getting dates about a young earth

[kodiak]

Anything logical, is a fallacy to a YEC.

This is an ad hominem fallacy. You are saying I am not logical.
An ad hominem fallacy is where the argument is dismissed based on an attack of the person you disagree with. This is done instead of disputing the argument.

 

[Bowman]

Owned!

This is an ad hominem fallacy. You are saying I am not logical.
An ad hominem fallacy is where the argument is dismissed based on an attack of the person you disagree with. This is done instead of disputing the argument.

Then referring to you as a YEC, would most definitely fall into that category....rotflol....!

 

[truthman8]

This is another mistake, thinking that Moses is giving a planetary creation. Enoch gives a planetary creation, but not Moses. There was no planetary concept at that time, and Moses wasn't giving them one. Isaiah mentions the circle of the Earth, but that was hundreds of years later. Moses was giving the reemergence of life at the end of the last ice age around 10,000 bc. "Darkness on the face of the deep" doesn't refer to space. Space doesn't exist as a form. It is a mental calculation of distance between forms. When God said "let there be light", he began warming the ice sheet that covered the Earth, and we know there was one around in 10000 bc. He may have used a solar flare, or maybe something else, but the warming continued, creating a canopy above the Earth called the "waters above the firmament". Then the plants emerged, and the animals that survived came back. If God was creating the Earth, why was the ground already there, as well as the air and water? And when God said "let there be light", where was the light coming from? God has no form, remember? He is everywhere. Where was the source of the physical light? It must have been from the sun, already in existence.

 

[notuptome]

Then 'yawm' does not refer to a 24hr day in regards to Adam's spiritual death, as YEC's claim that it does in regards to Adam's birth.

Adam wasn't born Adam was created. Formed from the dust of the earth and when God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

Plants had to die when Adam & Eve ate them....thus, there was death before the fall...

So when you eat the fruit from a tree the tree dies? The serpent would not have been able to deceive Eve if she had seen death on the face of the earth.

The conditions in the garden would have promoted very high yield growth of plants in the garden. Double atmospheric pressure no UV light penetration and very high Oxygen levels promoted perfect living conditions.

No death prior to Adams fall and God placing all of creation under the curse of death due to sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[kodiak]

This is another mistake, thinking that Moses is giving a planetary creation. Enoch gives a planetary creation, but not Moses. There was no planetary concept at that time, and Moses wasn't giving them one. Isaiah mentions the circle of the Earth, but that was hundreds of years later. Moses was giving the reemergence of life at the end of the last ice age around 10,000 bc. "Darkness on the face of the deep" doesn't refer to space. Space doesn't exist as a form. It is a mental calculation of distance between forms. When God said "let there be light", he began warming the ice sheet that covered the Earth, and we know there was one around in 10000 bc. He may have used a solar flare, or maybe something else, but the warming continued, creating a canopy above the Earth called the "waters above the firmament". Then the plants emerged, and the animals that survived came back. If God was creating the Earth, why was the ground already there, as well as the air and water? And when God said "let there be light", where was the light coming from? God has no form, remember? He is everywhere. Where was the source of the physical light? It must have been from the sun, already in existence.

How did you come to this conclusion?

 

[Dan_473]

T agree that it was all done over time. I was just wondering if the creation of man was done in a instant, so to speak, or over time.
The bible says God put into into a deep sleep and made Eve. How long did God put Adam to sleep? To me that would imply Eve, and probably Adam(?) were made over a relatively short period of time, certainly not anywhere consistent of forming life in comparison to the other processes named in the bible creation story.

yes,
I too think adam and eve were formed in a short time...
I think that fits best with the tone of the story.

 

[Dan_473]

It is one thing to have a open genuine discussion in love, with a expression of openness, edifying and humility. When someone stoops to the level of insults and rudeness, it is neither inappropriate nor Christian.

very, very true.

 

[Dan_473]

Please cite one observed example of a single cell suddenly appearing, nourished by soil that provides the bewildering supply of finished amino acids and thousands of other organic compounds necessary at once, in concert, to sustai nthat original single cell even one minute!

Why bother with a universe necessarily full of special miracles just to invent DNA when our Supreme God can by his words create one living being along with all necessary conduits of life, sustaining its growth, and matching the very image and likeness of his Creator God? The alternative was to create a huge laboratory filling the entire universe, full of imps, each concocting a particular chemical, others arranging the exactly right chemical reactions between all of those products, with the aim of making a living man.

