"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[tribesman]

tribesman,

Can anyone state "Christ was born again?" It is not stated that way in the Word so I don't think anyone would phrase it that way due to the uniqueness of this particular event, being that it (the Word) was an entity that had been with God from the beginning and that it (the Word in flesh) did not sin but willingly took on sin.

Whatever way you want to state it. If you believe that Jesus was born again at any time (not to be confused with Him being "the firstborn from the dead") just as sinners need to be born again, wouldn't you say that you get into some serious scripture collisions? Mildly put.

 

[BradC]

How can we make so much confusion of such a precious doctrine, 'the finished work', which is the foundation and cornerstone of our faith and gospel we preach. We should have unity in this and not present it as an obstacle. This is why we need to be taught and be entreatable because the Spirit we have been given is one of grace and truth.

 

[kennethcadwell]

How can we make so much confusion of such a precious doctrine, 'the finished work', which is the foundation and cornerstone of our faith and gospel we preach. We should have unity in this and not present it as an obstacle. This is why we need to be taught and be entreatable because the Spirit we have been given is one of grace and truth.

That is because on how some are thought what the it is finished means.
Some are taught that His earthly ministry to usher in the new covenant under grace by receiving remission of our sins through Him by His one time perfect sacrifice.
And others are taught everything is fulfilled, and there is nothing more anybody has to do.
Yet His crucifixion did not do away with the need to repent, be baptized/born again, keep ones confession in Him, to forgive others, and to walk in love. For there is actually a doctrine being taught that His crucifixion did away with all that He taught in the gospel books and we do not have to follow those teachings. They have His crucifixion do away with the great commission.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Your saying it is both does NOT make it so!

If you want to convince anyone, do a verse by verse analysis and show where you think you are getting that from.

Enough of us here read Hebrew to keep you accurate.

I did not say you didn't read Hebrews, but to say to keep me accurate is only by your understanding and what you have been taught. What you have been taught does not make it truth either, as Hebrews shows that He went through what He did in the flesh so that we know we have a High Priest who can sympathized what we go through. This does not take away that He died for our sins, just that He went through life in the flesh facing the same temptations and issues we do without sinning.

 

[forsha]

you need to check again, The word used is cosmos. The cosmos is the representation of satans domain.

He died for all people entrapped in satans domain.

So, then, you do not accept Thayer's interpretation? You just pick the interpretation that best fits your false belief. All of the scriptures must not contradict each other, or you do not have the truth. John 6:39 clearly states that Jesus died only for those that God gave him.

 

[tribesman]

...All of the scriptures must not contradict each other, or you do not have the truth...

Greetings, forsha. What do you think about the idea that "Jesus died spiritually" (JDS) or that He got "born again"? That's what some people believe here.

 

[MarcR]

I did not say you didn't read Hebrews, but to say to keep me accurate is only by your understanding and what you have been taught. What you have been taught does not make it truth either, as Hebrews shows that He went through what He did in the flesh so that we know we have a High Priest who can sympathized what we go through. This does not take away that He died for our sins, just that He went through life in the flesh facing the same temptations and issues we do without sinning.

Ken I said nothing about Hebrews! I said that if you do a verse by verse analysis of Psalm 22; enough of us read Hebrew (the language) to keep you accurate in your analysis.

 

[forsha]

no, WE are not in the equation. for WE can do nothing to be good enough to earn salvation. the law still condemns us.

Thanks, you just proved you preach works (we must) and not grace (we can't/dont deserve)

You reprimand others for believing eternal salvation buy works, when that's exactly what you believe that Christ died just to give you a chance and you have to accept (action of man - works) his offer.

 

[forsha]

By harmonising that God is a God of love, and died for everyone, and offers the same gift to all.

Otherwise, God is not a God of love, he picks and choses people to save, and people to reject. WHich is not love, but is something totally different.

Then explain Romans 9:21. All scriptures must harmonize to know the truth.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Ken I said nothing about Hebrews! I said that if you do a verse by verse analysis of Psalm 22; enough of us read Hebrew (the language) to keep you accurate in your analysis.

Well that is fine but it still does not take away from what David was saying in that Psalm, rather you want to use Hebrew or not. Because look at what David said in that same 1st verse, "why are You so far from helping me." He felt abandoned by God in His situation he was going through, and in the 2nd verse he felt as though God was not hearing his prayers.
It is a picture of the crucifixion which I do not deny, but it shows the sympathy side of it as well that I pointed out. As again in verses 19-21 He was again is pleading for help, deliverance, and to be saved.
The sympathy aspect does not take away from the crucifixion for our sins aspect, as it just shows an all around loving Lord and Savior. His love is without measure and limitations as He can understand all that we go through, as He came and faced all those same temptations Himself without giving in and sinning.

 

[forsha]

what sounds insane is Jesus saying it is finished, when it was not yet complete more work needed to be done.

but to each his own.

The reason that Jesus came to this earth is explained in John 6:38-39. When he said it is finished, he was saying that he had finished the reason for coming to earth which was to redeem back those that God gave him. Jesus said that there will be no more sacrifice for sin. All of God's sheep (elect) was secured for eternal life by the action of Jesus on the cross and there will not be even one goat saved eternally. That's why "it is finished".

 

[forsha]

John 6 is simple whoever believes in Jesus will never perish, never die, never hunger and thirst, live forever, and be risen.

But you must seek the food which endures forever, and not the food which perishes. (have faith in Christ)

as for romans 9. Look at the OT quote to get context. It does not say what you think it means.

I can not explain the old testament quote, unless you give me the quote.

 

[forsha]

lol, that is where you are confused.

