"It is finished." What is the "it?"

[dcontroversal]

Dunno yet if you're changing your story. But you are still saying that Jesus was literally forsaken by the Father. And that He died spiritually, as did Adam. Have you thought closer what that would bring you by way of consequence?

Forsaken-->Psalm 22-->to loosen, to relinquish, forsake, leave destitute, refuse
Forsaken-->Matthew 27, Mark 15-->to leave behind, to leave, to forsake

 

[tribesman]

And he (Christ the Messiah) was doing spiritual work (witnessing in Hades) while his fleshly body lay in the tomb, before conquering death and exiting the tomb.

The greek word would rather say proclaiming than witnessing. Do you believe that Jesus suffered in hell for any moment?

 

[skylove7]

Please in your heart forgive me for interuptions....just poppin in to say..." Morning DC!"

 

[1joseph]

Webster's 1913 Dictionary
For`sake´
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]v. t.[/TD]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]To quit or leave entirely; to desert; to abandon; to depart or withdraw from; to leave; as, false friends and flatterers forsake us in adversity.[imp. Forsook ; p. p. Forsaken ; p. pr. & vb. n. Forsaking.]
If his children forsake my law, and walk not in my judgments.- Ps. lxxxix. 30.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[TR]
[TD][/TD]
[TD]2.[/TD]
[TD]To renounce; to reject; to refuse.If you forsake the offer of their love.- Shak.
[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]
WordNet Dictionary
[TABLE]
[TR]
[TD]Verb[/TD]
[TD]1.[/TD]
[TD]forsake - leave someone who needs or counts on you; leave in the lurch; "The mother deserted her children"Synonyms: desert, desolate, abandon[/TD]
[/TR]
[/TABLE]

 

[1joseph]

The greek word would rather say proclaiming than witnessing. Do you believe that Jesus suffered in hell for any moment?

No. Jesus did not go to Hades as a sinner but in authority.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

You are saying: ..How can I be made alive, while I am DEAAD in my tresspasses and sin, if Jesus did not die the death I was suffering (spiritual). I see no scripture saying that Jesus died such a death, as Adam did. This I do since that would collide with other scriptures pertaining to Jesus's life and person. The notion that Jesus died spiritually is to take things too far. In this case it's obviously based on selective literalist reading of the text. Jesus experienced a state of hopelessness and having been forsaken, at the cross, for a while, however God was with Him all along.

No literal forsaking there.

so Jesus lied?

How do you think Jesus reconciled ourselves to him?

He who knew no sin became sin for us.

How did Jesus redeem us? By doing nothing? or did he pay the debt we owe God?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Was He born again at that moment? Yes or no?

You tell me. Was God still forsaking him? or was he still being forsaken?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

No. Jesus did not go to Hades as a sinner but in authority.

yes, because the penalty of sin was already paid.

As Jesus said, IT IS FINISHED. "paid in full"

there was no more work to do.

 

[1joseph]

The Word (Jesus) was with God from the beginning (John 1:1.) In that state, being with God, the Word could not take on sin, for where there is light there is no darkness. The Word had to become flesh (John 1:14) to take on sin. God forsook the Word at the moment it took on the sins of mankind. This one and only time of separation between God and the Word was short lived. The Word was restored with God (his and our Father) before his physical death on the cross, as is understood, by him saying, "It is finished."

 

[tribesman]

You tell me. Was God still forsaking him? or was he still being forsaken?

I didn't ask you that question to answer it for you. A yes or no would do.

 

[forsha]

already did once, You want me to do it again?

Yes, I would appreciate it. My age seems to make me forget things.

 

[tribesman]

so Jesus lied?

How do you think Jesus reconciled ourselves to him?

He who knew no sin became sin for us.

How did Jesus redeem us? By doing nothing? or did he pay the debt we owe God?

Sighs. Needless to say Jesus never lied. It's about how to interpret the words at the cross, having them in harmony with all else written about Christ. Again, you're taking things way too far. That's why you go around in circles, avoiding the important questions.

 

[michael56]

my take is simply this.

