Catholic Heresy (for the record)
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The Catholic Church rejects most of what God says in the Scriptures to teach their heresies. They teach Mary was born without sin yet God said for ALL have sinned. They teach Salvation is received by Works and Faith yet God clearly says we receive Salvation by Faith and Grace.
The Catholic Church teaches we MUST spend time in Purgatory to WORK off the stain of our sins. But yet God clearly says in the Scriptures its the Blood of Jesus that washed us clean of all our sins.
Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry. Praying the "Hail Mary" Prayer is Idolatry. Praying the Rosary to Mary is Idolatry. Asking Mary to help you is Idolatry.
God clearly says all those practice Idolatry will never enter into Heaven. Every Catholic who Prays to Mary, bows down to a statue of Mary, prays the Rosary. will never enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where all Catholics will end up in.
Pope John Paul II will NEVER be allowed to enter into Heaven because he Worshiped Mary as his God. In fact i do not see ANY Pope entering into Heaven.
The Catholic Church teaches we MUST spend time in Purgatory to WORK off the stain of our sins. But yet God clearly says in the Scriptures its the Blood of Jesus that washed us clean of all our sins.
Galatians 5:19-21
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP] idolatry, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
Bowing down to a statue of Mary is Idolatry. Praying the "Hail Mary" Prayer is Idolatry. Praying the Rosary to Mary is Idolatry. Asking Mary to help you is Idolatry.
God clearly says all those practice Idolatry will never enter into Heaven. Every Catholic who Prays to Mary, bows down to a statue of Mary, prays the Rosary. will never enter into Heaven. The Lake of Fire is where all Catholics will end up in.
Pope John Paul II will NEVER be allowed to enter into Heaven because he Worshiped Mary as his God. In fact i do not see ANY Pope entering into Heaven.
Not unnecessarily, it was posted to show how corrupt, how far, the Catholic Church has walked away from God to serve Satan. That was the main point.
They were not trying to appease Hitler, they were doing it because Hitler promised to put them in charge so everybody would have to be a Catholic. It was all about Power over the people and the Churches.
They were not trying to appease Hitler, they were doing it because Hitler promised to put them in charge so everybody would have to be a Catholic. It was all about Power over the people and the Churches.
It is not necessary to embarrass and humiliate todays catholics. Show them from the bible what they need to know to come to a correct saving knowledge of Christ. Show them the difference between salvation by works and salvation by grace. Show them that grace is not metered out drop by drop through sacraments through the church but poured out in abundance through the Holy Spirit.
Share with them useful things and give them the word of God trusting that God will use the word and His Spirit to convict abut sin, righteousness and judgment.
If they argue let them argue with God and not with you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Share with them useful things and give them the word of God trusting that God will use the word and His Spirit to convict abut sin, righteousness and judgment.
If they argue let them argue with God and not with you.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
Well, perhaps the thread's topic, way back thousands of posts ago... but the issue *I* personally was raising was that in theological debate, people who hear their viewpoints misrepresented - intentionally or otherwise - will struggle to give the argument (or Gospel, or doctrine) honest consideration, when their own viewpoints weren't honestly considered (evidenced by an intellectually dishonest argument).
The gospel operates on having a messenger, feet that spread it. It doesn't advance far when the messenger is unreasonably disagreeable.
It draws on something that is in Scripture "do unto others." One who wants an honest ear to their ideas should do the same to others. Very basic, elementary Sunday school lesson, often disregarded right here on ChristianChat, in the name of the very same God who said such.
The gospel operates on having a messenger, feet that spread it. It doesn't advance far when the messenger is unreasonably disagreeable.
It draws on something that is in Scripture "do unto others." One who wants an honest ear to their ideas should do the same to others. Very basic, elementary Sunday school lesson, often disregarded right here on ChristianChat, in the name of the very same God who said such.
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But we have refuted the Catholic Church false teachings.
Romans 3:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
No one but Jesus was Righteous! Mary was not Righteous and Mary never did Good.
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Mary was born with Original Sin, Mary was born a sinner, and Mary died a sinner. Just because you Catholics HATE the very Word of God does not give you the right to make up any lie you want and pass it off as a Truth from God.
Yes they do call her Blessed, but we are NOT to Worship her as our God like you Catholics do!
