Catholic Heresy (for the record)
- Thread starter RoboOp
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The problem is that your church distorts what is said so that they can control men's salvation. It is you who pick and choose. If you would think for yourself you would not make these foolish statements.
What Jesus had in mind was Isaiah 44.1-4; 55.10-13. The water is illustrative of the Spirit. It does not refer to baptism. John's baptism pointed ahead to the coming of the Spirit. It did not convey the Spirit. Christian baptism was as yet unknown. Jesus was saying that Nicodemus (and we) had to experience the power of the Spirit from above in order to be truly saved, something experienced by faith when we put our trust in Christ. Compare John 4.10-14; 7.37-39. Nicodemus was well versed in tradition but he lacked the Spirit like most Roman Catholics.
How do we receive the Spirit? By Being accounted as righteous by faith (Rom 8.1).
What Jesus had in mind was Isaiah 44.1-4; 55.10-13. The water is illustrative of the Spirit. It does not refer to baptism. John's baptism pointed ahead to the coming of the Spirit. It did not convey the Spirit. Christian baptism was as yet unknown. Jesus was saying that Nicodemus (and we) had to experience the power of the Spirit from above in order to be truly saved, something experienced by faith when we put our trust in Christ. Compare John 4.10-14; 7.37-39. Nicodemus was well versed in tradition but he lacked the Spirit like most Roman Catholics.
How do we receive the Spirit? By Being accounted as righteous by faith (Rom 8.1).
Originally Posted by valiant
LOL now I've hear it all. Forgeries my dear boy. Forgeries. The only genuine letter we have before 100 AD, apart from Scripture, is Clement's letter in c 95 AD. There is no proof for oral tradition. No one ever wrote down, 'this is oral tradition received from the Apostles' within a period in which it could be acceptable. Indeed the early church made clear that so called oral traditions incorporated in writings were unacceptable and heretical. That is why they limited authoritative books to be read in churches to the Apostolic writings.
Apostolic succession was a device by which certain teachers tried to combat heresy by pointing to those teachers who were in churches which had been founded by the Apostles. (there is absolutely no hint of preference for Rome). But it was not a doctrine, it was practical evidence. It had no divine backing. It was a theory of men useful in the first hundred years after the Apostles when men lived who had known the Apostles. Some came from those very churches who were heretics. Take Alexandria for instance. Both Clement and Origen were heretics as both espoused Gnostic views. Were they in the Apostolic succession? LOL
I'm not the only one who disapproved of him for interfering with church affairs. Both the bishops of Alexandria and Antioch rejected his request at Nicea to give Rome precedence. He may have distributed Scripture (possibly he believed in sola scriptura?) but he also introduced paganism into the Roman church from which it never recovered. And he also introduced the idea of using violence to force people to conform, a lesson the Roman church learned exceedingly well.
Apostolic succession was a device by which certain teachers tried to combat heresy by pointing to those teachers who were in churches which had been founded by the Apostles. (there is absolutely no hint of preference for Rome). But it was not a doctrine, it was practical evidence. It had no divine backing. It was a theory of men useful in the first hundred years after the Apostles when men lived who had known the Apostles. Some came from those very churches who were heretics. Take Alexandria for instance. Both Clement and Origen were heretics as both espoused Gnostic views. Were they in the Apostolic succession? LOL
I'm not the only one who disapproved of him for interfering with church affairs. Both the bishops of Alexandria and Antioch rejected his request at Nicea to give Rome precedence. He may have distributed Scripture (possibly he believed in sola scriptura?) but he also introduced paganism into the Roman church from which it never recovered. And he also introduced the idea of using violence to force people to conform, a lesson the Roman church learned exceedingly well.
F
So your church gave the world the Bible? That claim is getting so very old. IT is NOT foolish for thinking that the glory goes to God for allowing and seeing through that His Words were gathered in a collection for the benefit of all people. He could have used anyone or anything to complete His plans. I wouldn't be so quick to gloat on being used of God if He used an ass to speak to Balaam.
And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Numbers 22:28
And the LORD opened the mouth of the ass, and she said unto Balaam, What have I done unto thee, that thou hast smitten me these three times?
