getting dates about a young earth

[trofimus]

great!

so if data collected from the natural world indicates an old universe, then that can still fit with six calendar-days.

but I don't understand
"I just dont think this theory fits in the complexity of proofs we have about the age of Universe."


how does it not fit?

God would have to fake many things, for example:
1. fossil records of millions of animals and plants that would never existed
2. ice layers, meteorits impacts that never happened
3. remnants of ancient humanoids or people in caves, paintings in caves, their tools etc, that would never happend in reality
4. distant stars
5. history of universe like the death of stars we can see in our telescopes - that would also never happend

It is possible to believe that and you would get Bible and Science "in line", but I dont think this view is credible.

does this fit with what you're saying:

the israelites worked six days and rested the seventh as a way of reenacting the story of God making everything in six stages and resting the seventh?

Why not?

information about long lives would be more in how many total years they lived than how old they were when one of their sons was born... gen 5 contains high ages (decreasing) when son is born, gen 11 is comparable to today... imo...


I'm interested in any information you have about no non-telescoped genealogies... so yes, take some time and research it... plzzzz

I personally find that interesting, that Adam was 230 years old when having son, Enos 190 etc. For me, this can be the purpose of this data.

So far I have found this - Reasons To Believe : The Genesis Genealogies
The argument that all genealogies in Bible are telescoped in some rate was in a youtube debate, so it is not easy to find on google.

what does mainstream science say about humans living almost a thousand years back then?

Google it China, Egypt, Summer...

 

[trofimus]

I did. I said you're reading into it something that isn't there. Maybe Tin can give us some Hebrew to clarify what the words "let" and "bring forth" etc are in the original texts. And what I said is relevant to your question.

You did not. You only said you dont trust evolution. Thats all. You said nothing to what does "let the land bring forth creatures" mean, if not evolution.

 

[Sirk]

You did not. You only said you dont trust evolution. Thats all. You said nothing to what does "let the land bring forth creatures" mean, if not evolution.

You weren't listening. I said God spoke....let the land bring forth creatures according to their kind and let waters teem with life. And I said you are reading evolution into it. God spoke and it was so....get it?

 

[Tintin]

I did. I said you're reading into it something that isn't there. Maybe Tin can give us some Hebrew to clarify what the words "let" and "bring forth" etc are in the original texts. And what I said is relevant to your question.

I don't have much.

On Day 6, God didn't create from nothing, but caused living creatures (according to their kinds) to "come out of" (yatsa) the earth. Therefore, the animals have a kinship with the earth, which is appropriate for creatures that would fall under man's dominion (Genesis 1:28). God could have created out of nothing, be He did not.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I don't have much.

On Day 6, God didn't create from nothing, but caused living creatures (according to their kinds) to "come out of" (yatsa) the earth. Therefore, the animals have a kinship with the earth, which is appropriate for creatures that would fall under man's dominion (Genesis 1:28). God could have created out of nothing, be He did not.

Ashes to ashes, dust to dust.

Same goes for all of Gods creatures. From the earth it came, to the earth it will return..

Thanks, I loved this explanation of how God did not create animals or man out of nothing it makes perfect sense

 

[notuptome]

You did not get my point.
To say "let the earth bring forth creatures" is not the same as to say "let there be creatures".

So I ask you how exactly the earth brought forth creatures of all kinds.

The earth provided the basis for the animals and the plants for that matter. God formed Adam from the dust of the earth so in every sense Adam came forth from the earth.

The earth and it's elements brought forth the animals but God gave them life. Only the divine will of God can create order where none existed. All the forces of nature cannot produce life. A tornado going through a junkyard cannot create a space shuttle.

Darwin never attempted to explain the origin of life only to describe the likenesses between the species. Correlation is not causation. Animals adapting to their environment is not evolution toward a new species. Among humans there is great diversity but all are still humans even though it seems that no two are identical.

The earth will no doubt be old by the time you figure things out.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Tintin]

That God created all living creatures according to their kind knocks evolution for six.

Kinds are this - family or genus.
Example: A wolf-kind led to wolves, foxes, coyotes, dingoes, domestic dogs etc.
A cat-kind led to lions, tigers, pumas, panthers, lynx, domestic cats etc.

It's not a tree of life, like with evolution. It's an orchard of life where one kind gives rise to many different species, but never another kind.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

God would have to fake many things, for example:
1. fossil records of millions of animals and plants that would never existed
2. ice layers, meteorits impacts that never happened
3. remnants of ancient humanoids or people in caves, paintings in caves, their tools etc, that would never happend in reality
4. distant stars
5. history of universe like the death of stars we can see in our telescopes - that would also never happend

It is possible to believe that and you would get Bible and Science "in line", but I dont think this view is credible.