Proverbs 6:16-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
God hates liars! God will punish all the Catholics who Worship Mary. What you Catholics are doing with Mary is Idolatry!
Galatians 5:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]IDOLATRY, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
No Catholic will ever be allowed to enter into Heaven because they have made Mary their God!
Now Fordman i give you a challenge. Where in the Scriptures did God say Mary was "Without sin"?
I do know for a fact you cannot prove Mary was born without sin Fordman and i do know for a fact all you will do is quote from the Catholic Church and NEVER from the Scriptures.
Why Fordman do you hate the Word of God so much?
Could it be because the Scriptures prove you do Worship Mary as your God?
Look at Pope John Paul II and how he Worship Mary as his God. He died in this sin and will never enter into Heaven.
Romans 3:9-10
[SUP]9 [/SUP]For we have previously charged both Jews and Greeks that they are all under sin.
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:12
[SUP]12 [/SUP] They have all turned aside; They have together become unprofitable; There is none who does good, no, not one."
No one but Jesus was Righteous! Mary was not Righteous and Mary never did Good.
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God
Mary was born with Original Sin, Mary was born a sinner, and Mary died a sinner. Just because you Catholics HATE the very Word of God does not give you the right to make up any lie you want and pass it off as a Truth from God.
Yes they do call her Blessed, but we are NOT to Worship her as our God like you Catholics do!
Proverbs 6:16-19 (NKJV)
[SUP]16 [/SUP] These six things the LORD hates, Yes, seven are an abomination to Him:
[SUP]17 [/SUP] A proud look, A lying tongue, Hands that shed innocent blood,
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A heart that devises wicked plans, Feet that are swift in running to evil,
[SUP]19 [/SUP] A false witness who speaks lies, And one who sows discord among brethren.
God hates liars! God will punish all the Catholics who Worship Mary. What you Catholics are doing with Mary is Idolatry!
Galatians 5:19-21 (NKJV)
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Now the works of the flesh are evident, which are: adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lewdness,
[SUP]20 [/SUP]IDOLATRY, sorcery, hatred, contentions, jealousies, outbursts of wrath, selfish ambitions, dissensions, heresies,
[SUP]21 [/SUP] envy, murders, drunkenness, revelries, and the like; of which I tell you beforehand, just as I also told you in time past, that those who practice such things will not inherit the kingdom of God.
No Catholic will ever be allowed to enter into Heaven because they have made Mary their God!
Now Fordman i give you a challenge. Where in the Scriptures did God say Mary was "Without sin"?
I do know for a fact you cannot prove Mary was born without sin Fordman and i do know for a fact all you will do is quote from the Catholic Church and NEVER from the Scriptures.
Why Fordman do you hate the Word of God so much?
Could it be because the Scriptures prove you do Worship Mary as your God?
Look at Pope John Paul II and how he Worship Mary as his God. He died in this sin and will never enter into Heaven.
A
No you haven't. Actually, you haven't even come close. Sheesh....
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Good to see you accept the Catholic Doctrine of "Original Sin" Mike. (There is hope for you yet. The rest of your quote is utter nonsence, and not worth the time or energy for a responce!) As for the Catholic Beleif of Mary's sinlessness, I acknowledge that there is no explicit verse that directly settles this issue. One must keep in mind, the word "Bible" isn't found in Scripture, but you beleive in it don't you? The word "Trinity" isn't found in Scripture, but you beleive in it don't you? And then we have the word......"Incarnation" you beleive in the Incarnation of Jesus don't you? Well Mike, the word incarnation is not directly present in Scripture either, but it does say about Jesus taking on flesh. It certainly teaches in many places .. John 1, Ephesians, Hebrews etc .. that Jesus existed prior to his birth in Bethlehem. That kinda puts a monkey wrench into your belief that "if its not in Scripture than it is not true." (i.e. Sola Scriptura, which of its self is nowhwere to be found in Scripture) So you see, this is why we Catholics don't think that an explicit verse is necessary to prove that something is scriptural, and that Sacred Scripture along with Sacred Tradition go hand in hand. Thats why we think that if a doctrine is implied in Scripture or logically follows from what we find in Scripture, and if there is nothing in Scripture that directly refutes it, then that belief can be considered scriptural. Can you show where in Scripture ot directly refutes Mary's sinlessness?