Numbers 22:28
The church which gave me the Bible was the Apostolic church which had nothing to do with the later Roman Catholic church which did not begin its heresies until 700 AD, although it did build on heresies introduced after Constantine's interference.
LOL The Roman Catholic church did everything that it could to prevent me reading the Bible.
And yes Jesus is LORD and as LORD Mary is not His mother and has no sway with Him whatsoever. She was only the mother of what was according to the flesh (Rom 1.2-3). If you disagree show me it in the Bible.
LOL The Roman Catholic church did everything that it could to prevent me reading the Bible.
And yes Jesus is LORD and as LORD Mary is not His mother and has no sway with Him whatsoever. She was only the mother of what was according to the flesh (Rom 1.2-3). If you disagree show me it in the Bible.
What I have said is completely consistent with what Jesus taught Nicodemus. Water baptism is not the water needed in the new birth. Souls are saved by grace not water baptism.
I'm only giving you what the bible says and it has nothing to do with churches. Gods word is universal and applies to all men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
I'm only giving you what the bible says and it has nothing to do with churches. Gods word is universal and applies to all men.
For the cause of Christ
Roger
G
mw,
This sort of communication is a challenge. Online.
We all get frustrated. All of us post things that 'sound' insulting, when in fact some of them are nothing more than frustration with this mode or form of communication.
For example,
There is a post in this thread that pinpoints the issue. It is what the discussion should be focused on. I do not recall any questionable remarks or possible insults.
Has that post been answered? No.
That alone is frustrating.
I've called attention to it. Still unanswered.
You and I disagree on many doctrines and practices. But until the issue of history and tradition is addressed, there's little reason to expect someone to change their opinion or beliefs.
The post is 4416. Would you consider answering it?
This sort of communication is a challenge. Online.
We all get frustrated. All of us post things that 'sound' insulting, when in fact some of them are nothing more than frustration with this mode or form of communication.
For example,
There is a post in this thread that pinpoints the issue. It is what the discussion should be focused on. I do not recall any questionable remarks or possible insults.
Has that post been answered? No.
That alone is frustrating.
I've called attention to it. Still unanswered.
You and I disagree on many doctrines and practices. But until the issue of history and tradition is addressed, there's little reason to expect someone to change their opinion or beliefs.
The post is 4416. Would you consider answering it?
Brother Matt.
Every body ever sin. That why we not put our hope in religion. Not in protestant but in Jesus.
About catholic behind holocaust, if you follow lawsuit from holocaust victim to Vatican for about 10 years from 1999. they found out Vatican guilty for stolen holocaust victim gold and has to pay 1.25 billion. Than US government stop it because of sovereign immunity. Vatican is a country san fransisco court doesn't have the right to judge a country. Please google.
About priest hid Jew, it my just that priest did not agree the killing like you brother i believe you don't agree the killing to.
The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_catholic_church.htm
[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 18%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]VATICAN BANK CLAIMS:
Restitution & justice for concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relativesWhat are the charges against Archbishop Stepinac?
A vow of silence: Did gold stolen by Croatian fascists reach the Vatican?
What Is The Vatican Hiding? The Vatican's Complicity in Genocide in Fascist Croatia: The Suppressed Chapter of Holocaust History. by Barry Lituchy
The Real Genocide in Yugoslavia: "Independent" Croatia of 1941 Revisited by Srdja Trifkovic
Working for the Nazis: The Mufti of Jerusalem
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Government of the Republic of Croatia
Republic of Slovenia
Government of the Republic of Macedonia
Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - Administration[/TD]
[TD="width: 100%"]
During the Second World War in Yugoslavia, Catholic priests and Muslim clerics were willing accomplices in the genocide of the nations Serbian, Jewish and Roma population. From 1941 until 1945, the Nazi-installed regime of Ante Pavelic in Croatia carried out some of the most horrific crimes of the Holocaust (known as the Porajmos by the Roma), killing over 800,000 Yugoslav citizens - 750,000 Serbs, 60,000 Jews and 26,000 Roma. In these crimes, the Croatian Ustasha and Muslim fundamentalists were openly supported by the Vatican, the Archbishop of Zagreb Cardinal Alojzije Stepinac (1898-1960), and the Palestinian Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, Hajj Amin al-Husseini. Many of the victims of the Pavelic regime in Croatia were killed in the war's third largest death camp - Jasenovac, where over 200,000 people - mainly Orthodox Serbs met their deaths. Some 240,000 were "rebaptized" into the Catholic faith by fundamentalist Clerics in "the Catholic Kingdom of Croatia" as part of the policy to "kill a third, deport a third, convert a third" of Yugoslavia's Serbs, Jews and Roma in wartime Bosnia and Croatia (The Yugoslav Auschwitz and the Vatican, Vladimar Dedijer, Anriman-Verlag, Freiburg, Germany, 1988).