Yet a universal. Catachlismic, earth shattering, catostrophic ancient flood explains all these things..

 

[Sirk]

Yet a universal. Catachlismic, earth shattering, catostrophic ancient flood explains all these things..

Not to mention upright trees and animals trapped in the earth from what was obviously a cataclysmic event. Then you have the issue if soft tissue...lol......that was recently discovered inside a T rex bone.

 

[Tintin]

Not to mention upright trees and animals trapped in the earth from what was obviously a cataclysmic event. Then you have the issue if soft tissue...lol......that was recently discovered inside a T rex bone.

Right, brother. Not to mention, if standard uniformitarian geology ages were true, it would only take about 17 million years to erode a whole continent. Obviously, that didn't happen. So we have to question what happened and why and look for alternatives to the old earth mythologies.

 

[BeyondET]

Statements Consistent With Paleontology

• Dinosaurs are referred to in several Bible books. The book of Job describes two dinosaurs. One is described in chapter 40 starting at verse 15, and the other in chapter 41 starting at verse 1. most people do not even realize that they are mentioned in the Bible.

Statements Consistent With Astronomy

• The Bible frequently refers to the great number of stars in the heavens. Here are two examples.
  1. Genesis 22:17
     Blessing I will bless you, and multiplying I will multiply your descendants as the stars of the heaven and as the sand which is on the seashore; and your descendants shall possess the gate of their enemies.
  
  
  1. Jeremiah 33:22
     “As the host of heaven cannot be numbered, nor the sand of the sea measured, so will I multiply the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister to Me.”
  Even today, scientists admit that they do not know how many stars there are. Only about 3,000 can be seen with the naked eye. We have seen estimates of 10[SUP]21[/SUP] stars—which is a lot of stars. (The number of grains of sand on the earth’s seashores is estimated to be 10[SUP]25[/SUP]. As scientists discover more stars, wouldn’t it be interesting to discover that these two numbers match?)
• The Bible also says that each star is unique.
  1. 1 Corinthians 15:41
     There is one glory of the sun, another glory of the moon, and another glory of the stars; for one star differs from another star in glory.
  All stars look alike to the naked eye.* Even when seen through a telescope, they seem to be just points of light. However, analysis of their light spectra reveals that each is unique and different from all others. (*Note: We understand that people can perceive some slight difference in color and apparent brightness when looking at stars with the naked eye, but we would not expect a person living in the first century A.D. to claim they differ from one another.)
• The Bible describes the precision of movement in the universe.
  1. Jeremiah 31:35,36
     Thus says the LORD,
     Who gives the sun for a light by day,
     The ordinances of the moon and the stars for a light by night,
     Who disturbs the sea,
     And its waves roar
     (The LORD of hosts is His name):
     “If those ordinances depart
     From before Me, says the LORD,
     Then the seed of Israel shall also cease
     From being a nation before Me forever.”
• The Bible describes the suspension of the Earth in space.
  1. Job 26:7
     He stretches out the north over empty space;
     He hangs the earth on nothing.

Statements Consistent With Meteorology

• The Bible describes the circulation of the atmosphere.
  1. Ecclesiastes 1:6
     The wind goes toward the south,
     And turns around to the north;
     The wind whirls about continually,
     And comes again on its circuit.
• The Bible includes some principles of fluid dynamics.
  1. Job 28:25
     To establish a weight for the wind,
     And apportion the waters by measure.
  The fact that air has weight was proven scientifically only about 300 years ago. The relative weights of air and water are needed for the efficient functioning of the world’s hydrologic cycle, which in turn sustains life on the earth.

Statements Consistent With Biology

• The book of Leviticus (written prior to 1400 BC) describes the value of blood.
  1. Leviticus 17:11
     ‘For the life of the flesh is in the blood, and I have given it to you upon the altar to make atonement for your souls; for it is the blood that makes atonement for the soul.’
  The blood carries water and nourishment to every cell, maintains the body’s temperature, and removes the waste material of the body’s cells. The blood also carries oxygen from the lungs throughout the body. In 1616, William Harvey discovered that blood circulation is the key factor in physical life—confirming what the Bible revealed 3,000 years earlier.
• The Bible describes biogenesis (the development of living organisms from other living organisms) and the stability of each kind of living organism.
  1. Genesis 1:11,12
     Then God said, “Let the earth bring forth grass, the herb that yields seed, andthe fruit tree that yields fruit according to its kind, whose seed is in itself, on the earth”; and it was so. And the earth brought forth grass, the herb that yields seed according to its kind, and the tree that yields fruit, whose seed is in itself according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
  
