I am a Seventh Day Adventist, Ask Me.
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M
By the way, there is never any fault with God. He is as a matter of fact in complete control of what humanity will or will not understand in relation to biblical prophecy and a great many other things. If you think He is not in control of the same, you are simply mistaken. He knows the beginning from the end and could reveal all of it to whomever He wished whenever He wished, but He doesn't does He?
M
We felt an unusual spirit of prayer. And as we prayed the Holy Ghost fell upon us. We were very happy. Soon I was lost to earthly things and was wrapped in a vision of God's glory. I saw an angel flying swiftly to me. He quickly carried me from the earth to the Holy City. In the city I saw a temple,which I entered. EGW
Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
who do we believe false prophet ellen g white ...or the Word of God and the Apostle of the Lord...John?
Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
who do we believe false prophet ellen g white ...or the Word of God and the Apostle of the Lord...John?
For the record..on the weekends I'm not on the worship team I typically go to the Saturday night service. Which reminds me....riddled me this all you sabbath keepers....is the pastor not working on the sabbath? Hmmmm....seems the pastor is taking one for the team I guess.
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
so, looks like...
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Why are you disobedient to the faith?
You preach that keeping the 10 commandments is evidence of righteousness yet your yourself fail to keep the law.
The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
You preach that keeping the 10 commandments is evidence of righteousness yet your yourself fail to keep the law.
The law is not of faith, Gal 3:12.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Well since this seems to have degenerated into an argument about whether or not to keep the Sabbath...
Exo 20:13 Thou shalt not kill.
Or the eighth Commandment...
Exo 20:15 Thou shalt not steal.
is no longer in force and it is OK to kill or steal? Ever see that? It is always the Sabbath that is attacked, not the other nine.
S
Which Jesus Christ Himself says is acceptable...
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
so, looks like...
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
so, looks like...
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Which Jesus Christ Himself says is acceptable...
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
so, looks like...
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
Mat 12:5 Or have ye not read in the law, how that on the sabbath days the priests in the temple profane the sabbath, and are blameless?
so, looks like...
Mat 22:29 Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.
The example is that a pastor conducting services or a Bible study on the Sabbath, although that is his job, is perfectly acceptable today.
Ro 10:3 For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The word for "end" here is...
G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?
Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...
New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes
Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4
I am not sure what Grandpa thinks so this is not directed at him.
But what he said brought up a question.
People say that obedience is a Gift of God which I whole heartedly agree with.
But it seems the gift most people mean is broken or useless because it does not actually end in obedience according to them. thus an empty meaningless gift that sounds nice but does little to nothing or incomplete at best.
People say that love fulfils the law. Yet the love they claim to have in Jesus does far from fulfilling the law, so far in fact that those who supposedly have this love fight against the law.
lets look at the inconsistency for a moment:
If I love God, I will put Him First, no Gods before Him.
If I love God, I will not worship Idols.
If I love God, I will not take His name in vain.
If I love God, I will not keep His Sabbath but whatever Day suits me.
If I love my neighbour, I will honour my mother and Father.
If I love my neighbour, I will will not kill
If I love my neighbour, I will not commit adultery.
If I love my neighbour, I will not steal.
If I love my neighbour, I will not bear false witness against them.
If I love my neighbour, I will not covet.
Does anyone see the inconsistency here?
I am being generous though because the reality is most thing the Gift of Love is insufficient and that His Grace lacks the power to truly make a new creature. Apparently from what I hear from those who down the law of God, His grace makes not a new creature but more of a hybrid creature, part transformed and part evil.
So Gods grace changes nothing apparently, I was a sinner before Jesus and apparently I will remain one after Jesus. oh yer but I forgot, Because of Jesus my sin can not be charged to me so even though I sin I by title am not a sinner.
SO the Gospel is not a reality of good news but rather a title that makes me feel better about my sinful condition.
