"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[eternally-gratefull]

Kenneth believes Jesus only died at Calvary for the sin you commited before you got saved. To be fair to him, that is the majority view of those who go to church-unfortunately

The children of babylon are far and wide.

Many may have broken away from her in the reformation, as a child leaves a parent. but sadly, some still have their mothers characteristics

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Ken,

why are you so far from helping me is a continuation of "My God, My God, Why have thou forsaken me?". Jesus understood why the Father could NOT look upon the SIN Jesus was taking upon Himself. The question is rhetorical looking to explain the (then future) event of the crucifixion in terms that would be understood in retrospect.

The primary intent of Ps 22 and Is 53 is to show that the crucifixion, when it happened, would be part of God's plan of redemption. God not only anticipated the crucifixion; but he anticipated the misunderstanding which led to expectation of a conquering king.

If you want to view the verse as a sign of sympathy on how we ourselves deal in hard/bad situations; I see no harm in that as long as you recognize that that is NOT the Psalm's primary concern.

amen, like I said earlier it is not rocket science.

Jesus asked God why he departed.

We know God departed and left Christ alone because Jesus asked why God was so far away from him.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

PASSOVER


GET IT?

Yeah.

Jesus fulfilled the passover on the cross.

As he said in John 6. we must feed on him before we can be set free and have eternal life.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The children of babylon are far and wide.

Many may have broken away from her in the reformation, as a child leaves a parent. but sadly, some still have their mothers characteristics

Dumah, Seir, Tema, and Kedar


Since you are so set on the Vatican being Mystery Babylon, tell me which of these places are in Italy ???

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Penalty and consequence are not the same thing.

The consequence of sin is both spiritual and physical death.

The penalty is the price exacted by the justice of God for its removal (forgiveness).

Jesus did not suffer the consequences of sin because he never sinned.

However, he did suffer the penalty of sin in the place of God's people.

Your right.

A consequence of sin is physical death, Sickness Disease. Pain and suffering etc etc.

Jesus did not have to pay the consquence of sin for redemption.

he had to pay the penalty of sin for redemption.

The penalty of sin is death (spiritual)

the consequences of sin will not be removed until we reach eternity. thats why we still suffer consequences of sin even if we are born again

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Well lets see He said for us to repent or perish.......Luke 13:3

He said be baptized/born again.....Matthew 28:19, Mark 16:16, and John 3:7

He said to obey all that He taught.......Matthew 28:20

He said confess Him and He will confess you, deny Him and He will deny you........Matthew 10:32-33, Matthew 25:45

He said forgive others and He will forgive you, but if do not forgive He will not forgive you...........Matthew 6:14-15


So I think your understanding that we do not have to do anything to receive His remission for our sins and get eternal life is a little misplaced. As one who believes in Him will obey the rest of these to be under grace.......

If I have to do something, then I have to EARN salvation. (works) and the cross is meaningless

Keep preaching your works and deny it, You deny Christ every time you do so.

 

[kennethcadwell]

If I have to do something, then I have to EARN salvation. (works) and the cross is meaningless

Keep preaching your works and deny it, You deny Christ every time you do so.

I do not deny Jesus which is why I do not deny His teachings on how one gets born again and receives that remission of sins. He did not say He repented for you, it says you have to repent of your sins to receive His remission.
Upholding His teachings is not denying Him, it is confirming what He taught !!!

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Dumah, Seir, Tema, and Kedar


Since you are so set on the Vatican being Mystery Babylon, tell me which of these places are in Italy ???

lol..

And the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city of sanctuary.

this same prince will agree to a covenant for 7 years

this same prince will break that covenant in the middle of those 7 years and blaspheme God.

this same prince will be destroyed by the coming of Christ.

So tell me. when did saudi arabia, turkey or any other middle eastern nation destroy Israel in AD 70?

