Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[Elin]

Elin,

There are some huge assumptions being made if 2 TIM 3:16 is the basis for Sola Scriptura. Im not denying that fact Sacred Scripture is divinely inspired, God breathed, useful for teaching, rebuking etc. The question is the ears, soul, mind and nous of the one receiving the divine Word of God.

Sola Scriptura as authoritative for God's truth, not man-made doctrine, etc.

If the doctrine is not found in Scripture, we have no basis for believing it.

 

[Elin]

Yes. That verse says scripture is profitable. It does not say it is the ONLY way to be profitable.
It ignores all the scripture that discuss works, love, etc. as in the books of Matthew and James.
One can easily invent Sola Scriptura by ignoring other parts of the bible.

Still don't know what Sola Scriptura means. . .unless you are deliberately misrepresenting it.

You're opposition is to a non-existent belief.

 

[Elin]

For #4, I reviewed all the passages and there defiantly talks about our Lord and Savior (not in question here) but in the 5-8 translations I read there isn't the term "personal" anywhere. I would say that "personal Lord and Savior" has no literal Biblical merit.

Did he save you individually and is your master/Lord?

Then that makes him your personal Savior and Lord.

You guys misunderstand a lot.

Sola Scripture does not mean the exact words are in Scripture, it means that the doctrine is in Scripture.

Either you are ignorant on this subject, or you just need a straw man to knock down.

 

[mattp0625]

Still don't know what Sola Scriptura means. . .unless you are deliberately misrepresenting it.

You're opposition is to a non-existent belief.

Friend, please point to the words "only", "alone", or "authority" below:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

 

[notuptome]

Brother Jackson - an indulgence is a reduction of temporal punishment, not an exemption from sin nor a free pass for your eternal soul.

It usually includes performance of prayer, alms giving (e.g. to the poor), mass attendance, adoration, and receiving sacraments including confession and Eucharist.

The bible teaches that if a man transgress the law in any point he has transgressed the entire law. There is no degree of separation in sin. Any and all sin carries equal penalty for the unsaved man. The wages of sin is death. There is no reduction for penance in Gods economy. You are either under the law and sin or you are under grace and liberty. There is no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus.

Traditions that contradict Gods word are not traditions that the apostles handed down. They are traditions that men have corrupted for their own purposes.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[Jackson123]

Brother Jackson - you buy them from a manufacturer. Catholic company is a company, not a church. The enrollment costs nothing.

I suggest you read about the miracle of Simon Stock who was the Carmelite monk.

There are also conditions attached - you must recite certain prayers daily and remain chaste. You essentially become a member of the Carmelite Order of monks.

Not everyone believes in scapular enrollment, but I do.

Brother Matt.

I hope you investigate what the bible say about communicated with physically death people.

Brother, only God has the right to issue a promise about salvation.

Basically salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus. Not by doing certain ritual or wear certain thing.

If there is promise of salvation by something else, you better careful.

How human can make promise of spiritual salvation? It replace God. It the work of the devil brother.

Devil always essay to take God position.

So if there is a maneuver like this, I suggest you pray directly to Jesus ask a wisdom.

 

[mattp0625]

Brother Matt.

I hope you investigate what the bible say about communicated with physically death people.

Brother, only God has the right to issue a promise about salvation.

Basically salvation is by grace through faith in Jesus. Not by doing certain ritual or wear certain thing.

If there is promise of salvation by something else, you better careful.

How human can make promise of spiritual salvation? It replace God. It the work of the devil brother.

Devil always essay to take God position.

So if there is a maneuver like this, I suggest you pray directly to Jesus ask a wisdom.

Brother Jackson -

I believe God can do anything He wants to.
Do you not believe Mary is in heaven with God?
And that she is highly favored by God? ( Luke 1)

Do you believe 1 Cor 6?:

Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?[SUP]2 [/SUP]Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

 

[Elin]

Erin,

#18, onced saved always saved. The more biblical teaching on this is that we are saved, we are being saved and we hope to be saved. In others words, we know Christ, we know him more and more and we will fully know him.

Can one lets say,"except Christ into their hearts", and then never ever ever be liable for sin again? Murder? Fornicate? Hate?

1) We are saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on the guilt of our sin by grace through the gift
(Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) of faith (Eph 2:8-9), in the rebirth (Jn 3:3) wherein
God gifts us with righteousness (Ro 5:17), by justifying us (declaring us "not guilty," in rightwise standing,
a right position with him) and adopting us as sons.

New birth cannot be undone and divine adopted sonship cannot be lost just as natural birth cannot be undone, nor can adopted sonship be lost in our legal system.

Yes, salvation is past (justification), present (sanctification) and future (glorification).

2) "Accept Christ into your heart" means to be born again (Jn 3:3).

The born-again believer does not have a license to sin.

 

[Bowhunter2394]

1) We are saved from the wrath of God (Ro 5:9) on the guilt of our sin by grace through the gift
(Php 1:29; 2Pe 1:1; Ac 18:27; Ro 12:3) of faith (Eph 2:8-9), in the rebirth (Jn 3:3) wherein
God gifts us with righteousness (Ro 5:17), byjustifying us (declaring us "not guilty," in rightwise standing,
position with him) and adopting us as sons.

New birth cannot be undone and divine adopted sonship cannot be lost just as natural birth cannot be undone, nor can adopted sonship be lost in our legal system.