Well, nothing in nature hints of such a process. Man was made a man all in one day, fully functional with no announced faults whatsoever.

Rather, the word of God plainly states that God fashioned Adam from dust, like a potter forms a vase. He then breathed life into the man, and he became a living vase pleasing to God.

Looking at the physiology of man, that Adam could not have escaped rot past a few minutes of formation without given full functionality that same hour. That lifeless "vase" could never have lived to be a man without a fully functional circulatory system, endocrine, resperatory, skeletal, muscular, etc set of perfectly cooperating systems, all in the same "hour", actually within about 2 minutes of our time. Within 4 minutes he would have remained brain dead.

Quit letting Satan celebrate his partying over human stupidity! God did it the only way possible, yet naturally sustainable by reproduction of Adam's "kind".

His flesh heart couldn't have hung around thousands of years reproducing more hearts, eventually figuring out a way to get oxygen into the heart muscles, enough to begin forming a stomach and intestines to process food energy.

But wait. That would require a mouth and teeth to take food in. But wait. That would have required that heart to devise lungs to absorb oxygen.

But wait, none of that would occur without first the heart muscle developing a brain and senses like sight, smell, taste, to search for and take in food.

The point is that little ovule wouldn't have had those testes to form in until late in the evolutionary process, so from the date of the heart formation, all else would have never happened, but would have perished, and that original heart would have dried up into a slug a day or two after existing.

The way God says it happened is great science. The complete human body was made in a single day in the personal attendance of Creator God who knew all the required steps, and possessed the necessary skills to coordinate all of them perfectly. He didn't even let the human eye suffer loss from lack of systemic coordination! It's the only sensible explanation, because that is the truth.

right, and when I wrote that post, I was responding to Bowman, who seemed to be saying that adam wasn't formed as an adult, or even a newborn baby, but something that went "back to the womb", if I remember right.

that's why I put the "going with that idea". kind of like saying, "assuming what you're saying is true, let's see how that would work".


I agree very much with what you wrote, "Well, nothing in nature hints of such a process. Man was made a man all in one day, fully functional with no announced faults whatsoever."

 

[Dan_473]

But from the beginning of creation, ‘God made them male and female.’

Mark 10:6

That doesn't sound to me like billions of years of history before Adam and Eve arrived on the scene.

good point, I hadn't seen that before.

 

[Bowman]

Adam wasn't born Adam was created. Formed from the dust of the earth and when God breathed into Adam he became a living soul.

Adam had a beginning - thus, is was his birth.

So when you eat the fruit from a tree the tree dies?

The fruit dies.

The serpent would not have been able to deceive Eve if she had seen death on the face of the earth.

Why?

The conditions in the garden would have promoted very high yield growth of plants in the garden. Double atmospheric pressure no UV light penetration and very high Oxygen levels promoted perfect living conditions.

No death prior to Adams fall and God placing all of creation under the curse of death due to sin.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

So...

Adam and Eve never stepped on an insect or a blade of grass?

 

[Bowman]

right, and when I wrote that post, I was responding to Bowman, who seemed to be saying that adam wasn't formed as an adult, or even a newborn baby, but something that went "back to the womb", if I remember right."

Jesus is called 'The Second Adam' in scripture.

The comparison would not be made if Adam burst onto the scene as an adult...when Jesus obviously didn't.

 

[49]

Jesus is called 'The Second Adam' in scripture.

The comparison would not be made if Adam burst onto the scene as an adult...when Jesus obviously didn't.

So who fed Adam, changed his linens as a baby, burped him, etc etc etc?

 

[Bowman]

So who fed Adam, changed his linens as a baby, burped him, etc etc etc?

The same One who walked through the Garden in the cool of the day...God, Himself.

 

[kodiak]

Jesus is called 'The Second Adam' in scripture.

The comparison would not be made if Adam burst onto the scene as an adult...when Jesus obviously didn't.

How do we know he isn't compared to Adam for another reason?