There was no Islam in Johns day, But babylon was alive and well. And it became the roman church, you are one of her daughters, so I can understand why you do not wish to believe this.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I do not deny Jesus which is why I do not deny His teachings on how one gets born again and receives that remission of sins. He did not say He repented for you, it says you have to repent of your sins to receive His remission.
Upholding His teachings is not denying Him, it is confirming what He taught !!!

Yes you do.

You replace his works with your works.

Thus you deny him.

He said it is finished, You claim he lied.

thus you deny him

 

[p_rehbein]

"It is finished." What is the "it?"

The "it" is what is finished

 

[kennethcadwell]

lol..

And the people of the prince who is to come will destroy the city of sanctuary.

this same prince will agree to a covenant for 7 years

this same prince will break that covenant in the middle of those 7 years and blaspheme God.

this same prince will be destroyed by the coming of Christ.

So tell me. when did saudi arabia, turkey or any other middle eastern nation destroy Israel in AD 70?

There was no Islam in Johns day, But babylon was alive and well. And it became the roman church, you are one of her daughters, so I can understand why you do not wish to believe this.

Instead of answering my question you come back with giving descriptions for the beast system, and not Babylon.

You do realize the beast system of the man of sin and Babylon are two separate entities?
The system that the man of sin leads destroys Babylon, and those places I mentioned are associated with where Babylon is located. So where are those places at ???

Plus another note you do realize that Turkey is a country that was part of the Roman empire, as that is what the bible is referring to, part of the Roman empire mixed with another group. (Iron mixed with clay). Revelation shows this is where satan's seat/throne is at, and that the man of sin will be given this seat. So they all line up together, as you are to focused on the city of Rome and not the Roman empire that is what is actually being talked about.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Instead of answering my question you come back with giving descriptions for the beast system, and not Babylon.

You do realize the beast system of the man of sin and Babylon are two separate entities?
The system that the man of sin leads destroys Babylon, and those places I mentioned are associated with where Babylon is located. So where are those places at ???

Plus another note you do realize that Turkey is a country that was part of the Roman empire, as that is what the bible is referring to, part of the Roman empire mixed with another group. (Iron mixed with clay). Revelation shows this is where satan's seat/throne is at, and that the man of sin will be given this seat. So they all line up together, as you are to focused on the city of Rome and not the Roman empire that is what is actually being talked about.

No. those places are where babylon Got started. No one is denying that. It was started in babylon. When baylon was scatteredl, it spread to the world. Jesus spoke against it when he spoke against baal worship

The head of babylon moved after babylon fell. In jesus day its high priest was no other than ceasar, Who was in rome, which was also the center of the babylonian cult. That center is still in rome, although it now calls itself the vatican.

Try studying history. And see what babylon is bibically. and you might see.

Although, you might want to repent first and worry about eternal life before you worry about who babylon is.

 

[3Scoreand10]

So I think your understanding that we do not have to do anything to receive His remission for our sins and get eternal life is a little misplaced. As one who believes in Him will obey the rest of these to be under grace.......

Here is what I see that you do not understand.
You beleive WE must DO certian things to KEEP our salvation.
To me this belief is saying that salvation is in OUR hands not in God's hands.
It is saying we must DO, which is WORKS.
This is saying that God is not sufficient nor strong enough to KEEP us and we must HELP Him.

DOING is works.
WE is self, not God.
WE DOING is placeing us egual with God.

It is not about You/Me, It is about what JESUS DID and is DOING.

 

[popeye]

Yeah.

Jesus fulfilled the passover on the cross.

As he said in John 6. we must feed on him before we can be set free and have eternal life.

He fulfilled "it",by being "it"

There is depth not in the correct answer,but in understanding the anti type's purpose in God's pattern.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

He fulfilled "it",by being "it"

There is depth not in the correct answer,but in understanding the anti type's purpose in God's pattern.

lol. and you think I do not understand it?

