Catholic Heresy (for the record)

[mattp0625]

Jackson

Blue letters or red letter or bold letters still won't help your cause.

No one claims scapulars are in the Bible. They are a holy tradition based on the miracles of a Carmelite monk.

We just claim Scripture Alone or Faith Alone are not in the bible, since the relevant verses never indicate "alone", "only", or the like.

2 Thessalonians chapters 2 and 3 discusses the use of 'traditions", both "word" and "epistle" (oral and written), if you wanted to look.

Jackson, next ask yourself how you know the marriage liturgy is OK. Or, how did you accept that Mark wrote the book of Mark? You don't know that from the bible. How do you know, then? By word of mouth and history.

Now please, the pictures are nice to look at but not helping anyone.

 

[Jeff_56]

all men are liars.

some are redeemed.(few. not many).

all rcc is lies. all rcc is heresy. (so no, on this and any assembly of true believers also, it is not uncalled for to tell the truth about the rcc; there is nothing unevil about the rcc, nothing good proceeds from it, no one is saved by it, and after being warned once or twice, we're not supposed to converse with them(those who continue in sin) if they(individuals) don't repent. they're supposed to be put out away from the assembly of ekklesia.

this might apply to other groups also, not just rcc. the focus/ point/ topic of this thread is rcc though, and that it IS HERESY (rcc cannot repent; but some people/ souls may be saved from it if THEY(individuals) repent and turn to GOD in JESUS to be helped even, instead of rejecting HIM and HIS WORD).

of course they continually deny the truth. this is absolutely and naturally expected, though without sense.
the heresy of the rcc has deceived most of the world, just as IT IS WRITTEN in GOD'S WORD.

 

[valiant]

As far as I am aware valiant, you have not even offered a shred of evidence for sola scriptura, so using the word "lies" is un called for.

can't you help lying? or do you simply not read what is inconvenient to you? I have offered evidence as anyone who looks back can see, so that underlines the fact that you are simply wholly deceitful.

Sola scriptura is biblically, logically and historically false , there is nothing more to be said on it!

Are you BID DADDY operating under a pseudonym? Is this a papal ex cathedra statement? Or are you just showing your ignorance once again?

Nothing could be more logically false than to accept the authority of a church which has probably shed more blood in fulfilling its aspirations than any other organisation. It make Hitler pale into insignificance (indeed it never tried to prevent Hitler's actions and its Pope made peace with Hitler. To him preserving the Roman Catholic church was more important than morality).

Biblically false: Nowhere in the bible does it say "all truth (or necessary truth - reformationists cannot agree what it means even) is contained in the bible" Nowhere in the bible does it say it has to be in the bible! So it is biblically false.
Sure in vairous places it says "scripture is valuable" - but nowhere does it say all truth is in scripture.

Well as Paul recommended going to Scripture to be made 'wise unto salvation' and then stressed that it could make Christians 'complete, completely furnished to every good work' (2 Tim 3.15-17) you are again shown to be wrong. It contains everything that we need for salvation. If you keep walking around with your eyes closed you are going to have a nasty accident.

Logically false: Simple logic this. If you regard sola scriptura as a necessary truth, which you must since you base your faith on it, then because it is a necessary truth, it would have to be in scripture, otherwise you believe in a logical contradiction,since the most important item of truth in your eyes is missing!

But as I have shown it is in Scripture. In Jesus day all whom He preached to accepted the authority of Scripture, and when they tried to add tradition to it Jesus condemned them, and said ' you make THE WORD OF GOD void through your tradition.'
So logically the Roman Catholic church is in the wrong.

Historically false: For the first christians the faith was handed on by apostles, jesus gave us apostles not a book!

I wonder then who wrote the New Testament? Ah, I have it. IT WAS THE APOSTLES. Jesus ass ured His Apostles that He would lead them into all truth precisely so that they would write the New Testament.

So when Paul says "hold fast to tradition given to you by word of mouth and letter", and nowhere in that does he say gospels, for the reason they were not written yet! To jesus and Paul scripture meant old testament, because the new was not written for the early christians.

Well Paul's letter had already been put in writing and been accredited as Scripture (2 Pet 3.16). And the 'word of mouth' was the word of the Apostles which they then put into writing. So you have confirmed the validity of Scripture. Thank you..

It is also roundly contradicted. The "pillar and foundation of truth is the church".