Which brings up Rom.3:23; "for all have sinned." While on the surface this may appear to clearly contradict the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness, further disection of the original Greek behind this passage, as well as an examination of the context of the verse within the letter to the Romans reveals that Rom 3:23 is not as plain as you may think.
First, the Greek. The word for "all" used here is 'pas'. While on occasion, it can be used to refer to every single person, it is most often used to mean "the majority of people." This is made evident by other verses in Scripture in which the same Greek word for "all" is used. They include the following: 1Cor.15:22; For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Yet we know that those who do not accept the grace of Christ will not be made alive in Him. Not every single person has died physically either ( Enoch in Gen.5:24 and Heb.11:5; and Elijah in 2Ki.2:11; Sir.48:4,9; 1Macc.2:58.
Rom.11:26, "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Yet we know that not every person of Israel will be saved.
Rom.15:14; "And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
Yet not every Roman could be filled with every ounce of knowledge.
Matt.2:3; "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him."
Yet surely not every single person in Jerusalem was troubled.
Matt.3:5; Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan"
Every single person in Judea Mike?
Matt.21:10; "And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?"
Every single person was moved Mike?
You get the idea, right Mike? Now that I have established that "all" can in fact just mean "the majority," our next question is this Mike. Is that the meaning of "all" in Rom.3:23 Mike? To answer this question, one must look logically at the context of the verse. While Paul's letter to the Romans is mostly known for its defense of salvation by faith, Paul is also interested here in how this salvation relates to the tensions between the Jews and the Gentiles. Each group claims that the other is better, or more favored by God. The Jews in particular boast of being under the law and God's chosen people. The verses that lead up to verse 23 are basically a hypothetical dialogue between the Jews and Paul. The Jew is here trying to find ways in which his sin cannot be counted as unrighteousness, yet Paul rebukes every one.
One can see from this exchange Mike, that Paul's obvious intent here is to affirm that neither group is greater then the other. All the objections of the Jew are denied. "What then? Are we better than they? No, for I beleive to have proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" (Rom 3:9). So you see,Rom 3:23 is simply a repetition of this verse, and that is Paul's purpose for saying that "all have sinned," nothing more.
In closing Mike, I find it ironic when it comes to our Catholic beliefs about Mary, many of you within this forum tend to place demands on the evidence you will accept that are way more stringent and unyielding than the demands that you place on their own beliefs. {rolling eyes}
Pax Christi
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Good to see you accept the Catholic Doctrine of "Original Sin" Mike. (There is hope for you yet. The rest of your quote is utter nonsence, and not worth the time or energy for a responce!) As for the Catholic Beleif of Mary's sinlessness, I acknowledge that there is no explicit verse that directly settles this issue. One must keep in mind, the word "Bible" isn't found in Scripture, but you beleive in it don't you? The word "Trinity" isn't found in Scripture, but you beleive in it don't you? And then we have the word......"Incarnation" you beleive in the Incarnation of Jesus don't you? Well Mike, the word incarnation is not directly present in Scripture either, but it does say about Jesus taking on flesh. It certainly teaches in many places .. John 1, Ephesians, Hebrews etc .. that Jesus existed prior to his birth in Bethlehem. That kinda puts a monkey wrench into your belief that "if its not in Scripture than it is not true." (i.e. Sola Scriptura, which of its self is nowhwere to be found in Scripture) So you see, this is why we Catholics don't think that an explicit verse is necessary to prove that something is scriptural, and that Sacred Scripture along with Sacred Tradition go hand in hand. Thats why we think that if a doctrine is implied in Scripture or logically follows from what we find in Scripture, and if there is nothing in Scripture that directly refutes it, then that belief can be considered scriptural. Can you show where in Scripture ot directly refutes Mary's sinlessness?
Which brings up Rom.3:23; "for all have sinned." While on the surface this may appear to clearly contradict the doctrine of Mary's sinlessness, further disection of the original Greek behind this passage, as well as an examination of the context of the verse within the letter to the Romans reveals that Rom 3:23 is not as plain as you may think.
