You Are A New Creation!

[Chester]

What do you think that stuff is? It's sinful nature.

I take "greed, anger, selfishness, fear" to be deep sin issues of the flesh that will result in external deeds of sin (sins) unless we live moment by moment out of the new nature (spirit level) that we have in Christ.

I am not one to make too big an issue out of a difference in understanding here. But I have found it helpful for myself to define sin as different at the three levels of man:

body - we do sins - wrong acts and deeds
soul - we have "sin" = anger, lust, fear, selfishness, etc.
spirit - the Christian has the new nature and thus is a saint, but the unbeliever still has the old nature - and thus at this level he is a sinner

(When Paul uses the term "flesh" (sarks) I think it can be the body or soul level depending on the context of its use)

When Paul says - "I am a sinner" - I think he means that he still does "wrong acts and deeds". I don't thinks he means that he is a sinner at the spirit level.

I will readily admit the above interpretation is my best understanding and am not dogmatic that "this is what Scripture says"

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

body - we do sins - wrong acts and deeds
soul - we have "sin" = anger, lust, fear, selfishness, etc.
spirit - the Christian has the new nature and thus is a saint, but the unbeliever still has the old nature - and thus at this level he is a sinner
[/B]

We also still have the old nature. We have both the old (Adam, the earthly nature) and new (Christ the heavenly nature). The unregenerate only have the old Adamic nature.

 

[PilgrimPassingThru]

Looks like Paul USED TO BE blasphemer and persecute and was injurious

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious:
but I obtained mercy, because I did it ignorantly in unbelief.

1Ti 1:15 This is a faithful saying, and worthy of all acceptation,
that Christ Jesus came into the world to save sinners; of whom I am chief.

Who was what?

1 Ti 1:13 Who was before* a blasphemer, and a persecutor, and injurious

These are past tense

1Cr 15:9... because I persecuted* the church of God.

Because Paul does not do that anymore (times past)


Gal 1:13 For ye have heard of my conversation in time past* in the Jews' religion,
how that beyond measure I persecuted *the church of God, and wasted it:

In reality he was persecuting Christ by persecuting the church

Acts 9:4 And he fell to the earth, and heard a voice saying unto him,
Saul, Saul, why persecutest thou me?

1Cr 15:9 For I am the least of the apostles,
that am not meet to be called an apostle,
because I persecuted* the church of God.

 

[Chester]

We also still have the old nature. We have both the old (Adam, the earthly nature) and new (Christ the heavenly nature). The unregenerate only have the old Adamic nature.

I would disagree that the Christian still has a sin nature, but I am probably in the minority from what many believe. So your view is probably the majority view: I gotta go -- but I enjoyed the discussion.

 

[FreeNChrist]

We also still have the old nature. We have both the old (Adam, the earthly nature) and new (Christ the heavenly nature). The unregenerate only have the old Adamic nature.

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that causes Christians to have a schizophrenic understanding of their spiritual identity.

 

[Grace777x70]

This is exactly the kind of nonsense that causes Christians to have a schizophrenic understanding of their spiritual identity.

I agree...and unfortunately it also makes them think they need to "do righteous deeds" in order to create and maintain their own righteousness.

They need to establish their righteousness because they have not submitted to God's righteousness in Christ.

Romans 10:2-3 (NASB)
[SUP]2 [/SUP] For I testify about them that they have a zeal for God, but not in accordance with knowledge.

[SUP]3 [/SUP] For not knowing about God's righteousness and seeking to establish their own, they did not subject themselves to the righteousness of God.

 

[garee]

The attempt here is to try and say anything a believer does is in the flesh which is simply not true. Everything we do is with our bodies, so by this logic everything we do is evil and wrong.

I would think of or generated by the flesh would be a reference to accepting the work of God who works in us to both will and do His good please in respect to what we do. If it is good it is of God.

It is simply a way of God saying he is not served by human hands as a will separate form his . We offer our bodies as if they were living sacrifices.... in view of His mercy not in view of an outward reward proving we are of Christ. That can only come if we offer it in pride

It would seem a clear distinction must be made between the things of God and those of men. He will not share his glory with the creature. In the parable below the person is offering the work of his hands as doing many wonderful works and not the hand as the will of God.

