Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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You still do not understand Fordman. Its NOT about "ALL" babies in the womb, "ALL" Children below the age of reason, and "ALL" people that are in a vegetative state or severely mentally-handicapped that matters.
What matters is YOU!
God will judge you for your sins you do!
Its interesting that you are trying to use the excuse of other people and their sins to justify your sins against God. It does not matter about other people because you do know what God says and you will be judged by God for your sins. God is no fool like you think He is. God clearly knows your Heart and God knows every sin you willingly commit.
Mary was born with "Original" sin just like everyone else. This is where the "All have sinned" comes in. Mary was born with Original sin and sinned her whole life and DIED a sinner. Which now makes you an Idolater because you Worship and serve Mary as your God.
Clearly God tells us in Exodus 20 we are not to have an Image of Mary. A statue of Mary is an Idol. By Worshiping the statue of Mary you have committed the sin of Idolatry which will keep you from entering into Heaven.
You Fordman need to realize and understand its not about what others do and their sins that matters. Its all about the sins you willing do that counts and its your sin of Worshiping Mary and serving Mary as your God that will keep you from entering into Heaven.
You need to stop playing the fool just because the Corrupted Catholic Church says its not a sin to Worship Mary. God has given you the Truth in the Scriptures and you have rejected the Truth to follow what the Corrupted Catholic Church teaches.
Your red herring about others and their ability to sin carries no weight with God because He can see into your Heart and He will judge you for YOUR sins.
What matters is YOU!
God will judge you for your sins you do!
Its interesting that you are trying to use the excuse of other people and their sins to justify your sins against God. It does not matter about other people because you do know what God says and you will be judged by God for your sins. God is no fool like you think He is. God clearly knows your Heart and God knows every sin you willingly commit.
Mary was born with "Original" sin just like everyone else. This is where the "All have sinned" comes in. Mary was born with Original sin and sinned her whole life and DIED a sinner. Which now makes you an Idolater because you Worship and serve Mary as your God.
Clearly God tells us in Exodus 20 we are not to have an Image of Mary. A statue of Mary is an Idol. By Worshiping the statue of Mary you have committed the sin of Idolatry which will keep you from entering into Heaven.
You Fordman need to realize and understand its not about what others do and their sins that matters. Its all about the sins you willing do that counts and its your sin of Worshiping Mary and serving Mary as your God that will keep you from entering into Heaven.
You need to stop playing the fool just because the Corrupted Catholic Church says its not a sin to Worship Mary. God has given you the Truth in the Scriptures and you have rejected the Truth to follow what the Corrupted Catholic Church teaches.
Your red herring about others and their ability to sin carries no weight with God because He can see into your Heart and He will judge you for YOUR sins.
Mike, you are a liar or an ignoramus. Multiple times we have said that it is a sin to worship Mary. Multiple times we have told you that we do not worship Mary. And yet you continue. And for that matter you say this,
Mary, no matter Catholic or Protestant, died a saint. Not a Catholic saint, but a saint. She worshipped her Son. She lived out her days in Ephesus with John the Beloved Disciple as if he were her own son, in order to obey Christ. No matter what...she is you sister in Christ. To throw dirt at her and ignorantly and stupidly imply that she died in her sins, is an insult to your own sister. Whether that was your intention or not...look at how you phrased it. Look at how that looks. You are one step from saying that she is in hell instead of Heaven. Again, you may not have intended it to look that way, but that is on the very surface what it looks like.
Mary did not die in her sins, nor did she die a sinner. She died a disciple, servant, and member of the Bride of Christ. She died reconciled to God. She died righteous because Jesus is righteous. Your own teachings teach this about you and all Christians. And yet you go so far as to imply the opposite about one of Christ's earliest disciples in order to besmirch us Catholics. If you are willing to burn Mary in metaphorical effigy to get at us, I shudder to think where the line in the sand is for you.
Remember that the people you are speaking to are human. They have life. And remember the people you are speaking about are human. They still live in the presence of Christ.
Mary did not die in her sins, nor did she die a sinner. She died a disciple, servant, and member of the Bride of Christ. She died reconciled to God. She died righteous because Jesus is righteous. Your own teachings teach this about you and all Christians. And yet you go so far as to imply the opposite about one of Christ's earliest disciples in order to besmirch us Catholics. If you are willing to burn Mary in metaphorical effigy to get at us, I shudder to think where the line in the sand is for you.
Remember that the people you are speaking to are human. They have life. And remember the people you are speaking about are human. They still live in the presence of Christ.
I would expect no less from you.
You may believe that through baptism you are freed from original sin but scripture does not agree with you. The flesh is born corrupt with sin. Flesh, the body, decays from the moment it enters the world.
No person merits salvation. None are born with the right to be saved. It is by the mercy of God that any are saved. God would be fully justified if He condemned every person on the earth. Because God pities man in his sinful, fallen state God saves through grace. Works are excluded because the same ones who die in the womb and those who do not have the capacity to choose also cannot work to obtain salvation.