First, the Greek. The word for "all" used here is 'pas'. While on occasion, it can be used to refer to every single person, it is most often used to mean "the majority of people." This is made evident by other verses in Scripture in which the same Greek word for "all" is used. They include the following: 1Cor.15:22; For as in Adam all die, even so in Christ shall all be made alive. Yet we know that those who do not accept the grace of Christ will not be made alive in Him. Not every single person has died physically either ( Enoch in Gen.5:24 and Heb.11:5; and Elijah in 2Ki.2:11; Sir.48:4,9; 1Macc.2:58.
Rom.11:26, "And so all Israel shall be saved: as it is written, There shall come out of Sion the Deliverer, and shall turn away ungodliness from Jacob.
Yet we know that not every person of Israel will be saved.
Rom.15:14; "And I myself also am persuaded of you, my brethren, that ye also are full of goodness, filled with all knowledge, able also to admonish one another.
Yet not every Roman could be filled with every ounce of knowledge.
Matt.2:3; "When Herod the king had heard these things, he was troubled, and all Jerusalem with him."
Yet surely not every single person in Jerusalem was troubled.
Matt.3:5; Then went out to him Jerusalem, and all Judaea, and all the region round about Jordan"
Every single person in Judea Mike?
Matt.21:10; "And when he was come into Jerusalem, all the city was moved, saying, Who is this?"
Every single person was moved Mike?
You get the idea, right Mike? Now that I have established that "all" can in fact just mean "the majority," our next question is this Mike. Is that the meaning of "all" in Rom.3:23 Mike? To answer this question, one must look logically at the context of the verse. While Paul's letter to the Romans is mostly known for its defense of salvation by faith, Paul is also interested here in how this salvation relates to the tensions between the Jews and the Gentiles. Each group claims that the other is better, or more favored by God. The Jews in particular boast of being under the law and God's chosen people. The verses that lead up to verse 23 are basically a hypothetical dialogue between the Jews and Paul. The Jew is here trying to find ways in which his sin cannot be counted as unrighteousness, yet Paul rebukes every one.
One can see from this exchange Mike, that Paul's obvious intent here is to affirm that neither group is greater then the other. All the objections of the Jew are denied. "What then? Are we better than they? No, for I beleive to have proved both Jews and Gentiles, that they are all under sin" (Rom 3:9). So you see,Rom 3:23 is simply a repetition of this verse, and that is Paul's purpose for saying that "all have sinned," nothing more.
In closing Mike, I find it ironic when it comes to our Catholic beliefs about Mary, many of you within this forum tend to place demands on the evidence you will accept that are way more stringent and unyielding than the demands that you place on their own beliefs. {rolling eyes}
Pax Christi
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Hmmmmm..... is this your personal opinion/interpretation of these verses? If so, can you prove to me that your personal opinion/interpretation of these verses are infallible and without absolute error? If not, one can only accept them for what they are, your personal opinion/interpretation and nothing more. Sorry.
Now Mike, if we are to look at the verses on Rom.3:10-12 logically. "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands, no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one." One can plainly see Paul is quoting Psalms 14:2-3, so it's important to examine the context from which the citation came in order to fully gasp its meaning. Here is the passage from the Psalms:
Psalms 14: 2-3: "The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. 3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one."
In this passage, David is directly addressing the sinfulness of the Jews. Paul cites David to further affirm his point that the Jews are just as sinful as the Gentiles, and in that way, no better. David is not attempting here to make some broad statement about all of mankind. The surrounding verses make this abundantly clear. Two verses later he writes that "...God is with the generation of the righteous" (14:5). In the immediately preceding Psalm, David proclaims "I trusted in your steadfast love...." (13:5), which certainly is seeking after God. In the very next Psalm he refers to "those who walk blamelessly, and do what is right...." (15:2).
Psalms 112:5 in your very own KJV Mike refers to a "good" man (Heb. towb), as does the book of Proverbs repeatedly (KJV, 11:23;12:2;13:22;14:14,19), using the same word towb, which appears in Psalm 14:2-3. And references to righteous men are innumerable (Job 17:9;22:19; Psa.5:12; 32:11;34:15;37:16.32; Mt.13:17; 25:46; Rom.5:19; Heb.11:4; Jam.5:16; 1Pet.3:12; 4:18,ect.) Lk.1:6 itself destroys an exaggerated understanding of Paul's words: "And they [Zechariah and Elizabeth] were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
What this shows Mike is that Ps.14:2-3 (and consequently Rom.3:10-12) is a hyperbolic passage. We cannot take it literally because there are indeed good men. David is exasperated by the sin that is so prevalent among the Jews. Paul quotes these words as a harsh reminder to the Jews, as if to say, "Before you get so puffed up with pride because God chose you to be His people, think about the words of your Father David."
