Tithe!

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fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
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fredoheaven...

What a fairy tale you are spinning! Do you make all this stuff as you go along? Because you are unable to come up with Scripture to prove that God commanded the New Testament believer to tithe 10% of their gross income, is this the result?

The biblical tithe was never money (and never will be money because God is immutable) The biblical tithe was agricultural (crops and flocks) only from within the land of Israel. Therefore our Lord Jesus Christ was not required to tithe. He was not a farmer or herder.

Pretty soon you are going to run of of "fables" to spin.
Okay, lets take a break... here is an interesting article that might give refreshments... May God grant your desire Ma'am!:)

Yes, Jesus was a carpenter (Mark 6:3), but why? He could have been anything. Unlike us, He was not limited by natural talent or opportunity. Nothing was beyond His capability or beyond His control. He was a jack-of-all-trades, ten-talent man, prodigy, and genius all rolled into one. He could have been born into any family circumstance He wanted or attended any educational institution He chose. He could have had any profession.
This line of reasoning presents some interesting possibilities.
Jesus did not choose to be a farmer, but He is the Sower that went forth to sow. There would have been some logic in the Son of God coming as a farmer. He was the One who gave us seedtime and harvest in the first place (Genesis 8:22; John 1:3). He created the very earth itself and put life into the tiny seed (Genesis 1:11-12). He made the earth fertile, trees fruitful, and vegetables edible. He invented the water cycle and gave the former and latter rain in time for harvest (Ecclesiastes 1:7; Jeremiah 5:24; Matthew 5:45). To be the provider for man's basic needs would be appropriate for the One who had given manna from heaven (Exodus 16), Israel a land that flowed with milk and honey (Exodus 3:8; Exodus 13:5), and Elijah and the widow a constantly full flour barrel and oil cruse (1 Kings 17:14).
Nonetheless, so far as we know Jesus never picked up a hoe nor picked a tomato. He never inhaled the scent of newly turned earth nor felt the sweat run down His back as He picked beans under a hot July sun. He never smiled as he saw the first bud breaking the ground in the spring, or sighed as the last wagonload of produce came out of the field in the fall.
This is all true, but He was still the Sower that went forth to sow (Matthew 13:3). His seed brought forth thirtyfold, sixty-fold, and one hundredfold (Mark 4:8). "He filled the hungry with good things; and the rich he hath sent empty away" (Luke 1:53). And on Pentecost, He watched as His crop brought forth three thousand souls (Acts 2:41).
What is involved in Jesus being the Sower?
Jesus purchased a farm.
He has a big, expensive farm - the whole world (Psalm 24:1; Mark 16:15). Someone calculated that there are 1,486,471,876,165 acres in the world. The average cost is about $1500/acre (in the U.S.), so using that as a base figure, one could theoretically purchase the surface of the earth for $2,229,707,814,247,500. As much as a tad over two quadrillion is, it is not as much as the purchase price for Jesus' farm - it cost Him His own blood (Acts 20:28).
Jesus sows seeds.
The seed of the kingdom still possesses life-generating power (Luke 8:11; Mark 4:14). The Holy Spirit works through that Word in conversion (Ephesians 6:17).
Why is the Word compared to seed? Both seem insignificant but possess great power (Genesis 1:11; Romans 1:16). A small acorn looks harmless enough, but given the right conditions, it can grow large enough to remove a house from its foundations. God's Word, like a seed, is quick [living], and powerful (Hebrews 4:12;Galatians 6:7-8; cf. 2 Timothy 4:2). Unlike men's written words, God's Word has life in it; and that life can be imparted to those who will believe and obey it. It can generate new life. No other book can do that.
The seed only grows in one place: the human heart (Luke 8:15). There are four kinds of soil - hearts:

  • Wayside soil - the hardhearted hearer (Matthew 13:19; Luke 8:11-12). If a person continues in this hardened condition, he will never be saved (2 Corinthians 4:3). This is one reason it is important to reach the young people before they become hardened in sin (85 percent of the people who become Christians do so before age 18).
  • Shallow soil - the stony place hearer (Matthew 13:20; Luke 8:13). We are warned, Be ye doers of the word, and not hearers only, deceiving your own selves (James 1:22).
  • Divided soil - the thorny place hearers (Matthew 13:22; Luke 8:14). Just as weeds grow in a field, weeds (such as selfishness, lust, dishonesty, relativism, ungodly tolerance, and immorality) can grow in our hearts. We can ignore them and let them choke the Word or pull them out and save our souls.
  • Receptive soil - the good ground hearers (Matthew 13:23; Luke 8:15).
    The seeds in the parable are all of the same nature, sown from the same bag by the same sower. The only variable is the type of soil it encounters.
Jesus prunes vines.
I am the true vine, and my Father is the husbandman. Every branch in me that beareth not fruit he taketh away: and every branch that beareth fruit, he purgeth it, that it may bring forth more fruit (John 15:1-2). Jesus stays involved in the lives of His followers, operating through His providence to better prepare us for the transplanting into the heavenly garden.
Jesus harvests fruit.
Jesus wants to pick you and me as choice fruit and store us forever in His celestial barn (Matthew 13:30). Sure, most folks want to live in a mansion, but a barn will satisfy me - but not just any barn. I want to live in God's barn! In the Parable of the Tares, Jesus pictures the end of the world as a harvest when weeds and wheat are separated. The tares (representing the ungodly) will be bundled and burned (be lost in the lake of fire). The wheat will be gathered into my barn - heaven (Matthew 13:30).
For someone who never picked up a hoe, Jesus surely has done a lot of farming.

What Jesus Was, But Was Not: A Farmer : House to House
 
L

Linda70

Guest
fredoheaven....

Looks like you're still spinning "fables". I see that you are using the parable of the sower out of context to prove that Jesus tithed? You argue from silence and there is a lot of supposition in your weak arguments.

"A parable is a comparison between material and spiritual truth, designed to teach doctrine and obedience." (Bruce Lackey)

A parable is given to teach ONE central truth. Tithing is not the ONE central truth of the parable of the sower.

I don't buy into any of what you are trying to say...but nice try.
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,048
949
113
fredoheaven....

Looks like you're still spinning "fables". I see that you are using the parable of the sower out of context to prove that Jesus tithed? You argue from silence and there is a lot of supposition in your weak arguments.

"A parable is a comparison between material and spiritual truth, designed to teach doctrine and obedience." (Bruce Lackey)

A parable is given to teach ONE central truth. Tithing is not the ONE central truth of the parable of the sower.

I don't buy into any of what you are trying to say...but nice try.
Hi Ma'am Linda,

Sure no to fables and would rather pray for the peace of Jerusalem. No offense. Glad to meet:)
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,048
949
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If a Gentile believer in Christ during Paul's day got circumcised according to the Law, and claimed to do so "by grace" what do you think Paul would have to say to him?
Ephesians 6:1 Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.
Ephesians 6:2 Honour thy father and mother; (which is the first commandment with promise

If a Gentile believer in Christ during Paul's day got circumcised according to the Law, and claimed to do so "by grace" what do you think Paul would have to say to him?

That’s an “if” situation…and that’s circumcision, a common problem during Paul’s day which concerned salvation but we are not talking about salvation.

When Paul says ”Honour thy father and mother” according to the Law, and claimed to do so “by grace” what do you think of Paul have to say to him?
 
Aug 28, 2013
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When giving money to a religious organization, one can share any monetary amount one chooses; be it 1%,10%,or 100%.


The problem is not in the individual choosing himself/herself how much money he/she will give to a religious institution, as 2 Corinthians 9:7 clearly instructs each man to give “as he purposeth in his heart”.


The problem is when the giver is giving 10% of his money to the religious organization he attends because:


a) Leviticus 27:30 says, “The tithe is the Lord’s; it is holy to the Lord.”
b) Malachi 3:8-9 state that non tither’s are robbing God.
c) Malachi 3:8-9 says non tither’s are cursed.
d) Malachi 3:10 says to bring the tithe to the storeHouse
e) Jesus said in the Gospels that tithing is to be done.
f) The Preacher says that God requires us to tithe our monetary income to the Church.


Why are the above examples problematic? In examples a – e, one is attempting to tithe because of what is written in the Law, yet:


1) they are not wanting to tithe what the LORD said His holy tithe was to consist of; i.e., agricultural products;
2) they are not wanting to tithe where the LORD said His holy tithe was to be taken; i.e., farming communities in the land of Canaan;
3) they are not wanting to tithe to who the LORD said His holy tithe was to be given; i.e., Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in the land of Canaan.


