore, whatever belongs to your earthly nature: sexual immorality, impurity, lust, evil desires and greed, which is idolatry. 6 Because of these, the wrath of God is coming. You used to walk in these ways, in the life you once lived. But now you must also rid yourselves of all such things as these: anger, rage, malice, slander, and filthy language from your lips. Do not lie to each other, since you have taken off your old self with its practices and have put on the new self, which is being renewed in knowledge in the image of its Creator. Here there is no Gentile or Jew, circumcised or uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave or free, but Christ is all, and is in all.
col 3:5-11
So Amen to this above sentiments, but this is not what Grace7 had in mind, rather he wanted to give the impression we are suggesting something wrong and unscriptural. But read what Paul is writing.
Put to death - Rid yourselves.
This is all chosen actions, decisions and a direction.
To all this we say Amen
Traditions of men are anything that contradicts the finished work of Christ and it can take many forms.
Our real life - the real us is in Christ and our life is hidden in Christ in God. Out true identity is the new creation in Christ - the inner man created in righteousness and holiness.
We are to keep seeking the things above where we have been raised up with Christ. Set our minds on the things above - the new realities of being in Christ and all that He has done for us.
Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( notice the word "your" - that is the real you in Christ that is being talked about )
Our real life - the real us is in Christ and our life is hidden in Christ in God. Out true identity is the new creation in Christ - the inner man created in righteousness and holiness.
We are to keep seeking the things above where we have been raised up with Christ. Set our minds on the things above - the new realities of being in Christ and all that He has done for us.
Colossians 3:1-3 (NASB)
[SUP]1 [/SUP] Therefore if you have been raised up with Christ, keep seeking the things above, where Christ is, seated at the right hand of God.
[SUP]2 [/SUP] Set your mind on the things above, not on the things that are on earth.
[SUP]3 [/SUP] For you have died and your life is hidden with Christ in God. ( notice the word "your" - that is the real you in Christ that is being talked about )
Thank you for sharing your heart. Beautifully said. I am in total agreement with you as well.
We do need discipleship and obedience.
And I believe the desire to do these is a fruit of being joined to His Spirit.
I also believe knowing His ways are better (His goodness and kindness) in this life or the next also lead us into desiring His ways.
Past experiences do harm us and our lenses though. I think this is ultimately what Jesus was driving at when He said truth would set us free. Because whom the Son sets free IS is free. I believe knowing His truth is what allows us to effectually experience the freedom He purchased for us.
C.
We do need discipleship and obedience.
And I believe the desire to do these is a fruit of being joined to His Spirit.
I also believe knowing His ways are better (His goodness and kindness) in this life or the next also lead us into desiring His ways.
Past experiences do harm us and our lenses though. I think this is ultimately what Jesus was driving at when He said truth would set us free. Because whom the Son sets free IS is free. I believe knowing His truth is what allows us to effectually experience the freedom He purchased for us.
C.
L
we all need forgiveness and we all need to get into right relationship with God
we know we cannot merit forgiveness of our sins because of good behavior because the Bible tells us that
after we have come to faith and understand why Jesus died and all that that means, we should become ever more thankful as we put off the things that beset us as Paul says
have you seen where people here are denying that they sin? I am not making some of the connections you appear to make but I think we need to be careful of guilt by association
for example, if I say I have a German heritage, that does not mean I have a swastika tatoo and hate Jewish people
if I say I don't like cats, that does not mean I have gone around getting rid of the neighborhood kitties
now I believe in the spiritual gifts, but I do not have a church background that does so if someone says oh so and so is from the such and such church the person they are speaking to might then conclude 'well then, she does not believe in this or that and follows such and such' and of course, I have come to my own conclusions
so, to paint people as all the same color does not seem to work.
I haven't read the responses since I got back on so we'll see
Show us where the Greek says "it has become new"...show us the "it" part that you have "added".
We all know we have become new in Christ in the new creation.
Here is the Greek.
[TABLE="class: tablefloat"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]3708 [e]
idou
ἰδοὺ ,
Behold
V-AMA-2S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: tablefloat"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]1096 [e]
gegonen
γέγονεν
has emerged
V-RIA-3S[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
[TABLE="class: tablefloat"]
[TR]
[TD="align: left"]2537 [e]
kaina
καινά .
[the] new
Adj-NNP[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
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L
I think God is definite about the new heart as He even states in the OT He will take out the stony heart and give a heart of flesh and I know that is not addressed to new converts in Christ, but I think we can draw a parallel as all scripture is given for inspiration and is profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction[FONT=arial, sans-serif] II Tim 3: 16-17
that is what I'm saying. I don't see where anyone has said it is ok to sin but of course I have not read every thread and every post here, but I think enough to state that I don't think that is being said
as far as hyper grace is concerned, I never heard of that before this forum and I am not locked in a cupboard in the basement LOL!
how can a person deny the Bible says we are a new creation in Christ? I learned that before I was 10 and it IS in the Bible
people are seeing and understanding it differently for some reason
[/FONT]
that is what I'm saying. I don't see where anyone has said it is ok to sin but of course I have not read every thread and every post here, but I think enough to state that I don't think that is being said
as far as hyper grace is concerned, I never heard of that before this forum and I am not locked in a cupboard in the basement LOL!
how can a person deny the Bible says we are a new creation in Christ? I learned that before I was 10 and it IS in the Bible
people are seeing and understanding it differently for some reason
[/FONT]
L
Amen...well said...I gave you a rep for that because that is important for all believers to know the truth of this reality that is in us because we are in Christ.
