getting dates about a young earth

[Tintin]

2 Peter 3:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago,
(4,000ish years, at the time Peter wrote this, is actually ancient)

and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
(God separates the waters above from the other waters below, but there's no Great Flood here created by Lucifer or God)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
(The worldwide Flood of Noah's time)

 

[DP]

Peter was not talking about Noah?

So tell us, Since he finished the passage saying the heavens that are (post flood) are being preserved until the end (will not again be destroyed by flood as God himself promised)

What else could it be?

Sorry, But you will need more than that.

As for jeremiah, That is a weak argument. I could easily interpret it a different way.. It does not prove anything.

Again, Why does god need millions of years? to make earth habitable to mankind, UNLESS he used evolutionary tactics, nothing makes sense. .

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV

Ps 33:6-7
6 By the word of the LORD were the heavens made; and all the host of them by the breath of His mouth.
7 He gathereth the waters of the sea together as an heap: He layeth up the depth in storehouses.
KJV



Which Scripture there about those heavens is about Genesis 1?

Both.

 

[DP]

2 Peter 3:5-6

[SUP]5 [/SUP]For they deliberately overlook this fact, that the heavens existed long ago,
(4,000ish years, at the time Peter wrote this, is actually ancient)and the earth was formed out of water and through water by the word of God,
(God separates the waters above from the other waters below, but there's no Great Flood here created by Lucifer or God)

[SUP]6 [/SUP]and that by means of these the world that then existed was deluged with water and perished.
(The worldwide Flood of Noah's time)

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water:
6 Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:
KJV

That whole phrase, "by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water" is all the same timing of Gen.1. It's specifically a mention of Gen.1:1 through 1:9 when God moved the waters that were completely overspread the whole earth and the dry land appeared.

"Whereby" is a conjunction connected to the timing of verse 5 and means 'by which' or 'through which'.

2 Peter 3:5-6
5 For when they maintain this, it escapes their notice that by the word of God the heavens existed long ago and the earth was formed out of water and by water,
6 through which the world at that time was destroyed, being flooded with water.
NAS


I don't read verse 6 meaning, "through which the world 'at a later time in Noah's day' was destroyed, being flooded with water." It reads the world "at that time", which is the meaning of KJV "the world that then was".

 

[Bryan-3208]

good points. did God create the world middle-aged? it would be logical... looks like God didn't create adam as a baby.

in that case, science would be right in observing the earth to be old, and "faith" would be right in believing the revelation in Genesis.

This is a good observation and one that I've been thinking about and leaning towards for some time now. In Matthew 13 the Lord said that the purpose of speaking in parables was so that those whom were not given the secrets of the kingdom would continue to live in ignorance. If God created the earth showing age right from the beginning then similiar to the parables, it would be a hindrance to the unelected scientists and thier cohorts who tried to find answers through their own efforts. Doesn't it make sense that God would shame the wise of this age by one upping them (creating a middle-aged earth) at their own game? Isn't this what Paul writes about in the epistle to the Corinthians?

Praise the Lord Jesus Christ!

For reference I'm pasting the verse selection I mentioned above:


"Then the disciples came and said to him, "Why do you speak to them in parables?"
nd he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.
For to the one who has, more will be given, and he will have an abundance, but from the one who has not, even what he has will be taken away.
This is why I speak to them in parables, because seeing they do not see, and hearing they do not hear, nor do they understand.
Indeed, in their case the prophecy of Isaiah is fulfilled that says: "'"You will indeed hear but never understand, and you will indeed see but never perceive."
For this people's heart has grown dull, and with their ears they can barely hear, and their eyes they have closed, lest they should see with their eyes and hear with their ears and understand with their heart and turn, and I would heal them.'" -
Matthew 13:10-15

 

[GodIsSalvation]

No.




The dinos you are referring to went extinct millions of years before Adam was created.

Homo sapiens sapiens date back to tens of thousands of years....not millions of years.

Lol well that's obviously not true since death didn't enter the world until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The more logical conclusion is the dating methods the atheists use are arbitrary and fraudulent.