In other words, they are claiming to obey the Law of tithing while pointing to Mosaic Law, yet they offend in several points of the Law. The Apostle James said that to offend in one point of the Law, is to be guilty of all.


Why is example f above problematic? Aside from the obvious fact that the Preacher is lying when he says God requires us to tithe, (see Psalms 147:19-20 & Acts 15:19-20,28-29) it contradicts 2 Corinthians 9:7. It is another person dictating the giving, instead of the givers choice as to what he/she will give.
 
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StandingFirmInChrist....
What a refreshing, simple approach to this 'tithing" issue! No complication here. It puts things into perspective, indeed. God loves a cheerful giver. Nobody can out-give God. Yes, a local church, especially when wanting to be separated from being dictated by State and Governmental institutions, needs the financial support of it's members to survive. Electricity, sewer, water and upkeep of the physical building and grounds is a must. A man of GOD is worthy of his hire. I understand that, being raised as a pastor's son. Every year, my dad had to sell off something in order to pay his State and Federal taxes. We were kept humble and poor as a church mouse, as some church members thought we should. There seems to be a double standard going on. GOD does indeed bless, but those blessings can be seen by others as being SELFISH. When a pastor has new suits, new car, new furniture and housing, church members see it in a different way. My dad had to take on secular jobs in order to feed and clothe his family. This, of course, drew him away from always being available to oversee all members at all times. Therein was always a viscous circle. Tithing blesses the giver as much as the ones who benefit from the tithe! GOD's standard is so much higher!
 

fredoheaven

Senior Member
Nov 17, 2015
4,048
949
113
StandingFirmInChrist....
What a refreshing, simple approach to this 'tithing" issue! No complication here. It puts things into perspective, indeed. God loves a cheerful giver. Nobody can out-give God. Yes, a local church, especially when wanting to be separated from being dictated by State and Governmental institutions, needs the financial support of it's members to survive. Electricity, sewer, water and upkeep of the physical building and grounds is a must. A man of GOD is worthy of his hire. I understand that, being raised as a pastor's son. Every year, my dad had to sell off something in order to pay his State and Federal taxes. We were kept humble and poor as a church mouse, as some church members thought we should. There seems to be a double standard going on. GOD does indeed bless, but those blessings can be seen by others as being SELFISH. When a pastor has new suits, new car, new furniture and housing, church members see it in a different way. My dad had to take on secular jobs in order to feed and clothe his family. This, of course, drew him away from always being available to oversee all members at all times. Therein was always a viscous circle. Tithing blesses the giver as much as the ones who benefit from the tithe! GOD's standard is so much higher!
Good testimony!
 
L

Linda70

Guest
pwrnJC said:
Tithing blesses the giver as much as the ones who benefit from the tithe! GOD's standard is so much higher!
Giving is voluntary. Tithes are paid. One cannot pay tithes with money. God said His tithes were to be agricultural.(Lev. 27:30-33) Therefore, whether or not one wants to call 10% of ones money "tithes", it doesn't make them tithes.

The monetary tithe is a man-made doctrine.

Matthew 15:9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

There is no commandment to tithe 10% of one's income in the entire NT....therefore 10% of one's gross income (commonly called a tithe by most tithe teaching pastors), is NOT God's standard. God's standard is resting in the finished work of the Lord Jesus Christ, not in paying out 10% of one's gross income to the church.
 

Yet

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Jan 4, 2014
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I hate that catch phrase 'You can't out give God'. Then give your whole check a way if you really believe that foolishness.

Get back to us and let us know how that works out.

Thousands of people out give God every Sunday morning/mourning. Talking money, tithes. We out gave God for years. No window of heaven opened up over our poverty. When we stopped tithing, then the blessings started flowing. Imagine that.

Galatians 5:1 So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.

Sounds like good advise to me. We tried both sides on this issue. We tested tithing fully. A nightmare. God said to stop trying to buy His favor? It's all paid up. It's free. The curse has been lifted. Be free from the commandments and traditions of men that makes void His word and brings upon you a curse.

