Tithe!

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Monetary tithing was unheard of in Protestant churches until late-19th Century AD.

The Middle Tennessee Baptist's were not teaching it in 1934. One of their ministers, a John Harvey Grime, wrote in his book, "The Bible and History on the Tithe System" published in 1934, "No Baptist Church has ever adopted it. Should a Church adopt it, they would cease to be Baptist."

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

Pastor, can I help you pack?
I know how much you want to be found in God’s perfect will, so Pastor, can I help you pack?
What??? You wasn’t planning on moving anywhere anytime soon?
But, don’t you want to be in God’s will?
You do? Good! Can I help you pack?
What? Why do you need to pack? Well Pastor, make up your mind… Do you want to be in God’s will, or not?
You say again that you do. Good! Please, Pastor, let me help you pack. Because I want you to be in God’s will too.
You still don’t understand? Well, Pastor, let me explain.
You are a minister of God, are you not? Yes, that certificate on the wall looks good. I’ll be careful to wrap it good while I help you pack.
Oh, yes, it will have to come down. You don’t want to leave your ministerial credentials behind, do you? Of course not.
Did you not say in your sermon yesterday morning that the ministers of God are to receive tithes of the congregation?
Yes, that’s right. You used Numbers 18 as the text.
Well, Pastor, according to that same book, the ministers of God who receive the tithes are to live in forty-eight cities in Israel.
We sure are going to miss you, but we know that you want to be in God’s will. And we sure don’t want to stand between you and God’s will.
So Pastor, we are willing to make that sacrifice and let you go.
And just think, you will be able to keep ninety percent of the tithes you take for yourself. Just be sure to take the other ten percent to the Temple as God commanded. You’ll be good to go… Hopefully, they’ll have that Temple built for you. Of course you will need to provide proof that you are a descendant of Levi, so the other tribes will know you are eligible to collect tithes. Do you have a birthcertificate that declares you to bae a descendant of Levi?
Okay, let’s stop talking. We’ve got a lot of packing to do if you want to be in God’s will.
Pastor, let me help you pack.

 

[Yet]

hmmm.... which translation of 2 Peter are you quoting? I just read it, and saw nothing mentioned about "tithing"....

Im sorry, cancel that error.

 

[Yet]

This thread has become mostly about loving one's money. Love of money results in keeping it in your wallet, the prrof of one's love of it. To keep it there requires "blessing" from Satan.

Many will subvert God's thinking to their own destruction. Want God's blessings on your income? Obey him.

One by one, the people refusing to honor God, are packing up in U-Hauls, hoping to find a way "Out there" where maybe their life will be better. The tithers, the true givers of offerings, all still here, prospering. There is no going around the promises of God. THe world system can "bless" anyone towing it's line, but it can't consistently carry anyone through.

What do you do for a living?

 

[Yet]

Tithing! Clerics! Pulpit sermons!

Proverbs 14:15 The naive believe every word, but the prudent man looks well to his going. (Searches and studies it out for himself).

 

[Yet]

Again, some of my thoughts of late, I have gleaned from the book 'The Great Dream' that only verifies what I've been discussing forever. Most of you wouldn't like this treatise. It's smack full of scripture, the Hebrew and the Greek takes. But a handful of you will rejoice reading this study. It will show you why you are an outcast, a reject, one who could never fit into Babylon the 'church' no matter how hard you try....God won't allow it. He's called you to 'be ye separate'. 'Obey His commands', not man's.

Be free, be blessed. How you ask? Follow the narrow road with Christ, not the broad road of apostasy.

 

[roaringkitten]

This thread has become mostly about loving one's money. Love of money results in keeping it in your wallet, the prrof of one's love of it. To keep it there requires "blessing" from Satan.

Many will subvert God's thinking to their own destruction. Want God's blessings on your income? Obey him.

One by one, the people refusing to honor God, are packing up in U-Hauls, hoping to find a way "Out there" where maybe their life will be better. The tithers, the true givers of offerings, all still here, prospering. There is no going around the promises of God. THe world system can "bless" anyone towing it's line, but it can't consistently carry anyone through.

Where does the Bible say that God will bless a believer's income for obeying him? I don't see that modeled with apostle Paul, or any of the other apostles! How do you know that I or another beliver pockets the money that I have simply because I don't believe in tithing? You don't know, you just make up things as you go along to push your heresy. Did you know the Bible teaches that those who speak lies in the Lord's name are thieves?(Jer 23:31-32)

Again, where do you get tithing to equate to money? Any Scripture? Any Scripture telling us we should give our money to the pastor? Any Scripture that says or implies the storehouse is in church? The Bible does teach the Levitical tithe was brought to the Levitical cities(read Neh 10:37b) not the storehouse. Also the tithe of the tithe(1%) was the part brought to the storehouse by the Levites:

"And the priest the son of Aaron shall be with the Levites, when the Levites take tithes: and the Levites shall bring up the tithe of the tithes unto the house of our God, to the chambers, into the treasure house." Neh 10:38

So the tithe we see in Malachi 3 is really referring to the tithe of the tithe that the Levites were to bring to the storehouse! Basic math shows this to be 1%

But you are free to believe whatever you want!