 

[Dan_473]

He named the animals and birds that he came across that were alive at the time

as I read it, out of the ground God formed every animal of the field, and every bird of the sky.

then, God brought them to the man to see what he would call them.

unless a dinosaur is not an animal of the field or a bird of the sky, then they were all brought to adam to be named.

 

[Word_Swordsman]

as I read it, out of the ground God formed every animal of the field, and every bird of the sky.

then, God brought them to the man to see what he would call them.

unless a dinosaur is not an animal of the field or a bird of the sky, then they were all brought to adam to be named.

Given what we know (from science) of animal extinctions, there are today far fewer species than God created. That loss is at least partly due to the direct curse on creations through the sin of man.

The world-wide flood of Genesis dramatically cut the populations of dinosaurs and other land animals, leaving only tiny numbers to reproduce in Noah's lifetime. Looking at where on earth dinosaurs went to be far from man, the vast bulk of them were buried together. From the flood onward man's records show a great fear and objection to monsters, which would help account for total slaughter of the small numbers saved by the Ark, before they could get far enough away from man, yet finding enough food along their way. Who would blame men in those days? It likely was "I'll eat them before they eat me."

 

[Bowman]

Lol well that's obviously not true since death didn't enter the world until Adam ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil.

The more logical conclusion is the dating methods the atheists use are arbitrary and fraudulent.

ROTFLOL....NO!!!!

Death existed long before Adam sinned.

Your are perpetuating yet another YEC myth, and twisting scripture.

All kinds of weird things happen when YEC's get a hold of scripture.

 

[valiant]

as I read it, out of the ground God formed every animal of the field, and every bird of the sky.

then, God brought them to the man to see what he would call them.

unless a dinosaur is not an animal of the field or a bird of the sky, then they were all brought to adam to be named.

I've no objection to dinosaurs if they were alive at the time.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

ROTFLOL....NO!!!!

Death existed long before Adam sinned.

Your are perpetuating yet another YEC myth, and twisting scripture.

All kinds of weird things happen when YEC's get a hold of scripture.

Guess again. See that's the problem with the New Age Old Earth pagan religion, it is so heretical it pretty much not only would cast Genesis and history as a lie, but also key doctrinal points of Christianity.

Genesis 2:16-17

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


1 Corinthians 15:21-22


[SUP]21[/SUP]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Romans 5:12-15


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

 

[tanakh]

The problem with the Young earth idea is the literal reading of the creation passage in Genesis. The six days of creation could not be six literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars are created on the fourth day. It says they are to rule over day and night and separate light from darkness. That means for the first three days there could not be any literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars didn't exist. We measure time by the movement of the heavenly bodies God exists outside of time because he created it.
The process of creation is more like six stages than actual twenty four hour days. The creation story is written as it is because of our limited understanding of God. Most of the Bible is written this way for the same reason.

 

[valiant]

Guess again. See that's the problem with the New Age Old Earth pagan religion, it is so heretical it pretty much not only would cast Genesis and history as a lie, but also key doctrinal points of Christianity.

Genesis 2:16-17

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


1 Corinthians 15:21-22


[SUP]21[/SUP]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Romans 5:12-15


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

LOL he was referring to the death of animals,

 

[valiant]

The problem with the Young earth idea is the literal reading of the creation passage in Genesis. The six days of creation could not be six literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars are created on the fourth day. It says they are to rule over day and night and separate light from darkness. That means for the first three days there could not be any literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars didn't exist. We measure time by the movement of the heavenly bodies God exists outside of time because he created it.
The process of creation is more like six stages than actual twenty four hour days. The creation story is written as it is because of our limited understanding of God. Most of the Bible is written this way for the same reason.

Add to that that on yom 3 'the earth brought forth vegetation, plants yielding seed after its kind, and fruit trees bearing fruit in which is its seed, after to its kind'. Reads to me like process.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

LOL he was referring to the death of animals,

Even then there was no death until Adam ate of the fruit. God made everything good and perfect.

Genesis 1:31

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Also praise Jesus and hope you are well Sir Valiant.

 

[valiant]

Adam named all of the animal and bird kinds that he came across (that were alive at the time). Death and disease weren't a thing until Adam and Eve rebelled against God. It would've taken Adam less than half a day (waking hours) to name all of the animal and bird kinds.