So now when we preach the good news of Jesus we can confidently tell people that they will change a little bit but the power of the cross is insufficient to change you into a new creature. Even though it says the old man is dead, that is just a title the reality is your old man is alive and well and still wins many of your battles against sin.
I am sorry, not trying to be rude or anything, but this is the Gospel I see many living and teaching here.
I believe that Gods Grace is much stronger than that. I know that Gods sacrifice in Christ affords me more than a title but a reality in my life now. Sin has no power over those who claim his promises by Faith. and it is the fruit of that faith that people can see and want.
I know this because I spent my life in this cheap weak grace that people on here talk about, I used to teach it. Then as I studied more I saw that we were still meant to keep Gods commandments. So I tried as hard as I could to please God and I kept failing, no matter what I did or how hard I tried I kept falling short by miles and miles.
Then God taught me that the Just shall live by faith, so i searched the word for His promises and found that all I needed to succeed was in Jesus and His promises. I began to claim those promises and my faith grew as I studied the word. I began to find that Jesus really does change our hearts if we claim and believe. I began to have victory ad overcome in areas I failed in the past. The commandments became a wonderful promise of God to conform me to His image.
The promise is not just a title, no it is a reality and I testify to it in Jesus name. He is able to change us 100%. praise His name.
But what he said brought up a question.
People say that obedience is a Gift of God which I whole heartedly agree with.
But it seems the gift most people mean is broken or useless because it does not actually end in obedience according to them. thus an empty meaningless gift that sounds nice but does little to nothing or incomplete at best.
People say that love fulfils the law. Yet the love they claim to have in Jesus does far from fulfilling the law, so far in fact that those who supposedly have this love fight against the law.
lets look at the inconsistency for a moment:
If I love God, I will put Him First, no Gods before Him.
If I love God, I will not worship Idols.
If I love God, I will not take His name in vain.
If I love God, I will not keep His Sabbath but whatever Day suits me.
If I love my neighbour, I will honour my mother and Father.
If I love my neighbour, I will will not kill
If I love my neighbour, I will not commit adultery.
If I love my neighbour, I will not steal.
If I love my neighbour, I will not bear false witness against them.
If I love my neighbour, I will not covet.
Does anyone see the inconsistency here?
I am being generous though because the reality is most thing the Gift of Love is insufficient and that His Grace lacks the power to truly make a new creature. Apparently from what I hear from those who down the law of God, His grace makes not a new creature but more of a hybrid creature, part transformed and part evil.
So Gods grace changes nothing apparently, I was a sinner before Jesus and apparently I will remain one after Jesus. oh yer but I forgot, Because of Jesus my sin can not be charged to me so even though I sin I by title am not a sinner.
SO the Gospel is not a reality of good news but rather a title that makes me feel better about my sinful condition.
So now when we preach the good news of Jesus we can confidently tell people that they will change a little bit but the power of the cross is insufficient to change you into a new creature. Even though it says the old man is dead, that is just a title the reality is your old man is alive and well and still wins many of your battles against sin.
I am sorry, not trying to be rude or anything, but this is the Gospel I see many living and teaching here.
I believe that Gods Grace is much stronger than that. I know that Gods sacrifice in Christ affords me more than a title but a reality in my life now. Sin has no power over those who claim his promises by Faith. and it is the fruit of that faith that people can see and want.
I know this because I spent my life in this cheap weak grace that people on here talk about, I used to teach it. Then as I studied more I saw that we were still meant to keep Gods commandments. So I tried as hard as I could to please God and I kept failing, no matter what I did or how hard I tried I kept falling short by miles and miles.
Then God taught me that the Just shall live by faith, so i searched the word for His promises and found that all I needed to succeed was in Jesus and His promises. I began to claim those promises and my faith grew as I studied the word. I began to find that Jesus really does change our hearts if we claim and believe. I began to have victory ad overcome in areas I failed in the past. The commandments became a wonderful promise of God to conform me to His image.