Christ did not say he did not do those works that he could not do in the first place unless they did have the Spirit of Christ working in them again to both will and do His good pleasure . According to the scripture without fail he performs that which is appointed to us .It is Christ who does make our hearts soft by giving us a new heart and a new spirit .

Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity. Mat 7:22

 

[Cee]

Okay so going through a lot of the comments let's talk about Standing in Christ!!! And what about the flesh?

Do we have a sin nature?

Starting with this Scripture here:

Eph 6:12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

Someone stated that this Scripture is talking about "other people" as flesh and blood and not our own flesh and blood, but is it really?

Let's look at is as a whole...

Eph 6:10Finally, be strong in the Lord and in the strength of his might.

This Scripture tells us to be STRONG in the Lord. That means we look at His Strength, His Power in our life. Not at our weaknesses. Every single time we say stuff like, "Oh but we will always struggle with sin" or "We still have that old sin nature" we are not being STRONG in the Lord and His Promises. And we wonder why people struggle? If your words carry the power of life and death, is this speaking life or death? Is this agreeing with God and His promises or with the enemies accusations?

9Proclaim this among the nations:
Consecrate for war;[SUP]c[/SUP]
stir up the mighty men.
Let all the men of war draw near;
let them come up.
10Beat your plowshares into swords,
and your pruning hooks into spears;
let the weak say, “I am a warrior.”

You are a warrior! The Spirit in you is greater than the enemy, you are an overcomer!

Eph 6:11Put on the whole armor of God, that you may be able to stand against the schemes of the devil.

Put on the armor of God, is this fleshly armor? NO. This is Spiritual armor so you can stand against the devil.

12For we do not wrestle against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the cosmic powers over this present darkness, against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly places.

This Scripture shows us the devil's schemes include people, but also spiritual forces. Not just other people, but we don't fight a fleshly battle, but a spiritual one! And we have a spiritual weapons! As we will see... this is how we battle sin.

13Therefore take up the whole armor of God, that you may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand firm. 14Stand therefore, having fastened on the belt of truth, and having put on the breastplate of righteousness,

So our armor is TRUTH. The belt holds everything together. What is this truth that holds everything together? Do you think the truth is that you're a sinner or you're a saint? That you're in Christ and have access to His great precious promises or that you're still waiting for these???

The breastplate is RIGHTEOUSNESS. The breastplate protects the heart, it's a big deal. And His righteousness is YOUR PROTECTION. If you don't believe you're made righteous by Him, how are you going to stand against the enemy? You are righteousness in Christ, this is apart of your new creation reality.

15and, as shoes for your feet, having put on the readiness given by the gospel of peace.

Your shoes, your movement, is the goodness of peace. It keeps you moving. The enemy wants to try to tell you that you don't have peace with God, but your warfare with Him has ended. This is the good news! If you're still trying to have peace with God, put your armor plated shoes on!

1Comfort, comfort my people, says your God.
2Speak tenderly to Jerusalem,
and cry to her
that her warfare[SUP]a[/SUP] is ended,
that her iniquity is pardoned,
that she has received from the Lord’s hand
double for all her sins.

Eph 6:16In all circumstances take up the shield of faith, with which you can extinguish all the flaming darts of the evil one;

The Shield is what is built to protect us from the enemy's weapons. The enemy uses flaming darts! What do you think these are? These are the things that condemn you, they focus on you instead of who you are in Christ, they say you're just a man, you're not a Son of God, if you were a Son of God turn these stones to bread! (Sound familiar?)

If you are having a lot of attacking thoughts focusing on who you're not instead of who He is, put up your shield! You're in Christ. You're loved. You're free. Run and set other's free!

These are not fleshly fights... this is not with our flesh... we are in the flesh, but we don't war with it.
2 Co 10:2I beg of you that when I am present I may not have to show boldness with such confidence as I count on showing against some who suspect us of walking according to the flesh.

Paul says here that people who think they walk according to the flesh are WRONG.

2 Co 10:3For though we walk in the flesh, we are not waging war according to the flesh.

This Scripture will set you free. Though we walk IN the flesh, we are NOT waging war according to the flesh.

4For the weapons of our warfare are not of the flesh but have divine power to destroy strongholds.

Our spiritual weapons destroy strongholds, so where is the battle???