  
  1. Genesis 1:21
     So God created great sea creatures and every living thing that moves, with which the waters abounded, according to their kind, and every winged bird according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
  
  
  1. Genesis 1:25
     And God made the beast of the earth according to its kind, cattle according to its kind, and everything that creeps on the earth according to its kind. And God saw that it was good.
  The phrase “according to its kind” occurs repeatedly, stressing the reproductive integrity of each kind of animal and plant. Today we know this occurs because all of these reproductive systems are programmed by their genetic codes.
• The Bible describes the chemical nature of flesh.
  1. Genesis 2:7
     And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being.
  
  
  1. Genesis 3:19
     In the sweat of your face you shall eat bread
     Till you return to the ground,
     For out of it you were taken;
     For dust you are,
     And to dust you shall return.
• It is a proven fact that a person’s mental and spiritual health is strongly correlated with physical health. The Bible revealed this to us with these statements (and others) written by King Solomon about 950 BC.
  1. Proverbs 12:4
     An excellent wife is the crown of her husband,
     But she who causes shame is like rottenness in his bones.
  
  
  1. Proverbs 14:30
     A sound heart is life to the body,
     But envy is rottenness to the bones.
  
  
  1. Proverbs 15:30
     The light of the eyes rejoices the heart,
     And a good report makes the bones healthy.
  
  
  1. Proverbs 16:24
     Pleasant words are like a honeycomb,
     Sweetness to the soul and health to the bones.
  
  
  1. Proverbs 17:22
     A merry heart does good, like medicine,
     But a broken spirit dries the bones.

Statements Consistent With Anthropology

• We have cave paintings and other evidence that people inhabited caves. The Bible also describes cave men.
  1. Job 30:5,6
     They were driven out from among men,
     They shouted at them as at a thief.
     They had to live in the clefts of the valleys,
     In caves of the earth and the rocks.
  Note that these were not ape-men, but descendants of those who scattered from Babel. They were driven from the community by those tribes who competed successfully for the more desirable regions of the earth. Then for some reason they deteriorated mentally, physically, and spiritually. (Go into a bad part of your town and you will see this concept in action today.)

Statements Consistent With Hydrology

• The bible includes reasonably complete descriptions of the hydrologic cycle.
  1. Psalm 135:7
     He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth;
     He makes lightning for the rain;
     He brings the wind out of His treasuries.
  
  
  1. Jeremiah 10:13
     When He utters His voice,
     There is a multitude of waters in the heavens:
     “And He causes the vapors to ascend from the ends of the earth.
     He makes lightning for the rain,
     He brings the wind out of His treasuries.”
  In these verses you can see several phases of the hydrologic cycle—the worldwide processes of evaporation, translation aloft by atmospheric circulation, condensation with electrical discharges, and precipitation.
  
  1. Job 36:27-29
     For He draws up drops of water,
     Which distill as rain from the mist,
     Which the clouds drop down
     And pour abundantly on man.
     Indeed, can anyone understand the spreading of clouds,
     The thunder from His canopy?
  This simple verse has remarkable scientific insight. The drops of water which eventually pour down as rain first become vapor and then condense to tiny liquid water droplets in the clouds. These finally coalesce into drops large enough to overcome the updrafts that suspend them in the air.
• The Bible describes the recirculation of water.
  1. Ecclesiastes 1:7
     All the rivers run into the sea,
     Yet the sea is not full;
     To the place from which the rivers come,
     There they return again.
  
  
  1. Isaiah 55:10
     For as the rain comes down, and the snow from heaven,
     And do not return there,
     But water the earth,
     And make it bring forth and bud,
     That it may give seed to the sower
     And bread to the eater,
• The Bible refers to the surprising amount of water that can be held as condensation in clouds.
  1. Job 26:8
     He binds up the water in His thick clouds,
     Yet the clouds are not broken under it.
  
  
  1. Job 37:11
     Also with moisture He saturates the thick clouds;
     He scatters His bright clouds.
• Hydrothermal vents are described in two books of the Bible written before 1400BC—more than 3,000 years before their discovery by science.
  1. Genesis 7:11
     In the six hundredth year of Noah’s life, in the second month, the seventeenth day of the month, on that day all the fountains of the great deep were broken up, and the windows of heaven were opened.
  