The promise is not just a title, no it is a reality and I testify to it in Jesus name. He is able to change us 100%. praise His name.
M
Why don't you quite misquoting scripture?
Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The word for "end" here is...
G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?
Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...
New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes
Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4
Romans 10:4 says no such thing. Here is what it says...
Rom 10:4 For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
The word for "end" here is...
G5056
τέλος
telos
tel'-os
From a primary word τέλλω tellō (to set out for a definite point or goal); properly the point aimed at as a limit, that is, (by implication) the conclusion of an act or state (termination [literally, figuratively or indefinitely], result [immediate, ultimate or prophetic], purpose); specifically an impost or levy (as paid): - + continual, custom, end (-ing), finally, uttermost. Compare G5411.
It means outcome or point aimed at. This word, G5056 τέλος, is used other places in the N.T., let's look at them...
1Pe 1:9 Receiving the end of your faith, even the salvation of your souls.
Yep, G5056 τέλος is the word used here for end. So, is your faith obliterated? Done away with? Brought to an end? or is it brought to an outcome of salvation?
Jas 5:11 Behold, we count them happy which endure. Ye have heard of the patience of Job, and have seen the end of the Lord; that the Lord is very pitiful, and of tender mercy.
Same word, G5056 τέλος, for end here. Is this the obliteration of the Lord? The doing away with Him? The use of the word is determined by context. Let's see how a few other translations render it...
New International Version:
Christ is the culmination of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.
International Standard Version:
For the Messiah is the culmination of the Law as far as righteousness is concerned for everyone who believes
Aramaic Bible in Plain English:
For The Messiah is the consummation of The Written Law for righteousness to everyone who believes.
The sense of it is the end result, not the obliteration.
Rom 2:13 (for not the hearers of the law are just in the sight of God, but the doers of the law will be justified;
I wish I had a nickel for every time someone has misused Rom 10:4
Ro 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7 ¶ What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
M
We felt an unusual spirit of prayer. And as we prayed the Holy Ghost fell upon us. We were very happy. Soon I was lost to earthly things and was wrapped in a vision of God's glory. I saw an angel flying swiftly to me. He quickly carried me from the earth to the Holy City. In the city I saw a temple,which I entered. EGW
Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
who do we believe false prophet ellen g white ...or the Word of God and the Apostle of the Lord...John?
Re 21:22 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it.
who do we believe false prophet ellen g white ...or the Word of God and the Apostle of the Lord...John?
S
Mitspa,
I am just wondering here, have you read any of her books? The net is full of her "visions and dreams" and what didnt come true ect, and as an SDA myself, I get what you are saying. However, her visions are a very small part of what she wrote on. I personally cant defend her visions, nor will I try. But her other writings, and books I can to a degree. I take her writings more as a Commentary and her thoughts and ideas of Biblical topics. In that light she has some real good stuff to say. When I read them,I am pointed back to the Bible, and with the exception of the visions, I have yet to find issue with the Bibles teachings.
On the note of incorrect information you feel she has, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Bible record one or a few Prophets and or men/woman of God, that didnt do quite what God wanted? Are there not a few recordings of Prophets getting it wrong (I think at least one did it on purpose even)? Granted they were called out in the Bible, but they were still in the end men / women of God. At the end of the day you will have your own views, and I can not will not try to convict / convince you one way or the other, that is the job of the Holy Spirit. I can only plant a seed, and the seed I would offer you, if you have not already, is to read some of her other stuff.
I am just wondering here, have you read any of her books? The net is full of her "visions and dreams" and what didnt come true ect, and as an SDA myself, I get what you are saying. However, her visions are a very small part of what she wrote on. I personally cant defend her visions, nor will I try. But her other writings, and books I can to a degree. I take her writings more as a Commentary and her thoughts and ideas of Biblical topics. In that light she has some real good stuff to say. When I read them,I am pointed back to the Bible, and with the exception of the visions, I have yet to find issue with the Bibles teachings.