On April 6th 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Yugoslavia. By April 10th, Croatian fascists led by Ante Pavelic were allowed by Hitler and his ally Mussolini to set up a "independent" puppet state of Croatia. Hitler granted "Aryan" status to Croatia as his fascist allies carved up Yugoslavia. Pavelic had been awaiting these developments whilst under the auspices of Mussolini in Italy who had granted them the use of remote training camps on a Aeolian island and access to a propaganda station Radio Bari for broadcasts across the Adriatic. As soon as the new fascist state of Croatia was born, and campaign of cold-blooded terror began, as noted by John Cornwell in his book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII (Viking, London, UK, 1999):[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
Every body ever sin. That why we not put our hope in religion. Not in protestant but in Jesus.
About catholic behind holocaust, if you follow lawsuit from holocaust victim to Vatican for about 10 years from 1999. they found out Vatican guilty for stolen holocaust victim gold and has to pay 1.25 billion. Than US government stop it because of sovereign immunity. Vatican is a country san fransisco court doesn't have the right to judge a country. Please google.
About priest hid Jew, it my just that priest did not agree the killing like you brother i believe you don't agree the killing to.
The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
www.fantompowa.net/Flame/yugoslavia_catholic_church.htm
[SIZE=+3]The Role of the Catholic Church in Yugoslavia's Holocaust
[/SIZE][SIZE=+3]Seán Mac Mathúna[/SIZE][TABLE="width: 100%"]
[TR]
[TD="width: 18%, bgcolor: #FFFFFF"]VATICAN BANK CLAIMS:
Restitution & justice for concentration camp survivors of Serb, Jewish, and Ukrainian background and their relativesWhat are the charges against Archbishop Stepinac?
A vow of silence: Did gold stolen by Croatian fascists reach the Vatican?
What Is The Vatican Hiding? The Vatican's Complicity in Genocide in Fascist Croatia: The Suppressed Chapter of Holocaust History. by Barry Lituchy
The Real Genocide in Yugoslavia: "Independent" Croatia of 1941 Revisited by Srdja Trifkovic
Working for the Nazis: The Mufti of Jerusalem
Federal Republic of Yugoslavia
Government of the Republic of Croatia
Republic of Slovenia
Government of the Republic of Macedonia
Republic of Bosnia and Herzegovina - Administration[/TD]
[TD="width: 100%"]
The Nazi collaborator Archbishop Stepinac (right) and the Vatican representative to fascist Croatia, Abbot Marcone (left). Croatia has recently renamed a village in Krajina after Stepinac. Marcone was Pavelic's confessor and Stepinac was convicted of war crimes after the war. Several members of his clergy were involved in the genocide at Jasenovac - notably the Franciscan priest, Pater Miroslav Filipovic, who was one of the commandants of the camp.
On April 6th 1941, Nazi Germany invaded Yugoslavia. By April 10th, Croatian fascists led by Ante Pavelic were allowed by Hitler and his ally Mussolini to set up a "independent" puppet state of Croatia. Hitler granted "Aryan" status to Croatia as his fascist allies carved up Yugoslavia. Pavelic had been awaiting these developments whilst under the auspices of Mussolini in Italy who had granted them the use of remote training camps on a Aeolian island and access to a propaganda station Radio Bari for broadcasts across the Adriatic. As soon as the new fascist state of Croatia was born, and campaign of cold-blooded terror began, as noted by John Cornwell in his book Hitler's Pope: The Secret History of Pius XII (Viking, London, UK, 1999):[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]