Yes, salvation is past (justification), present (sanctification) and future (glorification).

2) "Accept Christ into your heart" means to be born again (Jn 3:3).

The born-again believer is not free from sin this side of glory.

Yep!

For the Gifts and Calling of God are without Repentance! indeed!

 

[mattp0625]

Brother Jackson

I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I would not rely on scapular alone, just like not scripture alone, or faith alone.

 

[valiant]

Friend, please point to the words "only", "alone", or "authority" below:

[SUP]16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

I must assume all Roman Catholics are incapable of understanding anything unless it was written exactly as they required. The word 'alone' is not needed. Why do you not be honest and post all three verses which I pointed out to you? Answer. Because you know it destroys your case.

If the Scriptures can make us wise unto salvation, if they are inspired of God, if they are profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be COMPLETE (totally what God wants him to be), completely furnished for EVERY good work, then they are all we need. (2 Tim 3.15-17)

Now compare your alternative, relying on a church stained with blood, sin, unfaithfulness, child molestation which was deliberately overlooked, dogma much of which come from its worst days, inventions of men unknown to Scripture and even contradictory to Scripture.

I think I know which I will choose. You don't make sterilised water cleaner by filling up from a tub of rainwater, much less from washing up water after washing up. I want what is pure and clean. Not ideas from a church noted for its deceit, forgeries and lies.

 

[Elin]

#19 Faith Alone. Faith, obviously a condition but Faith without works is dead James 2:14-26......just read all of James, the brother of Jesus.

We are saved by grace alone (not by works) through faith (Eph 2:8-9).

If it is by works, then it is not by grace.

However, those saved by grace alone do walk in the obedience of their saving faith.
No obedience means there was no saving faith, but only counterfeit faith to begin with, which does not save.

 

[Elin]

Its no wonder that Martin Luther tried to get the book of James thrown out completely. So basically Sola Scriptura right? Bible alone! We need nothing else but the Bible and our mind.....except this part of the Bible.

You misunderstand the meaning of Sola Scriptura. . .or you are setting up a straw man to knock down.

 

[mattp0625]

I must assume all Roman Catholics are incapable of understanding anything unless it was written exactly as they required. The word 'alone' is not needed. Why do you not be honest and post all three verses which I pointed out to you? Answer. Because you know it destroys your case.

If the Scriptures can make us wise unto salvation, if they are inspired of God, if they are profitable for doctrine, reproof, correction and instruction in righteousness so that the man of God may be COMPLETE (totally what God wants him to be), completely furnished for EVERY good work, then they are all we need. (2 Tim 3.15-17)

Now compare your alternative, relying on a church stained with blood, sin, unfaithfulness, child molestation which was deliberately overlooked, dogma much of which come from its worst days, inventions of men unknown to Scripture and even contradictory to Scripture.

I think I know which I will choose. You don't make sterilised water cleaner by filling up from a tub of rainwater, much less from washing up water after washing up. I want what is pure and clean. Not ideas from a church noted for its deceit, forgeries and lies.

I don't see anything there about love, forgiveness, or not saying "thou fool".

There were school teachers who have had inappropriate relationships with underage students. Will you also forbid children to attend school? I am guessing not as it doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[valiant]

Brother Jackson

I don't put all my eggs in one basket. I would not rely on scapular alone, just like not scripture alone, or faith alone.

If all the other baskets have holes in them you are very unwise.

 

[Elin]

My opinion: As a originally raised Catholic but now I consider myself Christian. I know many people including my grandma who are very devoted Catholics and I know the flaws in the religion but she was the person who taught me about God and the bible as a child. She even has a celebration day for Joseph which is knows across town (big deal in her town) and although this might be wrong to some at the end of the day she is devoted to God and his laws. I can't help but believe that her faith is not wrong at all she is a beautiful soul (80plus year old) and nothing will ever change her Catholic belief.

What matters is conversion of the heart.

 

[mattp0625]

If all the other baskets have holes in them you are very unwise.

Ah, there are holes in love and forgiveness? You can't find love in faith alone or scripture alone.

One can know scripture to the tee, have absolute faith, yet be without love and forgiveness.

 

[valiant]

I don't see anything there about love, forgiveness, or not saying "thou fool".
.

What a surprise when I am talking about the inspiration and sufficiency of Scripture. Are you referring to the love your clergy had for the children they molested? And the forgiveness your church gave them as they continued in their activities? Or the fact that Jesus said that those who hold the view you hold in changing Scripture by your tradition are 'blind fools'?

There were school teachers who have had inappropriate relationships with underage students. Will you also forbid children to attend school? I am guessing not

I don't see the comparison. School teachers are not claiming to be healers of souls, and no one covered up for them. Your corrupt clergymen were claiming to be healers of souls, and the church encouraged them in their sin.

 

[mattp0625]

Teachers claim to teach and mentor children, friend. But, that doesn't fit your narrative.

 

[Elin]

Certainly there are many doctrinal disagreements; however,
there is also uniform agreement and homogeneity on the essentials themselves.

That is simply not true, the difference are massive , profound and across every aspect of Christianity, because everyone post reformation makes their " own" designer version if the ones on offer do not conform to themselves.

These are the essentials on which orthodox Christians agree:

1) inspiration of Scripture
2) deity of Christ
3) Christs' virgin birth and miracles
4) penal death for our sins
5) Christ's physical resurrection and return