"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[kennethcadwell]

Jesus is not there anymore.
The cross is the fulcrum of the gospel,but never replaces the cornerstone,the resurrected savior.

Exactly Jesus is our cornerstone of our faith, and not the cross.
If one puts to much emphases on the cross itself they usually take away or overlook the rest of His teachings..

 

[eternally-gratefull]

More twists and lies, come on now E.G...................

More lies?

Scripture says we love because God first loved us (God powers our love)

You claim a person can be saved, actually experience the true love of God. and come to a point they no longer love, even though God is still showering them with love, until the point their salvation is lost.

No lies. just truth,

If you believed it, then yuo would not teach our security is in self. and conditional. and not in God and eternal.

 

[Elin]

Jesus is not there anymore.
The cross is the fulcrum of the gospel,but never replaces the cornerstone,the resurrected savior.

Jesus is the cornerstone of the church, the body of Christ, not of the gospel.

Don't know what a fulcrum of the gospel is.

And though he's not on earth anymore, his being in heaven doesn't mitigate his being on earth.

 

[MarcR]

Well I do not know where you are going with this, as it seems we are going around in circles because I already explained how Psalm 22 was both a picture of the crucifixion and showing a sign of sympathy on how we ourselves deal in hard/bad situations. As David showed in this Psalm, where he said why are you so far from helping me and then later in verses 19-21 He is pleading for help, deliverance, and to be saved. Which is the same thing people do in our real life bad situations, on questioning how He could have abandoned us as shown in verse 1. Then continuing to plead for help to bring us out of these situations. This plays right with what was said in Hebrews 4 and how He sympathizes with us......

Ken,

why are you so far from helping me is a continuation of "My God, My God, Why have thou forsaken me?". Jesus understood why the Father could NOT look upon the SIN Jesus was taking upon Himself. The question is rhetorical looking to explain the (then future) event of the crucifixion in terms that would be understood in retrospect.

The primary intent of Ps 22 and Is 53 is to show that the crucifixion, when it happened, would be part of God's plan of redemption. God not only anticipated the crucifixion; but he anticipated the misunderstanding which led to expectation of a conquering king.

If you want to view the verse as a sign of sympathy on how we ourselves deal in hard/bad situations; I see no harm in that as long as you recognize that that is NOT the Psalm's primary concern.

 

[resurrection33]

"When Jesus therefore had received the vinegar, he said, It is finished: and he bowed his head, and gave up the ghost." -John 19:30

My hubby and I were discussing this Scripture last night, and we are in agreement (although we come to it in different ways) that the "it" is the debt that Jesus paid for us all -- the fulfillment of the Law.

So what say you? How would you describe the "it?"

I guess your question causes me to stop and wonder what exactly Jesus was trying to accomplish while on earth.

Yes, Jesus paid the debt for us all. It was necessary for him, I believe, to live a sinless life and then be crucified, in order to accomplish that. This deed allowed him to save us from Satan, who otherwise could torment us forever because of our sin.

Jesus also taught us how to live our lives so that we could have eternal peace, security, and happiness.

 

[popeye]

Exactly Jesus is our cornerstone of our faith, and not the cross.
If one puts to much emphases on the cross itself they usually take away or overlook the rest of His teachings..

Could be.
But our Job is bring them jesus,the real and living jesus.

And we tell them "This jesus died for you,he gave his life for you..He lives and he lives in me would you like him to live in you?"

If we only have a cross,then we produce disciples of a stick.

 

[Elin]

2 of the 3 passover lambs were offered

"ze nigmar" was cried out by the priest at the same time Jesus cried it out.

But only one was propitiation in heaven. . .and it wasn't the one up at the Temple.

So it wasn't a parallel, but a replacement.

 

[popeye]

Jesus is the cornerstone of the church, the body of Christ, not of the gospel.

Don't know what a fulcrum of the gospel is.

And though he's not on earth anymore, his being in heaven doesn't mitigate his being on earth.

Good news(the gospel) is a living savior. Jesus. jesus is good news.

"I have a gospel to give you!" .........hands them a wooden stick........ "Imagine a bloody dead man on it!!!"

Don't know what a fulcrum of the gospel is.

You do not think the cross was a pivital point? (fulcrum)

 

[popeye]

But only one was propitiation in heaven. . .and it wasn't the one up at the Temple.

So it wasn't a parallel, but a replacement.

3 sacrifices on mt calvary.
3 passover lambs were offered in the temple.

In escapable but hey you can slice it however you want. I am just a reporter,not an explainer.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

To me, "it" is: The way.

The way was now made for any who believe "it" to live in the Spirit and with the assured hope of eternal life in God's kingdom.

"It (the way) is finished."

well said, Gods plan from eternity past was finished.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

When I read Psa 22, I see a picture of the crucifixion; NOT peoples response to adversity!

I do not know where Ken gets that stuff. I have met some odd people since i came in here who have Odd Ideas of how things really are.