Jesus come preaching the gospel to the who?......the poor! Why. Because perverted religion with clerical wolves were devouring them. So Jesus told the poor continually to pay their tithes and they'ed be set free........NOT! For freedom He set them free from twisted religion. Today He is still setting free those with ears to hear and eyes to see from religion and the hungry wolves that control and devour them.

I saw the rich doing well financially by tithing but spiritually dead. I saw the poor hurt by tithing and struggling spiritually.

I report. You deside.
 
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PeacefulWarrior

Guest
I hate that catch phrase 'You can't out give God'. Then give your whole check a way if you really believe that foolishness.

Get back to us and let us know how that works out.

Thousands of people out give God every Sunday morning/mourning. Talking money, tithes. We out gave God for years. No window of heaven opened up over our poverty. When we stopped tithing, then the blessings started flowing. Imagine that.

Galatians 5:1 So Christ has truly set us free. Now make sure that you stay free, and don't get tied up again in slavery to the law.

Sounds like good advise to me. We tried both sides on this issue. We tested tithing fully. A nightmare. God said to stop trying to buy His favor? It's all paid up. It's free. The curse has been lifted. Be free from the commandments and traditions of men that makes void His word and brings upon you a curse.

Jesus come preaching the gospel to the who?......the poor! Why. Because perverted religion with clerical wolves were devouring them. So Jesus told the poor continually to pay their tithes and they'ed be set free........NOT! For freedom He set them free from twisted religion. Today He is still setting free those with ears to hear and eyes to see from religion and the hungry wolves that control and devour them.

I saw the rich doing well financially by tithing but spiritually dead. I saw the poor hurt by tithing and struggling spiritually.

I report. You deside.
We actually agree on something. ;)
 
Jan 24, 2009
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I hate that catch phrase 'You can't out give God'. Then give your whole check a way if you really believe that foolishness.
I could give more Biblical evidence to support that than giving 10%(a tithe).

•Before the law, Abram gave all. He gave a tenth of war spoils(which aren't even wages/salary/earnings) to Melchizedek and the rest to the King of Sodom.


•Jesus commended a widow for putting in all she had into an offering:

And He looked up and saw the rich putting their gifts into the treasury, and He saw also a certain poor widow putting in two mites. So He said, “Truly I say to you that this poor widow has put in more than all; for all these out of their abundance have put in offerings for God, but she out of her poverty put in all the livelihood that she had.” -Luke 21:1-4


•Jesus told a rich man to sell everything. He told the rich man to give up all he had:

Jesus answered, “If you want to be perfect, go, sell your possessions and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me.” -Matt 19:21


•The Macedonians gave beyond their means:

And now, brothers and sisters, we want you to know about the grace that God has given the Macedonian churches. In the midst of a very severe trial, their overflowing joy and their extreme poverty welled up in rich generosity. For I testify that they gave as much as they were able, and even beyond their ability. Entirely on their own, they urgently pleaded with us for the privilege of sharing in this service to the Lord’s people. And they exceeded our expectations: They gave themselves first of all to the Lord, and then by the will of God also to us. -2 Cor 8:1-5


•While tithing supporters like to quote Mosaic law, it seems most of them don't realize there were 3 types of tithes and that they amounted to over 20% yearly...perhaps 23 1/3% a year or 30% a year. If people are going to teach tithing, teach is properly: Levitical tithe, Festival tithe, and Poor tithe!
 

CS1

Well-known member
May 23, 2012
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Hi guys! Am anew member, Ihave aquestion please just help! Iam born and believe in Tithing and It's apractice Ifollow, Iwas attending acertain meeting in another church where the preacher was talking about giving and he said, a) Jesus never talked about Tithe but Jesus taught about sacrificial giving! b) The apostles never taught about Tithing but they taught early belivers to give towards the extension of the gospel and also to the needy in Jerusalem! c) he said Tithe is alegalistic way of giving and the Apostles in Acts 15:22-30! Please help me know, could Ihave practised this in vain!
I would just say do as the Lord Leads you:) give unto the Lord :) and support the local church and it's work :)
 
Aug 28, 2013
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Two Scenaios
by Ronald W. Robey


Two scenarios:


Scenario 1: Man enters your place of business and says harm will befall your family if you do not give him a percentage of your weekly profits.
Scenario 2: Man stands behind a pulpit in Church and says harm will befall your family if you do not give the Church ten percent of your every paycheck.