On the note of incorrect information you feel she has, correct me if I am wrong, but doesn't the Bible record one or a few Prophets and or men/woman of God, that didnt do quite what God wanted? Are there not a few recordings of Prophets getting it wrong (I think at least one did it on purpose even)? Granted they were called out in the Bible, but they were still in the end men / women of God. At the end of the day you will have your own views, and I can not will not try to convict / convince you one way or the other, that is the job of the Holy Spirit. I can only plant a seed, and the seed I would offer you, if you have not already, is to read some of her other stuff.
H
Well, thank you for judging me...
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
Rom 14:4 Who art thou that judgest another man's servant? to his own master he standeth or falleth. Yea, he shall be holden up: for God is able to make him stand.
but you have consistently preached works of the law for righteousness, in spite of the fact that the law is not of faith, Gal 3:12. You preach judgement/condemnation under the law, in spite of the fact that you even fail to keep the law yourself.
Legalists here all preach a lukewarm mix of works of the law, with grace. God rejects this.
Rom 11:6
And if by grace, then it is no longer of works; otherwise grace is no longer grace. But if it is of works, it is no longer grace; otherwise work is no longer work.
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S
Haz,
We do not preach that one is saved by works. We say because you are saved, you will do the works. Because you are save you will keep the commandments. Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. It is not a matter of keep them do them to be saved, or righteous. It is a matter of Loving God, and being obedient. It is also written:
Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
.
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
My point being, we have to take all scripture, on a topic and build doctrine, not just a few that agree with what we want or think.
We do not preach that one is saved by works. We say because you are saved, you will do the works. Because you are save you will keep the commandments. Joh_14:15 If ye love me, keep my commandments. It is not a matter of keep them do them to be saved, or righteous. It is a matter of Loving God, and being obedient. It is also written:
Tit_3:8 This is a faithful saying, and these things I will that thou affirm constantly, that they which have believed in God might be careful to maintain good works. These things are good and profitable unto men.
2Ti_3:17 That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works
.
Jas_2:22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect?
Jas_2:20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
Jas_2:24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.
Jas_2:26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also
My point being, we have to take all scripture, on a topic and build doctrine, not just a few that agree with what we want or think.
P
I, like you, observe the 7th day. However, I do not belong to the 7th day adventist church, since it has become greatly corrupted. There are many things that your religion is doing wrong, unfortunately. For example, the General Conference has united with the Pope on many levels. This is a fact, not a conjecture. They don't preach openly who the beast is, the mark of the beast, nor its image. They rather be friends with the world (false religions) than expose them for what they are.
Also, they keep collecting tithes, the 10% of its members' salaries. This custom doesn't apply today. Tithes were given to the levites annually since they didn't inherit any land. There are no more levites today since their priesthood ended with the death of Jesus. But today, SDA have created their own version of the tithing system: they collect tithes weekly, they use it for the construction of buildings, they invest in the stock exchange, etc.. This is not what tithing was used for. Sadly, the 7th day adventist church is running like a business, like many other churches and doesn't care about what God has to say.
They have formed part of Babylon, since they have become friends with the Great Babylon (Roman Catholic church). I advise that you flee from her.
With love in Jesus Christ.
Also, they keep collecting tithes, the 10% of its members' salaries. This custom doesn't apply today. Tithes were given to the levites annually since they didn't inherit any land. There are no more levites today since their priesthood ended with the death of Jesus. But today, SDA have created their own version of the tithing system: they collect tithes weekly, they use it for the construction of buildings, they invest in the stock exchange, etc.. This is not what tithing was used for. Sadly, the 7th day adventist church is running like a business, like many other churches and doesn't care about what God has to say.
They have formed part of Babylon, since they have become friends with the Great Babylon (Roman Catholic church). I advise that you flee from her.
With love in Jesus Christ.