If that weren't enough Mike, a third set of proof that Rom. 3:23 and 10-12 are not to be read as literal, all-encompassing judgments on all of mankind comes from common knowledge and everyday life. Would you agree that even in the world today we do in fact find millions of people who have not sinned, and even some who never will? Consider these three senerios:
1. A baby in the womb:
A baby not yet born is still a person, just like us, would you not agree? yet he has not sinned. This is even affirmed in Rom.9:11 when Paul says, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call..."
2. Children below the age of reason:
It is common knowledge that until a child's cognitive development has progressed enough to where he can properly determine right from wrong and understand the moral implications of his actions, he cannot sin. Most children below the age of 7 fall into this category.
3. A vegetative or severely mentally-handicapped person:
One of my best friends has a sister who falls into this category. She cannot walk. She cannot talk. She is just as old as me, but forever confined to a wheelchair. This has been her situation since her birth. All of her needs must be met by other people. Because of her impairment she has never committed a sin. She never will.
By "your interpretation" of Rom.3:23 and 10-12 Mike, all of the people in the examples I gave above are sinners. {rolling eyes} So do you still want to stand with your way of thinking that theses verses literally means "ALL?" Which would include "ALL" babies in the womb, "ALL" Children below the age of reason, and "ALL" people that are in a vegetative state or severely mentally-handicapped?
So you see Mike, once you and a few others in this forum truly understands the actual intent of these passages from Paul's letter to the Romans and acknowledges the realistic scope of their meaning, can you/them finally open your minds (as Scripture is open) to receive the truth in The Immaculate Conception and the sinlessness of Mary.
Pax Christi
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Hmmmmm..... is this your personal opinion/interpretation of these verses? If so, can you prove to me that your personal opinion/interpretation of these verses are infallible and without absolute error? If not, one can only accept them for what they are, your personal opinion/interpretation and nothing more. Sorry.
Now Mike, if we are to look at the verses on Rom.3:10-12 logically. "None is righteous, no, not one; 11 no one understands, no one seeks for God. 12 All have turned aside, together they have gone wrong; no one does good, not even one." One can plainly see Paul is quoting Psalms 14:2-3, so it's important to examine the context from which the citation came in order to fully gasp its meaning. Here is the passage from the Psalms:
Psalms 14: 2-3: "The LORD looks down from heaven upon the children of men, to see if there are any that act wisely, that seek after God. 3 They have all gone astray, they are all alike corrupt; there is none that does good, no, not one."
In this passage, David is directly addressing the sinfulness of the Jews. Paul cites David to further affirm his point that the Jews are just as sinful as the Gentiles, and in that way, no better. David is not attempting here to make some broad statement about all of mankind. The surrounding verses make this abundantly clear. Two verses later he writes that "...God is with the generation of the righteous" (14:5). In the immediately preceding Psalm, David proclaims "I trusted in your steadfast love...." (13:5), which certainly is seeking after God. In the very next Psalm he refers to "those who walk blamelessly, and do what is right...." (15:2).
Psalms 112:5 in your very own KJV Mike refers to a "good" man (Heb. towb), as does the book of Proverbs repeatedly (KJV, 11:23;12:2;13:22;14:14,19), using the same word towb, which appears in Psalm 14:2-3. And references to righteous men are innumerable (Job 17:9;22:19; Psa.5:12; 32:11;34:15;37:16.32; Mt.13:17; 25:46; Rom.5:19; Heb.11:4; Jam.5:16; 1Pet.3:12; 4:18,ect.) Lk.1:6 itself destroys an exaggerated understanding of Paul's words: "And they [Zechariah and Elizabeth] were both righteous before God, walking in all the commandments and ordinances of the Lord blameless."