5We destroy arguments and every lofty opinion raised against the knowledge of God, and take every thought captive to obey Christ,

The battle is IN YOUR HEAD. These are thoughts... that's why the next piece of armor is the helmet.

Eph 6:17and take the helmet of salvation, and the sword of the Spirit, which is the word of God, 18praying at all times in the Spirit, with all prayer and supplication.

The helmet that protects your mind is that you are SAVED. You are delivered! And the SWORD of the Spirit is the Word of God. This is the RHEMA word of God, which means what Holy Spirit is speaking right now, today, every word that proceeds out of His mouth not proceeded out. We gotta have a relationship with the Holy Spirit. He will highlight Scriptures, He will give you what to declare, He will bring life to the letter, He will transform us from the inside out! Use your Sword! Praying all TIMES in the Spirit! We read Scripture with Him as our Teacher!

Each piece of armor and weapon has been given, truth, righteousness, peace, the word, the spirit, and prayer. These are to keep us BUILT UP. To keep us STANDING. Standing in what? Standing in Christ! Make no mistake about it, the battle of your life is for one thing. Your identity.

The enemy doesn't have new schemes. He did the same to Eve and to Jesus.

To Eve: He said to the woman, “Did God actually say, ‘You[SUP]a[/SUP] shall not eat of any tree in the garden’?” 2And the woman said to the serpent, “We may eat of the fruit of the trees in the garden, 3but God said, ‘You shall not eat of the fruit of the tree that is in the midst of the garden, neither shall you touch it, lest you die.’” 4But the serpent said to the woman, “You will not surely die. 5For God knows that when you eat of it your eyes will be opened, and you will be like God, knowing good and evil.”

1. Did God actually say? Did He actually say you were created like Him? If that was true why are you still struggling with sin? You need to fix yourself, have some more religion, focus on what you shouldn't be doing more, it will set you free... because you're not actually already like Him. God knows that if you focus on more knowledge of good and evil, well then you'll be like Him. But He doesn't want that.

But what is the number one thing we are called to be like? HIM! You ARE made in His image. You are in Christ.

And to Jesus: "If You are the Son of God," he said, "throw Yourself down. For it is written: 'He will command His angels concerning You, and they will lift You up in their hands, so that You will not strike Your foot against a stone.'"

Sound familiar??? If you really are in Christ, then you'd do this and this, etc. The Father had just told Jesus you are my Son in whom I'm well pleased and what does the enemy do? Did God actually say you are a Son? If so, prove it. But Jesus didn't react to the enemy's lie out of fear, He responded to God out of faith. We are called to do the same.

You might struggle. And that's okay. Focus on Him. He HAS set you free. And just keep remembering His promises, renew your mind to what He says! Keep that helmet on! Remember your righteousness! You have peace with God keep moving! Stay in relationship with the Spirit! Cast down any thought that says you are NOT who God says you are. You are in Christ! You are set free! And you are an overcomer. Use your spiritual weapons and STAND in Him.

C.

P.S. On the topic of your fleshly body. Offer your body as a living sacrifice.

Romans 12:Therefore, I urge you, brothers and sisters, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as a living sacrifice, holy and pleasing to God--this is your true and proper worship.

The flesh DOES NOT control you. You can offer it to God as a living sacrifice.

 

[HisHolly]

It's like John said. Those who say they have no sin 'nature' deceive themselves. He simply called it having sin.

If we say that we have no sin, we deceive ourselves, and the truth is not in us. 1 John 1:8​

If you have a sin nature you are still unregenerated.

But the verse doesn't say clearly that the Christian still has a sin nature. If we start with the assumption that the Christian has a sin nature, we could take it to mean this, but it is surely not a proof text that the Christian still has a sin nature.

Do you have any clear verse that says the Christian still has a sin nature?

If you read the beginning of 1 John he uses the word proclaim.. We are proclaiming to you.. It's not addressed to a church.. It reads as though the people who it is to have never heard the content before.. no need to proclaim twice.. He could have lumped all people together to say " if we say" ... Doesn't mean he actually meant everyone at that time, but rather at any time when the Gospel or teaching related is proclaimed to anyone.. We wouldn't be here if nobody had sin type thing..