 

[ukok102nak]

:smoke: let us see what this verses tells about
the garden :8)
:read:
Ezekiel: 31. 4. The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. 5. Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 6. All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. 7. Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 8. The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9. I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 10. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 11. I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. 12. And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him. 13. Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches: 14. To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[ukok102nak]

also what man seek is written
in the scriptures itself :happy:
:read:
Job: 8. 3. Doth God pervert judgment? or doth the Almighty pervert justice? 7. Though thy beginning was small, yet thy latter end should greatly increase. 8. For inquire, I pray thee, of the former age, and prepare thyself to the search of their fathers: 9. (For we are but of yesterday, and know nothing, because our days upon earth are a shadow 10. Shall not they teach thee, and tell thee, and utter words out of their heart? 11. Can the rush grow up without mire? can the flag grow without water? 12. Whilst it is yet in his greenness, and not cut down, it withereth before any other herb. 13. So are the paths of all that forget God; and the hypocrite's hope shall perish: 14. Whose hope shall be cut off, and whose trust shall be a spider's web. 15. He shall lean upon his house, but it shall not stand: he shall hold it fast, but it shall not endure. 16. He is green before the sun, and his branch shooteth forth in his garden. 17. His roots are wrapped about the heap, and seeth the place of stones. 18. If he destroy him from his place, then it shall deny him, saying, I have not seen thee. 19. Behold, this is the joy of his way, and out of the earth shall others grow. 20. Behold, God will not cast away a perfect man, neither will he help the evil doers: 21. Till he fill thy mouth with laughing, and thy lips with rejoicing. 22. They that hate thee shall be clothed with shame; and the dwelling place of the wicked shall come to nought.

:smoke: let us see what this verses tells about
the garden :8)
:read:
Ezekiel: 31. 4. The waters made him great, the deep set him up on high with her rivers running round about his plants, and sent out her little rivers unto all the trees of the field. 5. Therefore his height was exalted above all the trees of the field, and his boughs were multiplied, and his branches became long because of the multitude of waters, when he shot forth. 6. All the fowls of heaven made their nests in his boughs, and under his branches did all the beasts of the field bring forth their young, and under his shadow dwelt all great nations. 7. Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. 8. The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chestnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. 9. I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. 10. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; 11. I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness. 12. And strangers, the terrible of the nations, have cut him off, and have left him: upon the mountains and in all the valleys his branches are fallen, and his boughs are broken by all the rivers of the land; and all the people of the earth are gone down from his shadow, and have left him. 13. Upon his ruin shall all the fowls of the heaven remain, and all the beasts of the field shall be upon his branches: 14. To the end that none of all the trees by the waters exalt themselves for their height, neither shoot up their top among the thick boughs, neither their trees stand up in their height, all that drink water: for they are all delivered unto death, to the nether parts of the earth, in the midst of the children of men, with them that go down to the pit.

:ty:

godbless us all always

 

[Dino246]

Adam had a beginning - thus, is was his birth.

Adam was created, not born. Gen 2:6 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being." This verse also adequately refutes the fantasy that Adam was created as a living molecule and grew from there.

The fruit dies.

Fruit is not alive in the same way that animal or human life is alive.

Adam and Eve never stepped on an insect or a blade of grass?

This is irrelevant conjecture.

Jesus is called 'The Second Adam' in scripture. The comparison would not be made if Adam burst onto the scene as an adult...when Jesus obviously didn't.

This is another non sequitur. Typology does not require similitude of all details.

 

[Bowman]

How do we know he isn't compared to Adam for another reason?

For what other reason, than that of physical identity, would God in the flesh be compared to another human?!

 

[Bowman]

Adam was created, not born. Gen 2:6 "Then the Lord God formed man of dust from the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living being."

Wrong.

First of all, the verse you referenced should be Gen 2.7.....not Gen 2.6.

Secondly, 'bara' is used interchangeably with 'birth'.

This verse also adequately refutes the fantasy that Adam was created as a living molecule and grew from there.

Wrong, again.

'Yatsar' indeed imparts the lexical definition of being fashioned.

Fruit is not alive in the same way that animal or human life is alive.

Then you concede that life died prior to the fall.

 

[DP]

How did you come to the conclusion that the dinosaurs were wiped out in a separate flood?

Because Genesis 1:2-9 is showing the earth in a flood condition, being underneath those waters mentioned, which would account for why species in the fossil record like dinosaurs became extinct, and because of the evidence of the woolly mammoths found buried frozen in the ice still with undecayed vegetation in their mouths, showing they were covered with water all of sudden and instantly frozen, and because of Scripture like the end of Heb.12 which points to God having once shook this earth to the level that He's going to shake it again at the end of this present world, destroying man's works off its surface by fire (2 Pet.3:10).