The fact is, if the members of the Church would take the time to open their Bibles at home, and study every Scripture, every verse, that has anything to do with tithing, one would find that God's commanded tithe


a) was agricultural (Lev. 27:30-33
B) was required of the Children of Israel (Lev.27:34)
c) was not to be observed in any geographical location other than the land of Canaan (Deut. 6:1-3; 12:1,10-11
d) was to be given to Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Canaan (Num. 18:24-26; Deut. 14:22-29)
e) was never commanded of Gentile nations (Psa. 147:19-20)
f) was not to be imposed upon Gentile nations (Acts 15:5,10,19-20)
g) was still agricultural in the last place it was seen as a command in the Bible (Heb. 7:5-8)


With this concrete evidence that Tithing was never money and never commanded, nor authorized for the Ekklesia, the called out assembly of Believers in Christ Jesus, there can be no doubt that both men in scenarios "A" and "B" above are guilty of the same crime,... Robbery with threats of calamity if the victim does not comply with the perpetrator's demands for money.


Two questions to ponder:


1) Why would scenario "B" not be considered robbery while scenario "A" would be considered robbery?
2) Why would you consider calling the police to arrest the man in Scenario "A", yet allow the man in Scenario "B" to rob you on a weekly basis?
 
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Yet

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Jan 4, 2014
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Isn't it remarkable that the unsaved get it. Whatchamean Yet? Talk to a sinner about 'church' and more often than not they'll say ' Yea those hypocrites. All it's about is money, money, and more money'.

Imagine that! They're closer to the kingdom, on this issue, than most Christians.
 
Aug 28, 2013
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Had to re-work my article "Two Scenarios" due to rhe last paragraph not exactly pointing to the first paragraph. Here is the corrected version:

Two Scenaios

by Ronald W. Robey




Two scenarios:




Scenario A: Man enters your place of business and says harm will befall your family if you do not give him a percentage of your weekly profits.

Scenario B: Man stands behind a pulpit in Church and says harm will befall your family if you do not give the Church ten percent of your every paycheck.




The fact is, if the members of the Church would take the time to open their Bibles at home, and study every Scripture, every verse, that has anything to do with tithing, one would find that God's commanded tithe




a) was agricultural (Lev. 27:30-33

b) was required of the Children of Israel (Lev.27:34)

c) was not to be observed in any geographical location other than the land of Canaan (Deut. 6:1-3; 12:1,10-11

d) was to be given to Levites, widows, orphans and strangers in Canaan (Num. 18:24-26; Deut. 14:22-29)

e) was never commanded of Gentile nations (Psa. 147:19-20)

f) was not to be imposed upon Gentile nations (Acts 15:5,10,19-20)

g) was still agricultural in the last place it was seen as a command in the Bible (Heb. 7:5-8)




With this concrete evidence that Tithing was never money and never commanded, nor authorized for the Ekklesia, the called out assembly of Believers in Christ Jesus, there can be no doubt that both men in scenarios "A" and "B" above are guilty of the same crime,... Robbery with threats of calamity if the victim does not comply with the perpetrator's demands for money.




Two questions to ponder:




1) Why would you consider scenario "A" to be robbery but not consider scenario "B" to be robbery?

2) Why would you consider calling the police to prevent the man in scenario "A" from robbing you each week, yet allow the man in scenario "B" to rob you on a weekly basis?
 
P

PeacefulWarrior

Guest
Isn't it remarkable that the unsaved get it. Whatchamean Yet? Talk to a sinner about 'church' and more often than not they'll say ' Yea those hypocrites. All it's about is money, money, and more money'.

Imagine that! They're closer to the kingdom, on this issue, than most Christians.

"“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." (Luke 16:8-9)
 

Yet

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Jan 4, 2014
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"“The master commended the dishonest manager because he had acted shrewdly. For the people of this world are more shrewd in dealing with their own kind than are the people of the light. I tell you, use worldly wealth to gain friends for yourselves, so that when it is gone, you will be welcomed into eternal dwellings." (Luke 16:8-9)
Thats the verses I was thinking on. Thanks.
 

Yet

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Jan 4, 2014
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There was another deal I wanted to mention. I had my house worked on by eight separate contractors for different jobs.