So you think he just stood there naming animals? LOL he must have had a good time thinking of names on the spot, But if God brought the animals to him gradually, while he was familiarising himself with God's world it makes much more sense.

 

[valiant]

Even then there was no death until Adam ate of the fruit. God made everything good and perfect.

Genesis 1:31

[SUP]31 [/SUP]And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.

Also praise Jesus and hope you are well Sir Valiant.

but what makes a world good and perfect? does the death of a creature without a soul make it imperfect. I don't think so. It was the death of ADAM that made it imperfect.

And thank you. Hope you are well too.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

As far as naming the animals that probably take too long. First you have to remember animals are classified differently today which inflates the amount of animals than there actually is. Secondly you have to remember these would be the patriarch and matriarchs of basically all animals, so there wouldn't be as much variety as there is today which were created by breeding in or out certain traits. For example with the dog, there wouldn't have been the various breeds which arose actually fairly recently. There would have just been a primal archetypical dog. Also a third point is we know that prior to the Tower of Babel language was simpler and of fewer words.

Genesis 11:1 (KJV, NIV, RSV)

1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.

1 Now the whole world had one language and a common speech.

1 Now the whole earth had one language and few words.

 

[GodIsSalvation]

but what makes a world good and perfect? does the death of a creature without a soul make it imperfect. I don't think so. It was the death of ADAM that made it imperfect.

And thank you. Hope you are well too.

Lol, God said it was very good, so even though it is kinda cliché, Jesus made it good and perfect.

I'd agree though by death entering the world through Adam that is what made it imperfect as Romans and 1 Corinthians state.

Also the animals do have souls.

Genesis 7:21-22

[SUP]21 [/SUP]And all flesh died that moved upon the earth, both of fowl, and of cattle, and of beast, and of every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth, and every man:
[SUP]22 [/SUP]All in whose nostrils was the breath of life, of all that was in the dry land, died.

 

[DP]

The problem with the Young earth idea is the literal reading of the creation passage in Genesis. The six days of creation could not be six literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars are created on the fourth day. It says they are to rule over day and night and separate light from darkness. That means for the first three days there could not be any literal days because the Sun Moon and Stars didn't exist. We measure time by the movement of the heavenly bodies God exists outside of time because he created it.
The process of creation is more like six stages than actual twenty four hour days. The creation story is written as it is because of our limited understanding of God. Most of the Bible is written this way for the same reason.

Absolutely. That strikes out any 'day' argument relating to our knowledge of a day and night.

 

[DP]

Guess again. See that's the problem with the New Age Old Earth pagan religion, it is so heretical it pretty much not only would cast Genesis and history as a lie, but also key doctrinal points of Christianity.

Genesis 2:16-17

[SUP]16 [/SUP]And the Lord God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.


1 Corinthians 15:21-22


[SUP]21[/SUP]For since by man came death, by man came also the resurrection of the dead.
[SUP]22 [/SUP]For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive.


Romans 5:12-15


[SUP]12 [/SUP]Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:
[SUP]13 [/SUP](For until the law sin was in the world: but sin is not imputed when there is no law.
[SUP]14 [/SUP]Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression, who is the figure of him that was to come.
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But not as the offence, so also is the free gift. For if through the offence of one many be dead, much more the grace of God, and the gift by grace, which is by one man, Jesus Christ, hath abounded unto many.

That's about flesh man though, and excludes this:

Heb 2:14-15
14 Forasmuch then as the children are partakers of flesh and blood, He also Himself likewise took part of the same; that through death He might destroy him that had the power of death, that is, the devil;
15 And deliver them who through fear of death were all their lifetime subject to bondage.
KJV

1 John 3:8
8 He that committeth sin is of the devil; for the devil sinneth from the beginning. For this purpose the Son of God was manifested, that he might destroy the works of the devil.
KJV



So death definitely began when Satan rebelled, and God judged and sentenced him to perish in the future "lake of fire". This is why in the OT prophets like Isaiah 30:33, Ezekiel 28:18, and Revelation he is already set to perish. No flesh born man has been judged and sentenced yet, only Satan and his angels have.