If that doesn't make sense feel free to disagree or show error..

 

[HeRoseFromTheDead]

If you read the beginning of 1 John he uses the word proclaim.. We are proclaiming to you.. It's not addressed to a church.. It reads as though the people who it is to have never heard the content before.. no need to proclaim twice.. He could have lumped all people together to say " if we say" ... Doesn't mean he actually meant everyone at that time, but rather at any time when the Gospel or teaching related is proclaimed to anyone.. We wouldn't be here if nobody had sin type thing..

If that doesn't make sense feel free to disagree or show error..

This is what's known as a non-sequitur.

From this:

We are proclaiming to you..​

To this:

It's not addressed to a church​

It doesn't follow.

 

[samang]

Hi , Thank for the share the bible . I am very clearly about it .

 

[PeterJens]

A new creation

The problem with using this term to mean your true nature is it is spiritualising or separating out something that cannot be separated. Paul is emphasising how we have become something different. It is though just a foundation.

As a child of God you can sow to the Spirit or to the carnal nature. It is your choice. We are called to walk in purity and righteousness, obedience to Christ and our calling.

Now this is a simple thing to put here, but why do I lust, get angry, hate that person, get irritated, frustrated, explode?

This is what is the tension between the surface behaviour and what is going on inside. And this is where most people stop and walk away. It is what makes hypocracy and legalism thrive, and what Jesus critised the pharisees for. Not sorting out the heart, not taking purity and righteousness seriously.

But what is the key? Repentance, confession and forgiveness. Working through the issues inside, letting love apply to all aspects of your life and attitude, accepting Jesus loves you not just at the surface but deep in your soul.

Now hyper grace argue this is self-righteousness and legalism. They dilute and remove the meaning of repentance and confession, and claim the believer has arrived at the gift of faith. They refute the sermon on the mount as anything else than a testimony of failure. So in a real sense for us they block people from entering the Kingdom and growing in Jesus.

They equally accuse us of trying to earn salvation and working to heaven, claiming you just have to realise you are perfect to be perfect. Strangely this has never worked. But they are actually lying. They are really saying you are always a failure, always in slavery to sin, but redeemed in Christ, so it is a illusion to walk in faith to victory, because it is just Christs victory we claim though do not practice. So it is a form of religion, pretending things are different while still staying in the world.

 

[PeterJens]

Foundational teaching - We are sinners.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Confessing their sins, they were baptized by him in the Jordan River.

For if you forgive other people when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you.

Above all, love each other deeply, because love covers over a multitude of sins.

Brothers and sisters, if someone is caught in a sin, you who live by the Spirit should restore that person gently. But watch yourselves, or you also may be tempted.

Jesus replied, “Very truly I tell you, everyone who sins is a slave to sin."

And, “If it is hard for the righteous to be saved, what will become of the ungodly and the sinner?”

So then, dear friends, since you are looking forward to this, make every effort to be found spotless, blameless and at peace with him.

If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just and will forgive us our sins and purify us from all unrighteousness.

Blessed are the pure in heart, for they will see God.

You see that a person is considered righteous by what they do and not by faith alone.

set an example for the believers in speech, in conduct, in love, in faith and in purity.

Dear children, do not let anyone lead you astray. The one who does what is right is righteous, just as he is righteous.

Therefore everyone who hears these words of mine and puts them into practice is like a wise man who built his house on the rock.

Matt 9:13, 1 Peter 2:22, James 4:8, John 8:51, Matt 7:24, Matt 3:6, Matt 6:14, 1 Peter 4:8, Gal 6:1, John 8:34, 1 Peter 4:18, 2 Peter 3:14, 1 John 1:9, Matt 5:8, James 2:24, 1 Tim 4:12, 1 John 3:7, Matt 7:24

 

[PeterJens]

The gospel is simple. Follow Jesus, have faith in Him, and as you struggle to obey, you will be changed. It is by trying you find the barriers that block you, then what needs to be overcome.

Without trying you do not know what the problem is, and so never gain victory. No one can tell you what you will find, because each is individual, a unique story.

If you never try, then you stay as you are.

 

[Grace777x70]

In line with the new creation in Christ which is mystical to the natural humanistic mindset - here is what the scriptures say concerning a new heart that is given to us because we are in Him.