The only one that ripped us off was a pastor who was hired to do the siding on our house. I knew him for years. He was hurting so I gave the money up front. He started the job then quit. Me and my wife would go to his house because he wouldn't answer our calls. We'd sit on his front step and pray. Never answered the door. A painful ordeal. My wife was going berserk.

I ended up finishing the job myself. I had to learn in a hurry how to do it by myself. You see, this is more of 'my world' with the 'pastors'.

Yes, yes, yes, I forgive him to. I know, I know, I know..it's ALL MY FAULT for feeling sorry for him and giving him the money up front. I've always been a chump. A sucker.

And that's another deal. You always hear the pulpit berating the person that got a knife in the back....'you need to forgive and forget, quit being a baby, suck it up, be mature'. You never hear 'and you that put the knife in someones back need to repent and make amends.'
We got blamed for the whole deal at the church we were going to. No body would help us get it straight. Pastors daughter told my wife that it was all our fault for some weird reason. Again, this is 'our world' when it came to church.

No, no, no not boo hooing, just demonstrating how screwed up Christendom is. Am I broad rushing. You bet. We get that sort of snubbing from every pastor we've ever met. If I came to your den, your pastor would boot us out, no doubt. Invite me, and I'll prove it to you.
 
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PeacefulWarrior

Guest
There was another deal I wanted to mention. I had my house worked on by eight separate contractors for different jobs.

The only one that ripped us off was a pastor who was hired to do the siding on our house. I knew him for years. He was hurting so I gave the money up front. He started the job then quit. Me and my wife would go to his house because he wouldn't answer our calls. We'd sit on his front step and pray. Never answered the door. A painful ordeal. My wife was going berserk.

I ended up finishing the job myself. I had to learn in a hurry how to do it by myself. You see, this is more of 'my world' with the 'pastors'.

Yes, yes, yes, I forgive him to. I know, I know, I know..it's ALL MY FAULT for feeling sorry for him and giving him the money up front. I've always been a chump. A sucker.

And that's another deal. You always hear the pulpit berating the person that got a knife in the back....'you need to forgive and forget, quit being a baby, suck it up, be mature'. You never hear 'and you that put the knife in someones back need to repent and make amends.'
We got blamed for the whole deal at the church we were going to. No body would help us get it straight. Pastors daughter told my wife that it was all our fault for some weird reason. Again, this is 'our world' when it came to church.

No, no, no not boo hooing, just demonstrating how screwed up Christendom is. Am I broad rushing. You bet. We get that sort of snubbing from every pastor we've ever met. If I came to your den, your pastor would boot us out, no doubt. Invite me, and I'll prove it to you.
...and what are we to take from this, Yet?
 

hornetguy

Senior Member
Jan 18, 2016
6,945
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There was another deal I wanted to mention. I had my house worked on by eight separate contractors for different jobs.

The only one that ripped us off was a pastor who was hired to do the siding on our house. I knew him for years. He was hurting so I gave the money up front. He started the job then quit. Me and my wife would go to his house because he wouldn't answer our calls. We'd sit on his front step and pray. Never answered the door. A painful ordeal. My wife was going berserk.

I ended up finishing the job myself. I had to learn in a hurry how to do it by myself. You see, this is more of 'my world' with the 'pastors'.

Yes, yes, yes, I forgive him to. I know, I know, I know..it's ALL MY FAULT for feeling sorry for him and giving him the money up front. I've always been a chump. A sucker.

And that's another deal. You always hear the pulpit berating the person that got a knife in the back....'you need to forgive and forget, quit being a baby, suck it up, be mature'. You never hear 'and you that put the knife in someones back need to repent and make amends.'
We got blamed for the whole deal at the church we were going to. No body would help us get it straight. Pastors daughter told my wife that it was all our fault for some weird reason. Again, this is 'our world' when it came to church.

No, no, no not boo hooing, just demonstrating how screwed up Christendom is. Am I broad rushing. You bet. We get that sort of snubbing from every pastor we've ever met. If I came to your den, your pastor would boot us out, no doubt. Invite me, and I'll prove it to you.
In all honesty, and with the best of intentions, it sounds like the common denominator is you.

If you have problems wherever you go, and most other folks do not, perhaps you should examine yourself, and your behavior/approach to others. If you go in with a chip on your shoulder, making demands, most folks WILL write you off.