What this shows Mike is that Ps.14:2-3 (and consequently Rom.3:10-12) is a hyperbolic passage. We cannot take it literally because there are indeed good men. David is exasperated by the sin that is so prevalent among the Jews. Paul quotes these words as a harsh reminder to the Jews, as if to say, "Before you get so puffed up with pride because God chose you to be His people, think about the words of your Father David."
If that weren't enough Mike, a third set of proof that Rom. 3:23 and 10-12 are not to be read as literal, all-encompassing judgments on all of mankind comes from common knowledge and everyday life. Would you agree that even in the world today we do in fact find millions of people who have not sinned, and even some who never will? Consider these three senerios:
1. A baby in the womb:
A baby not yet born is still a person, just like us, would you not agree? yet he has not sinned. This is even affirmed in Rom.9:11 when Paul says, "though they were not yet born and had done nothing either good or bad, in order that God's purpose of election might continue, not because of works but because of his call..."
2. Children below the age of reason:
It is common knowledge that until a child's cognitive development has progressed enough to where he can properly determine right from wrong and understand the moral implications of his actions, he cannot sin. Most children below the age of 7 fall into this category.
3. A vegetative or severely mentally-handicapped person:
One of my best friends has a sister who falls into this category. She cannot walk. She cannot talk. She is just as old as me, but forever confined to a wheelchair. This has been her situation since her birth. All of her needs must be met by other people. Because of her impairment she has never committed a sin. She never will.
By "your interpretation" of Rom.3:23 and 10-12 Mike, all of the people in the examples I gave above are sinners. {rolling eyes} So do you still want to stand with your way of thinking that theses verses literally means "ALL?" Which would include "ALL" babies in the womb, "ALL" Children below the age of reason, and "ALL" people that are in a vegetative state or severely mentally-handicapped?
So you see Mike, once you and a few others in this forum truly understands the actual intent of these passages from Paul's letter to the Romans and acknowledges the realistic scope of their meaning, can you/them finally open your minds (as Scripture is open) to receive the truth in The Immaculate Conception and the sinlessness of Mary.
Pax Christi
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You just made my case against you stronger by twisting what the Scriptures say to justify your Worship of Mary as your God.
If Sola Scriptura is NOT what God teaches then what other source has Truths that God does not Have?
If God is not our only source for the Truth, then tell me Fordman what other source has Truths that God does not have?
God is Omniscient.
God knows everything and His knowledge is complete. This is called His omniscience. Isaiah said that Israel had not seen everything that God had planned (Isaiah 40:28). Job said that God had all knowledge (Job 37:16). The psalmist said that God’s understanding was infinite (Psalm 147:5). The New Testament also claims God’s omniscience in 1 John 3:20 and Romans 11:33.
If God has all knowledge then you cannot say Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine.
There is no other source apart from God for the Truth. Its God and God only that has all the Truth.
Therefore to claim God does not have all the Truth in His Scriptures is saying you do not believe in God! You cannot believe God is all powerful and at the same time teach there are Truths apart from God.
You have just proved my point Fordman that you Catholics do follow Mary as your God and you do believe God is powerless and needed the help of Mary to keep Jesus free from sin.
This is why today i truly believe the Catholics have walked away from God to Worship and serve Mary as their God. Why else would Catholics teach God is powerless and does not have all knowledge?
Nobody can call themselves a follower of Jesus and teach Doctrines from men as Truths that God does not have.
This is why Pope Francis believes Muslims are our brothers in Christ! This is why Pope John Paul II Worshiped ans served Mary as his God.
May God have mercy on your soul Fordman for serving Satan.
If Sola Scriptura is NOT what God teaches then what other source has Truths that God does not Have?
If God is not our only source for the Truth, then tell me Fordman what other source has Truths that God does not have?
God is Omniscient.
God knows everything and His knowledge is complete. This is called His omniscience. Isaiah said that Israel had not seen everything that God had planned (Isaiah 40:28). Job said that God had all knowledge (Job 37:16). The psalmist said that God’s understanding was infinite (Psalm 147:5). The New Testament also claims God’s omniscience in 1 John 3:20 and Romans 11:33.
If God has all knowledge then you cannot say Sola Scriptura is a false doctrine.
There is no other source apart from God for the Truth. Its God and God only that has all the Truth.
Therefore to claim God does not have all the Truth in His Scriptures is saying you do not believe in God! You cannot believe God is all powerful and at the same time teach there are Truths apart from God.