He fulfilled all the types. not just one.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Here is what I see that you do not understand.
You beleive WE must DO certian things to KEEP our salvation.
To me this belief is saying that salvation is in OUR hands not in God's hands.
It is saying we must DO, which is WORKS.
This is saying that God is not sufficient nor strong enough to KEEP us and we must HELP Him.

DOING is works.
WE is self, not God.
WE DOING is placeing us egual with God.

It is not about You/Me, It is about what JESUS DID and is DOING.

Amen.

Anything not centered completely on God and his work is not of God.

The Gospel is about what God did and is doing. Not about we do or do not do. That is legalism, phariseeism, conditionalism, catholicism, and all the other isms that preach works.

 

[kennethcadwell]

No. those places are where babylon Got started. No one is denying that. It was started in babylon. When baylon was scatteredl, it spread to the world. Jesus spoke against it when he spoke against baal worship

The head of babylon moved after babylon fell. In jesus day its high priest was no other than ceasar, Who was in rome, which was also the center of the babylonian cult. That center is still in rome, although it now calls itself the vatican.

Try studying history. And see what babylon is bibically. and you might see.

Although, you might want to repent first and worry about eternal life before you worry about who babylon is.

Those places are not where Babylon got started as Babylon was never in those places in Saudi Arabia in the past.
Babylon of the past was in Iraq, and the Babylonian empire never consisted of Saudi Arabia in the past. The Babylonian empire consisted of Israel, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, small parts of Jordan and Turkey, and just a very small piece of northern Saudi Arabia.
Rome has never been part of Babylon either past or present, as those places I mentioned before are of western Saudi Arabia along the Red Sea, which is another place that the bible says Babylon sits. Rome does not sit by the Red Sea....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Those places are not where Babylon got started as Babylon was never in those places in Saudi Arabia in the past.
Babylon of the past was in Iraq, and the Babylonian empire never consisted of Saudi Arabia in the past. The Babylonian empire consisted of Israel, Syria, Iraq, Lebanon, small parts of Jordan and Turkey, and just a very small piece of northern Saudi Arabia.
Rome has never been part of Babylon either past or present, as those places I mentioned before are of western Saudi Arabia along the Red Sea, which is another place that the bible says Babylon sits. Rome does not sit by the Red Sea....

rolls eyes,

You do not even know what babylonialism is. You do not understand what it was the Israel played the harlot with (paganism)

so how can we expect you to know who the harlot is.

Islam (saudi arabia) looks NOTHING like the false Gods Israel kept commiting adultry with.

Paganism is a multi God, organism.

Islam is a uni God organism. which is really more resembles judaism than paganism.

Again, are you ever going to study? or keep listening to men?

 

[kennethcadwell]

Here is what I see that you do not understand.
You beleive WE must DO certian things to KEEP our salvation.
To me this belief is saying that salvation is in OUR hands not in God's hands.
It is saying we must DO, which is WORKS.
This is saying that God is not sufficient nor strong enough to KEEP us and we must HELP Him.

DOING is works.
WE is self, not God.
WE DOING is placeing us egual with God.

It is not about You/Me, It is about what JESUS DID and is DOING.

Yes you have to keep your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The bible clearly says those that fall away from believing in Him will not receive eternal life unless they are brought back to Him in repentance.....

So once again the false accusations that we have to do works to keep salvation is not what I teach, as I said before works/fruits of the Spirit go hand and hand with salvation. But if one draws back into unbelief as the bible says they will not receive eternal life........

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Yes you have to keep your faith in Jesus Christ as your Lord and Savior.
The bible clearly says those that fall away from believing in Him will not receive eternal life unless they are brought back to Him in repentance.....

So once again the false accusations that we have to do works to keep salvation is not what I teach, as I said before works/fruits of the Spirit go hand and hand with salvation. But if one draws back into unbelief as the bible says they will not receive eternal life........

Yet you just taught works.

You said we need to do something (work)

One day you may open your eyes and see the futility in your continued denying teaching works.