The gospel is simple - the Father says believe in Christ and what He has done for us. We are called "believers" for a reason.

The understanding of what happened to us when we received Christ should be known by every believer. We are a new creation in Christ with has a new heart.

Without the understanding of the new heart in Christ we can understand why the gospel is a mystery to some and their need to humanize the gospel and turn it into a flesh trip becomes evident.

This philosophy of man is what we end up with when we don't understand the new birth in Christ and what the scriptures actually say about the believer in Christ.

The believers new heart in Christ is created in righteousness and holiness: First it was prophesied in the Old Testament.

Ezekiel 36:26 (NASB)
[SUP]26 [/SUP] "Moreover, I will give you a new heart and put a new spirit within you; and I will remove the heart of stone ( old man ) from your flesh and give you a heart of flesh. ( new man in Christ )


Romans 2:29 (NASB)
[SUP]29 [/SUP] But he is a Jew who is one inwardly; and circumcision is that which is of the heart, by the Spirit, not by the letter; and his praise is not from men, but from God.

By grace we have been given a new heart that is obedient.

Romans 6:17 (NASB)
[SUP]17 [/SUP] But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were committed,

God cleaned house and moved in. God will not dwell in unrighteousness. God through the Holy Spirit is in our inner man now.

Ephesians 3:16-17 (NASB)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

[SUP]17 [/SUP] so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

God sealed us and gave us the Holy Spirit in our new hearts.

2 Corinthians 1:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] who also sealed us and gave us the Spirit in our hearts as a pledge.

We have the Spirit of God's Son in our hearts now.

Galatians 4:6 (NASB)
[SUP]6 [/SUP] Because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of His Son into our hearts, crying, "Abba! Father!"

God has cleansed our hearts by faith.

Acts 15:8-9 (NASB)
[SUP]8 [/SUP] "And God, who knows the heart, testified to them giving them the Holy Spirit, just as He also did to us;
[SUP]9 [/SUP] and He made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.

We love from our hearts now as it is pure.

1 Timothy 1:5 (NASB)
[SUP]5 [/SUP] But the goal of our instruction is love from a pure heart and a good conscience and a sincere faith.

2 Timothy 2:22 (NASB)
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Now flee from youthful lusts and pursue righteousness, faith, love and peace, with those who call on the Lord from a pure heart. (this is a believer in Christ..hang around them )

1 Peter 3:4 (NASB)
[SUP]4 [/SUP] but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God.

There are more but this should work to show that the believer has a new heart in Christ.

We still have the flesh to deal with in our bodies and if we are admonished to not to yield to that and walk by the Spirit...but all that is a different subject.

 

[FreeNChrist]

A new creation

The problem with using this term to mean your true nature is it is spiritualising or separating out something that cannot be separated.

It's the term that God uses, which you seem totally oblivious to. And He uses it specifically so that those who are new creations in Christ will know that they have been separated from their old sinful nature.


"Therefore if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creature; the old things passed away; behold, new things have come." 2 Cor 5:17 NASB

"Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, the new creation has come: The old has gone, the new is here!" 2 Cor 5:17 NIV

"Therefore if anyone is in Christ [that is, grafted in, joined to Him by faith in Him as Savior], he is a new creature [reborn and renewed by the Holy Spirit]; the old things [the previous moral and spiritual condition] have passed away. Behold, new things have come [because spiritual awakening brings a new life]." 2 Cor 5:17 AMP

 

[LaurenTM]

The OP is known as a teacher of hyper grace doctrine.

and what are you known as?

i'm asking because I don't get this hyper caffientated thing and it sounds made up

so, what shall we call you?

 

[LaurenTM]

I believe, and know that many have been convinced in their own minds they are born again of the Spirit, but their own words and actions prove otherwise.

a fruit inspector?

please read my tagline LOL!

squirt

 

[FreeNChrist]

Foundational teaching - We are sinners.

Foundational error - We are sinners.

Foundational truth - We are saints.

 

[LaurenTM]

Forsooth:

I now claim this a hyper grace free zone

I don't think it ever showed up anyway even though I am not sure what to look for

I do think there is some bullying going on and some nitpicking and some sort of old fight. Seems to be embedded like a tired old video no one wants to watch for 13th time; not even a bored child