But the unity of that church was found in the Apostles. It was the church as following the teaching of the Apostles and containing Apostolic men who were the pillar and foundation of the truth. Not some spurious, political, blood-covered, heretical Roman Catholic church founded after 700 AD.

We have that pillar and foundation in the Scriptures written by or under the supervision of the Apostles. There is nowhere else that we can find it.

If God had wanted to say "the pillar and foundation of truth is scripture" he would have done! or do you think God was not very good at saying what he meant?

Are you being deliberately stupid, or are you just trying?. You yourself said it had not been written yet. How then could God have said that? But what He did do was make clear that the source of all truth was the Apostles. And then He inspired the New Testament through those Apostles. Don't you think He expected us to use our intelligence?

Certainly He did not expect us to trust the church which has the bloodiest record in history.

Moreover , the last line of John says all of Jesus teachings and works could not fit in many books, let alone the one!

So? That teaching was soon lost apart from what was written in the other Gospels. We all know what happens to oral words passed on from generation to generation, they become wholly distorted. None of the early fathers appear to have known of unrecorded teaching of Jesus.

So do not use the word"lies" in respect of truth , indeed because it is uncivilized behaviour so do not use the word at all.

But You are a proven deceiver from a deceitful church, so what other word fits. LOL you think yourself civilised and support the bloodiest church in history?

 

[valiant]

Valiant, I'm simply pointing out that the scriptures don't literally say "personal Lord and Savior". That's very bold of you to judge my salvation over the internet.

Folks, here is a great example of why Sola Scriptura is so flaky. Valiant cant even interpret my sentence above, you expect him to interpret the Sacred Scriptures.

I did not judge your salvation. I presented Scripture evidence. I merely pointed out that if you do not know Christ personally as your Saviour you are not saved. Being saved is a consequence of personally committing yourself to Jesus Christ to save you. Without that there is no salvation.

 

[Jackson123]

Jackson

Blue letters or red letter or bold letters still won't help your cause.

No one claims scapulars are in the Bible. They are a holy tradition based on the miracles of a Carmelite monk.

We just claim Scripture Alone or Faith Alone are not in the bible, since the relevant verses never indicate "alone", "only", or the like.

2 Thessalonians chapters 2 and 3 discusses the use of 'traditions", both "word" and "epistle" (oral and written), if you wanted to look.

Jackson, next ask yourself how you know the marriage liturgy is OK. Or, how did you accept that Mark wrote the book of Mark? You don't know that from the bible. How do you know, then? By word of mouth and history.

Now please, the pictures are nice to look at but not helping anyone.

Brother Matt,

As long as not oppose the bible, it is OK.

For example Go to church wear shoes. is not in the bible but it is not oppose the bible.


wear scapular guaranty to heaven is oppose the bible and not inline with the bible.

Faith in Jesus can't be replace with anything else.

How physically dead people allow to communicated to living person and issue a law about heaven and hell.

Only God has the right issue the law about heaven and hell.

It is just business, want to make money by selling scapular.

another example:



[TABLE="width: 760"]
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[TD="width: 629"]Last Updated: Thursday, 6 December 2007, 16:44 GMT

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E-mail this to a friend[/TD]
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Printable version[/TD]
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[TD="colspan: 3"]Pope approves Lourdes indulgences

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Pope Benedict XVI places great importance on indulgences
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Pope Benedict XVI has authorised special indulgences to mark the 150th anniversary of the Virgin Mary's reputed appearance at Lourdes.Catholics visiting the site within a year of 8 December will be able to receive an indulgence, which the Church teaches can reduce time in purgatory.
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[mattp0625]

If it can make us wise unto salvation (2 Tim 3.15) and is able to make us complete, completely equipped to every good work' (2 Tim 3.17) how is it not all we need? You simply will not accept it because BIG DADDY tells you not to. The whole Bible agrees with us. Even Jesus emphasised the authority of the Scriptures and enabled His Apostles to complete the Scriptures by 'leading them into all truth'.

Not so, sir. You need, faith, works, Word, love, forgiveness, traditions, sacraments. Using one verse about scripture and ignoring the rest of the bible is not profitable.

James 2:
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.


Matthew 22:
[SUP]36 [/SUP]Master, which is the great commandment in the law?
[SUP]37 [/SUP]Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind.
[SUP]38 [/SUP]This is the first and great commandment.
[SUP]39 [/SUP]And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself.