That you do not perceive the sovereignty of God is not all that surprising because you do not comprehend the marvelous grace of God. Rites such as baptism and communion are not a means of grace nor are they a means of worship. They are of no avail to those who lack capacity to receive them and they are of no consequence in the matter of salvation.
You would do well to consider what Martin Luther revealed of Romanism's heretical teachings. Heretical because they are unbiblical not because they are not in line with Protestantism.
Indeed there is no peace apart from the saving grace of God. God cannot be manipulated by man.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
For the cause of Christ
Roger
You Catholics put way too much emphasis on Mary.
Mary was born with original sin and Mary did sin her whole life just like other people. There is nothing special with Mary. Even Jesus put His followers above Mary.
Luke 8:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
Luke 11:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And it came about while He said these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice, and said to Him, " Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts at which You nursed."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it."
Even Jesus put others ABOVE Mary!
So why do you Corrupted Catholics put Mary above God?
I think its because the Catholics have made Mary their God and Worship and Serve her AS THEIR GOD!
Mary was born with original sin and Mary did sin her whole life just like other people. There is nothing special with Mary. Even Jesus put His followers above Mary.
Luke 8:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] And His mother and brothers came to Him, and they were unable to get to Him because of the crowd.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] And it was reported to Him, "Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside, wishing to see You."
[SUP]21 [/SUP] But He answered and said to them, "My mother and My brothers are these who hear the word of God and do it."
Luke 11:27-28
[SUP]27 [/SUP] And it came about while He said these things, one of the women in the crowd raised her voice, and said to Him, " Blessed is the womb that bore You, and the breasts at which You nursed."
[SUP]28 [/SUP] But He said, "On the contrary, blessed are those who hear the word of God, and observe it."
Even Jesus put others ABOVE Mary!
So why do you Corrupted Catholics put Mary above God?
I think its because the Catholics have made Mary their God and Worship and Serve her AS THEIR GOD!
We were CHOSEN by God long before He created anything.
Ephesians 1:3-8
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished upon us.
How can a person lose their Salvation when it was Jesus Himself who chose us and Predestined that we WILL enter into Heaven?
All those who teach we can lose our Salvation by sinning we NOT chosen and were NOT Predestined to enter into Heaven. Only those who have never received Salvation are the ones who lose their Salvation!
Ephesians 1:3-8
[SUP]3 [/SUP] Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who has blessed us with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ,
[SUP]4 [/SUP] just as He chose us in Him before the foundation of the world, that we should be holy and blameless before Him. In love
[SUP]5 [/SUP] He predestined us to adoption as sons through Jesus Christ to Himself, according to the kind intention of His will,
[SUP]6 [/SUP] to the praise of the glory of His grace, which He freely bestowed on us in the Beloved.
[SUP]7 [/SUP] In Him we have redemption through His blood, the forgiveness of our trespasses, according to the riches of His grace,
[SUP]8 [/SUP] which He lavished upon us.
How can a person lose their Salvation when it was Jesus Himself who chose us and Predestined that we WILL enter into Heaven?
All those who teach we can lose our Salvation by sinning we NOT chosen and were NOT Predestined to enter into Heaven. Only those who have never received Salvation are the ones who lose their Salvation!
Actually Jesus DID place those who followed Him above Mary because He knew you Corrupted Catholic would elevate Mary to being equal and above God.
Romans 3 clearly says ALL have sinned and NONE are righteous which also includes Mary.
Read the verses i quoted. Jesus did put others above Mary.
Which means for you Catholics to bow down to a stature or picture of Mary means you are Worshiping and serving Mary as your God and every Catholic who does this will be cast into the Lake of Fire along with Satan and his angles.
Romans 3 clearly says ALL have sinned and NONE are righteous which also includes Mary.
Read the verses i quoted. Jesus did put others above Mary.
Which means for you Catholics to bow down to a stature or picture of Mary means you are Worshiping and serving Mary as your God and every Catholic who does this will be cast into the Lake of Fire along with Satan and his angles.
Jesus DID say those who hear the word of God and do it ARE His Mother and Brothers. You need to study what these verses are saying. Jesus KNEW the Catholics would put Mary ABOVE God and this is why He said it.
I do not see Jesus putting Mary anywhere in the picture.
Besides does it really matter if Mary was equal to those who followed Jesus? We do not see Mary doing much of anything in the Scriptures.
The whole focus of this is Mary is NOT God like the Catholics teach! Mary has no Powers to hear or answer any of the Prayers directed to her. This is the point i am making.
Praying the Rosary, Praying the "Hail Mary", bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry that will keep the Catholics from entering into Heaven is the main point I am making.
I do not see Jesus putting Mary anywhere in the picture.
Besides does it really matter if Mary was equal to those who followed Jesus? We do not see Mary doing much of anything in the Scriptures.
The whole focus of this is Mary is NOT God like the Catholics teach! Mary has no Powers to hear or answer any of the Prayers directed to her. This is the point i am making.
Praying the Rosary, Praying the "Hail Mary", bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry that will keep the Catholics from entering into Heaven is the main point I am making.