 

[Elin]

Good news(the gospel) is a living savior. Jesus. jesus is good news.

"I have a gospel to give you!" .........hands them a wooden stick........ "Imagine a bloody dead man on it!!!"

Where do you get the notion that in Christianity "the cross" refers simply to a wooden stick, rather than to the sacrifice of Christ?

You do not think the cross was a pivital point? (fulcrum)

The cross--Jesus saves by his death--is the gospel, not just the gospel's pivotal point.

How does a proclamation have a pivotal point?

 

[Elin]

3 sacrifices on mt calvary.
3 passover lambs were offered in the temple.

In escapable but hey you can slice it however you want. I am just a reporter,not an explainer.

I'll explain it. . .

In all those sacrifices, only one accomplished redemption of the people of God.

The "parallels" were powerless.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

How can a straight Q abt your beliefs be a trap? Anyways, you do believe that Jesus was born again when He was "restored" in His relation to the Father and you do believe that He died spiritually before that (yet He did not become a sinner - however you can make those beliefs reconcile or work together) just like Adam died. I'd say your pretty JDS teaching as per their school book. Just that some of them believes that Jesus suffered for a time in hell and some even say that He got born again there. Wow. How people can believe in any of the above is beyond me. But, hey, it's big wide world...

Forgive me if I am not single minded.

Jesus did not have to sin like adam in order to be separated by God because of his own personal sin. All he had to do is take my sin on his body to suffer that separation.

The separation is proved by the fact. He screamed when God turned his back on him (and the HS left him) My God My God, why have you departed from me

It might not mean much to you. then again, you follow calvins fatilistic view of God and salvation. But to those of us who understand out sin and separation due to that sin, If gives us hope that what he did was real. and That God did punish him for our sin. This hope grows our faith, and continues to allow us to believe in his name.

 

[popeye]

Where do you get the notion that in Christianity "the cross" refers simply to a wooden stick, rather than to the sacrifice of Christ?


The cross--Jesus saves by his death--is the gospel, not just the gospel's pivotal point.

How does a proclamation have a pivotal point?

1 cor 2;2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.

See that? Jesus 1st,the crucifixion 2nd

 

[popeye]

I'll explain it. . .

In all those sacrifices, only one accomplished redemption of the people of God.

The "parallels" were powerless.

I never alluded to any"power",only the fact they were there.
You saying God planned out the passover date for jesus' crucifixion as an error,or as a coincidence?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Whatever way you want to state it. If you believe that Jesus was born again at any time (not to be confused with Him being "the firstborn from the dead") just as sinners need to be born again, wouldn't you say that you get into some serious scripture collisions? Mildly put.

Nah.

If the penalty of sin is spiritual death.

Then Jesus must suffer that penalty. or he did not pay the penalty of sin.

If the penalty of sin was physical death, we have issues, For every one who dies physically would then be saved, because they paid for their own sin.

You pray you did not make Jason right when he said OSAS preaches the penalty of sin was physical death. for that would be sad. Just saying.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken,

why are you so far from helping me is a continuation of "My God, My God, Why have thou forsaken me?". Jesus understood why the Father could NOT look upon the SIN Jesus was taking upon Himself. The question is rhetorical looking to explain the (then future) event of the crucifixion in terms that would be understood in retrospect.

The primary intent of Ps 22 and Is 53 is to show that the crucifixion, when it happened, would be part of God's plan of redemption. God not only anticipated the crucifixion; but he anticipated the misunderstanding which led to expectation of a conquering king.

If you want to view the verse as a sign of sympathy on how we ourselves deal in hard/bad situations; I see no harm in that as long as you recognize that that is NOT the Psalm's primary concern.

Around and around we go though as I never said it wasn't a picture of the crucifixion.
I said it was a picture of the crucifixion, or better yet a prophecy about it. Just because I mention the other aspect of it does not take away from the crucifixion, as I am giving the full message that is mentioned in it.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

That is because on how some are thought what the it is finished means.
Some are taught that His earthly ministry to usher in the new covenant under grace by receiving remission of our sins through Him by His one time perfect sacrifice.

Which would make Jesus words "it is finished" have meaning.

And others are taught everything is fulfilled, and there is nothing more anybody has to do.
Yet His crucifixion did not do away with the need to repent, be baptized/born again, keep ones confession in Him, to forgive others, and to walk in love. For there is actually a doctrine being taught that His crucifixion did away with all that He taught in the gospel books and we do not have to follow those teachings. They have His crucifixion do away with the great commission.

Which makes the words, "It is finished" Have absolutely no meaning whatsoever. Jesus would have had to say, It is finished, I did my part. now you do your part. Which he did not. Unless he did in those extra bibical books and writings you like to follow?

 

[popeye]

It just now hit me.
All you guys think that the passover (the one in egypt) has nothing to do with Jesus.

Now I can see the dna of the logic here on this thread.