You have just proved my point Fordman that you Catholics do follow Mary as your God and you do believe God is powerless and needed the help of Mary to keep Jesus free from sin.
This is why today i truly believe the Catholics have walked away from God to Worship and serve Mary as their God. Why else would Catholics teach God is powerless and does not have all knowledge?
Nobody can call themselves a follower of Jesus and teach Doctrines from men as Truths that God does not have.
This is why Pope Francis believes Muslims are our brothers in Christ! This is why Pope John Paul II Worshiped ans served Mary as his God.
May God have mercy on your soul Fordman for serving Satan.
God CLEARLY said:
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
For ALL have sinned and there is none righteous.
This proves you do HATE what God says in the Scriptures.
You can twist the Scriptures all you want and call God a liar, but beware you are not fighting against me, you are fighting against the Holy Spirit and will not be allowed to enter into Heaven.
Matthew 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
Romans 3:10
[SUP]10 [/SUP] As it is written: "There is none righteous, no, not one;
Romans 3:23
[SUP]23 [/SUP] for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God,
For ALL have sinned and there is none righteous.
This proves you do HATE what God says in the Scriptures.
You can twist the Scriptures all you want and call God a liar, but beware you are not fighting against me, you are fighting against the Holy Spirit and will not be allowed to enter into Heaven.
Matthew 7:15-19
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP]Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
You are wasting your time MikeHenderson with Fordman and the rest of the Catholics. The Catholics do not like what God has said in the Scriptures about Mary being a sinner. The Catholics get around the Scriptures from God by declaring their TRADITIONS have more Authority and more Truth in them then God does.
Only God has all the Truths and only the Scriptures has all the Truths!
For the Catholics to declare they have Truths outside of God and the Scriptures proves the Catholic Church is a Cult.
You must understand today the Catholic Church HAS walked away from God by declaring that Mary is greater than God and i can prove it.
God could not keep Jesus free from sin and needed the help of Mary to keep Jesus sinless. Therefore God is powerless and Mary is greater than God.
Do you see how the Catholics have walked away from God to serve and Worship Mary as their God!
It does not matter what you say Fordman you by your own words have just proved the Catholic Church is a Cult today that serves and Worships Mary!
Repent Fordman, reject Mary as your God, get down on your knees and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior before its too late and you end up in the Lake of Fire!
Only God has all the Truths and only the Scriptures has all the Truths!
For the Catholics to declare they have Truths outside of God and the Scriptures proves the Catholic Church is a Cult.
You must understand today the Catholic Church HAS walked away from God by declaring that Mary is greater than God and i can prove it.
God could not keep Jesus free from sin and needed the help of Mary to keep Jesus sinless. Therefore God is powerless and Mary is greater than God.
Do you see how the Catholics have walked away from God to serve and Worship Mary as their God!
It does not matter what you say Fordman you by your own words have just proved the Catholic Church is a Cult today that serves and Worships Mary!
Repent Fordman, reject Mary as your God, get down on your knees and accept Jesus as your Lord and Savior before its too late and you end up in the Lake of Fire!
I agree with Mec. Its a waste of time Witnessing to the Catholics about God.
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
The Catholics today are false prophets, and false teachers.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Its sad that this will happen to many Catholics.
Matthew 7:15-20
[SUP]15 [/SUP] "Beware of false prophets, who come to you in sheep's clothing, but inwardly they are ravenous wolves.
[SUP]16 [/SUP] You will know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes from thornbushes or figs from thistles?
[SUP]17 [/SUP] Even so, every good tree bears good fruit, but a bad tree bears bad fruit.
[SUP]18 [/SUP] A good tree cannot bear bad fruit, nor can a bad tree bear good fruit.
[SUP]19 [/SUP] Every tree that does not bear good fruit is cut down and thrown into the fire.
[SUP]20 [/SUP] Therefore by their fruits you will know them.
The Catholics today are false prophets, and false teachers.
Matthew 7:21-23
[SUP]21 [/SUP] "Not everyone who says to Me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.
[SUP]22 [/SUP] Many will say to Me in that day, 'Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?'
[SUP]23 [/SUP] And then I will declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness!'
Its sad that this will happen to many Catholics.