E
Your not very discerning here.
Jesus ssaid who are my mother and brother, those who do the will of God. Mary did the will of God. so she wouldl be included in that group. That group would not be placed in a position above mary.
Your only not very discerning, Your not very helpful, Jesus did not say those things because he know the catholics would do anything, he said them in response to what was going on at the time.
Your never going to convince a catholic to leave their church on the mary issue.. Give it up. I have many ex catholics in my church, An dnon of them left because someone proved to them mary was a sinner, and not the queen of heaven. In fact many of them never even gave it a thought.
They left because of the gospel issue, not who or what mary was.
Jesus ssaid who are my mother and brother, those who do the will of God. Mary did the will of God. so she wouldl be included in that group. That group would not be placed in a position above mary.
Your only not very discerning, Your not very helpful, Jesus did not say those things because he know the catholics would do anything, he said them in response to what was going on at the time.
Your never going to convince a catholic to leave their church on the mary issue.. Give it up. I have many ex catholics in my church, An dnon of them left because someone proved to them mary was a sinner, and not the queen of heaven. In fact many of them never even gave it a thought.
They left because of the gospel issue, not who or what mary was.
You really do not understand what God says in the Scriptures. Why did Jesus say all those who followed Him are His mother and Brothers if Mary was truly following Him?
Mary is NOT the Queen of Heaven and never was. Making Mary the Queen of Heaven IS a Gospel issue!
Sounds to me that maybe you side with the Catholics over God.
I left the Catholic Church because of the false Doctrines about Mary and everything else the Catholics taught.
Mary is NOT the Queen of Heaven and never was. Making Mary the Queen of Heaven IS a Gospel issue!
Sounds to me that maybe you side with the Catholics over God.
I left the Catholic Church because of the false Doctrines about Mary and everything else the Catholics taught.
E
lol.. Dude, your losing any ounce of credability you may have, and it is slipping through your proud fingers.
Jesus said his mother was whoever did his commands.
Mary did his commands, so you do not put her UNDER those other people who did the same thing, you put her as the same (she is saved just like the rest of us, Jesus is her savior)
And your complete lack of discernment about what I do and do not know about scripture just goes to show your not being led by the spirit in a few things you think you are here.
I am trying to help you. Not hurt you.
Jesus said his mother was whoever did his commands.
Mary did his commands, so you do not put her UNDER those other people who did the same thing, you put her as the same (she is saved just like the rest of us, Jesus is her savior)
And your complete lack of discernment about what I do and do not know about scripture just goes to show your not being led by the spirit in a few things you think you are here.
I am trying to help you. Not hurt you.
S
It's good for bros to help each other. Great sig, btw! Amen! Maybe mec was just saying AtTheTime Jesus was pointing out that His family consists of them that are saved, as a point to ponder for those nearby willing to listen, not as a condemnation of His earthly family.I think sometimes ppl, (not you, just generally) ppl view this verse as Jesus just coldly waving His hand in a brush-off of His mom and sibs, as if to say ' Not THEM! but THESE are my family', but I don't think Jesus would ever be so disrespectful to His earth-family, (as I've been with mine, shame on me, but that's another story), I like to think of His tone of teaching similar to when He asked another, 'Why do you call me good?'. He wasn't denying His goodness or Godhood, even, but was challenging him, and us, with the truth to ponder just who He is.
Who is my family?
Why do you call me good?
Who do men say that I am?
Who do YOU say that I am?
What a wonderful God and Saviour that would be so gracious with such a sinner as myself, to gently yet pointedly cause me to ponder these things. He's always bringing us back to Himself. Notice, God draws us to Jesus, not to Mary or 'saints' or church etc., but to Him.
Thx, bros. I have some prayer and confession to make with our Saviour. I've been thinking He's been kinda far, but it's been me, really.
Who is my family?
Why do you call me good?
Who do men say that I am?
Who do YOU say that I am?
What a wonderful God and Saviour that would be so gracious with such a sinner as myself, to gently yet pointedly cause me to ponder these things. He's always bringing us back to Himself. Notice, God draws us to Jesus, not to Mary or 'saints' or church etc., but to Him.
Thx, bros. I have some prayer and confession to make with our Saviour. I've been thinking He's been kinda far, but it's been me, really.
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E
I would agree with all of this.
He wants us to see the important things, and not the non important.. Mary and her children were in sin here, Not trusting that God could protect Jesus, and she feared the religious in power, who could kill Jesus.
Satan could have used this for evil. Jesus turned it around, and used it for good.
He wants us to see the important things, and not the non important.. Mary and her children were in sin here, Not trusting that God could protect Jesus, and she feared the religious in power, who could kill Jesus.
Satan could have used this for evil. Jesus turned it around, and used it for good.
Some time discus about Mary not necessary mean emphasis on Mary.
Discus about Mary some time mean emphasis about the word of God.
The fact is there is people believe Mary able to hear our pray, She is Queen of heaven. She has the greatest authority in heaven after Jesus.
We want to emphasis on the word of God by tell them it is not what God say.