God did not predetermine based on good works. if that was so, the law could save us, and our good deeds would save us and we could take credit.

God predetermined based on his sons work. and who would freely recieve his work (which takes complete humility, which is not something to boast of, but in our world. is something to be ashamed of)

when I chose to trust God. I am not doing a work. or doing something to save myself. I am admitting I can not save myself. and need his salvation. Thus God gets all the credit.

The only person that has the ability to receive Jesus's work on the cross are those that are already born of the Spirit according to 1 Cor 2:14. Jesus's sacrifice on the cross was not for man's acceptance, but for God's acceptance in which he was well pleased. When you choose to trust God, you are, by the act of choosing performing a work, plus you have to be already born of the Spirit before you have the ability to choose anything that is of a spiritual nature.

 

[forsha]

I do give him credit.

He saved me, I did not save myself.

Anyone who gets saved is based on his work alone. those who trust self and their own works, or do not trust God at all (think they do not need saved) are lost forever.

God still gets the credit of being a loving God, because he died for them also. They rejected him, he did not reject them.

God is not a god in your belief system, he is a respecter of persons. and condemns people to hell without even giving them a chance to trust in him (he did not allow them to even if they wanted to)

The natural man, before he is born again by the grace of God, will not, and indeed can not trust in God according to 1 Cor 2:14. God will not give man eternal life by depending upon himself in it being man's choice. Dan 4:35 - God has his way with the army of heaven and among the inhabitants of the earth, and none can stay his hand. If God wants to save you eternally, he will, even if you drag your hills in the dirt. The freedom God gives to man is to make choices about his life here on earth, but not on choosing to be eternally saved, that's by the grace of God only.

 

[forsha]

Then don't get baptized, don't repent of your sins, don't confess the Lord before others, and don't forgive others and see where it gets you. That is all I have to say because if you truly obeyed the two greatest commands given by God through the Lord then you would obey those as well, but if you deny those it shows your faith is not in Christ. And if you teach others to deny those as well then you are really diving into a false gospel message. Keep teaching your limitations gospel, as I will stick to the what the bible says about believers.........


Mark 9:23
Jesus said unto him, If thou canst believe, all things are possible to him that believeth.

Philippians 4:13
I can do all things through Christ which strengthens me.

1 John 4:8
The one who does not love does not know God, for God is love.

The act of believing is not what saves you eternally, that's only by God's grace when we were dead in sins (Eph 2:1.) Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5:22, and a person does not have faith without first being born of the Spirit.

 

[kennethcadwell]

The act of believing is not what saves you eternally, that's only by God's grace when we were dead in sins (Eph 2:1.) Faith is a fruit of the Spirit, Gal 5:22, and a person does not have faith without first being born of the Spirit.

What ???
If faith/belief in the Lord is not what saves then you are making all mankind saved. For many are called, but few are chosen. The reason only few are chosen is only a few of those who are called will actually take and live that calling out in their lives to accept Jesus as their Lord and Savior and follow His teachings. The gospel message is salvation through Jesus Christ, and by no other way does one get salvation. You can not get salvation if you have no belief in Jesus as your Lord and Savior and your belief shows true by it being an active faith doing as He taught/commanded.
If you say a person has salvation without repenting of their sins, then you are mistaken as the Lord said if you do not repent you will perish......

 

[forsha]

Ok, but have you repented of your sins and continue to confess any sins that you do now days ???

Christ died to erase all of the sins of God's elect, past, present, and future. All, means all sins. Our sins can separate us from our fellowship with God while we live here on earth, and when he accepts our repentance, we are in fellowship with him again. Sin only causes us to lose our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation. We should do good works to keep our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.

 

[michael56]

Christ died to erase all of the sins of God's elect, past, present, and future. All, means all sins. Our sins can separate us from our fellowship with God while we live here on earth, and when he accepts our repentance, we are in fellowship with him again. Sin only causes us to lose our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation. We should do good works to keep our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.

Kenneth believes Jesus only died at Calvary for the sin you commited before you got saved. To be fair to him, that is the majority view of those who go to church-unfortunately

 

[forsha]

Because some teach a one time repentance, and then say they don't have to do nothing from there on out and all there sins are forgiven regardless of what they do. However the bible shows future sins are only forgiven after they have been confessed of, and not before from a one time repentance years ago.....

those that God gave to Christ sins are paid for, as far as eternal life is concerned, but when we sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Kenneth believes Jesus only died at Calvary for the sin you commited before you got saved. To be fair to him, that is the majority view of those who go to church-unfortunately

those that God gave to Christ sins are paid for, as far as eternal life is concerned, but when we sin, we separate ourselves from our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.

Christ died to erase all of the sins of God's elect, past, present, and future. All, means all sins. Our sins can separate us from our fellowship with God while we live here on earth, and when he accepts our repentance, we are in fellowship with him again. Sin only causes us to lose our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation. We should do good works to keep our fellowship with God, not our eternal salvation.

Well if you two believe future sins are automatically forgiven at a one time repentance years ago then you deny clear scriptures in the bible from Peter, Paul, John, and James that show future sins are not and still have to be confessed to receive that remission.
I seen you fosha telling another that scriptures in the bible can not contradict, well if you have future sins already forgiven as in received remission then you have 1 John contradicting this. For John is the one that said if we do sin again we have to confess them to receive that remission, and be cleansed of all unrighteousness. Then Peter and Paul both say only past sins have been forgiven (2 Peter 1:9, Romans 3:25), and James says if a person falls away from the truth back to sins if they are brought back to the Lord their soul will be saved (James 5:19-20). How can a person fall away to sin and not be in a saved state if future sins are already forgiven ??? They can't according to you two, but the bible says they can.....