L
Thank you for sharing your heart. Beautifully said. I am in total agreement with you as well.
We do need discipleship and obedience.
And I believe the desire to do these is a fruit of being joined to His Spirit.
I also believe knowing His ways are better (His goodness and kindness) in this life or the next also lead us into desiring His ways.
Past experiences do harm us and our lenses though. I think this is ultimately what Jesus was driving at when He said truth would set us free. Because whom the Son sets free IS is free. I believe knowing His truth is what allows us to effectually experience the freedom He purchased for us.
C.
Originally Posted by PeterJens
I have never held good works saves anyone.
Yes I agree we are saved by Christs work, but he brought us into the Kingdom
to walk as children of the Living God, to be transformed from sinners to saints.
This happens through discipleship and obedience.
Israel had people who came to the Lord individually, but as a nation it failed.
God on the dramatic show, the social scale worked, but they often missed the individual
one to one friendship. Christ changed that by His example, by the cross, by putting it
all into context.
David saw all we see, but as one man through his trials. In Jesus it has become plain.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
1 John 3:16
Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Col 3:13
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
Acts 8:22
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:12
Love, hate, forgiveness. Powerful subjects, one we find hard to walk in and let go of.
How much parents hurt their children, school and upbringing leaves deep wounds, betrayal
of friends, circumstances. Emotional turmoil within.
So many times to just touch the subject people say back off. You cannot go there.
God has always been the same, His heart is to meet people and set them free.
But this is a hard road, very defended, very rough, very raw, very painful.
If you want to talk real spirituality, it is here it hurts. It took me years to risk my
love for another, to face the fear of rejection, and then to fight on through.
So much I knew, so little I risked. Jesus risked it all and more.
Nothing is what it appears, opinions, doctrine, convictions, certainty. Over night
people can change when one issue surfaces, a committed believer throws it over.
So I know in these interactions, we are all different with different stories.
People as individuals can see a thread that is alive, and then it becomes something
else, while another is just playing around. The Lord knows who are His. I play for
reality, core truth from the core of where you are all the way to heaven.
We do need discipleship and obedience.
And I believe the desire to do these is a fruit of being joined to His Spirit.
I also believe knowing His ways are better (His goodness and kindness) in this life or the next also lead us into desiring His ways.
Past experiences do harm us and our lenses though. I think this is ultimately what Jesus was driving at when He said truth would set us free. Because whom the Son sets free IS is free. I believe knowing His truth is what allows us to effectually experience the freedom He purchased for us.
C.
I have never held good works saves anyone.
Yes I agree we are saved by Christs work, but he brought us into the Kingdom
to walk as children of the Living God, to be transformed from sinners to saints.
This happens through discipleship and obedience.
Israel had people who came to the Lord individually, but as a nation it failed.
God on the dramatic show, the social scale worked, but they often missed the individual
one to one friendship. Christ changed that by His example, by the cross, by putting it
all into context.
David saw all we see, but as one man through his trials. In Jesus it has become plain.
This is how we know what love is: Jesus Christ laid down his life for us. And we ought to lay down our lives for our brothers and sisters.
1 John 3:16
Forgive as the Lord forgave you.
Col 3:13
This is how my heavenly Father will treat each of you unless you forgive your brother or sister from your heart.
Matt 18:35
Repent of this wickedness and pray to the Lord in the hope that he may forgive you for having such a thought in your heart.
Acts 8:22
And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
Matt 6:12
Love, hate, forgiveness. Powerful subjects, one we find hard to walk in and let go of.
How much parents hurt their children, school and upbringing leaves deep wounds, betrayal
of friends, circumstances. Emotional turmoil within.
So many times to just touch the subject people say back off. You cannot go there.
God has always been the same, His heart is to meet people and set them free.
But this is a hard road, very defended, very rough, very raw, very painful.
If you want to talk real spirituality, it is here it hurts. It took me years to risk my
love for another, to face the fear of rejection, and then to fight on through.
So much I knew, so little I risked. Jesus risked it all and more.
Nothing is what it appears, opinions, doctrine, convictions, certainty. Over night
people can change when one issue surfaces, a committed believer throws it over.
So I know in these interactions, we are all different with different stories.
People as individuals can see a thread that is alive, and then it becomes something
else, while another is just playing around. The Lord knows who are His. I play for
reality, core truth from the core of where you are all the way to heaven.
Lets row back on some of this theology. Most people experience the Lord daily, in their walk without working out what it actually means or verbalising.
My goal is simple. To talk about purity and righteousness. This is about does
the cross mean we can find this place. It is something I realised I had stopped
thinking about or morality or standards.
With some believers to even raise this question was to bring about condemnation.
To talk about the sermon on the mount was only bringing guilt to people.
I had not come across this before. And everytime I have raised this question
EG, grace7 etc have jumped in as antagonists selling a story this is legalism.
This is not following Pauls encouragement of Timothy to live a pure, blameless,
righteous life. This is not legalism put the picture of freedom from sin and
being overcomers.
This gives me the impression there are two different faiths here.
My goal is simple. To talk about purity and righteousness. This is about does
the cross mean we can find this place. It is something I realised I had stopped
thinking about or morality or standards.
With some believers to even raise this question was to bring about condemnation.
To talk about the sermon on the mount was only bringing guilt to people.
I had not come across this before. And everytime I have raised this question
EG, grace7 etc have jumped in as antagonists selling a story this is legalism.
This is not following Pauls encouragement of Timothy to live a pure, blameless,
righteous life. This is not legalism put the picture of freedom from sin and
being overcomers.
This gives me the impression there are two different faiths here.