 

[Yet]

What gets me is this. If you work your tail off to support yourself and family, maybe 2 low paying jobs, and put the paycheck, all of it, in your pocket, no eating out, no vacations, no funplex, you can in no wise afford it, just trying to keep up with expenses, that makes you greedy. (You dog you).
The local pastor, who quit his day job, (oh hallelujah), who sleeps till 9, who sits behind a computer all week along with a few golf games and fishing trips, the steak house, owns the newest car in the church parking lot, some vacations to the Bahamas called 'checking up on the missionary work,' gives a 40 minute boring sermon on Sunday for a full week pay check that out weighs most, tells you that God told him to tell you and everyone else to give him 10 percent of their gross......or God's gonna gitem and put a curse on them, of they don't cough it up ......on time....weekly.....oh!....and plus offerings! Special offerings. Pastors birthday, pastor's wife's birthday, their anniversary, Christmas special offering, vacations (plural) offerings, something breaks down they own offering, etc., etc..

What bible are folks reading anyway? The word 'servant' has morphed into 'KING'!

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

What gets me is this. If you work your tail off to support yourself and family, maybe 2 low paying jobs, and put the paycheck, all of it, in your pocket, no eating out, no vacations, no funplex, you can in no wise afford it, just trying to keep up with expenses, that makes you greedy. (You dog you).
The local pastor, who quit his day job, (oh hallelujah), who sleeps till 9, who sits behind a computer all week along with a few golf games and fishing trips, the steak house, owns the newest car in the church parking lot, some vacations to the Bahamas called 'checking up on the missionary work,' gives a 40 minute boring sermon on Sunday for a full week pay check that out weighs most, tells you that God told him to tell you and everyone else to give him 10 percent of their gross......or God's gonna gitem and put a curse on them, of they don't cough it up ......on time....weekly.....oh!....and plus offerings! Special offerings. Pastors birthday, pastor's wife's birthday, their anniversary, Christmas special offering, vacations (plural) offerings, something breaks down they own offering, etc., etc..

What bible are folks reading anyway? The word 'servant' has morphed into 'KING'!

I think there are a lot of pastors who simply assume that tithing is Biblically correct based on their training/schooling/seminary. Perhaps they haven't independently researched the issue on their own. When they read passages, then, they assume tithing is implied(eisegesis).

Some aren't personally advocates of tithing, but are afraid to stand in opposition to their denomination and potentially loose their job.

Others aren't personally advocates of tithing yet are afraid to teach otherwise, fearing that monies needed to maintain the church and it's ministries won't be available if they cease teaching tithing.

Regardless of the reason, I do think that a good deal of pro-tithing teachers mean well and truly do care about their congregation.

While I do agree with you on the issue of tithing, I don't agree with your apparent assessment of the Christian clergy.

 

[Yet]

I think there are a lot of pastors who simply assume that tithing is Biblically correct based on their training/schooling/seminary. Perhaps they haven't independently researched the issue on their own. When they read passages, then, they assume tithing is implied(eisegesis).

Some aren't personally advocates of tithing, but are afraid to stand in opposition to their denomination and potentially loose their job.

Others aren't personally advocates of tithing yet are afraid to teach otherwise, fearing that monies needed to maintain the church and it's ministries won't be available if they cease teaching tithing.

Regardless of the reason, I do think that a good deal of pro-tithing teachers mean well and truly do care about their congregation.

While I do agree with you on the issue of tithing, I don't agree with your apparent assessment of the Christian clergy.

Afraid to lose his job. So he lies.

Afraid the money won't come in to shore up one man's ministry, so he lies.

What more can I add? Other than mentioning Rev. 28 ...all liars will be cast into Gehenna...

Not being a mean guy. Just a needed warning.

You don't agree with me concerning the clerical division. Debate starts with disagreement. Where am I going wrong? A friendly discussion. No flying stones. Smile. God bless.

 

[notuptome]

The apostles took free will offerings. They did not insist on tithes according to the law but I'm certain that the free will offerings far and away exceeded what they would have received if they had taught compulsory giving.

Let each give according the dictates his heart before the Lord. We answer not to men but to God in how we give or what we withhold.