John 13:

[SUP]34 [/SUP]A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another; as I have loved you, that ye also love one another.
[SUP]35 [/SUP]By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another.

Romans 1:
Therefore being justified by faith, we have peace with God through our Lord Jesus Christ

2 Thessalonians 2:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]Therefore, brethren, stand fast, and hold the traditions which ye have been taught, whether by word, or our epistle.



Matthew 5:

Blessed are the meek: for they shall inherit the earth
[SUP]3 [/SUP]Blessed are the poor in spirit: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Matthew 6:
[SUP]14 [/SUP]For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you:
[SUP]15 [/SUP]But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses.


That's quite bit more than faith alone or scripture alone.

 

[mattp0625]

Brother Jackson - an indulgence is a reduction of temporal punishment, not an exemption from sin nor a free pass for your eternal soul.

It usually includes performance of prayer, alms giving (e.g. to the poor), mass attendance, adoration, and receiving sacraments including confession and Eucharist.

 

[mikeuk]

None of which offers any evidence to the contrary, indeed none is possible , since sola scriptura is logically false. That is not a religious statement, all you need is logic to defeat it.

However , since abuse your only strongsuit, which rather proves you have nothing else to say.


Indeed you seem to want to correct God, and get him to write the scripture "properly" and correct his "mistakes" because it does not say what you want it to! He was crystal clear. Hold true to tradition - which is the passing of meaning not just text. God stated "The pillar of truth is the church". He did NOT say "the pillar of truth is scripture".

Scripture is stated as valuable. It is not stated as the only truth, indeed faith was passed by tradition. That much is historic fact.

The early church was liturgical, sacramental, appointed bishops in succession, believed in real presence and so on. Made final the canon of scripture you use as the new testament, and even Luther Credits RCC for that, so your history dates are off!

Little has changed in RCC doctrine in the two millenia which is the mark of the true church, since doctrine does not change, and none of the other denominations can claim any lineage or even constancy. Most change with the winds of populism..

The endless fracturing on doctrine is all protestant born of "valiants" who think they can reinterpret history and scripture. They cannot.

can't you help lying? or do you simply not read what is inconvenient to you? I have offered evidence as anyone who looks back can see, so that underlines the fact that you are simply wholly deceitful.



Are you BID DADDY operating under a pseudonym? Is this a papal ex cathedra statement? Or are you just showing your ignorance once again?

Nothing could be more logically false than to accept the authority of a church which has probably shed more blood in fulfilling its aspirations than any other organisation. It make Hitler pale into insignificance (indeed it never tried to prevent Hitler's actions and its Pope made peace with Hitler. To him preserving the Roman Catholic church was more important than morality).



Well as Paul recommended going to Scripture to be made 'wise unto salvation' and then stressed that it could make Christians 'complete, completely furnished to every good work' (2 Tim 3.15-17) you are again shown to be wrong. It contains everything that we need for salvation. If you keep walking around with your eyes closed you are going to have a nasty accident.



But as I have shown it is in Scripture. In Jesus day all whom He preached to accepted the authority of Scripture, and when they tried to add tradition to it Jesus condemned them, and said ' you make THE WORD OF GOD void through your tradition.'
So logically the Roman Catholic church is in the wrong.



I wonder then who wrote the New Testament? Ah, I have it. IT WAS THE APOSTLES. Jesus ass ured His Apostles that He would lead them into all truth precisely so that they would write the New Testament.



Well Paul's letter had already been put in writing and been accredited as Scripture (2 Pet 3.16). And the 'word of mouth' was the word of the Apostles which they then put into writing. So you have confirmed the validity of Scripture. Thank you..



But the unity of that church was found in the Apostles. It was the church as following the teaching of the Apostles and containing Apostolic men who were the pillar and foundation of the truth. Not some spurious, political, blood-covered, heretical Roman Catholic church founded after 700 AD.

We have that pillar and foundation in the Scriptures written by or under the supervision of the Apostles. There is nowhere else that we can find it.



Are you being deliberately stupid, or are you just trying?. You yourself said it had not been written yet. How then could God have said that? But what He did do was make clear that the source of all truth was the Apostles. And then He inspired the New Testament through those Apostles. Don't you think He expected us to use our intelligence?