God can not relate or look on sin. When my sin was placed on Jesus body, God had to turn his back on him, That is spiritual death (separation)

Not rocket science. Not adding to the word. Just plain truth.

I have heard this stated before and agree fully with it. The Holy Spirit who had been on Christ in bodily form since his Baptism left Christ in this way just before his death. Hence the words:

''My God my God why hast thou forsaken me.'' But it was only for the briefest of time. For as Peter tells us:

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]After being made alive,[SUP][d][/SUP] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits 1Peter3:19

 

[1joseph]

tribesman,

Can anyone state "Christ was born again?" It is not stated that way in the Word so I don't think anyone would phrase it that way due to the uniqueness of this particular event, being that it (the Word) was an entity that had been with God from the beginning and that it (the Word in flesh) did not sin but willingly took on sin.

 

[kennethcadwell]

a lie? I asked you weeks ago if you were worthy, you stated you were. because you walk in the spirit. All you buddy.

Your gospel is a gospel of I do this, I do that.

Not Christ did that, and because of that I am saved

Wrong as I always state it is the Holy Spirit doing it through me, so again you are blaming me for something I did not say.
Or do you constantly think that the Holy Spirit working through a person will not show change in their outer actions, speech, and even works. Christ gets all the credit because if it was not for His Holy Spirit I would not be able to walk the way I do. You on the other seem to me in your responses that even though the Holy Spirit is working in a person you do not act as if it changes a person to be obedient in Christ.
For that is all I keep saying and you keep trying to reverse it and constantly spewing false accusations that I take all the credit when I don't. How many times do I have to say the Holy Spirit as worked in me to be able to do those things ?

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I didn't ask you that question to answer it for you. A yes or no would do.

and i answered the question, i am not gonna fall fir a trap, just answer scripturally

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Sighs. Needless to say Jesus never lied. It's about how to interpret the words at the cross, having them in harmony with all else written about Christ. Again, you're taking things way too far. That's why you go around in circles, avoiding the important questions.

what important question?

Jesus did in my place. He said it was finished, it was, end of story.

Jesus cried out that God forsook him, end of story.

any other thiings is adding to the word.

 

[eternally-gratefull]

I have heard this stated before and agree fully with it. The Holy Spirit who had been on Christ in bodily form since his Baptism left Christ in this way just before his death. Hence the words:

''My God my God why hast thou forsaken me.'' But it was only for the briefest of time. For as Peter tells us:

He was put to death in the body but made alive in the Spirit. [SUP]19 [/SUP]After being made alive,[SUP][d][/SUP] he went and made proclamation to the imprisoned spirits 1Peter3:19

thank you, you just biblically answered his other question.

 

[kennethcadwell]

Sighs. Needless to say Jesus never lied. It's about how to interpret the words at the cross, having them in harmony with all else written about Christ. Again, you're taking things way too far. That's why you go around in circles, avoiding the important questions.

Yes the reason why Jesus said, "My God, My God why have you forsaken ME," was not because He was spiritually dead or the Holy Spirit left Him.
The reason He said that was to show His sympathy for what we go through and how some when they have hit rock bottom in life think that God has left them to suffer instead of protecting them. This is mentioned in Hebrews 4:15.....

 

[eternally-gratefull]

Wrong as I always state it is the Holy Spirit doing it through me, so again you are blaming me for something I did not say.

no, I did not lie. because you said you must be following the spirit. thus you state as long as you do that you are worthy.

don;t deny it, it is still you doing something.

Or do you constantly think that the Holy Spirit working through a person will not show change in their outer actions, speech, and even works. Christ gets all the credit because if it was not for His Holy Spirit I would not be able to walk the way I do. You on the other seem to me in your responses that even though the Holy Spirit is working in a person you do not act as if it changes a person to be obedient in Christ.
For that is all I keep saying and you keep trying to reverse it and constantly spewing false accusations that I take all the credit when I don't. How many times do I have to say the Holy Spirit as worked in me to be able to do those things ?

if one is born of God the spirit will change them. thats the part you can not comrehend.

You claim one can be saved, and God will not change them, causing them to fall away.

not in the word. God does not fail.