  
  1. Job 38:16
     Have you entered the springs of the sea?
     Or have you walked in search of the depths?

Statements Consistent With Geology

• The Bible describes the Earth’s crust (along with a comment on astronomy).
  1. Jeremiah 31:37
     Thus says the LORD:
     “If heaven above can be measured,
     And the foundations of the earth searched out beneath,
     I will also cast off all the seed of Israel
     For all that they have done, says the LORD.”
  Although some scientists claim that they have now measured the size of the universe, it is interesting to note that every human attempt to drill through the earth’s crust to the plastic mantle beneath has, thus far, ended in failure.
• The Bible described the shape of the earth centuries before people thought that the earth was spherical.
  1. Isaiah 40:22
     It is He who sits above the circle of the earth,
     And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers,
     Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain,
     And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in.
  The word translated “circle” here is the Hebrew word chuwg which is also translated “circuit,” or “compass” (depending on the context). That is, it indicates something spherical, rounded, or arched—not something that is flat or square.
  The book of Isaiah was written sometime between 740 and 680 BC. This is at least 300 years before Aristotle suggested that the earth might be a sphere in this book On the Heavens.
  This brings up an important historical note related to this topic. Many people are aware of the conflict between Galileo and the Roman Catholic Pope, Paul V. After publishing A Dialogue on the Two Principal Systems of the World, Galileo was summoned to Rome, where he was forced to renounce his findings. (At that time, “theologians” of the Roman Catholic Church maintained that the Earth was the center of the universe, and to assert otherwise was deemed heretical.)
  We could not find any place in the Bible that claims that the Earth is flat, or that it is the center of the universe. History shows that this conflict, which took place at the time of the Inquisition, was part of a power struggle. As a result, scientific and biblical knowledge became casualties—an effect we still feel to this day.

Statements Consistent With Physics

• The Bible suggests the presence of nuclear processes like those we associate with nuclear weaponry. This is certainly not something that could have been explained in 67 AD using known scientific principles (when Peter wrote the following verse).
  1. 2 Peter 3:10
     But the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night, in which the heavens will pass away with a great noise, and the elements will melt with fervent heat; both the earth and the works that are in it will be burned up

 

[trofimus]

You weren't listening. I said God spoke....let the land bring forth creatures according to their kind and let waters teem with life. And I said you are reading evolution into it. God spoke and it was so....get it?

So when I say to you: "Bring me that orange", it means I will bring it myself without you doing anything?
That seems silly.

 

[trofimus]

Yet a universal. Catachlismic, earth shattering, catostrophic ancient flood explains all these things..

Ehm, actually.... how would flood explained ANY of these problems?

For better reading, try to write it to every point so that we will not have to join various answers together:

God would have to fake many things, for example:
1. fossil records of millions of animals and plants that would never existed
2. ice layers, meteorits impacts that never happened
3. remnants of ancient humanoids or people in caves, paintings in caves, their tools etc, that would never happend in reality
4. distant stars
5. history of universe like the death of stars we can see in our telescopes - that would also never happend

 

[notuptome]

So when I say to you: "Bring me that orange", it means I will bring it myself without you doing anything?
That seems silly.

No what is silly is you believing that you can do anything apart from God.

When God said let the earth bring forth the earth had only the authority God gave unto it. The earth could do nothing of itself. It was the determinate will of God that brought forth through the earth just as God brings forth salvation in men by His will through grace.

For you to go get the orange God must enable you to go and God must make the orange.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Sirk]

So when I say to you: "Bring me that orange", it means I will bring it myself without you doing anything?
That seems silly.

I'll bring it to you if you say please but it isn't me who brought it into existence. Lol

 

[trofimus]

I'll bring it to you if you say please but it isn't me who brought it into existence. Lol

If you would be an orange tree or land, it would be you who would bring it into existence...

 

[Sirk]

If you would be an orange tree or land, it would be you who would bring it into existence...

Well then you'd have to come get it yourself cuz I wouldn't have legs to walk it over to you. Lol

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Not to mention upright trees and animals trapped in the earth from what was obviously a cataclysmic event. Then you have the issue if soft tissue...lol......that was recently discovered inside a T rex bone.

How about frozen mammoths, With food still in their mouths which is edible.

Science says the outside temp would have to drop to -150 to -175 immediately for this to occure. How did that happen?

 

[trofimus]

Well then you'd have to come get it yourself cuz I wouldn't have legs to walk it over to you. Lol

But you could produce it by natural processes - from land and trees. And that is what is said in Bible

 

[trofimus]

How about frozen mammoths, With food still in their mouths which is edible.

Science says the outside temp would have to drop to -150 to -175 immediately for this to occure. How did that happen?

Water freezes in 0 degrees Celsia. Nothing extraordinary in Siberia, right?
What science says what you said it says? Do you have source? And, please, not icr and similar websites