Certainly He did not expect us to trust the church which has the bloodiest record in history.




So? That teaching was soon lost apart from what was written in the other Gospels. We all know what happens to oral words passed on from generation to generation, they become wholly distorted. None of the early fathers appear to have known of unrecorded teaching of Jesus.



But You are a proven deceiver from a deceitful church, so what other word fits. LOL you think yourself civilised and support the bloodiest church in history?

 

[notuptome]

Sir, below is 2 Tim 3:
[SUP]
16 [/SUP]All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Sir, kindly show point to the words "only" or "alone" in this verse, as the "only" way to be profitable.



Then, sir, please reconcile "scripture alone" or "faith alone" with the rest of the bible, such as James 2 (below):

What doth it profit, my brethren, though a man say he hath faith, and have not works? can faith save him?[SUP]15 [/SUP]If a brother or sister be naked, and destitute of daily food,
[SUP]16 [/SUP]And one of you say unto them, Depart in peace, be ye warmed and filled; notwithstanding ye give them not those things which are needful to the body; what doth it profit?
[SUP]17 [/SUP]Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone

One cannot reconcile inane arguments made by unbelievers. Scripture is not alone nor is faith alone nor is grace alone. All work together to fulfill the determinate will of Almighty God. The bible remains alone in that it is they only book that is God breathed. The bible is the only book where one can read and receive faith. Through the bible one is made aware of their need to be saved and of Gods gift of saving grace. This is accomplished by Gods Holy Spirit ministering in the darkened hearts of men. God reaches down to sinful men they do not reach up to God.

The faith that God creates in a believers heart works. If a man claim to believe and not demonstrate a changed life then one must question if his conversion was real or just an accommodation to fool others.

For the cause of Christ
Roger

 

[mattp0625]

Brother Jackson,

Just so you know - money is not required for scapular enrollment.

I would donate since I believe in tithing, but it's not required.


Also, I attended Divine Mercy Sunday, where indulgences are available (reduction of temporal punishment, not forgiveness of sin). A cardinal (and archbishop) said mass. Cost to me for the whole day? Zero.

 

[Jeff_56]

your soul. "zero?".

they have marketed your soul, killing it, and so far, they've won, you've lost.

.... Cost to me for the whole day? Zero.

 

[valiant]

Brother Jackson,

Just so you know - money is not required for scapular enrollment.

I would donate since I believe in tithing, but it's not required.


Also, I attended Divine Mercy Sunday, where indulgences are available (reduction of temporal punishment, not forgiveness of sin). A cardinal (and archbishop) said mass. Cost to me for the whole day? Zero.

Genuine Benefit? Also zero.

 

[valiant]

None of which offers any evidence to the contrary, indeed none is possible , since sola scriptura is logically false. That is not a religious statement, all you need is logic to defeat it.

However , since abuse your only strongsuit, which rather proves you have nothing else to say.


Indeed you seem to want to correct God, and get him to write the scripture "properly" and correct his "mistakes" because it does not say what you want it to! He was crystal clear. Hold true to tradition - which is the passing of meaning not just text. God stated "The pillar of truth is the church". He did NOT say "the pillar of truth is scripture".

Scripture is stated as valuable. It is not stated as the only truth, indeed faith was passed by tradition. That much is historic fact.

The early church was liturgical, sacramental, appointed bishops in succession, believed in real presence and so on. Made final the canon of scripture you use as the new testament, and even Luther Credits RCC for that, so your history dates are off!

Little has changed in RCC doctrine in the two millenia which is the mark of the true church, since doctrine does not change, and none of the other denominations can claim any lineage or even constancy. Most change with the winds of populism..

The endless fracturing on doctrine is all protestant born of "valiants" who think they can reinterpret history and scripture. They cannot.

Do you always talk such rubbish and lies? Or do you only do it on here.?

 

[valiant]

Little has changed in RCC doctrine in the two millenia which is the mark of the true church, since doctrine does not change, and none of the other denominations can claim any lineage or even constancy. Most change with the winds of populism..

Ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha, ha the best laugh I've had in years.

growth of RC doctrine (some dates are approximate)

1 . Prayers for the dead . …………-------------------……300 A.D.
2. Making the sign of the cross ………………………… …300 A.D.
3. Veneration of angels & dead saints …………---------…….375 A.D.
4. Use of images in worship………………………………… . 375 A.D.
5. The Mass as a daily celebration……………………………… 394 A.D.
6 Beginning of the exaltation of Mary; the term, "Mother of God" applied a Council of Ephesus……………. .----------------------------------------- 431 A.D.
7 Extreme Unction (Last Rites)……………………………… ..526 A.D.
8. Doctrine of Purgatory-Gregory 1…………………………… .593 A.D..
9. Prayers to Mary & dead saints ……………………………… .600 A.D.
10. Worship of cross, images & relics ……………………… … 786 A.D.
11 Canonization of dead saints ………………………………… ..995 A.D.
12. Celibacy of priesthood …………………………………… …1079 A.D.
13. The Rosary ……………………………………………… … 1090 A.D.
14. Indulgences ……………………………………………… …..1190 A.D.
15. Transubstantiation-Innocent III …………………………… 1215 A.D.
16. Auricular Confession of sins to a priest …………………… 1215 A.D.
17. Adoration of the wafer (Host)…………………………… .. 1220 A.D.
18. Cup forbidden to the people at communion …………………..1414 A.D.
19. Purgatory proclaimed as a dogma……………………………..1439 A.D.
20. The doctrine of the Seven Sacraments confirmed …………….1439 A.D.
21 Tradition declared of equal authority with Bible by Council of Trent…………………………………………----------------… 1545 A.D.
22. Apocryphal books added to Bible ………------------……….1546 A.D.
23. Immaculate Conception of Mary……………………………….1854 A.D.
24, Infallibility of the pope in matters of faith and morals,proclaimed by the Vatican Council ……………… 1870 A.D.
25. Assumption of the Virgin Mary (bodily ascension into heaven shortly after her death) ……………………………-----------------------------------……1950 A.D.
26. Mary proclaimed Mother of the Church……………………… 1965 A.D..

 

[mattp0625]

Genuine Benefit? Also zero.

That's fine, sir, I'll take it.

Number of times "faith alone" or "scripture alone" are in the bible? Also zero.

 

[Jackson123]

Brother Jackson,

Just so you know - money is not required for scapular enrollment.

I would donate since I believe in tithing, but it's not required.


Also, I attended Divine Mercy Sunday, where indulgences are available (reduction of temporal punishment, not forgiveness of sin). A cardinal (and archbishop) said mass. Cost to me for the whole day? Zero.

They sale here for $8.95

https://www.catholiccompany.com/brown-scapular-adult-i15397/

Not only that. The biggest problem is

how

1. how in the world Mary has the right to issue such law.

That kind of law only God has the right to issue.

2. How Mary able to come to a living person and give such promise?

 

[valiant]

That's fine, sir, I'll take it.

Number of times "faith alone" or "scripture alone" are in the bible? Also zero.

If you admitted you were blind you would have no sin, but because you say 'we see' therefore your sin remains.

 

[Jackson123]

Brother Jackson - an indulgence is a reduction of temporal punishment, not an exemption from sin nor a free pass for your eternal soul.

It usually includes performance of prayer, alms giving (e.g. to the poor), mass attendance, adoration, and receiving sacraments including confession and Eucharist.

The problem is, brother, If you read the entire article, Pope issue a law for catholic who visit to Lourdes during the 150 anniversary and a year after, will get indulgence.

Seem to me to promote and attract more tourism industry there.

 

[mattp0625]

They sale here for $8.95

https://www.catholiccompany.com/brown-scapular-adult-i15397/

Not only that. The biggest problem is

how





1. how in the world Mary has the right to issue such law.

That kind of law only God has the right to issue.

2. How Mary able to come to a living person and give such promise?

Brother Jackson - you buy them from a manufacturer. Catholic company is a company, not a church. The enrollment costs nothing.

I suggest you read about the miracle of Simon Stock who was the Carmelite monk.

There are also conditions attached - you must recite certain prayers daily and remain chaste. You essentially become a member of the Carmelite Order of monks.

Not everyone believes in scapular enrollment, but I do.

 

[mattp0625]

Brother Jackson -

I am not certain I agree with your assertion that the Pope is making deals with the tourism industry in France or the Catholic Company distributor in USA.

It doesn't cost French citizens anything to attend a mass at Lourdes, just as it didn't cost me anything to attend the mass for Divine Mercy Sunday.