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[StandingFirmInChrist]

If we are to believe the Bible, (and we should) the tithe is the LORD's. (Leviticus 27:30) However, it is a specific tithe (agricultural; Leviticus 27:30-33; Deuteromony 14:22-27) for a specific people (sons of Levi, widows, orphans and strangers; Numbers 18:24-26; Deuteronomy 14:28-29) in a specific location (Canaan/Israel; Deuteronomy 6:1-3; 12:10-11) that the LORD said was His.




In light of what the Bible says concerning God's holy tithe, no Apostle, Prophet, Evangelist, Pastor, or Teacher (the five offices in Ephesians 4:11) has the right or authority to teach that God's holy tithe is, or should be, monetary.

 

[RobbyEarl]

The tithe is a test. To test the hearts of men. Where your treasure is there will your heart be also.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

Afraid to lose his job. So he lies.

Afraid the money won't come in to shore up one man's ministry, so he lies.

What more can I add? Other than mentioning Rev. 28 ...all liars will be cast into Gehenna...

Not being a mean guy. Just a needed warning.

You don't agree with me concerning the clerical division. Debate starts with disagreement. Where am I going wrong? A friendly discussion. No flying stones. Smile. God bless.

Afraid to lose his job. So he lies. It's kinda like being a Conservative in Hollywood. Or a Conservative on the Left Coast. It takes a lot of guts to stand up to a philosophy that is so much different. It especially can't be fun to learn/understand years into ministry that one has been teaching tithing in error. It's not a legitimate excuse, but I can see how it would be a difficult position to find oneself.

Afraid the money won't come in to shore up one man's ministry, so he lies. While there are plenty of very controlling senior pastors, my experience is that there are generally multiple ministries and that a pastor is assigned to oversee one or more of them. Ministries aren't possessed by a single individual. What you're describing sounds more like what I see in televangelism.

You don't agree with me concerning the clerical division. Debate starts with disagreement. Where am I going wrong? A friendly discussion. No flying stones. Smile. God bless. I don't think a majority of pastors are money hungry wolves, but that's the impression I got from that other post. I've got pastor friends who I respect and appreciate, who I believe are truly trying to do the work of God, but who teach tithing.

 

[Gr8grace]

The apostles took free will offerings. They did not insist on tithes according to the law but I'm certain that the free will offerings far and away exceeded what they would have received if they had taught compulsory giving.

Let each give according the dictates his heart before the Lord. We answer not to men but to God in how we give or what we withhold.

1Ti 5:17 Let the elders that rule well be counted worthy of double honour, especially they who labour in the word and doctrine.

1Ti 5:18 For the scripture saith, Thou shalt not muzzle the ox that treadeth out the corn. And, The labourer is worthy of his reward.


For the cause of Christ
Roger

This is the message that works. If a believer doesn't believe it..................its on them. Go get your ears tickled and pay for it.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

The tithe is a test. To test the hearts of men. Where your treasure is there will your heart be also.

Curious about your positions on these T/F questions, RobbyEarl:

1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Paul said that He could have lorded it over them, but did not so that it wouldn't impede the Gospel.

 

[RobbyEarl]

Curious about your positions on these T/F questions, RobbyEarl:

1. T/F - All tithes in O.T. times were brought to the storehouse.
2. T/F - Tithes were always delivered to the storehouse by the tither.
3. T/F - Tithes and firstfruits and offerings are all the same thing; the words are synonymous.
4. T/F - In O.T. times, Israelites were allowed to eat part of a tithe.
5. T/F - In O.T. times, one tithe was due on agriculture and livestock.
6. T/F - In O.T. times, the first of every 10 animals was part of a tithe. It was to be the finest and best of the flock.
7. T/F - In O.T. times, tithing was done on agriculture every year.
8. T/F - In O.T. times, the Israelites were encouraged to tithe on cash/coins/precious metals.

In the OT the tithe was about 28% of there income and possession. When you consider the first fruits and the sin offering and the Passover and the feast of of weeks and the tabernacles. Then , if you committed a sin then you had to give sacrifice. The temple was a bloody smoky sight. Thank God we can just give Him 10% of our money. Well it's money that He let us have.

 

[Test_F_i_2_Luv]

In the OT the tithe was about 28% of there income and possession. When you consider the first fruits and the sin offering and the Passover and the feast of of weeks and the tabernacles. Then , if you committed a sin then you had to give sacrifice. The temple was a bloody smoky sight. Thank God we can just give Him 10% of our money. Well it's money that He let us have.

How'd you get from 28% back down to 10%?

Why not just answer the T/F questions?

 

[RobbyEarl]

How'd you get from 28% back down to 10%?

Why not just answer the T/F questions?

Tithe in Hebrew means the tenth. As for you T/F questions most are true. However, have read about the little boy that gave the fish and bread and how it feed 5,000 men not counting women and children. God will bless the tithe. Guess who took home the 12 baskets of leftovers?